My daughter is threatening to keep my grandchildren away unless...

[Starlight925]

Let's say your daughter is 99% wrong.  (even though I don't think that to be the case).

100% of you doesn't get to see your grandchildren.

Sometimes, we have to let that person be wrong, agree to disagree, and move on with our life.

 

[catfeeder]

The problem with offering our views to you is that you are not interested in anything that deviates from what you want to hear. You misuse these posts to defend yourself, and then you believe your own defense and remain embedded in it. Good luck with that.

[Wiseman2]

22 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

 I still have the Christmas presents that I bought for my grandkids. 

Why haven't you sent them? What's up with that? Even after she went through the trouble of sending you a lovely birthday gift? She seems like much bigger person. 

No it's not Joe's fault. You're just throwing him under the bus to avoid responsibility. 

[Seraphim]

Your daughter doesn’t have to allow you time with your grandkids and as you see as the grandkids grow they have their own opinions base on their own observations. Good luck with the grandson explaining you’re giving his mother boundaries so there for he was punished with no Christmas with grandma. That won’t fly. Also if you haven’t raised your daughter with boundaries kinda too late to impose them in her 30’s. 

[tattoobunnie]

You sound like my MIL.  You don't need to punish a grown woman.  Don't mean to diss you getting help, but you if you've seen many therapists, it sounds like you fire them if they don't enable your mindset that you are always the victim.

[Starlight925]

Yeah, great question:

Why haven't you sent the Xmas presents?

Punishing your grandchildren by withholding gifts?

Classy.

[Sweet Sue]

So, comforting to know that none of you think she should be held accountable for her actions. 

A 'bigger person' would have allowed for a few extra hours, that's all I asked for was a few extra hours. Heck, I would have given it to her. A 'bigger person' wouldn't have threatened to keep me from seeing my grandchildren if I don't show up when she tells me to show up. A 'bigger person' doesn't use social media to say mean-spirited things about me. A 'bigger person' doesn't involve children in adult affairs.  A 'bigger person' doesn't block and delete. A 'bigger person' doesn't connive, manipulate, give ultimatums or disrespects their parent(s).

She has made no attempt to call me or reach out in any way. I sent a Valentine's Day gift basket and received no reply. I called my daughter on my birthday to thank her for the edible arrangement and left her a message- I got no response. I texted my daughter and grandson a message of apology and even spoke to my ex-husband to speak to our daughter and to find out what she needs from me to mend this broken fence - this was in January. Still no word. I think I have put more effort in these last few months than she has. 

I don't use social media to berate my daughter. Nor have I blocked or deleted her from social media or my phone. 

I think it's petty and juvenile and it's not my style. 

She lives for drama and if there isn't any, she'll find a way to create it.

I am not a perfect person and may not always make the right choices. I always try to do what I think is right. 

And there's the rub....

I have always told my daughter that she is loved and will always be loved, despite all of our differences.

It hasn't been easy. I've been hit, kicked, slapped, and been called vulgar names and she has even wished me dead. 

Not once, have I ever called my daughter a vulgar name, nor have I ever kicked, slapped or wished her dead. Instead, I took her to therapy- mostly alone because my ex wanted no part of it. She was in a juvennile detention center for a few days for physically assaulting me after I told her she couldn't use the phone. The counseling she received there seemed to help, at least for awhile.

She's been diagnosed with ODD and HDHD.

I haven't sent the Christmas presents, because I was hoping for a reconciliation before now. The bulk of their Christmas presents arrived in mid-December, I am not worried about a few presents that remain here in my closet. I am NOT punishing my grandchildren by withholding a few extra presents that they don't even know about- that's not my style. 

My granddaughter has a birthday coming up in April and I am hoping I get an invite. 

Seraphim- my grandchildren don't get to make up their own mind about what they think of me. Their mother, who has referred to them as ' stupid little ***' has already brainwashed them. You have never seen a level of dysfunction as I have witnessed in that home. It's reprehensible and disgraceful. I don't doubt for a moment that she loves her children, but she does not provide a loving and nuturing environment for them to thrive in. There is alot of yelling, screaming, threatening and name calling. 

Wiseman- you just don't get it. It was never about needing Joe's permission, but just checking with him to make sure he could still drive us up there at that time, because if it wasnt' at that time, we would go another time. I DON'T NEED JOE'S PERMISSION TO VISIT MY DAUGHTER OR MY GRANDCHILDREN. Our plan, all along was to find a day or a weekend where we could drive up there. She didn't like the mere fact that I mentioned Joe as we were finalizing plans on the phone that night and went off on me, yelling at me and making threats and giving me an ultimatum that if I didn't show up, I'd never see my grandchildren ever again, then she hung up. 

That's reprehensible. How is that being a 'bigger person'? 

 

 

 

[Jaunty]

Oh well.  You've made your choice, so get comfortable with the results of it.   

[Tinydance]

I think that while you not turning up for Christmas was pretty bad, your daughter has actually overreacted. If you've been apologising and trying to contact her a lot, she could move on and forgive you. I did read another comment you wrote that your daughter always had difficult behaviours or something like that. But the part I seem to have missed is why do you need Joe to go with you? You can't just go places alone? 

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

So, comforting to know that none of you think she should be held accountable for her actions. 

Why do you care who is "accountable" when the bigger picture is your grandchildren and your potential access to them? As myself and others have written on this and other threads would you rather be "right" or "close." My teenager texted me the other day -emphasis on "teenager" simply to say "thanks so much for helping me this morning I feel so much better."  I don't even know what precisely I said to help and the text made my day - you can get texts like that too if you spend time with your grandchildren so that they feel safe with you and safe perhaps to open up and confide -I had grandparents I turned to for advice but that was because I was close to them. 

My son and mom have an awesome relationship (other grandparents unfortunately have passed) - she reaches him in certain ways that I as mom cannot and it's -beautiful - we live far away but he carries her in his heart and is so open with her.  And they have so much fun including with their little inside jokes on brief phone calls.  Wow -I hope this helps see how awful it would be to potentially miss out with your big words like "accountable" - can your grandkids even pronounce that yet or do you want to wait until they can - and you'll see it on some video they make for someone else?

[boltnrun]

You wrote previously you think it's terrible for the children to suffer just because their responsible adults are feuding. So why do you continue to punish them? Send the gifts already with a note saying you love them and hope to see them soon.

You're so focused on punishing their mother you can't even seem to see the bigger picture.

[Seraphim]

24 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

You wrote previously you think it's terrible for the children to suffer just because their responsible adults are feuding. So why do you continue to punish them? Send the gifts already with a note saying you love them and hope to see them soon.

You're so focused on punishing their mother you can't even seem to see the bigger picture.

Same I would have sent the gifts . 

[Starlight925]

We all get it.  She’s been diagnosed as OMGCDGKKDHD. 

Check. 
 

She sounds like a miserable person. 
 

So do you. 
 

Stay away from your grandchildren.  They don’t need any extra misery in their lives. 

[Jaunty]

3 hours ago, Seraphim said:

Same I would have sent the gifts . 

Yes - sometime close to the Christmas holidays.  It's Easter.

[Seraphim]

2 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Yes - sometime close to the Christmas holidays.  It's Easter.

Yup, time for the Easter gifts not Christmas. 

[Jaunty]

Meanwhile, I wonder what the grandkids are thinking?  Probably not "wow our mom is such a POS that we are now not able to have our Christmas presents or see our grandmother."

More along the lines of "Gee.  Granny was a no-show for Christmas and didn't even send us anything"   

@Sweet Sue- all your efforts to punish your daughter and make her "accountable" or whatever are really just making everything worse for YOU.   

Honestly it seems like the kids and your daughter will be better off without all of this nastiness - maybe you will be too.  Just you and Joe, off into the sunset on your own - since you have issues with his family as well.

[bluecastle]

On 1/15/2024 at 10:08 AM, Sweet Sue said:

Where is the benefit of rewarding this kind of behavior?

On 1/18/2024 at 9:01 PM, Sweet Sue said:

But where is HER accountability? 

On 3/16/2024 at 5:10 PM, Sweet Sue said:

Is there no accountability for her behavior? 

12 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

So, comforting to know that none of you think she should be held accountable for her actions. 

This seems to be the dominant theme, what you come back to time and again, the frustration that your daughter is not "accountable." And it seems that, conscious or not, the thing that is most important to you right now—far more than seeing your grandchildren—is holding her accountable. 

In this I wonder if you see how similar you two are—how stubbornly you've each created a red line that ensures nothing changes unless the other person does X, Y, and Z. Hard and real as that line seems to both of you, to the outside, or at least to this outsider, it looks like a mirage, a thing that provides each of you with the same things: a sense of righteousness, a sense of power, the crown of victimhood. And unfortunately it seems you are both hardwired to seek these things in the same way a plant does sunlight, which is the backdrop to this stalemate.

Anyhow, here is an idea to consider: the accountability you seek will never, ever, EVER come. Think about that for a quiet moment. Let it simmer, bloom, take root. For emphasis: the accountability you seek is something you will never, ever, EVER get. Think of that not in a moral vacuum but as a hard fact of the world, no different from the existence of an ocean or a mountain.  

Now, taking that notion into account—the Rocky Mountains cut through North America and your daughter will never be held accountable in the way you seek—ask yourself a simple question: Do you want to have a relationship with your daughter and grandchildren?

If the answer is yes, then your work is: letting go of the whole accountability narrative, accepting it as a story at odds with reality, learning to live without it (and thus in actual reality), and creating a reservoir of grace and support to weather this and future moments of a similar shade without going into battle mode.

If the answer is no, then your work is: letting go of your daughter and her family, mourning that loss the way one does a death, and embracing the life you and Joe are carving out together.

There is sweetness and bitterness in both those choices, as there tends to be in most. You know your own appetite.  

 

 

 

[catfeeder]

13 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

So, comforting to know that none of you think she should be held accountable for her actions.

Accountable to whom? And how?

Unsurprisingly, you remain embedded in your own repetitive defense, and you will continue to get the same results as long as you hold to it. Again, good luck with that.

[boltnrun]

On 3/17/2024 at 7:25 AM, boltnrun said:

Do you want to be "right" or do you want a close, loving relationship with your grandchildren and your daughter?

Do you prioritize "Joe" over anyone and everything else?

To piggyback onto @bluecastle's excellent post I am quoting myself. I am wondering if this resonates with you even a tiny bit. 

[tattoobunnie]

14 hours ago, Sweet Sue said:

So, comforting to know that none of you think she should be held accountable for her actions. ...

She lives for drama and if there isn't any, she'll find a way to create it.

You are the one that wants to punish her.  Not sure how you honestly believe you aren't just as dramatic.

Based on the fact that you feel you should be the one on top, and she's always in the wrong, If this was me, and it has been me, I would never let my kids around you.  I could never trust what you say about me to them, or what you may do to them to punish me.

You refuse to see her point of view, so there you have it.  This can and will go on for years, as you tell everyone how horrible of a person she is, and her kids can enjoy the other sets of grandparents they have.

[LootieTootie]

Why is Joe snooping on FB and relaying the FB comments to you? You would think a grown adult would know not to get in the middle of two petty people's drama.

Any way... no one wins. Only the kids suffer as both adults are bent on revenge and division. If she doesn't want you seeing her children, accept it and move on. All you can do is bite your tongue, bow out with grace and hope that when they turn 18, they reach out. 

Also send the x-mas presents already. It's getting waaaaay too late to be holding onto winter presents when spring is here.

[Sweet Sue]

I came one here seeking your insights and advice to a very complicated situation.

I want to send a message of 'thanks' for all of those who contributed to this thread.

I hope all of you have great and wonderful day! 😃