Broken Family Structure

[Alex39]

I'm really struggling with my family falling apart and breaking up. 

We grew up very close to my dad's sister, my aunt, her husband, my uncle, and my cousins. 

Our grandparents loved us being together and we grew up together. Always did holidays together, events, family stuff. We always laughed and had fun together. Some of my cousins got married recently and we were in weddings and it was fun. 

Now us kids are all 30 years old. 

As we got older, we found that they were very into their appearance.  Into bragging about their kids, their lives, being superior. Where my parents and my sibling and I are very humble people.

At family events, I'd started getting grilled by my uncle and cousins on my degree, qualifications, how I got my good job, almost in doubt that how did I end up doing so well?

They try to analyze your career and what you have to see if you are doing better than them. And try to align themselves with rich people to better themselves. They purposely kissed up to someone we know because they have a huge lake house, and soon enough my aunt and uncle were vacationing there.

Always talking up their successes. Telling our grandparents that their kids are high up at companies and giving my grandparents their business card to hang up. I never felt the need to do this. I work hard bit I don't brag at all.

Giving our grandparents pictures of them constantly.  My grandparents weren't in the photos. Just pictures of my adult cousins doing something like here they are at a color run or here they are on a beach in Florida. 

We are almost 30 years old. I found it inappropriate to give my grandparents a picture of me, when they aren't in the picture. 

I spent time with my grandparents going shopping, calling on the phone, going out to eat. Time together was better than a photo of me. My cousins didn't spend quality time with my grandparents. They were too into their own lives.

My grandparents house became a shrine with dozens of pictures of them taking up their home. My grandfather even got mad one day and threw some away saying that he couldn't even eat dinner anymore because the photos became out of control, covering his table. 

We always went on big family vacations together. Grandparents, aunt, uncle, cousins. We always had a great time. But as we got older, the collaboration stopped. 

They'd make plans and never tell us, then get up and say- we are going here if you want to go? 

We were never ready, we would either rush and chase them around, or we wouldn't be able to go. We were more into getting together and making a plan together jointly. We'd get up and say what does everyone want to do today? And make a plan together. They made plans on their own. And if we wanted we'd have to follow them around to spend time with them.

They were terrible with time on these trips. We would make a plan saying- everyone get off the beach at 3pm to take showers. We'll leave for dinner at 5pm. Everyone agrees.

3pm rolls around and our side and our grandparents would get up and start going to take showers. My cousins would sit lounging, reading, swimming, then they'd break out with snacks and food.

We'd be so confused as we are getting ready for dinner as we all agreed. They'd just sit there basking. They wouldn't be ready at 5pm and we'd sit all ready waiting for them for a good additional hour. Then because they were late, we'd have to wait hours at restaurants and they'd complain that's its so late and all excursions and activities were closing down after dinner.

So we still did vacations, but we started doing dinners separately. That worked better and we'd do early dinners. They'd always say how jealous they were that we got to do all these fun activities after dinner and they didn't get to. We planned our days better.

After so long, things got more separate and awkward. So we didn't do vacations together at all anymore.

One of the last trips, my cousins were in and out the entire time. It made for no planning. Half the time we were just waiting on them to come and go. And they would show up, say they wanted to do XYZ, grab money from their parents, and leave everyone to go do it with their partners. We then felt bad so we toted my aunt and uncle around with us and my grandparents, so they weren't alone. We prioritized staying together.


The last trip we did, my aunt only told us a month before, saying they are going here on these dates and we should come. They clearly planned it prior, but only told us last minute. We wanted to do it as our tradition. So we got a last minute hotel and joined them. But joining them wasn't joining them.

We hit the beach, they said they'd join us. They showed up hours later as we were leaving. We couldn't coordinate dinners. We'd suggest grabbing drinks and playing games at night together. They'd say no, then we saw on social that they were all just hanging out together doing things without us. We felt really negative after this trip and we felt like an afterthought and they didn't really want us there.

After that we saw that they vacationed by themselves and we weren't invited. We were okay with this.

A few years ago, we asked them as a final gesture if they wanted to vacation together again. We suggested a spot, a rental home, a date, a plan. My aunt said she wasn't sure. Months go by and we offer up the plan again. My aunt says she can't coordinate her kids for the dates and they don't really want to go to that location anyway. We checked with her a 3rd time just to confirm. She again shut it down.


So we planned the trip for ourselves and my grandparents said they were interested so we included them too. We booked flights, hotel, etc. The plan was set. We let my aunt know that we booked it and when it was.

She acted offended and strange. She acted like we planned a trip without them. Acted like we didn't include them at all. We asked them 3 times.

Things were awkward. We are pretty sure she never told her kids that we invited them 3 times as they felt excluded. We tried to tell them. Things were awkward and then on the day that we are set to leave on airplanes, she plans a big bash at her house and acts like we purposely planned our trip to miss the party.

When we told her of the trip months before.

Years went on. We all bought homes and are now in our 30s.

I've been to my cousins homes once or twice.

My brother and I haven't invited them to our homes.  Now my aunt and uncle are offended. But we feel like they only want to come to analyze how well we're doing and compare our homes. So I haven't invited them over.

We still continued to do the holidays, but even that became a struggle. We like early holidays. Christmas dinner at 12 noon or 1pm,  dessert a few hours later. Then if people want leftovers for dinner.

If my aunt had it at her home, she'd tell us the plan and we'd show up accordingly, no complaints, even if it's 5pm. It's her house.


When my mother had it, she'd say 1pm, and they'd complain, tell us when we should have it that's convenient for them. My mom would say 1pm, they'd say 4pm. My mom felt offended because she's buying all the food and putting it on at her home.

So we started sticking firm, saying 1pm for dinner and they'd say- we'll be there. Their new thing was saying they are coming at 1. Then don't show up until 3 or 4. And they expect a hot dinner.

We'd sit waiting, waiting, waiting. My mom didn't want to be mean so we'd sit waiting on dinner for hours until they came. It was rude and insensitive.

Again, things got tense and awkward.

My grandparents got old and sick. Suddenly my cousins start spending tons of time with them, knowing they were going to die. My aunt, uncle, and cousins start spending overwhelming time with them. It was obnoxious and ridiculous.

We'd been spending quality time with them all along throughout their lives and we had the good vacations with them when my aunt and uncle didn't want to go. My aunt and uncle never offered to take them on vacations with them. So we always took my grandparents with us.

On their death bed my aunt is taking pictures of her kids and her grandkids with our grandparents like they are doting on them. My grandparents visibly sick in the photo. It was horrible.

My grandparents pass away.

We have to rush to get affairs in order for the funeral.

The funeral parlor writes an obituary for us, and says - in this box, add in all your grandparents  hobbies.

So I wrote in a nice, professional,  message about my grandmothers and grandfathers hobbies and interests in life.

Thinking my aunt and uncle are writing up some too. And the funeral parlor will merge them.

We send ours back to the funeral parlor. And it's getting late. The lady needs to post the obituary.

My aunt and uncle then send us a complete re-written obituary that they wrote wanting us to add our information in to theirs and to submit that to the parlor.

We are so confused. The parlor wrote the whole thing telling us only to add some hobbies in one spot. My aunt and uncle were like- oh no you can just write your own.

Their obituary was very dramatic and almost made my grandfather look like a rude mean man- he was, but we didn't want to highlight that.

The grammar and format wasn't proper and it looked very unprofessional. They really highlighted that my grandparents had great grandchildren and really wanted to showcase their own grandchildren.

Their grandchildren were babies and were born only months before my grandparents died. My grandparents were old and sick and barely knew them. The babies won't remember them.

I grew up 30 years with my grandparents and had many special moments with them. We were really close.

We told my aunt how we felt she wrote more a speech to be spoken at the funeral, not a printed obituary. And how we thought we should downplay the great grandchildren. They grew offended that we downplay their grandchildren- my cousins children. We didn't say to get rid of them, just not highlight them as much.

My grandparents were confused and had alzheimers. My aunt would lay the babies in their arms to take photos, but they were confused and sick. It wasn't a loving real experience.

Since my aunt re-wrote her obituary and she submitted it late, the parlor published our version, because we submitted our thoughts early and added in thoughts and hobbies as we were instructed to in the right spot.  We didn't re-write the entire thing.

My aunt and uncle got mad at us that ours was published and they had no say. We told them we didn't know the parlor was publishing it and we didn't know they hadnt added their info in yet.

Since then, things have been tense. My aunt hates my mom, because my mom tries to keep things fair and asks a lot of questions. My mom is very smart and doesn't just cave to my aunts every wish.

We have been dividing up my grandfather's things and it's been tense between our families.

My aunt avoids my mom. And only talks to me and my brother when my parents are away from us. It's really upsetting. My mom's been a great godmother to my aunts children. Getting them gifts, baking for them, etc all their lives.

We didn't spend the holidays together at all and it was the first time. I'm heartbroken over this. But they never reached out to coordinate it either. We didn't either.


My cousin still wants to see me and wants to have family parties. But it's so awkward.

My aunt and uncle are still trying to have a relationship with my brother and I, but not my parents. I feel so stuck because I feel in the middle.

I want to stay close to my aunt, uncle, and cousins, but my brother and I are really close to my parents. It's very awkward and I wish we could repair the family.

I'd like to have a BBQ at my house this summer and invite everyone, but my parents don't want to socialize with them.

I feel so stressed and stuck in the middle.

My aunt just mailed me a Christmas gift. Saying she missed me and sad we didn't do Christmas. But she never reached out to try to see me for Christmas or have Christmas together.

They never brought up the holidays and they did it on their own. We did it on our own. I didn't buy any gifts because we weren't seeing them. I don't even know what to say to the gift. I feel really uncomfortable. 

[Batya33]

I'm sorry about this. It's sad but just as long lasting friendships can end or fade or change so can longstanding family relationships.  Especially cousins/extended family.  It's sad and can be frustrating and sometimes just like with friendships you have to move on.

[Seraphim]

This happens. People grow up and don’t want to do the same things anymore. 
Life changes all the time . That is the only sure thing that happens, things change . 

[Wiseman2]

Please try to focus on your own adult life. It's fine to have a close knit family, but being dragged through all your mother's battles and extreme joined at the hip thinking seems exhausting. 

[boltnrun]

This is another example of how it's impossible to direct the behavior of others. Sure, it's disappointing. And I too am nostalgic for when my cousins and I were kids and our parents were still alive and we spent a ton of time together. But we're not WRONG for not doing things the same way anymore. We just made different choices.

I need @Seraphim 's diagram!

[Seraphim]

8 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

This is another example of how it's impossible to direct the behavior of others. Sure, it's disappointing. And I too am nostalgic for when my cousins and I were kids and our parents were still alive and we spent a ton of time together. But we're not WRONG for not doing things the same way anymore. We just made different choices.

I need @Seraphim 's diagram!

I was going to say it all relates back to this once again. 
We do not control other adult human beings. Period. 

[Alex39]

I am not trying to control others. I honestly need advice here. 

Do I still try to do events with my aunt, uncle, and cousins? 

How do I handle my aunt and uncle wanting to still be close to me, but at odds with my parents? 

Do I just cut them off? 

I feel extremely uncomfortable that my aunt, uncle, and cousins, didn't try to see us for the holidays and we didn't see them. But that she sent me a very generous gift in the mail a month after Christmas, trying to still be in my life. Saying how she missed us for the holiday, but she never made an effort to see me or ask about seeing us.  And I didn't get any of them gifts or anything. We weren't seeing them. What do I say to her? 

At mutual get-togethers, my aunt and uncle avoid my parents, but as soon as my parents leave and I'm alone, they come over and are really nice and talk to me. But it's obvious they only come over to me when my parents are away. This makes me very uncomfortable and upset. 

 

How do I navigate? 

 

I'm not trying to change them. I don't know how to act or respond myself. 

[Wiseman2]

4 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

How do I handle my aunt and uncle wanting to still be close to me, but at odds with my parents? 

Please stop fighting your mother's battles for her and getting caught up in her narcissistic triangulation, pitting everyone against each other for total control. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Maintain whatever family relationships you wish to whatever degrees you wish. You're a grown woman.

[Alex39]

Do I need to go out and buy Christmas gifts now? It's a very uncomfortable situation. 

[Seraphim]

The fight between your aunt and uncle and parents isn’t your fight . I wish I had cousins . I never spent any time  with mine . I lived 3000 km or more away from mine . Also my dad was the outcast of his family so I didn’t get to know those cousins when I was an adult and my dad the evil human he was got together with my mom’s brother’s wife when my mom told him to get lost . He told my maternal cousins lies and now they learned to hate me and my sibling and now are too embarrassed to even talk to us considering what their mother did, and my father did. Their mother is dead, and so is my father, but I still have no relationship with any cousin, period. 
 

So , have your relationships and let your mom fight her battles . 

[Capricorn3]

23 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

Do I need to go out and buy Christmas gifts now? It's a very uncomfortable situation. 

It might look a little odd giving them Christmas gifts a whole month later - like an after thought.  Perhaps give a nice birthday present whenever that happens.

 

[boltnrun]

23 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

Do I need to go out and buy Christmas gifts now? It's a very uncomfortable situation. 

I think the "I only bought you a gift because you bought me one" gift is much more awkward than no gift at all. 

However, a modest amount gift card to some place like Peet's Coffee along with a gracious"thank you " note would be nice IMO.

But what's important is for you to do what YOU think is best. It's probably past time for making decisions based on what Mom thinks you should do. 

[Batya33]

I also wanted to add -I don't think you need to cut them off completely -why would that be?

[Coily]

Having had a similar family dynamic years ago, I'll share what I did.

When my grandmother died there was a drift between my mother and her extended family. While her sisters stayed closer to that extended family, my mother was only in loose contact. As such I never felt obligated to give this family the time of day, they we obnoxious and self centered; wanting to flaunt what they had. I was not impressed. Especially how they vilely treated a poorer cousin, a man who even in his old age would try and do everything for family.

My solution, unless my mother asked me to drive her to visit them, I have zero interaction with them. I feel far better for it. When I do have to interact, I just politely say hello, and grab a book. Their opinion of me matters not.

[Starlight925]

You miss the innocence of childhood and young adulthood, when you didn't realize how toxic this all was.

Now, you see behind the curtain, and the Wizard (your toxic family members) are forever exposed in your mind for all the issues that have been there all along.

You enjoyed la-la land until you grew up and saw them for what they really are.

They didn't change, you did.

You've been able to, as Dorothy, go "home" anytime you want.  By not engaging.

Keep these people at arm's length.

I know, you're going to write 20 more pages about all the wonderful things they did when you were young, and 20 more pages of all the horrible things they do now, because that's been your pattern of every post:  your friends, your boyfriend, your gym lady boss.  

You have the power to cut this all out of your life.  Put on your own ruby slippers and move these people to where they belong in your life:  limited contact.

[catfeeder]

I can only speak for myself. I consider fallouts between two people as being between them--and not my business. I also don't think it's unusual to form certain family relationships beyond whatever a parent chooses to do. As long as my aunt or cousins didn't try to badmouth my mother or anyone else to me, I'd operate independently of all other family members, including brother, and I'd cultivate my best possible relationship with them.

If they prove themselves to be lovely people, I'd have expanded my family reach for my future children, along with, potentially, my own social reach, and at no cost to anyone in my family, given that they live over an hour away.

If it turns out that I don't enjoy these people, then I'd fade out on them. No harm, no foul.

In my own case, I've continued to maintain relationships with my own cousins despite no particular interest from my sister or mom to be involved with them. There was no fallout between them. My sister is just focused elsewhere, and my mom does maintain relationships with the older generations--just not their kids. 

[Starlight925]

Agree with @catfeeder.  Let others' fallouts with each other be just that:  amongst them.

In the past couple of years, I've attended both a wedding and a funeral, as the sole member of my family, as no one other than me was speaking to any of those involved.  I'm glad I went.  I had a blast at the wedding, and I was brought in very warmly at the funeral.

Basically, if two people don't get along, but I get along with them, I don't give a rat's ***.

In my friend group, I have two people who vehemently hate each other.  We have to plan outings around these two, as they cannot be in the same room.  Two years ago, I had a 60th birthday party for myself, a seated dinner in the wine room of a very exclusive steakhouse.  I said screw it, and invited them both.  As the universe would have it, both were out of town, but the rest of us were hoping they'd show up just to witness the Real Housewives-esque fireworks, lol.

You do you, Alex.

[LootieTootie]

Sounds like a misunderstanding between your parents and uncle/aunt.

If you find yourself getting uncomfortable or upset on behalf of one of the parties, then please know that you are allowing yourself to be emotionally involved in their fight. 

Step aside and learn to say to yourself: "This is not my battle. I will love and support both my parents and my aunt/uncle and not allow myself to feel bad or sad for one or the other. This is not my battle."

My big family have these type of tiffs all the time, mostly my aunties ha. These tiffs are beyond stupid - not worth any emotional or mental strain.

[MissCanuck]

With all the negative things you have to say about your aunt and uncle here, I am surprised you want to spend time with them. 

But given that you, it is your prerogative to do so. Spend time with them separately from your parents. Don't get involved in their battle. 

[boltnrun]

Is the only reason you want to re-engage and buy your aunt a gift because SHE bought you one?  Do you only feel a sense of obligation, or do you truly want to reconnect?  Are you afraid your mom will be mad at you if you do choose to reconnect with them?

[Jaunty]

This would be a good opportunity for you to back off from the burden of your family's expectations and all the negative details about these relatives.   As usual, you are going on and on and on about that stuff.

You are an adult woman, an individual, and if you like your cousin and want to spend time with them, or your aunt, or any of them - do so.

If you agree that they are a bunch of worthless losers because of the many misdeeds you've mentioned here ... you have the freedom to leave them behind.

Your choice.

You do you, Alex.  If you do decide to keep these relatives in your life, I sincerely entreat you to NOT keep enumerating their crappy deeds and character flaws.   If you want them in your life, please accept them for who they are and function with appropriate boundaries for yourself.

If you do NOT keep them in your life - do this because YOU choose it.  Not because of your mother or all the other complicated family dynamics.

 

 

[boltnrun]

This just occurred to me...do you believe you have the right or ability to control others' behavior because your mother believes she has the right and ability to control yours (and she's not wrong, based on your various threads about her)?

[catfeeder]

2 hours ago, Jaunty said:

[...] You do you, Alex.  If you do decide to keep these relatives in your life, I sincerely entreat you to NOT keep enumerating their crappy deeds and character flaws.

Yep, I was thinking about this, too. Alex, I wonder how many of your perceptions of your extended family were fed to you by your mother, or at least narrated by her, and you just accepted those as gospel?

You've complained about your Mom being critical and overbearing, so it's not a stretch to consider that others have felt the same. The difference is, they bucked your Mom's rules instead of conforming to them, even while they don't hold those conflicts against you or your brother.

You get to decide how you feel about forming your own relationships with each of these people as individuals. For instance, you're allowed to adore one cousin, but not her brother. You're allowed to entertain a tentative relationship with your aunt and uncle just to see whether it leads you to some joy--and possibly even some liberation--from the critical lens of your Mom.

And this does NOT mean that you are disloyal to your Mom, just because she would prefer to have the kind power over you to imply so. It's one thing to entertain gossip and 'side against' your Mom versus staying out of it.

Welcome to the challenges of adulthood--without a rule book! You are not only entitled to author your own path, your own values, your own sense of right versus wrong based on ADULT inputs--you are actually responsible for doing so. If, instead, you opt to keep to the limits of what you've been taught by a loving but fallible parent, that's not against the law, either. It just won't buy you any vision of your own future beyond those constraints.

Head high, and enjOy.

[Alex39]

I do genuinely want to still have a relationship with my aunt/uncle and cousins. 

We aren't perfect, I'm not and they aren't. I don't think they are. But I do see a bit of how they feel. 

I do think my mom can be overbearing to others, but she does it with good intention. She always thinks she's being helpful and trying to maintain fairness. But sometimes she goes too much on it. 

I want to have my aunt/uncle and cousins at my house. Host events. But I'd like my family to be there too. 

My mom sees it as betrayal and doesn't understand why I'd subject myself to having them here, because all they want to do is size up my home and see what I have. They tend to compare and compete. 

But I figure, who the heck cares? Let them look. I like what I have. I don't care what they think. My uncle is the type to wander your home, going room to room sizing it up. My mom finds this rude. I agree. But I don't care what they think. I don't let them bother me. 

I've lived here for years and none of them have seen my home. My aunt and cousins have made comments about it that they've never been asked over. 

I am afraid my mom will be mad at me if I choose to be okay with them. She's expressed that she feels then that we don't stand with her. 

I even had a dream a few days ago that my mom and I disagreed and got into an argument over something. My cousins and family was there. I sided against her. And she tried to have me committed to an asylum. I ran away for my life to escape it. 

My mom loves me and cares a lot for me. She wants what's best for me. She just always thinks what's best for me is exactly how she thinks things should be. She's not always wrong. But I think for myself. Have my own ideas. She doesn't embrace things she doesn't understand or think is normal. But other times my mom surprises me and embraces things I show or tell her with open arms. New technology or a new trend I saw on a video, she'll suddenly be open and try it. I can never figure her out. It was like this my whole childhood. I could never anticipate her mood or her wants/likes. 

Years ago I was diagnosed by a mental health professional with OCD. My mom thinks I'm making it up and it's a load of crap. Recently, I've been seeing a lot of videos online of adults explaining their adult ADHD. I literally have every quirk and symptoms. I'm positive I have ADHD. When I told my mom she totally blows me off, doesn't listen, and tells me I'm just making it up. But I genuinely believe it and it explains a lot about how I am. A lot more of me and my past makes sense because of the ADHD. My mom dismisses it and acts like I'm crazy for making it up. But I know deep down it's what I have. 

[Wiseman2]

3 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

I am afraid my mom will be mad at me if I choose to be okay with them. She's expressed that she feels then that we don't stand with her. 

Are you going to invite your family over or continue to abide by your mother's dislikes?  Your mother can't made diagnoses. Nor can you. However a licensed qualified psychiatrist can definitely assess your overall and mental health and help you get treatment and feel better. It's your responsibility to care for your physical and mental health. Not your mother's