ADVICE! Tampon receipt passenger side of boyfriend's car

[MissCanuck]

This relationship is already over. 

You don't trust him and think he is shady. This will eat at you until the inevitable break-up happens. 

I would walk away now and stop wasting your time with man you don't feel is honest or has integrity. 

[Jaunty]

Why have you chosen to be in a relationship like this?

[Kwothe28]

First of, what kind of a slob he is when he has old receipts in his passenger seat? Or were you going through something else and found it?

Second of all, why are you doing a police investigation on him for something like that? You are either a paranoid who needs a therapy or just have to get out of there if he really gives you the reasons to believe he is cheating.

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, Cian_Symbol said:

I have been in counselling for years, it didn't help me when I was being actively cheated on and it won't prevent an emotional reaction if infidelity occurs again.

None of the men were unavailable. The only thing they had in common was how they regarded women sexually and their self esteem being connected to their desirability. The only other commonality between them was the tactics used to avoid detection.  

"you're doing the whole guilty till proven innocent thing" That's the thing, therapy has taught me that's actually how you should do things. You shouldn't get that close to people until they prove they can be trusted, not the other way around. Regardless, I had previously trusted my current partner. I do not anymore.  There's just no way to fully express all the information. 

But that last sentence is indeed very true. 

I agree with your  therapists. -but guilty till proven innocent is an extreme I don't agree with -you approach it in a suspicious, negative, hostile way with generalizations about "men" - how in the world will you ever get a healthy connection developing in that toxic soup you've chosen to create? So you go for people who are focused on sex to an inordinate degree, focused on how sexually desirable they are to an inordinate degree? Obiviously most people who are sexual beings enjoy being attractive to others but it sounds like you go for men who are focused on looking "hot" so to speak and wanting attention to their hotness? 

The common denominator is you.  I've dated men who were overly suspicious and negative like you - ugh - very annoying and it didn't last long but I can see where someone is like -look he /she already doesn't trust me might as well cheat anyway (I didn't just saying).

[yogacat]

13 hours ago, Cian_Symbol said:

The reasoning is just so complicated. He just seems like the type of guy who casually cheats while acting like everything is fine. It's vague things, like seeming secretive about us being together, how he talks to his male friends, snapchats from the same couple women, little white lies, the look on his face and mannerisms during those lies showing up in other contexts, seeming a bit nervous about certain questions, grooming behaviors before going on trips.

I have to agree with some of the other comments. Being in a relationship with you would be exHAUSTing.

How do we know you didn't put it there yourself and came up with a big story...

If something was upsetting me to this extent with a partner I would just ask him about it and be a big girl.

But you play the long game and waste a lot of headspace and time doing...what? 

[boltnrun]

How successful are you at "trying" not to think about something that obviously upsets you?

I read this somewhere: "When you look for trouble you usually find it". I have found this to be true. 

[Coily]

Does this guy or his friends have a black powder musket? If so it's a simple explanation, the guys went out, bought tampons and made flaming squirrels! Not sure why all the drama.

[Cian_Symbol]

Lol some of you guys are making a lot of assumptions off of very little and being pretty judgy and dismissive. Which is ironic.

[Jaunty]

2 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

Lol some of you guys are making a lot of assumptions off of very little and being pretty judgy and dismissive. Which is ironic.

Honestly - looking at receipts in somebody's car is worthy of dismissiveness.   

You have chosen to be in a relationship with a person you believe is a liar and a cheater, and this relationship you have created puts you in the role of a fake detective and that's about all.

Your choice, but what you would be learning here - if you were actually interested in learning - is that there is no reason to be living like this.  Unless, of course, you like it on some levels.  

[Cian_Symbol]

1 minute ago, Jaunty said:

Honestly - looking at receipts in somebody's car is worthy of dismissiveness.   

You have chosen to be in a relationship with a person you believe is a liar and a cheater, and this relationship you have created puts you in the role of a fake detective and that's about all.

Your choice, but what you would be learning here - if you were actually interested in learning - is that there is no reason to be living like this.  Unless, of course, you like it on some levels.  

That's a pretty crazy statement. It was one receipt at my feet while I was sitting in the car that I picked up because I thought it was mine.

Maybe you should ask yourself why you wanna do back and forth arguments with a stranger asking for help. I've been fairly polite to people. At least I don't talk to anyone like that unless they've done something really bad.

[Jaunty]

7 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

That's a pretty crazy statement. It was one receipt at my feet while I was sitting in the car that I picked up because I thought it was mine.

Maybe you should ask yourself why you wanna do back and forth arguments with a stranger asking for help. I've been fairly polite to people. At least I don't talk to anyone like that unless they've done something really bad.

Excuse me but I was responding to you saying that the people here are making assumptions based on very little, and being dismissive.

Rude.

Obviously you are not here for any help, so happy receipt collecting.  I hope you build a convincing case that will allow you to have the evidence you feel you need in order to end a toxic situation you seem to be enjoying on some sad level.

Carry on.

[rainbowsandroses]

19 hours ago, Cian_Symbol said:

What do you think?

@Cian_Symbolthis^ was the last sentence in your initial post. 

If I may ask, why did you create this thread?  What were you hoping to hear?

If you believe our responses are based on 'very little', that's only because you have shared with us very little. 

What confuses me is what you posted about not fully trusting a "stranger' and not having a good sense of who they are. 

I agreed and responded by asking why did you choose to enter into an exclusive relationship with a man you considered a stranger?  Who you don't have a good sense of who he was and is? 

I am not accusing you of anything, just asking.  Because I'm confused and seek to understand.

Which is also what many of us have suggested you do with your boyfriend -- ask.   Not for reassurance but rather for understanding.  

It's still unclear why you're so averse to doing that?

I find it difficult to believe that any good qualified therapist worth his/her salt recommends not communicating with your partner when something troubles you or confuses you and seek to understand.

There is also nothing wrong with seeking reassurance when warranted. 

Otherwise, that is one very cold and shallow relationship lacking true intimacy (I don't mean sexually).

You said you've been in therapy for awhile.  I'm sorry but perhaps you need a new one, this one seems to be doing you more harm than good, imo based on what you have chosen to share with us. 

 

 

[Cian_Symbol]

13 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@Cian_Symbolthis^ was the last sentence in your initial post. 

If I may ask, why did you create this thread?  What what you're hoping to hear?

If you believe our responses are based on very little, that's only because you have  shared with us very little. 

What confuses me is what you posted about not fully trusting a "stranger' and not having a good sense of who they are. 

I agreed and responded by asking why did you choose to enter into an exclusive relationship with a man you considered a stranger?  Who you don't have a good sense of who he was and is? 

I am not accusing you of anything, just asking.  Because I'm confused.

Which is also what many of us have suggested you do with your boyfriend -- ask.

It's still unclear why you're so averse to doing that?

I find it difficult to believe that any good qualified therapist worth his/her salt recommends not communicating with your partner when something troubles you or you need clarification.

There is also nothing wrong with seeking reassurance when warranted. 

Otherwise, that is one very cold and shallow relationship lacking true intimacy (I don't mean sexually).

You said you've been in therapy for awhile.  I'm sorry but perhaps you need a new one, this one seems to be doing you more harm than good, imo based on what you have chosen to share with us. 

 

 

There have been some wonderful, reasonable and empathetic responses as well which were very helpful in deciding what I should do. But lot are victim blamey stuff about my former relationship which I only gave one sentence about. 

Lack of info doesn't equate to projecting negative attributes on a human being.

My therapist didn't say that though. I have repeatedly said there has been communication. It's the type and context of communication that matters but I already attempted to explain it. 

"When warranted" ok then who decides when it's warranted? Because comments here suggest when it's not warranted it makes you exhausting and basically a bad person and I think it's unreasonable to expect a person to know exactly when it's socially defined as warranted.

I've seen maybe 5 therapists about this stuff over the past few years and if they are all saying more or less the same things, I'd tend to think they are correct. They have a lot more info and these situations aren't so cut and dry.

[rainbowsandroses]

Can you answer this question (quoted below)? 

It would be helpful.  Because the way it reads now (without further explanation) you entered into an exclusive relationship with a man who for all intents and purposes was a stranger to you, who you didn't know or have a good sense of who he was or is.

And as such, you don't trust him.  And need him to earn your trust and prove he's trustworthy.

You also sound fearful of losing him.  And believe by asking questions seeking a better understanding (i.e about the receipt) you may come across as insecure, seeking reassurance and not being able to regulate your emotions.

Just my sense of the situation wrong or right. 

In any event, again if would kindly answer the below, it would be appreciated and may help with understanding better.  Thank you. 

32 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

What confuses me is what you posted about not fully trusting a "stranger' and not having a good sense of who they are. 

I agreed and responded by asking why did you choose to enter into an exclusive relationship with a man you considered a stranger?  Who you don't have a good sense of who he was and is? 

I am not accusing you of anything, just asking.  Because I'm confused and seek to understand.

 

[boltnrun]

You have said yourself you have chosen to be in a relationship with a man you don't trust. And you also said you believe if you ask him outright why there was a receipt for tampons in his car he will likely lie or gaslight. 

And THAT is what I'm questioning. Why you would choose to be in a relationship with someone you believe will lie to you or gaslight you. 

I also asked if you truly believe you can successfully not think about this issue (which you said you would try to do).

I also said I have been there and the only resolution came when the relationship ended. Because prior to that I too was doing the Sherlock Holmes routine, which was degrading and exhausting. 

[Cian_Symbol]

6 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Can you answer this question (quoted below)? 

It would be helpful.  Because the way it reads now (without further explanation) you entered into an exclusive relationship with a man who for all intents and purposes was a stranger to you, who you didn't know or have a good sense of who he was or is.

And as such, you don't trust him.  And need him to earn your trust and prove he's trustworthy.

You also sound fearful of losing him.  And believe by asking questions seeking a better understanding (i.e about the receipt) you may come across as insecure, seeking reassurance and not being able to regulate your emotions.

Just my sense of the situation wrong or right. 

In any event, again if would kindly answer the below, it would be appreciated and may help with understanding better.  Thank you. 

 

Of course, I'll try my best. Thank you.

We were friends for a little while and then we dated. I said I needed to go slow to get to know him before attaching and that I didn't want to date unless I could give him full trust. I wasn't suspicious of him I just didn't want to repeat my former mistakes. I had trust issues that weren't specific to him but I got a sense of who he was with me and so we became exclusive. I had noticed a few concerning things but they seemed small enough.

Then as he became more comfortable and we had more experiences together a number of things happened that made me mistrust him. Things I perceived as betraying my trust, mostly doing things I had confided in him which were triggering. I can't list them all. He does a lot of wonderful things for me but his values and some of the things he says concern me. He knows a specific moment when the issue for me with him really began and he knows I went on medication and am struggling because of it.

Second part about losing him is exactly right. Or even just being unfair or unkind to him, not necessarily losing. Like if he never left I wouldn't just be ok with it.

 

In my experience dating, people aren't really known to you until many months. And even then you should probably befriend those who have known them for many years. If you just don't commit they will just keep their masks on longer. So this whole "why did you choose this relationship" thing is a fallacy and a common one where I think most people have already heard the idea debunked. People choose the mask of a person. The stranger part was just to illustrate what was meant by my original statement. 

[rainbowsandroses]

44 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

I've seen maybe 5 therapists about this stuff over the past few years and if they are all saying more or less the same things, I'd tend to think they are correct.

I'm curious who these therapist are.  Were they recommended by your primary with good credentials?   

Or therapists you found online?

I am utterly disheartened that they ALL recommend NOT communicating with your partner, asking questions when confused for a better understanding, and approving of your method - playing detective, checking receipts, credit card numbers, etc.

Do they also recommend checking his phone periodically (behind his back) to determine if he's been texting/sexting other women?

Because heck, why ask?  He'll only lie and gaslight anyway?

I'm sorry, I don't know anymore.  I'm so disheartened by this.

All the best and again hope everything works out.

 

 

[Batya33]

When you two were just friends first did you trust him as a friend?

[Coily]

8 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

Things I perceived as betraying my trust, mostly doing things I had confided in him which were triggering. I can't list them all. He does a lot of wonderful things for me but his values and some of the things he says concern me. He knows a specific moment when the issue for me with him really began and he knows I went on medication and am struggling because of it.

Now we're getting somewhere. Are these things that previous cheaters did, and you are extra sensitive to these things? Where you could, as you said, perceive intents and actions as more hostile than he actually means?

Curious about the value mismatch and what he says that are off putting for you. Are there specific things or general things? You don't have to expound on them here if you aren't comfortable.  But I think some of this is really a core personality mismatch. This doesn't make him like your cheating exs, but that you could project on to him these attributes.

Personally I think these therapists are just milking you for profit. From what you have told us, they aren't giving you the tools you need to develop a more healthy way of communication with your BF. Now I think you have enough good instincts to sniff out a gas leak from this guy; but you aren't engaging him in conversation to catch the signs.

My question to you, is what do you want out of this situation?

[Cian_Symbol]

17 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

You have said yourself you have chosen to be in a relationship with a man you don't trust. And you also said you believe if you ask him outright why there was a receipt for tampons in his car he will likely lie or gaslight. 

And THAT is what I'm questioning. Why you would choose to be in a relationship with someone you believe will lie to you or gaslight you. 

I also asked if you truly believe you can successfully not think about this issue (which you said you would try to do).

I also said I have been there and the only resolution came when the relationship ended. Because prior to that I too was doing the Sherlock Holmes routine, which was degrading and exhausting. 

I was neutral when agreeing to be bf/gf, I didn't mistrust him yet. But you're right, I made the same mistake of agreeing to date before really getting to know someone. The only people I've trusted and should have trusted were ones who I had known and shared a social circle for years. I should have done that. 

I am merely thinking logically. If the receipt is from another woman, he would just lie. I don't know if he would or wouldn't gaslight. I *feel* like he's lying to me sometimes. It takes a long time to be with a cheater or liar before you *know* if they are or not. I was speaking in practical terms. I don't see the utility in asking other than to make him annoyed. But if people genuinely think I should then I will. My perspective is is that if it's not significant then there will be another "receipt" and another and another. 

If you think it won't get better from here, that's valuable advice I should listen to...I don't have high confidence I'll be able to stop thinking this way. It didn't stop last time but last time I was being constantly cheated on and gaslit about it and subjected to physical violence no matter how I approached the topic. I was hoping it would die down. Maybe I should have a time limit? 

My perspective is is that even if I'm being cheated on, it shouldn't be a huge focus of mine. A lot of people even know they are being cheated on and seem emotionally fine. 

 

[Cian_Symbol]

15 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I'm curious who these therapist are.  Were they recommended by your primary with good credentials?   

Or therapists you found online?

I am utterly disheartened that they ALL recommend NOT communicating with your partner, asking questions when confused for a better understanding, and approving of your method - playing detective, checking receipts, credit card numbers, etc.

Do they also recommend checking his phone periodically (behind his back) to determine if he's been texting/sexting other women?

Because heck, why ask?  He'll only lie and gaslight anyway?

I'm sorry, I don't know anymore.  I'm so disheartened by this.

All the best and again hope everything works out.

 

 

I have a psychiatrist who handles meds, I have a psychiatrist who runs a group, I have had several betterhelp counsellors, and I've participated in many free online groups for victims of abuse. 

...You're willfully ignoring what I'm saying to you and putting words in my mouth 😕 I think you know none of them said that.

[rainbowsandroses]

23 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

If the receipt is from another woman, he would just lie.

Yes he might and this is where you utilize your perceptive skills because it's quite easy to spot a liar when you know what to look for. 

It's not "what" he says in response but rather "how" he says it.

As I said previously if he gets "antsy," darts his eyes back and forth, unable to make eye contact or gets defensive, those are all signs someone is or may be lying.

That is why it's always best to ask in a non-threatening, non-accusatory way. 

His response whether words or actions or both will tell you everything you need to know. 

Take care of YOU.  It's your heart and your life.

Choose wisely from the getgo and avoid possible pain and heartbreak later.

[boltnrun]

10 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

My perspective is is that even if I'm being cheated on, it shouldn't be a huge focus of mine. A lot of people even know they are being cheated on and seem emotionally fine. 

Do you honestly feel you are fine with having a relationship with someone you believe cheats on you? You don't feel cheating is something you should have a "huge focus" on?

If that's true, and you honestly don't care if the person you're in love with cheats on you, then I guess I don't understand why you would even care who he bought tampons for. 

Or are you trying to convince yourself you are fine with sharing your emotions and your body with someone who shares those things with other women? How others choose to deal with knowing the person they love cheats on them is irrelevant. 

[Cian_Symbol]

7 minutes ago, Coily said:

Now we're getting somewhere. Are these things that previous cheaters did, and you are extra sensitive to these things? Where you could, as you said, perceive intents and actions as more hostile than he actually means?

Curious about the value mismatch and what he says that are off putting for you. Are there specific things or general things? You don't have to expound on them here if you aren't comfortable.  But I think some of this is really a core personality mismatch. This doesn't make him like your cheating exs, but that you could project on to him these attributes.

Personally I think these therapists are just milking you for profit. From what you have told us, they aren't giving you the tools you need to develop a more healthy way of communication with your BF. Now I think you have enough good instincts to sniff out a gas leak from this guy; but you aren't engaging him in conversation to catch the signs.

My question to you, is what do you want out of this situation?

It could be that. But it also could be the same mechanisms that told me I was in danger with the last cheaters. Again, it's been right literally 100% of the time except when I was like 20 which was a long time ago. You could say all the same things back then as well. And it was said, regularly. That I was projecting and paranoid. So I got evidence. And then everyone was very apologetic lol. Their other exes who also were told they were paranoid appreciated it too. And it's not a "if you look for something, you'll find it" thing. We're talking serial cheaters who have long lists of damaged people behind them. Even for people I'm not personally dating I just wait a couple months.

But all those questions you asked are one I regularly ask myself. It's very hard. I asked myself those questions with the main guy who cheated on me in the past as well. And it all was true and even worse than I feared. 

 

We have mismatched values for sure but I'd be ok with that if I didn't associate the behaviour with betrayal. I wouldn't mind if I could trust him. Like, after my experiences, my list of deal breakers with guys got a lot shorter.

Uh I don't pay for my psychiatrists and they would be saying I am more severely mentally ill if they were milking me for profit instead of saying the other person are at least somewhat responsible. 

I want to love someone who loves me and is loyal to me?

[Cian_Symbol]

6 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Yes he might and this is where you utilize your perceptive skills because it's quite easy to spot a liar when you know what to look for. 

It's not "what" he says in response but rather "how" he says it.

As I said previously if he gets "antsy," darts his eyes back and forth, unable to make eye contact or gets defensive, those are all signs someone is or may be lying.

That is why it's always best to ask in a non-threatening, non-accusatory way. 

Take care of YOU.  It's your heart and your life.

Choose wisely from the getgo and avoid possible pain and heartbreak later.

Yeah he does those behaviours when I've asked him things before. But I have doubts that compelling enough evidence to dump him. I can get quite nervous myself.

People put on "the perfect guy" mask a lot. So it's hard to choose right. 

 

Edit: other comments here suggest though that I'm not perceptive but paranoid. So are they skills or am I just projecting.