Am I being gaslit by my bf (37M) or did he sacrifice it all to be w/ me (27F)?

[boltnrun]

So if he wants to DJ or be a photographer or something like that and those jobs are scarce or unavailable where you two currently live, does he plan to just not work?

If he lived on his own he would have to work, correct?  I just don't get the mindset that if you can't do exactly what you dream of doing you're just not going to work at all.

And I can't help but think his lack of work is wearing on his self esteem.  

At some point someone is going to have to say "no more". Something's got to give.

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Pumpkins said:

. He used to have a job, a place, friends, and some money

Why can't he just move back to where he was if he's this homesick depressed and lonely?  I don't think nagging him to get a minimum wage McJob is helping either of you. 

If you unload him and he went back to his "job, place, friends and money" you could pay off your loans and he would be a lot happier. 

I'm sorry but you're trying to make an impossible situation work but you're both just growing resentful and depressed and wearing each other down.  

[Pumpkins]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Why can't he just move back to where he was if he's this homesick depressed and lonely?  I don't think nagging him to get a minimum wage McJob is helping either of you. 

If you unload him and he went back to his "job, place, friends and money" you could pay off your loans and he would be a lot happier. 

I'm sorry but you're trying to make an impossible situation work but you're both just growing resentful and depressed and wearing each other down.  

He burned bridges with his old job so he cannot return.  If he returned home he would have to stay with his parents because he has no money in the bank anymore. 

[Pumpkins]

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

So if he wants to DJ or be a photographer or something like that and those jobs are scarce or unavailable where you two currently live, does he plan to just not work?

If he lived on his own he would have to work, correct?  I just don't get the mindset that if you can't do exactly what you dream of doing you're just not going to work at all.

And I can't help but think his lack of work is wearing on his self esteem.  

At some point someone is going to have to say "no more". Something's got to give.

This is why I’m frustrated. Yeah , you are right, if he was alone he would have to work any job to support himself. But when I bring that up he says that he wouldn’t have to work here in the middle of nowhere if I didnt match into residency here. 

[Pumpkins]

3 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Even so, it's still HIS decision.  All she can do (imo) is share with him that she simply cannot afford to support them both on her salary alone, and let him HIM make the decision.

IF he is still unwilling to take a lesser job until he finds one that suits him, then he will need to move out.  It's really that simple and that is how she should phrase it, again my opinion.

I don't think believing he is gaslighting her or being selfish or lazy or not fulfilling his role as a "man" will serve any good purpose NOT that @Pumpkins is doing that.

Again, a little empathy goes a long way here imho.

 

I think this is a very good way to phrase things. I did tell him recently that he would have to move out when the lease ends at our place if he didn’t have a job to contribute financially

[LootieTootie]

So it always confused me that if someone can't find a job, what is so wrong with just getting a job at McDonalds or for bagging groceries as a part-timer or being a Walmart greeter on the weekend so you can help a little with the finances? I mean it can be a downgrade for some people, but there's a lot of no-brain part-time jobs around. In college, I did a "front desk" weekend job at a senior facility just saying hi and bye to people. Brought home $400 a week. I think some people just don't want to hustle when they already getting handouts.

Saying that, when my husband (back then boyfriend) moved in with me, he was working all kinds of odd jobs. At least he was working but then he went to trade school, something we both agreed he should do, and I had to support us for awhile. But that was the plan so he could stop working at these dead end jobs. So yes, like any other couple, decisions were made and sacrifices were made. If your partner keeps throwing it in your face that they sacrificed so much for you, then they clearly lack perspective because relationship takes a lot of work from both sides to maintain and nourish. 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Pumpkins said:

If he returned home he would have to stay with his parents because he has no money in the bank anymore. 

That's ok. How did he respond to your asking him to leave if he doesn't get a job?

[Kwothe28]

4 hours ago, LootieTootie said:

So it always confused me that if someone can't find a job, what is so wrong with just getting a job at McDonalds or for bagging groceries as a part-timer or being a Walmart greeter on the weekend so you can help a little with the finances?

Depends how you look at it. You had "nice" remedial job behind the desk. Kind of work you would have at McDonalds, as well as people who are the customers, as well as people you work with, are maybe not worth the hustle. For example heard "Waffle House" works 24/7 and that you literally need martial arts degree there. There is a very famous clip of a woman worker there stopping the chair thrown at her with her bare hands. Imagine a customer throwing a chair at you lol

My friends girlfriend works in a bakery, even though she has a chemical masters. Very hard college but she cant get a job in her field in my town so she took the bakery job so she would at least work. She doesnt work with customers but her colleagues are all kinds of people(she works in production). So there is definitely a disparity. But I do agree there is nothing wrong with taking at least some job if you need to.

And that is where we come to OPs problem. Her boyfriend doesnt work because he doesnt need to. She provides for him and allows him to not work so he can "pursue his passion" whatever that is, probably something like being a famous musician or something. While she bankrolls his life, including dates and going out. If he needed to work, maybe he would. But he simply doesnt need to. And when she tries to get him to do that he reaches for "Oh but I sacrificied a lot for you". Which might be true but that doesnt mean he shouldnt work. Which shows his very questionable work ethics. And that he would rather stay home and "pursue his passion" then do an honest work.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

And that is where we come to OPs problem. Her boyfriend doesnt work because he doesnt need to. She provides for him and allows him to not work so he can "pursue his passion" whatever that is, probably something like being a famous musician or something. While she bankrolls his life, including dates and going out. If he needed to work, maybe he would. But he simply doesnt need to. And when she tries to get him to do that he reaches for "Oh but I sacrificied a lot for you". Which might be true but that doesnt mean he shouldnt work. Which shows his very questionable work ethics. And that he would rather stay home and "pursue his passion" then do an honest work.

And the fact that he "burned bridges" and has no savings either - both worrisome (although I'd need more info on the bridge burning). 

And yes - um - he'd move back in with mom and dad. He wouldn't be homeless (if he would be then yes -since he moved for you I'd offer him some $ to get on his feet in a new place).  

With rare exception (I am not an exception) we all have stories of taking low level jobs because we needed the money/wanted to have $ for X we wanted.  Sure a lot of us were teenagers/students but I know of many adults now and in the past -who - do rideshare or delivery stuff/fast food/call center -whatever. it. takes. 

We have a friend who is middle aged who never wanted a sort of collar shirt type job - a musician.  Well - a year or so ago he had to get a job. Full stop.  And he does live in his parent's home but they are deceased. His partner has a retail type job and lives with him.  So he does security for a place at the worst possible shifts they give to the newbies in shady neighborhoods.  He does his job to make ends meet. And on the side he's now started a sort of music -related podcast- his passion.  People do that all the time.

[Andrina]

Whatever good exists in this relationship isn't enough to override the bitter feelings that your expectations of him contributing financially, a reasonable expectation, is not being met.

My first husband acted in some ways somewhat similar. He always worked but after he left the military, he did a fun job whereas he was spending more money in gas than he was practically making. 

Men like this are childish. I remember yelling at him that I was working my butt off, plus overtime, but we couldn't even have a reward like one nice vacation per year because he was doing a basic job a teen could do.

Your man is selfish because he's not making a sacrifice of doing any job available so that all financial responsibilities don't fall onto your shoulders. He's berating you for the situation, but he's not married to you so he's a free agent. If he doesn't like the situation, he can leave.

I wouldn't even have any more discussions except one to break up. This is how he operates in life, so to expect major changes from him is foolhardy. Good luck in your career.

[boltnrun]

12 hours ago, Pumpkins said:

This is why I’m frustrated. Yeah , you are right, if he was alone he would have to work any job to support himself. But when I bring that up he says that he wouldn’t have to work here in the middle of nowhere if I didnt match into residency here. 

So he enjoys blaming you for his problems.

Are you planning to marry this man?

[catfeeder]

17 hours ago, Coily said:

Balderdash, I don't buy it after how many times this gibberish is tossed out as a salve for so many personal self help comments. It's dismissive and preloads any useful thoughts with a bigotry towards incomplete information. It usually is accompanied by the stench of sexism. It's one thing to say childish or immature, but the rest is pop garbage that belongs into a landfill.

Suit yourself with your own buzzwords. When you can put yourself into the shoes of supporting someone you love who is stagnating in depression, and worse, blaming you for their choices, then I'll take your armchair old-man lecture seriously. I've been there, and sympathetic enabling didn't help anyone. Leaving him forced him to step up for himself.  I loved him enough to do that, and given the choice again, I would have done so sooner.

[rainbowsandroses]

5 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Suit yourself with your own buzzwords. When you can put yourself into the shoes of supporting someone you love who is stagnating in depression, and worse, blaming you for their choices, then I'll take your armchair old-man lecture seriously. I've been there, and sympathetic enabling didn't help anyone. Leaving him forced him to step up for himself.  I loved him enough to do that, and given the choice again, I would have done so sooner.

I see this^^ now.  @Pumpkinshope you're still reading.  And also please read my recent thread in the "abuse" section. 

 

[Coily]

6 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Suit yourself with your own buzzwords. When you can put yourself into the shoes of supporting someone you love who is stagnating in depression, and worse, blaming you for their choices, then I'll take your armchair old-man lecture seriously. I've been there, and sympathetic enabling didn't help anyone. Leaving him forced him to step up for himself.  I loved him enough to do that, and given the choice again, I would have done so sooner.

The exact insults I expected.

[rainbowsandroses]

19 minutes ago, Coily said:

The exact insults I expected.

@Coily, catfeeder has a point though.

I went through same with an ex, we were together six years and engaged. 

I discovered he was a drug-addict and alcoholic and pretty much had been for most of our relationship.

He was quite controlling, an expert at attempting to manipulate and gaslight me.

I tried to help by being understanding and supportive and encouraged him to get into rehab. He promised he would but that was just another manipulation.  He began verbally abusing me so I left.  

It was ONLY after I left and he realized his mistakes and loss that he went into rehab

He got clean and is clean to this day last I heard! 

Okay so in @Pumpkins situation, her boyfriend isn't a drug addict, however he still needs to get his act together at 37 years of age and stop blaming her, don't you think? 

I'd say this to a woman as well.

By her staying and continuing to support him (to her own financial detriment), she is actually enabling him to stay exactly where he is.  Which isn't doing either one of them any good whatsoever.

Hope that makes sense, my brain is in a bit of a whirlwind today. 

 

[Pumpkins]

17 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@Coily, catfeeder has a point though.

I went through same with an ex, we were together six years and engaged. 

I discovered he was a drug-addict and alcoholic and pretty much had been for most of our relationship.

He was quite controlling, an expert at attempting to manipulate and gaslight me.

I tried to help by being understanding and supportive and encouraged him to get into rehab. He promised he would but that was just another manipulation.  He began verbally abusing me so I left.  

It was ONLY after I left and he realized his mistakes and loss that he went into rehab

He got clean and is clean to this day last I heard! 

Okay so in @Pumpkins situation, her boyfriend isn't a drug addict, however he still needs to get his act together at 37 years of age and stop blaming her, don't you think? 

I'd say this to a woman as well.

By her staying and continuing to support him (to her own financial detriment), she is actually enabling him to stay exactly where he is.  Which isn't doing either one of them any good whatsoever.

Hope that makes sense, my brain is in a bit of a whirlwind today. 

 

Hello everyone I appreciate all the time and thought put into your posts. It means a lot to have some feedback. Sometimes this situation just makes me feel like I’m crazy/in the wrong. 
 

I did put my foot down and say he has to move out in May if he doesn’t get a job but I feel it is my last straw and not sure if I can make it until May because I’m so beyond frustrated.  He did start applying for jobs after this discussion.  But jobs out of state and jobs in his field that are away in another city  and/or remote.  He’s not applying for  any of the blue collar jobs he could get hired for tomorrow that I mentioned earlier. I still don’t think he’s willing to do so  

 

[Batya33]

It's concerning that it took this discussion for him to look for work in any serious way.  I'm sorry you're in this situation.

[rainbowsandroses]

23 minutes ago, Pumpkins said:

Sometimes this situation just makes me feel like I’m crazy/in the wrong. 

Well, this^^ IS precisely how one feels when being gaslighted by another - they question their own reality, second guess their own thought process and feel like they are in the wrong and going crazy.

It's the exact definition of gaslighting. 

There isn't enough here to say whether that's what he's doing or his intention, however I would advise you to follow your own intuition, do NOT lose sight of your own reality and stay grounded in your own truth. 

Never allow another person (or situation?) to manipulate your thoughts and cause you to question yourself or feel "crazy," I am learing this as well. 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Pumpkins said:

.  He did start applying for out of state and jobs in his field that are away in another city  and/or remote.  He’s not applying for  any of the blue collar jobs he could get hired for tomorrow 

I'm sorry to say but this relationship is over. He's already looking somewhere else. Even if it's just a show to buy time and go for the free ride a bit longer.  

[boltnrun]

2 hours ago, Pumpkins said:

He did start applying for jobs after this discussion.  But jobs out of state and jobs in his field that are away in another city  and/or remote.

Is he still insisting on only working part time so he can continue to pursue whatever his "passion" is?

BTW, my nephew wants to be a DJ full time.  But until that happens he's got a job and is going to school full time as well.  He isn't just sitting around hoping someone hires him to be the next Tiesto.  Also, he's 23.

[Pumpkins]

Update to everyone following: I decided to kick him out and then he started immediately applying to jobs. I decided it didn’t matter because he was not willing to before. Did not go well and he says I’ll never see him or our dog ever again if I make him move out. He also partially blamed me and said he had no idea I wanted him to get a job because I enabled his behavior by supporting him, but now he will “fix this issue” and that he “had no idea it was an issue.” I decided to be firm with kicking him out despite him saying he would find a job here. I decided this was best. I shouldn’t have to push someone to take a job who then blames me for their lack of desire to do so. Now he refusing to leave.  
 

thank you everyone for all your supportive comments and perspectives. 

[Batya33]

If it's your home he cannot refuse.  Do what it takes and stand your ground.  Good luck.

[Wiseman2]

On 2/18/2024 at 11:57 AM, Pumpkins said:

I did put my foot down and say he has to move out in May 

Is he on the lease? He doesn't seem to take you seriously because if he's on the lease you can't kick him out. You can put your foot down and threaten as much as you like, but you may have to simply get your own place in May when the lease is up. 

[Pumpkins]

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Is he on the lease? He doesn't seem to take you seriously because if he's on the lease you can't kick him out. You can put your foot down and threaten as much as you like, but you may have to simply get your own place in May when the lease is up. 

He is on the lease unfortunately even though he doesn’t pay.  If he doesn’t go then I’m going to stay at a friends house who gave me their key as a back up in case he doesn’t leave willingly

[Pumpkins]

I keep questioning if I’m doing the right thing and he is saying a lot of things to make me feel guilty and I sure do feel guilty. I hope it’s the right decision in the end.