ADVICE! Tampon receipt passenger side of boyfriend's car

[Cian_Symbol]

11 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Look I really hope you are recovering in therapy and you find what you are looking for. Although I agree that the way your boyfriend behaved in Vegas was bad and very thoughtless, I get a strong sense you don't even like him to begin with. You speak basically only badly of him and you called the sweet things he supposedly does "love bombing". He doesn't seem to suit you or what you prefer in a partner. You said you have a problem with him having his single friends and suspect they're a bad influence on him. I think in all fairness unless you met them, you don't know how they are. You don't know if they even used escorts or maybe they were just drinking at a casino. Lots and lots of assumptions and projections only based on your past experiences. 

I was actually engaged to someone with severe mental health issues and he was very self focused due to this. He got anxious in crowds and if we happened to be in a crowd, he yelled at me like it was my fault. He was anxious about calling on the phone so he asked me to make all his calls for him. Basically he said I had to "adapt" to the fact that he had mental health struggles and live accordingly to ease them for him. You probably don't see it but I was absolutely exhausted.

Again those are feelings that I said could be distorted thinking and not actual beliefs and don't affect my actual behaviours toward my partner. Please dont turn my private thoughts into actions. I'm very aware of all that.

Yeah I don't think this is analogous to your situation although I sympathize with what you went through. I had a partner like that a long time ago as well but I don't communicate like that. I do think you may be perceiving what I've said through your own lense. 

Yelling is never an effective way of communicating and I've never yelled at him. 

[Cian_Symbol]

24 minutes ago, yogacat said:

I think this is beyond our paygrade. I don't discount your own past struggles, but you are almost paralyzed in fear of trusting a person you are going out with.

Now it's rubbing off on you accusing people of trying to sell you out for whatever reason.

You are doing quite the same.

If you express and the guy continues to invalidate then of course it could be one thing. 

But really for now it is you trying to lattice your own inconsistencies against his actions to create a believable argument against him.

Recognize this is not what you need to focus on.

You need to focus on your loyalty and your own attachment...not a fight which as I have said very well may end up fruitless. You may try all these tricks and find nothing and it later lead to a destructive measure of control and surveillance...or you will find something and it really won't mean anything (- you realize after-the-fact.)

Either way is dangerous and you very well are admitting it yourself. 

Yeah, good point. I do think a couple people here are over pathologizing me though. A few commenters aren't very sensitive in their approaches. 

Don't worry, staying and doing surveillance for a meaningful amount of time isn't going to happen. I'm never doing that again. Thats why i said i didnt want to enmesh lives without full unconditional trust. I thought the receipt thing might have been legitimate. Folks don't seem to think so so that's the end of that.

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

5 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I’m wondering if you view his behavior as "familiar" due to your past trauma and as such, strangely "comfortable"?  Could even be on a subconscious level.

 

3 hours ago, Cian_Symbol said:

Nah, I don't think it's a pattern. It seems to be the luck of the draw. I just have problems leaving. I feel guilty or have decisions paralysis. 

Well for example when I said I was depressed and couldn't hang out he came and brought me gifts one of which was a thing I said was cute in passing and he went and got me. He then snuggled me all evening ^_^

But the thing is I'm aware of love bombing. There's just something off. He will then just say something I perceive as unkind after doing this nice thing. So i feel bad for being like hey wait a minute.

I mean… you say “no” to @rainbowsandroseshypothesis, and then go on to actually define the hypothesis in detail….

 

This is what I was getting at in my previous response to you: I do think there’s a high chance this guy is cheating because you’re [potentially] picking men to repeat these cycles with. Yes, you’re freaking out and your responses are very extreme to most people so they’ll focus on your behavior and miss the fact there could be a solid reason behind your behavior.  
 

I think your behavior is likely because you have reason to leave this relationship but youre not listening to your body because you’ve been conditioned not to, conditioned to betray yourself in order to stay in relationships —Prime target for cheaters to sniff out and take advantage of, btw— And because you don’t have 100% proof of any cheating, you second guess yourself which leaves the door open to you being gaslit, and you repeat the cycle again.. over and over. 
 

People who have a patterned history of being cheated on, are exponentially more likely to be cheated on. It’s an unconscious cycle

 

now, suppose he isn’t cheating on you, I still think your body is queuing you into something, and instead of trying to invalidate yourself in the name of 100% evidence, why can’t it just be enough that he hasn’t been safe for you? Demonstrably so, your own antics aside.  I don’t see this as an environment you could even begin to heal in.  

[EternalOptimis]

There's a difference between love and attachment. We're guilty of conflating the two.

Cheaters, and cheatees, very sadly, are often serial.

[Tinydance]

5 hours ago, Cian_Symbol said:

Yeah, good point. I do think a couple people here are over pathologizing me though. A few commenters aren't very sensitive in their approaches. 

Don't worry, staying and doing surveillance for a meaningful amount of time isn't going to happen. I'm never doing that again. Thats why i said i didnt want to enmesh lives without full unconditional trust. I thought the receipt thing might have been legitimate. Folks don't seem to think so so that's the end of that.

 

I don't know whether it's legitimate or not but you are allowed to ask. Unless you just want to end the relationship anyway so you don't see the need to ask. I think being in a relationship means you should be able to ask things that are on your mind. There is actually a difference between asking and accusing. You could simply say you found the receipt and were curious. You don't need to say it's because you suspect him of cheating.

I actually don't agree that he is cheating *necessarily*. I just don’t believe in blaming people unless you did find clear signs. You did find a clear sign that he sent you the escort ad so yes he's guilty of that. If it seems like I'm defending him it's because he may not actually be cheating, but yet is being suspected of it. I don't like it when people are just pigeon holed based on previous prejudices. And some people have very black and white views like: "This person had a one night stand once so they'll cheat". Everyone is an individual so one person could go to Vegas and cheat and one could go and not do that. 

If you want to dump him because he triggers you then you are absolutely free to do so. However simply seeing the tampon receipt isn't a trigger to everyone. It's your life so you could break up with him for any reason you want. But since you don't actually have clear proof that he did cheat, at this point it's just an assumption. There could be something behind it or not but you have no idea.

For example I could see a text from a woman on my partner's phone saying: "See you tonight". I could assume he's going to a hotel to have sex with her but really he could be going to a work party with fifty colleagues and she's one of the colleagues. Just because you think something in your mind doesn't always make it a reality.

[Batya33]

Just wanted to add I think it's fine for people to "censor" themselves with their partners based on sensitivities -just depends on the extent and how much it affects daily life. 

My mom before she was widowed used to joke when our landline rang and she couldn't get to the phone "oh please tell my lover I'll call him back!" My mom who'd met my dad when she was 16, only been with him lol.  She'd never have made that joke if it irritated my dad. 

I love my prom pictures.  I've shared them via message/text with friends because of the 80s dress brand and -they're fun to share with friends.  But if I shared them with my husband -or showed them to our son -he'd likely be annoyed -and he has no traumatic past, etc..  Should he be?

I'd be totally fine if he showed me photos of a high school girlfriend at a formal (hypothetically) but I wasn't fine when he randomly said in the car as we drove by the street where his most recent ex lived in a far away city where we were visiting "Oh that's where ___ used  to live!" -He hadn't mentioned her in years.  I told him - to me that was inappropriate especially in front of our son -do you want him to ask who she is? He apologized -was a random comment. 

Just like if I showed him my prom photos it might have been with purely nostalgic intentions.  It's like when in a relationship -at least I do this -if you want to talk about a country you visited but it was with an ex - it's nice to edit it out and simply describe what you saw or what you ate- not who you were with.  I don't believe in letting it all hang out with your partner and I believe even with the best of intentions -of caring for your partner - sometimes we have to pause and say "oops maybe I shouldn't say that -I know he's sensitive on that subject". 

Or if  you say it inadvertently as my husband did you apologize (he did) and you can say -sorry I just rambled" - that's where trust comes in -I trust him that he was just pointing stuff out and wasn't dwelling on his ex or secretly wishing he was with her. But if I didn't trust him I totally would have gone there -probably interrogated him.  And if so we -wouldn't be married now I suspect.

By contrast if I was never allowed to mention any place I'd visited because it connected to an ex- or he wasn't -that's -too much censoring.  For me.  It's a balance but to me "censor" isn't a dirty word.  Walking on eggshells- yes.

I think also it comes from a place of caring -so much of this is a nothing burger because when  you care it's like second nature to absorb who your partner is and their particular sensitivities so quite often it doesn't feel like censoring, it just feels like common sense caring/politeness.  But distrust erodes caring -they can coexist but the negativity from constant suspicion and distrust - how can caring survive?

One more thing -he told you who he was if you'd listened -a long time ago. The shaving his body so strangers won't notice body hair is another example of his intense focus on looks and bodies.  Which is fine for some I'm sure - cover for every pot - but where he goes with that focus -is not right for you.  I agree with all the oil and water posters who commented. Again I am sorry for what  you went through and I'm sorry you received that obnoxious text from him.

[Cian_Symbol]

8 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

 

I mean… you say “no” to @rainbowsandroseshypothesis, and then go on to actually define the hypothesis in detail….

 

This is what I was getting at in my previous response to you: I do think there’s a high chance this guy is cheating because you’re [potentially] picking men to repeat these cycles with. Yes, you’re freaking out and your responses are very extreme to most people so they’ll focus on your behavior and miss the fact there could be a solid reason behind your behavior.  
 

I think your behavior is likely because you have reason to leave this relationship but youre not listening to your body because you’ve been conditioned not to, conditioned to betray yourself in order to stay in relationships —Prime target for cheaters to sniff out and take advantage of, btw— And because you don’t have 100% proof of any cheating, you second guess yourself which leaves the door open to you being gaslit, and you repeat the cycle again.. over and over. 
 

People who have a patterned history of being cheated on, are exponentially more likely to be cheated on. It’s an unconscious cycle

 

now, suppose he isn’t cheating on you, I still think your body is queuing you into something, and instead of trying to invalidate yourself in the name of 100% evidence, why can’t it just be enough that he hasn’t been safe for you? Demonstrably so, your own antics aside.  I don’t see this as an environment you could even begin to heal in.  

Oh, OK yeah I think I understand the logic now. It's just that my current bf seemed really different and more like the guys I used to date who didn't cheat and then his behaviour changed so idk what I could be seeing to pick. What's going on with my body and the situation you're observing is definitely a pattern. I get emotionally trapped in relationships and my body tells me I need to pay attention and get out. It's similar to relationship ocd and because things were so bad in the past and I couldn't leave it's a lot stronger now. 

 

4 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I don't know whether it's legitimate or not but you are allowed to ask. Unless you just want to end the relationship anyway so you don't see the need to ask. I think being in a relationship means you should be able to ask things that are on your mind. There is actually a difference between asking and accusing. You could simply say you found the receipt and were curious. You don't need to say it's because you suspect him of cheating.

I actually don't agree that he is cheating *necessarily*. I just don’t believe in blaming people unless you did find clear signs. You did find a clear sign that he sent you the escort ad so yes he's guilty of that. If it seems like I'm defending him it's because he may not actually be cheating, but yet is being suspected of it. I don't like it when people are just pigeon holed based on previous prejudices. And some people have very black and white views like: "This person had a one night stand once so they'll cheat". Everyone is an individual so one person could go to Vegas and cheat and one could go and not do that. 

If you want to dump him because he triggers you then you are absolutely free to do so. However simply seeing the tampon receipt isn't a trigger to everyone. It's your life so you could break up with him for any reason you want. But since you don't actually have clear proof that he did cheat, at this point it's just an assumption. There could be something behind it or not but you have no idea.

For example I could see a text from a woman on my partner's phone saying: "See you tonight". I could assume he's going to a hotel to have sex with her but really he could be going to a work party with fifty colleagues and she's one of the colleagues. Just because you think something in your mind doesn't always make it a reality.

But you would be casually told about the party in the process of your daily conversation, not told there's a party after you ask about a text. The not mentioning a party part is more suspicious to me than the text itself because that signifies a sort of avoidant attachment style. But sure, I get your point.

Funny enough the biggest red flag about the bad ex for me was his car got broken into and he didn't tell me. Later his therapist said he doesn't attach to people. 

My point in responding to you has just been that "this isn't sufficient evidence" doesn't actually make the anxiety or general feeling that something isn't right go away. It makes the other person unaware you have these feelings but it doesn't help me. I will ask him about the receipt when it feels like a good time but right now my body would prob still tell me he's lying in his response so right now im reassessing all of my past assumptions of things that have occured. 

People are making decisions based on their perception of risk and sure one trait a person has doesn't mean they do something else but it's human nature. You assess risk based on a series of associated behaviour. Like, in terms of dating, I dont think I'm anywhere near as picky or discerning or rather I don't just stop seeing the person. Which is bad. Lots of people will stop dating someone because they got an ick because they associate it with someone else. But because i dismiss it as "not evidentiary" I keep seeing them.

It's just your "best guess" of who someone is based on what you know. But I get your point. 

4 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Just wanted to add I think it's fine for people to "censor" themselves with their partners based on sensitivities -just depends on the extent and how much it affects daily life. 

My mom before she was widowed used to joke when our landline rang and she couldn't get to the phone "oh please tell my lover I'll call him back!" My mom who'd met my dad when she was 16, only been with him lol.  She'd never have made that joke if it irritated my dad. 

I love my prom pictures.  I've shared them via message/text with friends because of the 80s dress brand and -they're fun to share with friends.  But if I shared them with my husband -or showed them to our son -he'd likely be annoyed -and he has no traumatic past, etc..  Should he be?

I'd be totally fine if he showed me photos of a high school girlfriend at a formal (hypothetically) but I wasn't fine when he randomly said in the car as we drove by the street where his most recent ex lived in a far away city where we were visiting "Oh that's where ___ used  to live!" -He hadn't mentioned her in years.  I told him - to me that was inappropriate especially in front of our son -do you want him to ask who she is? He apologized -was a random comment. 

Just like if I showed him my prom photos it might have been with purely nostalgic intentions.  It's like when in a relationship -at least I do this -if you want to talk about a country you visited but it was with an ex - it's nice to edit it out and simply describe what you saw or what you ate- not who you were with.  I don't believe in letting it all hang out with your partner and I believe even with the best of intentions -of caring for your partner - sometimes we have to pause and say "oops maybe I shouldn't say that -I know he's sensitive on that subject". 

Or if  you say it inadvertently as my husband did you apologize (he did) and you can say -sorry I just rambled" - that's where trust comes in -I trust him that he was just pointing stuff out and wasn't dwelling on his ex or secretly wishing he was with her. But if I didn't trust him I totally would have gone there -probably interrogated him.  And if so we -wouldn't be married now I suspect.

By contrast if I was never allowed to mention any place I'd visited because it connected to an ex- or he wasn't -that's -too much censoring.  For me.  It's a balance but to me "censor" isn't a dirty word.  Walking on eggshells- yes.

I think also it comes from a place of caring -so much of this is a nothing burger because when  you care it's like second nature to absorb who your partner is and their particular sensitivities so quite often it doesn't feel like censoring, it just feels like common sense caring/politeness.  But distrust erodes caring -they can coexist but the negativity from constant suspicion and distrust - how can caring survive?

One more thing -he told you who he was if you'd listened -a long time ago. The shaving his body so strangers won't notice body hair is another example of his intense focus on looks and bodies.  Which is fine for some I'm sure - cover for every pot - but where he goes with that focus -is not right for you.  I agree with all the oil and water posters who commented. Again I am sorry for what  you went through and I'm sorry you received that obnoxious text from him.

Thank you for sharing your story and how healthy relationships are supposed to function. I mean, I do these things for my partner and I think it's the right thing to do, but sometimes I feel like I'm asking too much. But I really made it so easy to figure out and do this time. Yeah...I really need to think if we even work. 

[boltnrun]

What I base my decision on is...how do I feel in this relationship?  Do I feel safe, loved, comfortable, respected and secure?  Or do I feel anxious, fearful of what "might" happen, degraded, helpless or powerless?

And to me it doesn't matter if I know for sure what's causing my bad feelings.  But like I mentioned before, when I was in a relationship with a good man I didn't feel the bad feelings.  I could get annoyed, sure, but that's normal when two people are frequently interacting or share living quarters.  But with my husband, for example?  I NEVER feared he would cheat.  I NEVER saw or heard anything that made me doubt he was with me because he wanted to be or caused me to think he might have his eyes on anyone else.  He never looked in my handbag and I never looked in his wallet (no cell phones back then!).  We had trust.

To me, if there's no trust there can be no relationship.  Period.

[Cian_Symbol]

6 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

What I base my decision on is...how do I feel in this relationship?  Do I feel safe, loved, comfortable, respected and secure?  Or do I feel anxious, fearful of what "might" happen, degraded, helpless or powerless?

And to me it doesn't matter if I know for sure what's causing my bad feelings.  But like I mentioned before, when I was in a relationship with a good man I didn't feel the bad feelings.  I could get annoyed, sure, but that's normal when two people are frequently interacting or share living quarters.  But with my husband, for example?  I NEVER feared he would cheat.  I NEVER saw or heard anything that made me doubt he was with me because he wanted to be or caused me to think he might have his eyes on anyone else.  He never looked in my handbag and I never looked in his wallet (no cell phones back then!).  We had trust.

To me, if there's no trust there can be no relationship.  Period.

I hear you and agree 1000%. unless I can get there with him soon, I'll end it. 

[boltnrun]

6 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

I hear you and agree 1000%. unless I can get there with him soon, I'll end it. 

What I mean is, I didn't have to "get there" with my husband.  I knew pretty much from jump he wouldn't treat me poorly.  If I suspected he might I wouldn't have entered into a relationship with him.

Getting into the relationship and then "hoping" it becomes a good, loving and secure relationship is backwards IMO.  And I broke that boundary big time with my toxic ex.  He loved on me like crazy at first, but it was pretty apparent early on that he really liked attention from females and wouldn't stop seeking it or encouraging it even if he was in a relationship.  Shoot, he pursued me while he was in a relationship with someone else!  That should have been a glaring red flag, but I was so flattered that this good-looking younger athlete seemed to want me.  I went all in BEFORE fully vetting him and that was stupid.  I won't do that ever again.

[Jaunty]

5 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Getting into the relationship and then "hoping" it becomes a good, loving and secure relationship is backwards IMO.  

I think this is an absolute.  If a person feels no trust, not "safe," is trying to make the other person be different than they are OR is trying to make themselves different in order to be "right" for the loved one -

It's a NO.  

It took some age and experience for me to really grasp the absolute nature of this state of affairs.

I think that the OP might be very young - a teen.  Their argumentative and sometimes snarky interaction, refusal to hear other points of view, and mainly, firmly taking a stance that they're RIGHT and that they will be the first to break down a barrier and do it "their way"  - all seem to fit.  Besides the fact that this tampon scandal took place in her bf's parents' car.  

It would be great if a young teen could avoid making the same mistakes that others made simply because others are explaining the facts - but it rarely works out that way.

[Cian_Symbol]

3 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

What I mean is, I didn't have to "get there" with my husband.  I knew pretty much from jump he wouldn't treat me poorly.  If I suspected he might I wouldn't have entered into a relationship with him.

Getting into the relationship and then "hoping" it becomes a good, loving and secure relationship is backwards IMO.  And I broke that boundary big time with my toxic ex.  He loved on me like crazy at first, but it was pretty apparent early on that he really liked attention from females and wouldn't stop seeking it or encouraging it even if he was in a relationship.  Shoot, he pursued me while he was in a relationship with someone else!  That should have been a glaring red flag, but I was so flattered that this good-looking younger athlete seemed to want me.  I went all in BEFORE fully vetting him and that was stupid.  I won't do that ever again.

Oh boy yeah that's a big flag for sure. I've learned a lot of the time it's about how our partner makes us feel about ourselves and we're attached to this idea of superior status by our association with them. Maybe I need to reflect on what concepts I'm currently attached to.

I did really trust him and had good vibes,  that's why I wanted to be his gf in the first place so it's confusing. I wanted to be able to be a good gf to him too. So I'm embarrassed by my thoughts. 

I have had relationships like that in the past too where trust was so easy...but my self esteem was way higher, I had a busy lifestyle, lots of friends, felt more attractive...i dont know how id have perceived those people now. it's hard for me to know what percentage is me projecting trauma. A couple people here said that's entirely what's going on...I don't think that's true but it's got to be at least part of the equation. 

[boltnrun]

Why is your self esteem low, why do you no longer have a "busy lifestyle" and why don't you still have lots of friends?

I was cheated on by my toxic ex and while it made me feel pretty terrible DURING the relationship it certainly didn't damage my self-esteem after it was over.  I continued seeing friends and I was just as busy with work and activities as I always had been.  I'd be g*ddamned if I was going to let that guy destroy me.

[Cian_Symbol]

23 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

I think this is an absolute.  If a person feels no trust, not "safe," is trying to make the other person be different than they are OR is trying to make themselves different in order to be "right" for the loved one -

It's a NO.  

It took some age and experience for me to really grasp the absolute nature of this state of affairs.

I think that the OP might be very young - a teen.  Their argumentative and sometimes snarky interaction, refusal to hear other points of view, and mainly, firmly taking a stance that they're RIGHT and that they will be the first to break down a barrier and do it "their way"  - all seem to fit.  Besides the fact that this tampon scandal took place in her bf's parents' car.  

It would be great if a young teen could avoid making the same mistakes that others made simply because others are explaining the facts - but it rarely works out that way.

You seem very confident in your grasp of things most people spend their entire lives trying to understand. Higher confidence is correlated with lower competence.

Did you think the way you're articulating yourself may be why I've had a certain reaction to your contributions in contrast to some other posters? 

I haven't been argumentative, I just over intellectualize. It's how I process ideas before they become internalized. You may be threatened by dialogue. Musing about something said by someone isn't the same as rejecting it, although I understand how one could feel that way. I've stood up for myself when warranted here and there. The rest I see from everyone is well intentioned, thoughtful discussion. 

Since I've actually mentioned or given clues to my age here a few times, you aren't reading my posts enough to make an assessment of my personality or you are aware I'm not a teen and are using that as an insult. I'm not going to be agreeable when someone uses those types of tactics. 

 

[Cian_Symbol]

1 minute ago, boltnrun said:

Why is your self esteem low, why do you no longer have a "busy lifestyle" and why don't you still have lots of friends?

I was cheated on by my toxic ex and while it made me feel pretty terrible DURING the relationship it certainly didn't damage my self-esteem after it was over.  I continued seeing friends and I was just as busy with work and activities as I always had been.  I'd be g*ddamned if I was going to let that guy destroy me.

Yeah I think it was having a few betrayals in a row. I developed a chronic physical disability in my 20s so I lost a lot of connections then. I dont have a work place with coworkers. The ways I have access to make friends leads to more toxic choices and I'd rather be alone than have a lot of these people around me, I just dont have patience. I was doing well before this relationship and was going out a lot to groups and meeting people but now I have constant anxiety and struggle to enjoy most things. I am profoundly unhappy. Socializing is extremely difficult physically and mentally. When I get triggered like the vegas thing I'm not capable of holding a conversation.

[boltnrun]

And that was what made me realize my relationship was toxic.  I didn't feel like myself.  I thought getting him to love me would make it all better.  It wasn't until the relationship was over that I realized the relationship was CAUSING my issues.  "Getting" him to love me wasn't the solution, quite the opposite.  I can't even describe how absolutely freeing that realization was.

I didn't get it right immediately, BTW.  I was still doing things that were bad for me.  I actually went to the extreme of moving 400 miles away so it was no longer possible to do late night or early morning drive bys or visit his family and friends looking for signs his new relationship was failing.  And once I was gone it was like a huge weight was lifted.  And I could finally SEE.  The noise inside my head that had been telling me the only answer was to lure him back to me was silenced.  It was such a wonderful feeling.

Like my signature line says, the cause of the pain is NEVER the cure for the pain.

[Cian_Symbol]

2 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

And that was what made me realize my relationship was toxic.  I didn't feel like myself.  I thought getting him to love me would make it all better.  It wasn't until the relationship was over that I realized the relationship was CAUSING my issues.  "Getting" him to love me wasn't the solution, quite the opposite.  I can't even describe how absolutely freeing that realization was.

I didn't get it right immediately, BTW.  I was still doing things that were bad for me.  I actually went to the extreme of moving 400 miles away so it was no longer possible to do late night or early morning drive bys or visit his family and friends looking for signs his new relationship was failing.  And once I was gone it was like a huge weight was lifted.  And I could finally SEE.  The noise inside my head that had been telling me the only answer was to lure him back to me was silenced.  It was such a wonderful feeling.

Like my signature line says, the cause of the pain is NEVER the cure for the pain.

🙂 it makes my heart sing to hear stories like that. I guess sometimes you gotta make an executive decision to trick your future self into not doing something coocoo lol that's a pretty big decision to make. 

I don't think I'll ever forget how eventually with my abuser I found happiness and comfort alone. So I still know if things don't work out, I'll be ok. The pain won't last forever. Maybe that's why I have such a strong urge to leave.

[yogacat]

11 hours ago, Cian_Symbol said:

Yeah, good point. I do think a couple people here are over pathologizing me though. A few commenters aren't very sensitive in their approaches. 

Don't worry, staying and doing surveillance for a meaningful amount of time isn't going to happen. I'm never doing that again. Thats why i said i didnt want to enmesh lives without full unconditional trust. I thought the receipt thing might have been legitimate. Folks don't seem to think so so that's the end of that.

 

So going to tough decision territory, correct? 

Tough decision territory indeed, I was thinking "Ok there are inconsistencies but there isn't really a resolution here" and, you could ask a simple question about the receipt. But is the real reason to get out that you know fundamentally you do not share the same values to do anything about it?

This is something he just had in the glove compartment, not photos and videos, condoms and other receipts. And this photo in your mind of the 'tampon' is not insurance you're going to be cheated on or not, no matter what. We can have these all we want.

This is just something you saw, and you sound like you felt afraid to talk to anyone about it. 

I know you kind of want the point to prove he's lying, which will make it easy, you won't have to ask which practice to use. But you're not doing this in isolation. You're choosing between staying with a person who makes you feel vulnerable/insecure like you two deserve separate beds because it's not a good one.

It's probably not that you are manifesting a specter of mistrust. The thing is, if you are not suffering some kind of separate flashback, something is relevant to this particular, but bigger extremely controlling and, a stack of wanted bones which you never were, digging the trench to bury yourself deeper in.

This doesn't strike me as primarily about investigating the existence of the folks in the shadows so much as knowing that your boyfriend is NOT the person you can feel secure asking any question you might possibly come up with. And, maybe something shady is going on, and maybe it's nothing, but I think you know why you're afraid to simply ask a simple question.

He is NOT the right person to be with and even if his intentions are benign, that doesn't matter as much as the fact that he has failed to hear you and honour your feelings. The fact that you're still looking for inconsistencies when you have the receipts in hand, indicates that you want to believe your worst fears.

Yes, I'll encourage you.  

Look at the number one thing you need answered right now. It's not "Did you cheat on me."...

It's "Were you aware that I had asked you not to send me anything that glorifies or makes light of the sex industry, given my trauma and past abuse?" As someone who has had to have hard conversations before be honest and kind and don't bring up past fights when you ask, but give him both your concerns and some context so he believes you are simply standing up for yourself and your needs. And, if he continues to evade and invalidate you, then you know where you stand.

Please ask yourself where you feel most comfortable and what would make you feel able to share this and move on.

[boltnrun]

2 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

🙂 it makes my heart sing to hear stories like that. I guess sometimes you gotta make an executive decision to trick your future self into not doing something coocoo lol that's a pretty big decision to make. 

I don't think I'll ever forget how eventually with my abuser I found happiness and comfort alone. So I still know if things don't work out, I'll be ok. The pain won't last forever. Maybe that's why I have such a strong urge to leave.

I ended up moving back after several years, BTW.  I missed my family too much.  Do you know how many times I've contacted him since I got back? Zero.  Zilch.  I don't want or need toxicity in my life.

[Cian_Symbol]

14 minutes ago, yogacat said:

But is the real reason to get out that you know fundamentally you do not share the same values to do anything about it?

I did tell him a bit ago that I saw signs we had incompatible values and potential conflict seemed in our future and he agreed we should end things. But I caved and said I'd still like to get to know him better but we need to slow down, which he also agreed with. We quickly fell back into the same dynamic though and I feel like he was largely the one initiating that. 

17 minutes ago, yogacat said:

I know you kind of want the point to prove he's lying, which will make it easy, you won't have to ask which practice to use. But you're not doing this in isolation. You're choosing between staying with a person who makes you feel vulnerable/insecure like you two deserve separate beds because it's not a good one.

🙂 yes my eagerness about the receipt may be caused by my desire for relief/to escape a vulnerable position.

20 minutes ago, yogacat said:

This doesn't strike me as primarily about investigating the existence of the folks in the shadows so much as knowing that your boyfriend is NOT the person you can feel secure asking any question you might possibly come up with. And, maybe something shady is going on, and maybe it's nothing, but I think you know why you're afraid to simply ask a simple question.

Because, based on what my partner has expressed he values, I feel my value to him is primarily that I am an object of enjoyment and entertainment and there's a threshold where I go from "fun object" to "nuisance" and that my neediness about things like sensitivity and what not clash with his value that "political correctness" as he defines it is fundamentally bad and spoiling the fun.

24 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Look at the number one thing you need answered right now. It's not "Did you cheat on me."...

It's "Were you aware that I had asked you not to send me anything that glorifies or makes light of the sex industry, given my trauma and past abuse?" As someone who has had to have hard conversations before be honest and kind and don't bring up past fights when you ask, but give him both your concerns and some context so he believes you are simply standing up for yourself and your needs. And, if he continues to evade and invalidate you, then you know where you stand.

Please ask yourself where you feel most comfortable and what would make you feel able to share this and move on.

How you wrote it here was how it was written to him. I asked what he remembered us talking about, and he confirmed he did. I then said I don't know what more I could have done because I thought I effectively communicated. I even said I don't know if it's even reasonable for me to expect him to navigate my sensitivities. 

He has said he would avoid triggers and he seems to be doing so...but again he was already asked to not do that before this event. I am uneasy because I do not know how long it will last. And the episode it triggered is not over and has significantly impacted my life. 

So maybe I need to decide if I want to just give him an opportunity to "mess up" like that again and how likely it is to happen...I already know the answer to that 😕 

I kinda wish he and I could just be more casual again. I can take a little tension every week but not every day. But I know he wants a serious thing where we move in together. The thought of not being able to be alone when he triggers me too is so stressful. 

 

Yeah, I can't even give him what *he* wants.

[Tinydance]

4 hours ago, Cian_Symbol said:

You seem very confident in your grasp of things most people spend their entire lives trying to understand. Higher confidence is correlated with lower competence.

Did you think the way you're articulating yourself may be why I've had a certain reaction to your contributions in contrast to some other posters? 

I haven't been argumentative, I just over intellectualize. It's how I process ideas before they become internalized. You may be threatened by dialogue. Musing about something said by someone isn't the same as rejecting it, although I understand how one could feel that way. I've stood up for myself when warranted here and there. The rest I see from everyone is well intentioned, thoughtful discussion. 

Since I've actually mentioned or given clues to my age here a few times, you aren't reading my posts enough to make an assessment of my personality or you are aware I'm not a teen and are using that as an insult. I'm not going to be agreeable when someone uses those types of tactics. 

 

I don't understand though why you're just giving "clues" about your age or why you didn't want to answer simple questions like "How long have you been together?" You asked for advice but then you made it very clear that you won't be responding to particular questions because...why, you just don't feel like it? I think the question of how long you had been together was really important to be able to understand what kind of advice to give. For example, if you'd been together for two years is very different if you'd been together for two months.

If you have a bad feeling about this guy, it's YOUR feeling so you're allowed not to be with him. I just find a lot of comments you made where you seem very dead set on viewing everything through the lens that someone is a cheater, abuser and liar. And attempts made by me to suggest anything else has been responded to with yes, snark as Jaunty said. And there's something about the way you keep responding and rationalising is exhausting. You just keep going around and around in circles. And you do think you're right so I don't really see why you actually ask for advice. If you're right just do what you want.

[Cian_Symbol]

18 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

I don't understand though why you're just giving "clues" about your age or why you didn't want to answer simple questions like "How long have you been together?" You asked for advice but then you made it very clear that you won't be responding to particular questions because...why, you just don't feel like it? I think the question of how long you had been together was really important to be able to understand what kind of advice to give. For example, if you'd been together for two years is very different if you'd been together for two months.

If you have a bad feeling about this guy, it's YOUR feeling so you're allowed not to be with him. I just find a lot of comments you made where you seem very dead set on viewing everything through the lens that someone is a cheater, abuser and liar. And attempts made by me to suggest anything else has been responded to with yes, spark as Jaunty said. And there's something about the way you keep responding and rationalising is exhausting. You just keep going around and around in circles. And you do thing you're right so I don't really see why you actually ask for advice. If you're right just do what you want.

I don't think that's accurate based on my other responses. I've conceded and agreed to do things based on other comments. I overexplain as an anxiety thing but again I understand why you have that perception. I see us as having all been circling around but I'm fine with me doing it more.

If that's how you feel and it's bothering you, let's bring it to a close 🙂

I've made a couple comments many pages back trying to bring it to a conclusion so that's fine. 

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

3 hours ago, Cian_Symbol said:

What's going on with my body and the situation you're observing is definitely a pattern. I get emotionally trapped in relationships and my body tells me I need to pay attention and get out. It's similar to relationship ocd

That’s where you have to figure out (a) is there a legitimate reason you’re feeling like this; and I don’t mean through means of investigation, or (b) is there really nothing to be triggering these feelings in you and you’re body is going into overdrive at innocent things that resemble traumatic moments of your past 

 

bottom line is: if your partner refuses to talk to you be transparent that is reason to leave!

[Jaunty]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

I don't understand though why you're just giving "clues" about your age or why you didn't want to answer simple questions like "How long have you been together?"

Yet, other things, which could actually reveal someone's identity, are shared in very specific detail; for example: 

Quote

he is going on another trip to Japan and said he is shaving his body in case he goes to a bath house. He's going with a newly single friend who drinks heavily and very sociable when doing so.

But "how long have you been together" is too personal?   Sort of makes it seem like our collective chains may be being pulled a little.  

[Cian_Symbol]

17 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Yet, other things, which could actually reveal someone's identity, are shared in very specific detail; for example: 

But "how long have you been together" is too personal?   Sort of makes it seem like our collective chains may be being pulled a little.  

Yeah that's why I said screw it. I mean it's simple. I had an intent to be careful, I thought more info was desired/would be helpful,  then changed my mind but forgot about the how long have you been dating question.

At this point I just don't want to drag it on for you guys. It's been under 8 months for the relationship.

Should I have stuck to my original intent and not shared that? Crap. I kinda regret talking about this at all here thee details about who I am are pretty specific. 😕