Advice on girl I'm seeing

[rainbowsandroses]

17 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Also  "What women "say" they want and what actually attracts them and keeps them attracted are often times two entirely different things", is pickup artist rubbish assuming women are brainless bimbo's who don't know what they want.

Actually I didn't read this in any PUA forum, as I said, I've witnessed it in real life and experienced myself when younger. 

It does denote confusion and uncertainty especially during early stages about what a woman wants, but it's hardly "brainless bimbo" behavior.

Again, she willingly chose to remain in a toxic relationship with a "jerk" for five years.  To ignore that (her relationship history) is just flat out stupid, imo. 

At least consider it.  

JMO

 

[boltnrun]

48 minutes ago, JamesTaylor7892 said:

No, absolutely not. Bombardment is definitely not what I've been doing, even from day one. In fairness I've got a full time job, go to the gym 3-4 times a week, have two dogs and my daughter who recently has been living with me 90% of the time. So frankly I have a lot on myself, just like her. I don't feel I've given her the impression I'm too available either but I guess I'm a bit old fashioned in that when I like someone I like to hear from them at least once a day. She said she doesn't mind this and interestingly since she's been away and I've given her some space she's been sending me photos throughout the day and giving me updates without me asking. 

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't get the impression you were "bombarding her with texts" either.

It seems to me like you two are doing pretty well. All you can do is see how things go when she returns and if she suggests getting together. 

[rainbowsandroses]

12 minutes ago, JamesTaylor7892 said:

No, absolutely not. Bombardment is definitely not what I've been doing, even from day one. In fairness I've got a full time job, go to the gym 3-4 times a week, have two dogs and my daughter who recently has been living with me 90% of the time. So frankly I have a lot on myself, just like her. I don't feel I've given her the impression I'm too available either but I guess I'm a bit old fashioned in that when I like someone I like to hear from them at least once a day. She said she doesn't mind this and interestingly since she's been away and I've given her some space she's been sending me photos throughout the day and giving me updates without me asking. 

Bombarding was hyperbole on my part, I only meant texting as often as you were, which sounded like a lot after only 2-3 weeks and imo added to the overall intensity she was/is feeling and asked that it slow down. 

In any event, the above sounds very positive so see what happens when she returns and good luck, keep us posted!  

[catfeeder]

7 minutes ago, JamesTaylor7892 said:

No, absolutely not. Bombardment is definitely not what I've been doing, even from day one. In fairness I've got a full time job, go to the gym 3-4 times a week, have two dogs and my daughter who recently has been living with me 90% of the time. So frankly I have a lot on myself, just like her. I don't feel I've given her the impression I'm too available either but I guess I'm a bit old fashioned in that when I like someone I like to hear from them at least once a day. She said she doesn't mind this and interestingly since she's been away and I've given her some space she's been sending me photos throughout the day and giving me updates without me asking. 

Great! So as a go forward, don't jump to self talk like 'mercurial," when just 'busy' is more accurate. She's into you enough to think of you and send you some updates, and this liberates you from any need to take the temperature of the relationship all the time. Relax into some mystery here and there, and enjOy!

[Wiseman2]

29 minutes ago, JamesTaylor7892 said:

 I guess I'm a bit old fashioned in that when I like someone I like to hear from them at least once a day. She said she doesn't mind this and interestingly since she's been away and I've given her some space she's been sending me photos throughout the day and giving me updates without me asking. 

Agree you're certainly not "bombarding her, especially since she says she likes the texts and is replying. Listen to your own intuition. 

 

[kim42]

16 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree you're certainly not "bombarding her, especially since she says she likes the texts and is replying. Listen to your own intuition. 

 

I agree with this. OP, listen to your intuition and not to some 'rules' that dictate how many messages you should send, or how long you should wait to text her.

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, JamesTaylor7892 said:

She said she doesn't mind this and interestingly since she's been away and I've given her some space she's been sending me photos throughout the day and giving me updates without me asking. 

Well there ya go!  You stepped back and gave her some space and SHE came forward!!

What does this tell you?  Again pay attention to stuff like this, it's important and it's smart.  Good job. 

That's the dance!  NOT a game. There's a difference and believe it or not, can be fun!  

Quote from Judith Sills, Ph.D. author of "A Fine Romance" one of the best books written about romance and the stages of dating and developing a relationship.

 

[Batya33]

I understand wanting to be in touch daily when you're an established couple -that "old fashioned" approach.  But you're not a couple in that sense -at all.  Sounds a bit too insta relationship to me and I'm glad you're dialing it back.

[Sindy_0311]

15 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I understand wanting to be in touch daily when you're an established couple -that "old fashioned" approach.  But you're not a couple in that sense -at all.  Sounds a bit too insta relationship to me and I'm glad you're dialing it back.

I think this is what dating looks like in 2024. If you dont reach out daily or every two days (at least) you are considered as an exception or not that interested. JMO 

[LootieTootie]

Sounds like she is enjoying her vacation and its a good sign she has sent you texts without you initiating. Every busy mom/dad needs a holiday... or two... or three 🙂

Since you are an old-fashion guy, I would just ignore "rules" "the dance" or any "help books" by supposed dating gurus. When you meet someone and there is a deep attraction and deep connection, the last thing you need to worry is if saying good morning every day is too much.

If I really like someone, I would be happy to see their text every morning and would text them right away with a big smile. That's just me tho... I guess not every women want to do that because it might appear desperate. Glad my husband wasn't into rules and "the dance" too and maybe thats why we clicked so well.

[TeeDee]

4 hours ago, JamesTaylor7892 said:

 I want her to enjoy her holiday but on a couple of occasions she has reached out to me which I like. I guess we'll have to see how things pan out when she's back in the country but the last thing I want is to pressure her, so I'm just going to wait for her to suggest when she next wants to meet.

If she's out of the country you don't have to do the constant good morning / good night texts.  She's the one who is away so let her set the pace.  

3 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I didn't get the impression he's "bombarding" her with texts. I wouldn't consider one good morning and one goodnight text per day to be a bombardment

I would.  They haven't been dating a month.  There are people who have been in my life for 40 years that I don't talk to twice a day.  

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, LootieTootie said:

Glad my husband wasn't into rules and "the dance" too and maybe thats why we clicked so well.

It's not about "rules" or "the dance."  It's human nature for many people. 

Someone you just met and known for a mere 2-3 weeks is texting every day, morning and night, with the standard "good morning" and "good night" texts, I can say from personal experience I find that to be somewhat contrived and don't trust it, it's too much, too soon.  For me, obviously we are all different.

And what's she gonna say when he asks, that she hates it?  That can be difficult to admit as we don't want to come across as hurtful and unappreciative.

But he did sense a pull back of sorts so he did as well and she came forward.  So it's all good. 

Honestly I don't understand this forum sometimes.  We have one poster who constantly posts against "text tethering" that "text tethering" is not a relationship, and to text to make plans and date in person.

Now that same poster is advising the OP to do the opposite - contine texting same as always even after she requested a slow down.

I dont know anymore. 

Anyway, I'm really happy you found your "person" @LootieTootie, that you vibed well from the beginning and still do! 

That is so awesome!  Im really happy for you. 💛

 

[LootieTootie]

Thank you Rainbow 🙂  When you meet someone special, your whole body, mind and heart just know.

Now... I think all these rules and dances are just silly games! Like "I don't have all day to read our fortune as well as your mind, mister/missy!"  Thats exactly how I felt when I was dating and I played them too so I am not just a victim, I was a perpetrator too. I've been married to my husband for almost 8 years and I can tell you all, wow what a relief I don't have to go thru this vicious cycle any more LOL. Ok enough about me.

But this is why I don't like the rules and dance stuff....  It plays into people's fricken emotions/insecurities. I think it stifles a relationship from organically developing. I believe the OP said that he would like the relationship to organically develop and feel like equal footing where he isn't the one doing all the initiation and looking like he is the one coming on too strong - esp. after she gave him some insight to her insecurities and how she's been hurt. Thats why I think he shouldn't do any of those "rules" - he should be himself - and if being himself means stepping back a little, awesome! Maybe a little bit more texting - awesome! But it looks like he got a good head on his shoulders and decided to give her some space.

Before we get to the good night and good morning texts, I just want to say he did mention somewhere that the lady he is seeing actually said she liked them. &  you said "what's she gonna say when he asks, that she hates it?  That can be difficult to admit as we don't want to come across as hurtful and unappreciative." 

I think its hard to say what anyone would say when we don't know them. But I say please take people at their word! So if someone tells you they like something, go with it. Don't doubt them - to doubt then is to disrespect their word - disrespect them. So I can see why OP is doing the texting after he provided context.

But you're right. Not all women would like the texting every day, morning and night, with the standard "good morning" and "good night" texts. But I know if I really like a guy, I love it. Probably why my husband still do it since we are on different sleep work schedule.

[yogacat]

Normally I would agree with the keep doing exactly what you've been doing but this woman has stated that a main point of concern for her is her trust levels so because of that...this is where you backtrack the process just a little bit.

Doesn't mean purposely not initiating text messages like you normally would or anything of that nature... that would be weird especially when things were flowing good already...This is where you need to be you but I think you're going to be very tempted to "be more up on this stuff because you're worried about getting a good pace" here.

Remember she did mention about needing you to follow at a normal pace.

So, this is her talking and saying to you 'hey, I like you and enjoy spending time with you but basically slow your roll a little so I can be more comfortable getting to know you and and feel our way to the next phase.'

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, JamesTaylor7892 said:

 since she's been away and I've given her some space she's been sending me photos throughout the day and giving me updates without me asking. 

That's because she's consistent mature and wants to stay in touch, not because you had to play games to "build attraction".

If she didn't want to text you, she wouldn't, so the game theory is nonsense. Try to relax and have confidence in yourself. Anyone you have to play games with to get their attention is not worth it. 

She is tending to the budding relationship because she knows from experience that jerks play ghosting games and she hated that.  

When she returns you can figure out a mutually convenient time to get together. Her spa weekend was not a result of anything you did since you're only dating a matter of days and she had a full life and friends etc before you met. 

[rainbowsandroses]

59 minutes ago, LootieTootie said:

I think its hard to say what anyone would say when we don't know them. But I say please take people at their word!

Bolded, I agree that's very very true.  As far as taking someone at their word, I've been burned by words and now focus more on actions. 

In fact, during the early stages I tend to not take words alone very seriously.  I have been lovebombed more than once via words, I had one man profess his love and propose marriage during the first meet!

Thats just one example but again for me, a person's actions are more important.

Here, she did pull back, which caused OP to create this thread and she has made plans this weekend with her friend and not suggested an alternative date with OP

Those are actions and should not be ignored imo. 

That said, she has started to move towards him again and is texting and sending pics which as most of us know, doesn't reveal much of anything, people text for all sorts of reasons.

But I think it's good he's remaining positive and will just have to see what happens when she returns and if she suggests an alternative day to get together.

Stay positive and remain cautiously optimistic.

[kim42]

8 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

It's not about "rules" or "the dance."  It's human nature for many people. 

Someone you just met and known for a mere 2-3 weeks is texting every day, morning and night, with the standard "good morning" and "good night" texts, I can say from personal experience I find that to be somewhat contrived and don't trust it, it's too much, too soon.  For me, obviously we are all different.

And what's she gonna say when he asks, that she hates it?  That can be difficult to admit as we don't want to come across as hurtful and unappreciative.

But he did sense a pull back of sorts so he did as well and she came forward.  So it's all good. 

Honestly I don't understand this forum sometimes.  We have one poster who constantly posts against "text tethering" that "text tethering" is not a relationship, and to text to make plans and date in person.

Now that same poster is advising the OP to do the opposite - contine texting same as always even after she requested a slow down.

I dont know anymore. 

Anyway, I'm really happy you found your "person" @LootieTootie, that you vibed well from the beginning and still do! 

That is so awesome!  Im really happy for you. 💛

 

I think if she didn't like the good morning and good night messages, she could have told him in a friendly way - no need to say she 'hates' them.

She said she likes these messages so I think OP can continue texting her if he wants to. If she likes him, she'll be happy to hear from him, even if she's on vacation.

[Batya33]

I think there is a natural -not game playing - dance of intimacy. Especially in the beginning -some pulling back after intense closeness - not in a game way.  After an intense catch up with a close friend I hadn't spoken to by phone in years- I likely wouldn't want to be that bonded to her an hour later if she called back and would have preferred a light convo -or none.  Maybe I even wouldn't have answered the call. 

I think it's not natural -or maybe even unfair- to spill on a near stranger your baggage of past relationships which now are going to affect how you see this new person or any new person.  I think the recipient should then choose whether to take that on and accommodate. It's not the same thing as a new person saying "oh thanks so much for offering to take me to the new VR place/amusement park - I don't do rides so it's probably not right for me.  That might be a dealbreaker for some but typically there are many other options. 

When someone tells you off the bat she's choosing fear over connection in general maybe you wish her well and tell her if/when she's ready- call and let's see where we are! I think maybe the OP sees it as a challenge -maybe it fueled that "rightness" feeling.

[Andrew Smith]

It hasn't been long since you met, and I think the foundation of your relationship is not that strong. Maybe get to know her more. Take it easy. 

[yogacat]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I think maybe the OP sees it as a challenge -maybe it fueled that "rightness" feeling.

I think so too. I dated a man for two weeks in and he said he was falling in love with me. I know we're supposed to take people at face value but I had a really hard time believing that. I postulated, and wondered, if he wasn't trying to get me invested and attached immediately because he was afraid of having me walk away? 

Anyway, OP, enjoy it while it lasts cause it's like a bubble, and when it pops and the reality re-enters then the ballgame begins. Getting premature ahead of oneself is from ignorance following a Hollywood script. 

You have only been dating for a few weeks yet. She still sent you pictures of her holiday, and didn't say she was busy when suggesting other plans, just that plans were already made.

I think she was just expressing her concerns and apprehensions, which is completely understandable in a new relationship. 

[rainbowsandroses]

@JamesTaylor7892checking in, is there an update?  

Has she returned from vacation? 

How's it going? 

[JamesTaylor7892]

 

 

 

 

[JamesTaylor7892]

Hey,

So just to update you guys, its unfortunately over as of this Tuesday.

In total we only dated for a month but I can't help but feel quite gutted about this one. We met up last Sunday up her way (first time since she came back from holiday on the Friday), went for Nando's then drove back to hers and relaxed on the couch in the evening together watching TV. At that time she still spoke in a positive way to me about things we could do together in the future like go to the gym, see a concert etc. but I couldn't help but feel something was off. She was vaping a lot and had a few glasses of wine, though to be fair every time I've seen her that's been the case. I had this inkling that there was something she wanted to get off her chest but I didn't go there out of fear of what the answer might be. 

She did talk to me a bit early into meeting up about the situation with her ex, how she needed to get a lawyer as they will be starting divorce proceedings. She mentioned how controlling he was financially and how she's uncertain as to what the custody agreement for her kids will be and that he will try and hide money from her etc. She had mentioned this to me before on an earlier date but I think she downplayed it a bit. 

I've attached our final messages to each other to this post. I can't help but feel sad, in the past year I've dated a number of girls but none came close to her in terms of emotional connection, we were on the same page about everything however maybe in this case the timing just wasn't right and I have no choice but to allow her to move on. I do get her point that this divorce could very well get messy and it will probably take every ounce of energy she has (particularly because she has two young children involved) that she can't commit to a relationship right now. My theory is maybe through me she found what she thought she wanted and then realised she wasn't up to the task. I don't think she realised maybe that she wasn't in the right headspace for it, maybe I pushed her away by saying things like 'miss you' and 'can't wait to see you' and that was all too soon for her.  I'm really not sure, but this one did feel like a kick to the gut if I'm honest.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

 

James

[yogacat]

She probably enjoyed having someone around to take her mind off of what she has going on.

That's just too much at this stage in the game. She is probably very aware that you are well meaning and sincere, and a great guy, but not someone she can pour energy into right now. This divorce she is only going to be able to think about her legal and financial future related to it. Her kids also will need time and energy.

I can so understand you being disappointed and feeling gutted, especially when you felt the resonance between you. But all you can do is accept her assessment of the situation. It isn't that you guys were a poor match, that you did this wrong or that -- it all has to be shelfed because she is in no place to handle it all.

She's not even divorced and for all you know, not even fully separated. It is a huge undertaking.

Forget about her, why consign yourself to being some little sidelight of attention during a major stage in her life?

I'm sorry you feel gutted. 🤕

[JamesTaylor7892]

6 minutes ago, yogacat said:

I don't see where you posted the messages... 

She probably enjoyed having someone around to take her mind off of what she has going on.

That's just too much at this stage in the game. She is probably very aware that you are well meaning and sincere, and a great guy, but not someone she can pour energy into right now. This divorce she is only going to be able to think about her legal and financial future related to it. Her kids also will need time and energy.

I can so understand you being disappointed and feeling gutted, especially when you felt the resonance between you. But all you can do is accept her assessment of the situation. It isn't that you guys were a poor match, that you did this wrong or that -- it all has to be shelfed because she is in no place to handle it all.

She's not even divorced and for all you know, not even fully separated. It is a huge undertaking.

Forget about her, why consign yourself to being some little sidelight of attention during a major stage in her life?

Messages have been approved and posted above my comment. Thank you, I appreciate what your saying and I totally agree, no point in opening myself up to someone who just isn't ready.