ADVICE! Tampon receipt passenger side of boyfriend's car

[rainbowsandroses]

13 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

...You're willfully ignoring what I'm saying to you and putting words in my mouth 😕 I think you know none of them said that.

My responses are based on what you yourself have posted. 

Rather than attack me for "willfully ignoring" and responding defensively, perhaps consider that you may not be articulating yourself properly for easy understanding because there's been quite a bit of confusion on this thread not just be me. 

I've tried to help, clearly I'm not. 

I'm out, ciao. 

 

 

 

[Cian_Symbol]

41 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I am utterly disheartened that they ALL recommend NOT communicating with your partner, asking questions when confused for a better understanding, and approving of your method - playing detective, checking receipts, credit card numbers, etc.

Do they also recommend checking his phone periodically (behind his back) to determine if he's been texting/sexting other women?

This isn't helpful and I absolutely didn't say this and you know my therapists didn't say this. There's only so many times I can clarify.

[rainbowsandroses]

11 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

This isn't helpful and I absolutely didn't say this and you know my therapists didn't say this. 

The last paragraph no, but the first was MY interpretation of what YOU posted. 

If I got it wrong I apologize and ask that you respond by clarifying in a respectful way.

NOT by accusing me of "knowing" that's not what your therapists said.  Or "willfully ignoring."

I "know" of no such thing, again my posts are based on what YOU post.  And my interpretation thereof. 

Is this how you communicate with your boyfriend as well?  Accusatory, defensively?  Rudely?  

Not accusing, just ASKING.

Because IF it is, it's no wonder he reacts so defensively.

We are all here trying to help you!!

Please consider how your words and how you express yourself are perceived by others. 

 

[Cian_Symbol]

17 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Do you honestly feel you are fine with having a relationship with someone you believe cheats on you? You don't feel cheating is something you should have a "huge focus" on?

If that's true, and you honestly don't care if the person you're in love with cheats on you, then I guess I don't understand why you would even care who he bought tampons for. 

Or are you trying to convince yourself you are fine with sharing your emotions and your body with someone who shares those things with other women? How others choose to deal with knowing the person they love cheats on them is irrelevant. 

Oh, I am saying how maybe I want to be, not how I am.

No, I am very unhappy atm. But I'm also not ok with losing someone who could make me happier than I would be alone or abandoning them because of unjustified paranoia. But I don't believe at this point it's unjustified otherwise I wouldn't have made the post. But I understand some people don't believe cheating justifies any sort of "detective work". 

I do think it's OK to have a huge focus on cheating, like as in it is understandable, but I personally admire people who are able to just think to themselves "I suspect this person is a cheater" or even discover cheating but not be emotionally tortured by it. 

I'm trying to convince myself it's not the end of the world if he is cheating and therefore I can wait patiently for more evidence to present itself organically and function under the assumption he's trustworthy, because thats ethically the better thing for me to do, rather than scrambling for a way out and being secretly upset by stuff he says I perceive as cover stories.

 

[boltnrun]

11 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

I personally admire people who are able to just think to themselves "I suspect this person is a cheater" or even discover cheating but not be emotionally tortured by it. 

I doubt they're just fine with their partners cheating on them. They would probably just rather be with a cheater than be single. Which I think is a sad way to live.

Again, I know this because I tried to convince myself it wasn't all that important that my ex cheated. I told myself "I'm the 'primary', he travels with me, he spends every weekend with me, his parents and siblings know and love me, that's all that matters." But I was lying to myself. I felt humiliated, degraded and low. I felt terrible about myself. I had constant anxiety. It only went away after he dumped me (yes, HE dumped ME for one of the women he was cheating with). 

I hope you don't decide to try to be "fine" with the man you love being intimately involved with other women. If in fact he is. 

[Cian_Symbol]

5 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

The last paragraph no, but the first was MY interpretation of what YOU posted. 

If I got it wrong I apologize and ask that you respond by clarifying in a respectful way.

NOT by accusing me of "knowing" that's not what your therapists said.  Or "willfully ignoring."

I "know" of no such thing, again my posts are based on what YOU post.  And my interpretation thereof. 

Is this how you communicate with your boyfriend as well?  Accusatory, defensively?  Rudely?  

Not accusing, just ASKING.

Because IF it is, it's no wonder he reacts so defensively.

We are all here trying to help you!!

Please consider how your words and how you express yourself are perceived by others. 

 

If that eas your intent you could have prefaced it as "this is how it is coming off".

 

I've repeatedly clarified, because of my tendency to often consider my words and how they are expressed. That is part of the mechanism that keeps me from communicating after a few failed attempts. I have demonstrated here I am capable of sympathizing with people's interpretation of my words and have repeatedly clarified. The answers to your questions (which are in themselves accusatory in their implication) were contained in previous responses. No, it has not been the nature of my questions that has caused defensiveness. That is akin to DARVO. As stated previously, often they aren't even related to any suspicions but mere attempts at making conversation. 

I'm quite confident in my ability to communicate. 

 

[Cian_Symbol]

11 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I doubt they're just fine with their partners cheating on them. They would probably just rather be with a cheater than be single. Which I think is a sad way to live.

Again, I know this because I tried to convince myself it wasn't all that important that my ex cheated. I told myself "I'm the 'primary', he travels with me, he spends every weekend with me, his parents and siblings know and love me, that's all that matters." But I was lying to myself. I felt humiliated, degraded and low. I felt terrible about myself. I had constant anxiety. It only went away after he dumped me (yes, HE dumped ME for one of the women he was cheating with). 

I hope you don't decide to try to be "fine" with the man you love being intimately involved with other women. If in fact he is. 

I'm so sorry you went through that. It's horrible, traumatizing and isn't taken seriously enough, if you ask me. I've spoken to a lot of people who have been similarly hurt like you have and it's just awful.

 

Maybe you're right. But some seem to be like "men cheat, it's normal" and they can smile and have fun and be successful and I think why am I so weak?

I don't want what happened to me to occur again either. It's really hard to make a decision here because you don't want to make the same mistakes but you also don't want trauma to rule your life either. I do admit I am very confused.

I don't want to be fine with it. I tried to in the past just to get evidence of physical abuse with the last one but I only got control of my emotions when I fell out of love. My goal here is just to know I'll be ok *if* it happens and to leave when I know for certain. I was just saying if they can be ok with it, as in still hold a job and have friendships, than I should at least be ok with just sort of a vague sense I maybe can't fully trust someone. I don't want to get more enmeshed with someone to where I can't escape so my body is telling me I need to do something now. I'm not saying that's right or wrong. 

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, Cian_Symbol said:

This isn't helpful and I absolutely didn't say this and you know my therapists didn't say this. 

Cian, I apologize for missing this the other times and for misinterpreting (easy to do sometimes on forums like this), but would you clarify again what all your therapists agree on?

Again, my read on it was they agree that you should not ask him about the receipts (translation: communicating to seek understanding) because it somehow reflects poorly on you that you are insecure seeking reassurance and not able to regulate your emotions.

I know I read that somewhere on this thread, if it was not in the context of what your therapists advised, again I do apologize.

I have always had a lot of faith in the therapeutic process, therapy has helped me a lot over the years. 

So if you would clarify (once again) what you were referring to when saying "my therapists all agree," it would be much appreciated, thanks!!  😀

 

[Cian_Symbol]

31 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Cian, I apologize for missing this the other times and for misinterpreting (easy to do sometimes on forums like this), but would you clarify again what all your therapists agree on?

Again, my read on it was they agree that you should not ask him about the receipts (translation: communicating to seek understanding) because it somehow reflects poorly on you that you are insecure seeking reassurance and not able to regulate your emotions.

I know I read that somewhere on this thread, if it was not in the context of what your therapists advised, again I do apologize.

I have always had a lot of faith in the therapeutic process, therapy has helped me a lot over the years. 

So if you would clarify (once again) what you were referring to when saying "my therapists all agree," it would be much appreciated, thanks!!  😀

 

No problem 😊

1. I don't know who said what but that was a response to a few people saying you should trust folks until they give you reasons not to (who knows what that even means). 

What the communities and therapists all agree on, from my experience, is that you shouldn't trust people and have a sort of neutral stance toward them until they prove through their behaviour and reputations that they are trustworthy. But they have all specialized in cptsd/betrayal trauma/abuse syndrome and coach people who have been in highly abusive relationships. It just means don't be vulnerable and give people access to you where they can damage you until they show they have integrity. It doesn't refer to anything else. I thought I got to know him well enough. I did not. 

2. When you have a suspicion and you ask your partner about it, that is called checking behaviour. It feeds intrusive thoughts. The more you engage in the self soothing behaviour, the stronger your intrusive thoughts and the compulsive actions become. That's what I meant where a therapist may tell you not to ask your partner about things. The tone of which you ask the question isn't important when it comes to checking behaviour. It's similar to ocd where you have to interrupt the compulsive actions in order to decrease the thoughts. People with ocd (I dont have ocd but it's a similar process) have an intrusive thought "what if I forgot the stove was on" and then they "check" it 10 times to relieve their anxiety.  The treatment for that is to not check the stove. It's not to "check the stove in a calm, non accusatory way" lol. The problem is the checking and what it does for your brain when you have anxiety. It has nothing to do with an unwillingness to communicate.

I have communicated I *in general* am struggling to trust him, said what things have triggered my feelings and that there is a base of trauma but haven't regularly (yet) asked him about specific things. He probably believes I have though, but I was just making conversation. Which is frustrating for me because I'm not passive aggressive and it makes me look guilty and now I hesitate to ask him what he did with his day.


I've already said that so it's frustrating how a couple folks (not you) have doubled down on the whole "you're exhausting him and no wonder he's defensive". If you say you have trust issues you can't even breath without it being an accusation lol

I can communicate I'm having issues with trust but what I can't do is engage in checking behaviour unless hypothetically I really think I'm going to find something. The receipt thing is the first legitimate checking behaviour I've done except for asking who someone was on snapchat. You shouldn't do checking behaviour to feel better or to "read" their responses. I'm not psychic.

You maybe can do checking behaviour if you really think they are cheating and you're going to find evidence because that's defending yourself against psychological abuse. But that's a philosophical thing. Some experts say snooping is fine and defending yourself from psychological abuse. But only if it's justified but who knows it is until you find something.

I don't agree that the receipt is a trivial thing for me to find it's just not enough to justify the amount of checking behaviour.

So to clarify again,  I would say my therapist probably would not support me doing any checking behaviours whether it's asking him questions, no matter how I approach it, OR looking to see if his credit card matches the receipt when he pulls it out. But a lot of therapists admit they can't do much because they dont have all the info and there aren't good answers to things. They mostly just focus on treating your anxiety and helping you with your own goals.

 

Sorry for the length it's ok if you didn't read it all 

[rainbowsandroses]

45 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

Sorry for the length it's ok if you didn't read it all 

I DID read it all actually and found it interesting, even a bit fascinating.  I think the disconnect (for me) was this:

45 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

But they [therapists] have all specialized in cptsd/betrayal trauma/abuse syndrome and coach people who have been in highly abusive relationships.

The therapists I have seen did not specialize in betrayal/trauma/abuse syndrome and so perhaps their approach to counseling was/is different from the therapy I have received.

I don't know I am just speculating....  but possibly.

I DO agree that you should not trust strangers or those you don't have a good sense of who they are, that's just basic common sense imo.  My parents taught me that.

I also agree that it takes months, even years sometimes to know someone's true colors.  If at all.  I am not sure if we EVER can know someone 100%, we are all growing and changing so it's a constant "work in progress" learning and growing individually and together, evolving.

But their character, their values, their integrity?  For me I have always been able to get a good sense of that after spending time with them in different situations, by observing their actions and yes also by asking questions, having them ask me questions, being open and communicating etc.

Just getting to know you type questions, nothing intrusive. And being open and sharing about ourselves.  I try to stay away from anything negative or past trauma, I work that out on my own and/or with my therapist.   Or good female friends I have known for some time and trust.

Mainly it's spending time with a new man and observing how he interacts with me and others and how he perceives the world in general.

That is how I develop trust.  If after observing a few months (give or take) I am unable to trust him, I DO not enter into a relationship with him.  Period end of. 

Just me but I wouldn't function well in a relationship where there is no trust, I couldn't do it and frankly wouldn't to.  That would only exacerbate my anxiety, not soothe it.

Has my trust been betrayed?  You bet ya!  And when that happens, I get up, shake that shyt off and carry on.  

I am not perfect, but one thing I am is resilient and I don't hold on to negative ****.  I work through it, hopefully before entering into a new relationship, but have not always been successful with that.

Anyway, thank you for clarifying, again it was quite interesting!  I don't agree with it all but that's okay, if you find it valuable and it's helping you heal and move on from your past traumas and understand your boyfriend and relationship better, that is all that matters!  

[yogacat]

5 hours ago, Cian_Symbol said:

Lol some of you guys are making a lot of assumptions off of very little and being pretty judgy and dismissive. Which is ironic.

It's ironic that your making the same assumptions about your boyfriend that you're accusing us of making.

It's upsetting to hear that you have been treated poorly in your other relationships and that the men you were involved with made the terrible decision to be unfaithful. I totally understand how this can affect your trust in a relationship. 

You say you don't want to burden your boyfriend with these suspicions, but you're not adding to your side by being resentful and not expressing your feelings. You can't keep score, resentment built up and not be acting as a good partner while expecting others to know something is up.

Because you went through all the trouble of checking receipts, now you have this information and you don't know what to do with it. 

Honestly, the fact that you're asking internet strangers for their advice shows that you don't trust your own judgement and intuition. You're trying to find an outside source to validate your suspicion or to tell you what to do next.

[Cian_Symbol]

34 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I DID read it all actually and found it interesting, even a bit fascinating.  I think the disconnect (for me) was this:

The therapists I have seen did not specialize in betrayal/trauma/abuse syndrome and so perhaps their approach to counseling was/is different from the therapy I have received.

I don't know I am just speculating....  but possibly.

I DO agree that you should not trust strangers or those you don't have a good sense of who they are, that's just basic common sense imo.  My parents taught me that.

I also agree that it takes months, even years sometimes to know someone's true colors.  If at all.  I am not sure if we EVER can know someone 100%, we are all growing and changing so it's a constant "work in progress" learning and growing individually and together, evolving.

But their character, their values, their integrity?  For me I have always been able to get a good sense of that after spending time with them in different situations, by observing their actions and yes also by asking questions, having them ask me questions, being open and communicating etc.

Just getting to know you type questions, nothing intrusive. And being open and sharing about ourselves.  I try to stay away from anything negative or past trauma, I work that out on my own and/or with my therapist.   Or good female friends I have known for some time and trust.

Mainly it's spending time with a new man and observing how he interacts with me and others and how he perceives the world in general.

That is how I develop trust.  If after observing a few months (give or take) I am unable to trust him, I DO not enter into a relationship with him.  Period end of. 

Just me but I wouldn't function well in a relationship where there is no trust, I couldn't do it and frankly wouldn't to.  That would only exacerbate my anxiety, not soothe it.

Has my trust been betrayed?  You bet ya!  And when that happens, I get up, shake that shyt off and carry on.  

I am not perfect, but one thing I am is resilient and I don't hold on to negative ****.  I work through it, hopefully before entering into a new relationship, but have not always been successful with that.

Anyway, thank you for clarifying, again it was quite interesting!  I don't agree with it all but that's okay, if you find it valuable and it's helping you heal and move on from your past traumas and understand your boyfriend and relationship better, that is all that matters!  

Lovely read as well, thank you for sharing that with me.

Yeah, I think they just see so much awful behavior in their practice.

I think you and I do more or less agree about the proper way to go about things up to the more current events. 

 

Edit: and I hope you continue to improve yourself,  your life and your relationships 🫂

33 minutes ago, yogacat said:

It's ironic that your making the same assumptions about your boyfriend that you're accusing us of making.

It's upsetting to hear that you have been treated poorly in your other relationships and that the men you were involved with made the terrible decision to be unfaithful. I totally understand how this can affect your trust in a relationship. 

You say you don't want to burden your boyfriend with these suspicions, but you're not adding to your side by being resentful and not expressing your feelings. You can't keep score, resentment built up and not be acting as a good partner while expecting others to know something is up.

Because you went through all the trouble of checking receipts, now you have this information and you don't know what to do with it. 

Honestly, the fact that you're asking internet strangers for their advice shows that you don't trust your own judgement and intuition. You're trying to find an outside source to validate your suspicion or to tell you what to do next.

Re irony, yes that's why I said it was ironic. Except I actually know the guy and I'm not saying he's exhausting or the common denominator saying he garbage at relationships like the folks I was referring to. 

But everything else is very true. I don't know if resentful is a good word for it though. I guess I resent my former dating partners for making me hypersensitive more than anything.

 

But again we are presuming this is projection from a previous relationship, when all these same suspicions were present at the start of that one as well despite me never having been cheated on (to my knowledge) before. And my feelings were very correct then and I paid a huge price for thinking it was paranoia.  So yes, I don't know what's what. That's why I want physical evidence of either infidelity or that I'm coocoo. Because it changes the course of action I take drastically. 

 

 

Let's follow the stove analogy for cheating.

 

It isn't unreasonable to be anxious if you believe you left the stove on and check it once. It's the other 9 times. But some folks here seem to think you should assume the stove is off until you have already had some kind of fire...That all stoves should be presumed off until proven otherwise, while never actually looking to check once lol.

 

When it's cheating, it's not like a stove where you can see it's off and have reasons to believe your conclusion is correct. There's a reason the phrase "if there's smoke, there's fire" exists. 

 

I smell smoke and I'm checking that the stove is off.

 

Now imagine if your eyesight and therefore ability to see if the stove is off is compromised. Do you walk away and trust that it's off or do you check it those 9 times because "I don't see so good"? A few people here have suggested I get my eyes checked by a specialist, metaphorically. Thing is my eyesight seems to be pretty good. This particular stove is just difficult to read.

 

And what if your house had been previously burned down by a difficult to read stove? 

 

And if you smell smoke all the time but there's no fire, and you cant tell if the stove is off...you can't expect someone to relax and feel safe. So do you throw away the stove entirely because you can't trust your ability to tell if it's off because the stress isn't worth it?

 

Best thing to me seems is to either remove all your precious belongings so if there is a fire you won't lose everything or...get a new stove you feel confident is off.

 

 

It's NOT to tell yourself you don't know how to read stoves aka "you're the common denominator, get therapy"

 

Edit: but it's a mixed bag when you ask people for advice on the internet, so it's OK. 

[yogacat]

8 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

Re irony, yes that's why I said it was ironic. Except I actually know the guy and I'm not saying he's exhausting or the common denominator saying he garbage at relationships like the folks I was referring to. 

But everything else is very true. I don't know if resentful is a good word for it though. I guess I resent my former dating partners for making me hypersensitive more than anything.

 

But again we are presuming this is projection from a previous relationship, when all these same suspicions were present at the start of that one as well despite me never having been cheated on (to my knowledge) before. And my feelings were very correct then and I paid a huge price for thinking it was paranoia.  So yes, I don't know what's what. That's why I want physical evidence of either infidelity or that I'm coocoo. Because it changes the course of action I take drastically. 

 

 

Let's follow the stove analogy for cheating.

 

It isn't unreasonable to be anxious if you believe you left the stove on and check it once. It's the other 9 times. But some folks here seem to think you should assume the stove is off until you have already had some kind of fire...That all stoves should be presumed off until proven otherwise, while never actually looking to check once lol.

 

When it's cheating, it's not like a stove where you can see it's off and have reasons to believe your conclusion is correct. There's a reason the phrase "if there's smoke, there's fire" exists. 

 

I smell smoke and I'm checking that the stove is off.

 

Now imagine if your eyesight and therefore ability to see if the stove is off is compromised. Do you walk away and trust that it's off or do you check it those 9 times because "I don't see so good"? A few people here have suggested I get my eyes checked by a specialist, metaphorically. Thing is my eyesight seems to be pretty good. This particular stove is just difficult to read.

 

And what if your house had been previously burned down by a difficult to read stove? 

 

And if you smell smoke all the time but there's no fire, and you cant tell if the stove is off...you can't expect someone to relax and feel safe. So do you throw away the stove entirely because you can't trust your ability to tell if it's off because the stress isn't worth it?

 

Best thing to me seems is to either remove all your precious belongings so if there is a fire you won't lose everything or...get a new stove you feel confident is off.

 

 

It's NOT to tell yourself you don't know how to read stoves aka "you're the common denominator, get therapy"

 

Edit: but it's a mixed bag when you ask people for advice on the internet, so it's OK. 

Frankly, I can't fathom a boyfriend ever finding something like a male jock/pads/etc receipt. Then again, I'll be driving around my 80 year old father soon and, I don't know, he might leave behind 3-4 different sized adult diapers - not seem weird in the first place. I'm not saying it's impossible but... 

I would like to clarify that I am not making any assumptions about your boyfriend.

My advice is solely based on the information you have provided. It is up to you to trust your instincts and make the decision to confront your boyfriend or not. If you truly have a strong suspicion that your boyfriend is cheating on you, just be sure to have concrete evidence before starting a confrontation. 

[Cian_Symbol]

Just now, yogacat said:

Frankly, I can't fathom a boyfriend ever finding something like a male jock/pads/etc receipt. Then again, I'll be driving around my 80 year old father soon and, I don't know, he might leave behind 3-4 different sized adult diapers - not seem weird in the first place. I'm not saying it's impossible but... 

I would like to clarify that I am not making any assumptions about your boyfriend.

My advice is solely based on the information you have provided. It is up to you to trust your instincts and make the decision to confront your boyfriend or not. If you truly have a strong suspicion that your boyfriend is cheating on you, just be sure to have concrete evidence before starting a confrontation. 

They were Tampax tampons but like I said he could have just given his parents a ride. 

If I have strong evidence there won't be a confrontation, I would just leave with my evidence. There's no closure and it just serves my ego to confront. 

That all seems reasonable. But again there seems to be an objection to even looking passively at things. So unless they literally bone in front of me, I'm not sure how you'd get concrete evidence. You're right, I guess I just have to do what I can on my end to make myself feel better.

 

I had to do a lot of actual sloothing to prove my ex cheated with prostitutes. So to me the reaction to just reading things in the open is weird. Since infidelity rates are like 1 in 5 I'm gonna guess a lot of people are getting cheated on and have no clue <_<

[Jaunty]

The idea that a person needs EVIDENCE to break up is out there.   Simply being in a relationship that involves mystery tampons at this level is ... quite sick.

You can believe this:  if this guy is NOT cheating on you and he gets wise to the fact that you are sneaking around collecting receipts and memorizing PIN and bank account numbers of his and his family members - he will be out of there with his hair on fire as fast as he can run - ultimately,  to a woman who won't be treating him like a criminal.  

Of course, this is assuming that he's a regular guy with some self respect.  This may not be the case.  But people who do have a healthy self image will not be down with your program of treating them  as liars & cheaters just because. 

This is a "YOU" problem.  You are too insecure and probably immature to be in a relationship.   Why don't you build up your self confidence.   It feels good to be in a place where no spying is ever necessary because, if we are feeling that way, that's enough - time to move on.   

[boltnrun]

When I was in the wrong relationship with the wrong man I felt as you do. When I was in a good, healthy relationship I didn't feel that way.

I think what you're struggling with is how to determine if he is in fact a lying, shady gaslighter or if it's just your projection. However, you say you're usually right whenever you have suspicions, so...

I just hated living that way. And I've decided to never live that way again because it's bad for my mental health. 

[Cian_Symbol]

18 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

The idea that a person needs EVIDENCE to break up is out there.   Simply being in a relationship that involves mystery tampons at this level is ... quite sick.

You can believe this:  if this guy is NOT cheating on you and he gets wise to the fact that you are sneaking around collecting receipts and memorizing PIN and bank account numbers of his and his family members - he will be out of there with his hair on fire as fast as he can run - ultimately,  to a woman who won't be treating him like a criminal.  

Of course, this is assuming that he's a regular guy with some self respect.  This may not be the case.  But people who do have a healthy self image will not be down with your program of treating them  as liars & cheaters just because. 

This is a "YOU" problem.  You are too insecure and probably immature to be in a relationship.   Why don't you build up your self confidence.   It feels good to be in a place where no spying is ever necessary because, if we are feeling that way, that's enough - time to move on.   

Your interpretation of my behaviour is hyperbolic. I looked at two receipts, one left at my feet and only because I thought it was mine, and one left open on the counter. I read a card when it was brought out to pay for something. I hypothetically proposed what would need to be done, but I did not say I would do it and conceded that I won't. That is all. I overall have treated him well and have gotten good feedback from him. Edit: but it's my fault for not approaching the subject properly. I should have just left out that part and stuck to what has already occured.

 

Edit: I am *very* aware that if he's innocent he will definitely drop me so I wouldn't be thinking this over nothing. So I need a conclusion whatever it is asap.

And my therapists have a much more nuanced opinion of what my contribution is. 

"Why don't you build up your self confidence" actual good advice.

[Cian_Symbol]

4 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

When I was in the wrong relationship with the wrong man I felt as you do. When I was in a good, healthy relationship I didn't feel that way.

I think what you're struggling with is how to determine if he is in fact a lying, shady gaslighter or if it's just your projection. However, you say you're usually right whenever you have suspicions, so...

I just hated living that way. And I've decided to never live that way again because it's bad for my mental health. 

Thank you for being empathetic. I decided that too and thought I was doing it all right and I'm disappointed, mostly in myself. This helps validate my feelings and that if I have to walk away just because I can't do it that it's OK.

[yogacat]

1 hour ago, Cian_Symbol said:

They were Tampax tampons but like I said he could have just given his parents a ride. 

If I have strong evidence there won't be a confrontation, I would just leave with my evidence. There's no closure and it just serves my ego to confront. 

That all seems reasonable. But again there seems to be an objection to even looking passively at things. So unless they literally bone in front of me, I'm not sure how you'd get concrete evidence. You're right, I guess I just have to do what I can on my end to make myself feel better.

 

I had to do a lot of actual sloothing to prove my ex cheated with prostitutes. So to me the reaction to just reading things in the open is weird. Since infidelity rates are like 1 in 5 I'm gonna guess a lot of people are getting cheated on and have no clue

I'm just saying that this sort of stuff comes out 9/10 times. Look, for all you know, he could have given a co-worker a ride home or to the store on the way back after lunch, and they got feminine hygiene products. 

I'm sorry that you had to go through the pain of being cheated on in the past. But keeping yourself suspicious and constantly looking for evidence is just going to create more distrust and resentment.

You can't feel a certain way about what's going on and hope he's going to be reflective and admit to something he did wrong. You can't bury your feelings and act normal, then dump a folder of receipts and evidence on his lap expecting him to confess. 

I never said that you shouldn't keep an eye out for any red flags, but constantly snooping and being paranoid will only serve to ruin your own mental health. It's like you've created this investigation in your head and you're determined to make it a reality, even if there's a possibility that you're wrong.

If your boyfriend is being shady and untrustworthy, it will eventually come to light. But obsessing over small things like a receipt for tampons is just going to drive you crazy. 

[Cian_Symbol]

14 minutes ago, yogacat said:

I'm just saying that this sort of stuff comes out 9/10 times. Look, for all you know, he could have given a co-worker a ride home or to the store on the way back after lunch, and they got feminine hygiene products. 

I'm sorry that you had to go through the pain of being cheated on in the past. But keeping yourself suspicious and constantly looking for evidence is just going to create more distrust and resentment.

You can't feel a certain way about what's going on and hope he's going to be reflective and admit to something he did wrong. You can't bury your feelings and act normal, then dump a folder of receipts and evidence on his lap expecting him to confess. 

I never said that you shouldn't keep an eye out for any red flags, but constantly snooping and being paranoid will only serve to  ruin your own mental health. It's like you've created this investigation in your head and you're determined to make it a reality, even if there's a possibility that you're wrong.

If your boyfriend is being shady and untrustworthy, it will eventually come to light. But obsessing over small things like a receipt for tampons is just going to drive you crazy. 

It was a holiday, he doesn't have a work place. 

Yeah I know all that stuff.

"constantly snooping" I just got into a car and looked down. Then when he paid for a thing I looked forward. I then looked down again on a counter. All that happened in less than 2 days and I overall functioned fine and enjoyed my time and acted normal. What's constant is the anxiety and belief he's messing around and I don't need to do a single second of snooping for that to be my reality.

But you're right it does make it worse to have that specific thing on my mind. Like I said, I'll make a note and forget about that specific thing and see if I can address the anxiety.

 

"I'm just saying that this sort of stuff comes out 9/10 times." Maybe like 20 years later when yall have kids. But none of the exes of the people I've discovered knew they had cheated, or had been gaslit badly to doubt what they felt and were very grateful. Like whole ass double lives where they deceived people they lived with. It doesnt matter though, I don't have good reason to think that's happening here, just my "intuition". So, file it away, and forget it, work on myself. 

[Cian_Symbol]

Ok screw it. 

So this whole thing really started when he went away for a bachelor trip to Vegas. 

He was drunk/high and sent me photos of those escort cards and said his friend were collecting them. In general he makes a lot of escort/stripper jokes and in my subjective experience this is a red flag. Ive dated two people who cheated with sex workers. This was after I had explained to him a few times I've been sexually exploited as a teen (ive done a lot of charity work in the past with this) and* I have dated two sex buyers, who were both abusive. One who probably did it while with me. I was extremely nervous about his trip to Vegas for a bachelor but had been feeling good. But when he sent the photo of the escort card I instantly flipped inside. It triggered an anxiety episode that lasted for...well it's not completely over. I didn't tell him and acted normal until he got back and then I told him it triggered an episode. And that I was confused because I had communicated that that topic was a trigger for me. I even told him a story about someone telling me about their own trip and those cards and how it triggered me so it felt to me like, even if theres no cheating and a stupid mistake, it was a betrayal of trust because 1. Why did I tell him about my past, which I've only told a couple of people and 2. Why did I tell him all these instances where my trauma was triggered. 

 

To me I almost questioned if it was done to be cruel or an act of defiance because he's against "political correctness". 

It made me question my trust in him in all things because it was so easily predictable that doing that was a bad idea.

He didn't seem to really understand how that bothered me so much. 

And no other than saying it triggered an episode and saying I've been mentally unwell since then I haven't spoken about it again. I felt I was very tactful in how I told him my feelings. 

 

 

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, Cian_Symbol said:

Ok screw it. 

So this whole thing really started when he went away for a bachelor trip to Vegas. 

He was drunk/high and sent me photos of those escort cards and said his friend were collecting them. In general he makes a lot of escort/stripper jokes and in my subjective experience this is a red flag. Ive dated two people who cheated with sex workers. This was after I had explained to him a few times I've been sexually exploited as a teen (ive done a lot of charity work in the past with this) and* I have dated two sex buyers, who were both abusive. One who probably did it while with me. I was extremely nervous about his trip to Vegas for a bachelor but had been feeling good. But when he sent the photo of the escort card I instantly flipped inside. It triggered an anxiety episode that lasted for...well it's not completely over. I didn't tell him and acted normal until he got back and then I told him it triggered an episode. And that I was confused because I had communicated that that topic was a trigger for me. I even told him a story about someone telling me about their own trip and those cards and how it triggered me so it felt to me like, even if theres no cheating and a stupid mistake, it was a betrayal of trust because 1. Why did I tell him about my past, which I've only told a couple of people and 2. Why did I tell him all these instances where my trauma was triggered. 

 

To me I almost questioned if it was done to be cruel or an act of defiance because he's against "political correctness". 

It made me question my trust in him in all things because it was so easily predictable that doing that was a bad idea.

He didn't seem to really understand how that bothered me so much. 

And no other than saying it triggered an episode and saying I've been mentally unwell since then I haven't spoken about it again. I felt I was very tactful in how I told him my feelings. 

 

 

I would have been done unless it was some sort of mistake or a one time situation where he immediately apologized. He chose to get drunk and stoned and therefore he chose the consequences.  I'd be repulsed and I have no triggers you describe you have.  Why would he ever think a woman -his partner -would ever find that amusing or interesting? Oh and I kissed a male chippendales dancer at a bachelorette party - I was a teenager - in the 1980s - and no way would I have wanted a photo taken or dished about it with whoever I was dating (I think I did have a boyfriend -my high school sweetheart and yes he'd have been ok with my doing that -but -still!).  

I mean sure some couples would get turned on but he's just acting nasty when he knows that triggers you.

[boltnrun]

I guess my "trigger" is the use of the word "mistake" when something was clearly done deliberately. A mistake is grabbing the salt bowl when you meant to grab sugar for a recipe. Taking a photo and texting it to the person you intended to send it to is not a mistake. It would have been a mistake if he intended to send it to his brother or cousin, for example, but your name was at the top of his recent contacts. 

Did he apologize?

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I guess my "trigger" is the use of the word "mistake" when something was clearly done deliberately. A mistake is grabbing the salt bowl when you meant to grab sugar for a recipe. Taking a photo and texting it to the person you intended to send it to is not a mistake. It would have been a mistake if he intended to send it to his brother or cousin, for example, but your name was at the top of his recent contacts. 

Did he apologize?

That is what I meant by mistake -he meant to text it to his guy friend as a joke - and texted her.  I agree about trigger - and yes that is what I meant for sure.

[Cian_Symbol]

25 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I would have been done unless it was some sort of mistake or a one time situation where he immediately apologized. He chose to get drunk and stoned and therefore he chose the consequences.  I'd be repulsed and I have no triggers you describe you have.  

I don't mind the drinking and stuff. He may have been sober at that time.

I just think it's super messed up to send a photo of an escort card in your room and caption it "want an escort" to your gf who was basically trafficked, is super involved in charity for trafficking, is nervous about cheating with escorts and just had a relationship with someone who cheated with them and has asked you not make jokes about the sex industry.

 

Edit: dude i didnt even think he may have accidentslly sent it to me instead of his friend...great.

8 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I guess my "trigger" is the use of the word "mistake" when something was clearly done deliberately. A mistake is grabbing the salt bowl when you meant to grab sugar for a recipe. Taking a photo and texting it to the person you intended to send it to is not a mistake. It would have been a mistake if he intended to send it to his brother or cousin, for example, but your name was at the top of his recent contacts. 

Did he apologize?

No, he explained it. He said he would avoid triggers in the future and has been but he said that before this occured too. Then when it really mattered he dropped the ball. But he did not technically apologize. But changed behaviour is good but it may be too late. I'm on meds again as a direct result of this event. 

Edit: he is going on another trip to Japan and said he is shaving his body in case he goes to a bath house. He's going with a newly single friend who drinks heavily and very sociable when doing so. I am extremely nervous about this next trip and I find it hard to share in his excitement but I try.