Felony Conviction

[libra]

My (25F) boyfriend (25M) of about 3 months is a felon. When he was 18 and a senior in high school, he got into a fight with another student. Family of the other student pressed charges, he was convicted and served a brief jail sentence (not prison) of about 3 months. This was his only offense. I don’t want to jump to any conclusions, but in the time I’ve known him I haven’t seen any indicators of recurrent violent behavior. I’m a survivor of domestic violence myself so I try to be heavily discretionary. My question is- am I absolutely crazy for entertaining this guy? (Complete honesty is encouraged). He’s expressed a desire to get to know me and take this seriously, and so far everything between us has been fine. However, he’s struggled with finding gainful employment as the result of his background. He can find lower wage jobs in the service industry or retail without too much difficulty, but nothing that constitutes a long term career so far. Is this something that will affect me long term if I choose to pursue this? He’s a nice guy, and doesn’t seem to be a repeatedly violent person or like he has set himself up for a life of crime due to his previous mistake. But I’m not sure if this should be a dealbreaker due to possible continued negative repercussions. 

[Sam1986]

Depends on what he was convicted for ("a fight" can mean so many different things in practice, even if the law views it differently), and whether or not this indicates a pattern. Talk to him about it and try to find out more perhaps. I personally feel that there is too little information to base any advice on in this case, details are needed. Genereally I'd personally be wary of someone who is convicted, but that doesnt mean that he is automatically disqualified from being a good guy.

Just an example: For all I know the fight in question was one where your boyfriend got provoked first and they both participated in the fight, yet your boyfriend got a "lucky" punch in that knocked the guy unconscious and gave him a concussion. Even if the law views that as some sort of assault and convicted him accordingly, I think most guys would agree that while it was unfortunate that he got knocked out, the first guy had it coming. It can however also mean the complete opposite, that your boyfriend picked a fight, escalated on purpose or used disproportionate violence, which is a different thing altogether. Hence you should try to uncover whether or not this is a pattern.

[Starlight925]

It's been 7 years since this happened.  What has he done for the last 7 years to help himself get past this?  Therapy?  Work?  Education?  Improved relationships with family and friends?  Sincere apologies, taken true accountability, accepts full responsibility for his part in this?

Or does he still blame "the other guy"?  Does he think therapy is for "wacky people"?  Does he hop from one low-paying job to the next, always saying that "the boss" doesn't like him?  

This isn't about how he feels about you, or frankly, how he treats you.

It's about how he feels and treats the world around him.

[Wiseman2]

It seems like he revealed this because he knows you can look up court records. A felony is not "a mistake". He may be a nice guy, but he has several liabilities including being chronically unemployed. 

[Crawfords Wine]

Personally, I'd let this dude go.
You're only 25, and you'd be setting yourself up for some tricky challenges if you move forward with this relationship.
I'm by no means saying that a 'youthful mistake' ought to define the rest of this man's life, but the capacity and the potential of violence is a red flag.
For it to be a felony charge, it has to be more than just a bit of a scuffle between two peers. 
Somebody, presumably the other fella, got really hurt.

Knowing that, will you be able to -especially as a DV survivor- ever completely relax and feel safe around him? 
When he's had a drink or two, or when he got a rollicking at work, or when something else yanks his chain?

Both retail and the service industry can provide long and prosperous careers, for those willing to put their head down, do the hours and start from the bottom up.
Your boyfriend will have to be patient, humble and hardworking to prove to employers that he has truly learned from his past, and is determined to make better choices.
It's been 7 years since his conviction, what has he done to positively improve his life, his prospects and his outlook on the future?

[Starlight925]

7 minutes ago, Crawfords Wine said:

Both retail and the service industry can provide long and prosperous careers, for those willing to put their head down, do the hours and start from the bottom up.

Agree.  My dad raised a family of 5 on a retail career with a high school education.  For 50 years.  Hard work, hours, dedication, and lots of love.  So don't diss a retail/service career; he has to be willing to put the work in.

[boltnrun]

I don't have a conviction but I also don't have a college degree. Did he at least finish high school? If so, he can get a job with a major online retailer in one of their warehouses like I did. I started from the bottom and worked my way up to a management position. It didn't pay millions but it was enough for me to rent a townhouse in a gated country club community and furnish it with everything I wanted. I was also able to buy a new car. And I was about to purchase a condo but I chose to move back to my home state. This major online retailer does require a background check but I personally know someone who worked there and had a felony conviction on his record. And he was being promoted and moved up in the company.

My cousin's son also has a felony conviction and did three years in prison. He has turned his life around since he was released and now has a great job as a truck driver. He has never gotten into any more trouble and is a great guy. He made bad decisions (not "mistakes") when he was younger but he doesn't want to be that guy ever again. 

If your friend has not finished high school he needs to do this ASAP. He may have to start at the bottom but if he never gets into trouble again he can build a decent career for himself. 

[smackie9]

Just my opinion, life will be a struggle for quite awhile, like years. You will never be able to travel outside the country for vacations or anything. He can turn his life around sure but the question is, why hasn't he been doing anything about it for the last 7 years. I don't see real motivation, just a lot of gum flapping about what he might do but has excuses. And it's not up to you to figure all this out for him. I think he's way too much of a project to bother with. 

[libra]

1 hour ago, Crawfords Wine said:

Personally, I'd let this dude go.
You're only 25, and you'd be setting yourself up for some tricky challenges if you move forward with this relationship.
I'm by no means saying that a 'youthful mistake' ought to define the rest of this man's life, but the capacity and the potential of violence is a red flag.
For it to be a felony charge, it has to be more than just a bit of a scuffle between two peers. 
Somebody, presumably the other fella, got really hurt.

Knowing that, will you be able to -especially as a DV survivor- ever completely relax and feel safe around him? 
When he's had a drink or two, or when he got a rollicking at work, or when something else yanks his chain?

Both retail and the service industry can provide long and prosperous careers, for those willing to put their head down, do the hours and start from the bottom up.
Your boyfriend will have to be patient, humble and hardworking to prove to employers that he has truly learned from his past, and is determined to make better choices.
It's been 7 years since his conviction, what has he done to positively improve his life, his prospects and his outlook on the future?

My apologies- I meant to indicate that none of the jobs he’s worked so far have been opportunities he’s seemed to take advantage of to build a career (which could fully be on him), no disrespect to service or retail employees by any accounts. To be truthful, I don’t have enough details about what actually happened to constitute his arrest or conviction. All I know are the details I provided, and that the other student was 17, not yet 18. The whole things seems strange to me- I’ve been keeping some level of distance to try to make a level-headed choice. Thanks for your input. 

[libra]

1 hour ago, Starlight925 said:

Agree.  My dad raised a family of 5 on a retail career with a high school education.  For 50 years.  Hard work, hours, dedication, and lots of love.  So don't diss a retail/service career; he has to be willing to put the work in.

Fully agree. No disrespect at all to retail/service, he just seemingly hasn’t taken advantage of a career path yet- his choice, not the fault of the industries.

[Kwothe28]

2 hours ago, libra said:

Is this something that will affect me long term if I choose to pursue this?

It depends.  For example, you dont just get into fight and get 3 months jail. You would need to do some serious damage. And I kinda doubt he, erm, found budhism in jail. So its a huge risk you are taking. You still have "rose colored glasses" and you are at the beggining so everything is peachy. But when the chips start falling down, that is where you would see the real him. And it maybe wont be a pretty site.

Also, I am sorry, but as a survivor of domestic violence, you are not less, but more inclined toward somebody who is abusive. Subcontiously or otherwise. So I would suggest against it.

[tattoobunnie]

1 hour ago, libra said:

My apologies- I meant to indicate that none of the jobs he’s worked so far have been opportunities he’s seemed to take advantage of to build a career (which could fully be on him), no disrespect to service or retail employees by any accounts. To be truthful, I don’t have enough details about what actually happened to constitute his arrest or conviction. All I know are the details I provided, and that the other student was 17, not yet 18. The whole things seems strange to me- I’ve been keeping some level of distance to try to make a level-headed choice. Thanks for your input. 

One, his felony is public record, and you can look it up by his full name.

And two, most standard background checks only look back 7 years.  So, he could just not check off that box, and explain the light version of what happened when he was 18, and let HR check it off, and nobody be none the wiser.  Once he gets hired, does a good job, even if they find out, legally, they have no grounds to fire him.

So it comes down to how his family and friends view him, and how he treats you, strangers, waiters, how he handles himself when driving.  If he's an even keeled person, and everyone treats him well, and he treats strangers and wait staff, cashiers well, then it most definitely was a dumb mistake.

[Batya33]

For me personally when I was your age and interested in marriage and family to a good match his conviction - especially for a violent assault- and his lack of sufficient work ethic (meaning it would not have been compatible with mine) would have been a total dealbreaker.  Full stop. However I might have been friends or friendly with the person, depending.  

[Andrina]

You're not yet invested in this man, so it'd be so easy to walk away and attempt to date someone who doesn't worry you. Look at him in the present. He makes the bare minimum so it'd be unwise to assume things will improve in that area. It means you won't live as nice of a lifestyle as you would if your partner matches you financially or makes more money. It's not shallow to consider this. Why make sacrifices like not being able to travel unless you're footing the whole bill. Why be with someone who won't even be able to afford putting money away for emergencies or into a retirement fund? 

Life is expensive. To me, why risk betting on a dark horse when there are contenders who show more promise? You just have to be free when meeting the ones who are safer bets.

You haven't even been on one date. A good time to walk away before being intimate and getting emotionally bonded to a high risk person.

[Wiseman2]

Only 8% of Americans are convicted felons. Why choose him rather than the 92% of men who aren't?

Now add to this that he's perpetually unemployed. Please ask yourself if you are settling and rationalizing. You don't have to ask him, you can look up public records. 

Also there are programs for parolees and often conditions of release. Interestingly one of the common ones is "gainful employment".

There are tons of companies that hire felons. In fact there's dedicated job search sites that are considered "felon friendly". His story doesn't add up. 

[rainbowsandroses]

Many people have turned their lives around after serving time for a felony conviction.  He can go back to school, earn a degree (with student loans), and start his own business.  Bartend or wait tables at night while earning his degree.  This is quite doable.

Or, as mentioned, he can get a job in retail, start at the bottom and through diligence, dedication and hard work, work his way up to a management position.  

So, it's not so much that he made a mistake in high school and served time for it, as much as the fact he hasn't done anything to improve his life after his release. I mean come on, it's been seven years.  That would be reason enough for me to say "no thank you."  

I would not advise that he lie (by omission) on his employment application by not checking the felony conviction box.   If the employer were to find out, it's grounds for immediate termination in the U.S. (don't know what country y'all live).  That could screw him more than the felony conviction especially if he's worked there for a number of years. 

From LinkedIn:

"Employers often include a disclaimer that falsely reporting information on a job application or resume can result in termination. Even without such a disclaimer, many employers may choose to terminate an employee if they discover that the employee lied on the application. Many states have at-will employment laws that permit employers to terminate employment for any reason at their will unless it is an illegal reason."

All the best whatever you decide.

[catfeeder]

On 1/5/2024 at 9:09 AM, libra said:

However, he’s struggled with finding gainful employment as the result of his background. He can find lower wage jobs in the service industry or retail without too much difficulty, but nothing that constitutes a long term career so far.

What's the longest he's held a job? Is he working with any programs that place felons in jobs from which they can advance?

I know lots of people who've loved their retail careers. Starting in a store doesn't have to mean staying in a store. If he demonstrates reliability and a willingness to invest himself in a given company, then his experience with that company speaks louder than the felony.

So what's been his chosen path in the last 7 years? THAT is the main thing that would matter to me. If he's full of excuses, I'd walk away from that, no matter how 'nice' he appears.

[Cherylyn]

If it were me,  I'd have distrust issues with your boyfriend. 

Also, if you're envisioning a future with him,  lack of sound economics is a big deal because it impacts your life.  If you're in a committed relationship with him,  economic burdens fall on you.  Do you want to carry the load for both of you?  This is how it will be.  Love doesn't pay the rent.  ☹️

It's better to remain practical and realistic.  Let those thoughts be your guide and decision. 

[Sam1986]

On 1/5/2024 at 4:23 PM, smackie9 said:

You will never be able to travel outside the country for vacations or anything.

Off-topic perhaps, but you definitely can. Countries usually don't share these sorts of records with one another, so the only way they tend to learn about your felony is if you voluntarily list it in the application form when applying for a visa. Me and a friend went to China a couple of years ago, and he has a criminal record (nothing big, tax evasion mostly), and we considered listing it on the visa application form. We opted not to, and as expected, there were no consequences since Chinese authorities would have no way of knowing anyway.

[smackie9]

6 hours ago, Sam1986 said:

Off-topic perhaps, but you definitely can. Countries usually don't share these sorts of records with one another, so the only way they tend to learn about your felony is if you voluntarily list it in the application form when applying for a visa. Me and a friend went to China a couple of years ago, and he has a criminal record (nothing big, tax evasion mostly), and we considered listing it on the visa application form. We opted not to, and as expected, there were no consequences since Chinese authorities would have no way of knowing anyway.

That's pretty risky. 

[tattoobunnie]

On 1/5/2024 at 9:39 PM, rainbowsandroses said:

 I would not advise that he lie (by omission) on his employment application by not checking the felony conviction box.   If the employer were to find out, it's grounds for immediate termination in the U.S. (don't know what country y'all live).  That could screw him more than the felony conviction especially if he's worked there for a number of years. 

I personally knew someone who did this, and legally, they had zero grounds to fire him.  He mentioned an event, and HR just didn't due pursue a deeper dive on this person's past.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, smackie9 said:

That's pretty risky. 

Particularly if you're traveling with your spouse or family or for work where if you're caught you're putting lots of people at great inconvenience or risk.

[boltnrun]

Depends on the job. My job requires an extensive background check as we do work for the government. My previous employer just checked for major felonies and drug arrests. 

[rainbowsandroses]

36 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

I personally knew someone who did this, and legally, they had zero grounds to fire him.  He mentioned an event, and HR just didn't due pursue a deeper dive on this person's past.

Was this in the US?  In the US, an employer doesn't need legal grounds for termination.

Most employment agreements are "at will" meaning either the employer or employee can terminate at any time for any reason. 

The legal reasons for why an employer cannot terminate involve, race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, disability 

Lying on an application is certainly grounds for termination.  I DO agree that not all employers will terminate for lying though as in your friend's case.

However, it's a risk to lie and don't advise it, that's all I'm saying. 

Again in the US.

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Was this in the US?  In the US, an employer doesn't need legal grounds for termination.

Most employment agreements are "at will" meaning either the employer or employee can terminate at any time for any reason. 

The legal reasons for why an employer cannot terminate involve, race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, disability 

Lying on an application is certainly grounds for termination.  I DO agree that not all employers will terminate for lying though as in your friend's case.

However, it's a risk to lie and don't advise it, that's all I'm saying. 

Again in the US.

I don't think this requires even going there.  Her date lacks in the work ethic/ambition area which is somewhat related I guess to his conviction but who knows (meaning his conviction makes it harder to get certain jobs).  I have an acquaintance who is also a convicted felon (I believe felon level) and after her second conviction she now advocates on behalf of incarcerated women and does what she can to work for a living -she's a divorced mom of a teenager.  And she's middle aged.  Given this person's conviction and his lack of conviction to work hard I'd take a pass- no question.