What should I say to my best friend?

[Tinydance]

So I've been best friends with "B" for 13 years. I'm 38 and she's a bit younger, 33. We are super close besties and she has been there for me over the years and I have for her. She has bipolar disorder and suffers from depression and anxiety. She was seeing a new psychologist and the psychologist said something like that she either has borderline personality disorder, or she has BPD traits. B was really angry that the psychologist was suggesting anything about BPD. She said the psychologist was a total a - hole and changed to another psychologist.

The friendship has mostly been smooth sailing but there is one thing about B that really bothers me. I actually do see it as potentially a BPD trait but I'm not a doctor obviously. When B feels upset about something (sometimes imagined), what she does is she deliberately ignores your messages and sometimes won't reply for a number of days. So being passive aggressive and giving silent treatment. 

For example, one time we were texting a lot back and forth and I was replying immediately to all her messages. We talked for a while and at the end she said: "I'm feeling depressed today." I needed to do something so I accidentally forgot to reply. Then maybe 1 - 2 days later, I messaged her and said: "Hi, how are you going? How are you feeling now?" And I received zero response for three days. I messaged again and I said: "Is everything OK? Are you upset I didn't reply that you were depressed?" And she was like: "Yeah I was annoyed you didn't reply." So she ignored me deliberately but I was actually the one who reached out asking how she's doing.

Also last year I was in the late stages of my pregnancy and she knew I hadn't really taken many pregnant photos of myself. We were going to a cherry blossom orchard and she said her boyfriend at the time was coming with his professional camera and was going to take nice photos of us. I thought I had noticed that since I got pregnant I wasn't hearing from her as much and she seemed jealous. I messaged her saying: "Hey sorry if I'm wrong but I just noticed I'm not hearing from you as much since my pregnancy." She texted that she was really hurt I said that, etc. I said well sorry if I got it wrong but I just got that vibe but maybe I was incorrect. 

Anyway, on the day of the cherry blossoms festival, she messaged me that she wasn't coming. Our mutual friend told me that she told him she wasn't coming coz she was mad at me and "we had a fight." I didn't even think we had an actual fight and obviously she didn't come to punish me and probably didn't want her boyfriend to take photos of me, as was originally promised.

Anyway, fast forward to now. My Dad isn't that old but he's currently dying of late stage terminal cancer. We aren't that close coz he never took much interest in me. I always found this very hurtful and really wanted a relationship with my Dad. Which my best friend knew.

My Dad became severely unwell but refused to go to hospital or allow anyone to come and see him. He was in very bad state and my Mum was doing 24/7 physical personal care for him and hurt her back. Finally he agreed to be hospitalised and they put him on morphine and all sorts of other things. He calmed down on morphine and said I could visit him. So I immediately rushed there and spent three days staying with my Mum and visiting my Dad in hospital. The doctor said he didn't have long left. So my Mum and I went to see two palliative care places and a church and cemetery.

I wasn't really replying to my best friend much during that time. But I did let her know exactly what was going on. When I returned home I was messaging her and asking after some cats she's fostering. She asked me if I want to come over to see the cats. I forgot to reply for a day so she messaged saying she's not happy I didn't reply and she wants a yes or no. I said I'm sorry and that I hadn't been good at replying to people but I know that's not an excuse. I said I'd love to come see the cats. She sent me a message saying something like: "It's really hurtful that you take so long to reply to me. It makes me feel like you're not interested in me and especially if it's about me or my life. I already made other plans but I was just telling you how I often feel."

I sent a bunch of messages in response saying I thought I was showing interest because I was asking her questions. But that it's true that I'd dropped off due to what was going on with my Dad. She didn't respond at all. A couple of days later I messaged asking would she be free to go for a Christmas picnic with our friends. She didn’t reply for 1+ days. 

So now I asked if I can discuss this with her on the phone or in person. She said we can have a phone call tonight. 

I'm actually really annoyed that she gives me the silent treatment. I want to set a boundary that it's not OK to do that. I think because of her mental health she sometimes takes things really personally and thinks it's about her or it's deliberate.

I could be wrong but I think this might be why her last two relationships didn't work out. She said if she felt upset with her boyfriend, she deliberately took long to reply to his messages. And when her last boyfriend wasn't in the mood for sex, she'd be like: "Why don't you want to have sex? You don't like me and don't find me attractive?" But really he probably just wasn't in the mood at that particular time.

What do you think I should say to her? I feel like I need to be careful what I say because she's really sensitive.

[Capricorn3]

I don't know, I'm on the fence with this one.  From what you say, I get the impression that this friend is a lot of work and eventually it becomes too exhausting to deal with.  It's like walking on eggshells all the time.  Sometimes there comes a time when the friendship no longer works.  It's sad, but that is just the way of life.  You need to decide which way you want to go with this.   I unfortunately have no idea really as to what you can say to her. Personally, I would probably do the slow fade over time.

[Tinydance]

5 minutes ago, Capricorn3 said:

I don't know, I'm on the fence with this one.  From what you say, I get the impression that this friend is a lot of work and eventually it becomes too exhausting to deal with.  It's like walking on eggshells all the time.  Sometimes there comes a time when the friendship no longer works.  It's sad, but that is just the way of life.  You need to decide which way you want to go with this.   I unfortunately have no idea really as to what you can say to her. Personally, I would probably do the slow fade over time.

Thanks so much. She's actually not a lot of work the majority of the time. She's a really good listener and just listens to you. And I'm very talkative so it's worked well lol She doesn't not reply to messages deliberately that often but because we've been friends for 13 years, she has done it a number of times over time. She seems to take things very personally sometimes and especially in this case she knew exactly why I wasn't replying much.

Also I think maybe there was a high precedent set because we always talked a lot, by text and on the phone and hung out a lot. Maybe recently it became not as much because I have a 1-year-old son and obviously he takes a lot of my time. And my Dad has been really sick with cancer the past year. So maybe things are different now but it's not deliberate on my part. 

I think I'm going to set the boundary that I'm not OK with her giving me silent treatment. I'll ask her to discuss things with me properly instead.

[Wiseman2]

51 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

What do you think I should say to her? I feel like I need to be careful what I say because she's really sensitive.

Sorry this is happening, especially with your father. Please attend to yourself and your family. Unfortunately the friend had a lot of issues.

The main one is chronic instability. It doesn't really matter what she does or doesn't have in addition to bipolar disorder. Being unreliable, moody, argumentive and difficult are all part of it. Please don't take it personally. 

.Try to step away from some of her chronic drama. It's always going to be there. All you can do is be neutral. And most importantly take care of yourself. 

[Coily]

Really sorry to hear about your father. Wishing you and your mum all the best in this turmoil.

I don’t envy you having to navigate a delicate friend here. Having dealt with a former friend with diagnosed BPD, it’s a bumpy ride. So from my experience, I would suggest that you gently but firmly broach how unnecessary the silent treatment is. 

Mix in how you value the friendship, in my case it helped keep the shifting of gears to building up thinking there was an accusation hidden in the discussion.

I would also lay out what’s going on with your family, in overly boring but also vague detail. To keep them feeling like they still had your confidences.

TLDR: Ensure that your friend feels like they still have a place in your life, but you remain firm about your expectations. 

It’s unfortunately easy for people like this to think things are shifting into an accusation, and unless you reassure on details.

 

[Tinydance]

17 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening, especially with your father. Please attend to yourself and your family. Unfortunately the friend had a lot of issues.

The main one is chronic instability. It doesn't really matter what she does or doesn't have in addition to bipolar disorder. Being unreliable, moody, argumentive and difficult are all part of it. Please don't take it personally. 

.Try to step away from some of her chronic drama. It's always going to be there. All you can do is be neutral. And most importantly take care of yourself. 

Thanks wiseman, really appreciate it. Yeah this behaviour has potentially got a bit worse recently. It probably was propelled by me not being as available due to what was going on with my Dad and my friend took it personally. Also I think maybe she doesn't like that things have changed maybe because I'm now a mother. But that's not my fault.

[Tinydance]

29 minutes ago, Coily said:

Really sorry to hear about your father. Wishing you and your mum all the best in this turmoil.

I don’t envy you having to navigate a delicate friend here. Having dealt with a former friend with diagnosed BPD, it’s a bumpy ride. So from my experience, I would suggest that you gently but firmly broach how unnecessary the silent treatment is. 

Mix in how you value the friendship, in my case it helped keep the shifting of gears to building up thinking there was an accusation hidden in the discussion.

I would also lay out what’s going on with your family, in overly boring but also vague detail. To keep them feeling like they still had your confidences.

TLDR: Ensure that your friend feels like they still have a place in your life, but you remain firm about your expectations. 

It’s unfortunately easy for people like this to think things are shifting into an accusation, and unless you reassure on details.

 

Thanks! Well she does know exactly what's going on with my family because I've been very honest about it. I actually do really value the friendship so I would be sincere in saying that. I guess I'm just trying to think of ways to approach the silent treatment thing gently.

[Tinydance]

OK so update. We talked on the phone but my friend said she wasn't happy with the texts I sent when she told me how she felt. This is basically what I sent: "Well, I thought I was showing interest in your life because I was actually asking you questions about how was your dance show, how are the cats, or asking "sup?". Like I am actually interested in what you're up to but you didn't really say what you were up to. I'm not sure if it's maybe like a two way thing and maybe because of me as well but when we went to the design market I kinda felt like you didn't want to hang out very long. Coz we ate lunch and quickly after finished eating you said you wanted to go home. I actually wanted to keep hanging out longer. I know you said you had a video call with your sister, but it was like 1:30 p.m. and the video call you said was at 7:00 p.m." Then I just explained how I've just been really preoccupied with what's been going on with my Dad.

Also she said I've not been replying to her messages much for a few months but I don't think that was the case. But what was weird is I organised a little Christmas picnic and asked if she's free that evening. She said she's free but not sure if she'll come. Like, she says I'm not paying her attention but I literally invited her to something that I organised just for my close friends.

[Batya33]

Are you really "forgetting" this often to reply to her or are you so tired of the eggshells thing that you somehow are partly forgetting -intentionally? I wouldn't blame you but something to think about.

I personally -given her temperament -would never have accepted the photos offer or accepted it for free.  It was unreliable of her but the whole thing was too delicate and sensitive -you being pregnant and glowing and she then has to watch you posing for these gorgeous photos (I know some moms do professional type photos during and with their newborn -never occurred to me to do pregnancy photos let alone in any professional sense so it's a bit off my radar).  I think after she offered she realized it would make her feel badly.  She treated this in an immature way but given what you knew I'd have politely declined and if you really wanted photos found another way.  

I'm glad you spoke and invited her.  Let's see if she shows up.  She says she wants X but when you offer X turns out she doesn't really want that. You already have a 1 year old ..... know what I mean?

[Tinydance]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Are you really "forgetting" this often to reply to her or are you so tired of the eggshells thing that you somehow are partly forgetting -intentionally? I wouldn't blame you but something to think about.

I personally -given her temperament -would never have accepted the photos offer or accepted it for free.  It was unreliable of her but the whole thing was too delicate and sensitive -you being pregnant and glowing and she then has to watch you posing for these gorgeous photos (I know some moms do professional type photos during and with their newborn -never occurred to me to do pregnancy photos let alone in any professional sense so it's a bit off my radar).  I think after she offered she realized it would make her feel badly.  She treated this in an immature way but given what you knew I'd have politely declined and if you really wanted photos found another way.  

I'm glad you spoke and invited her.  Let's see if she shows up.  She says she wants X but when you offer X turns out she doesn't really want that. You already have a 1 year old ..... know what I mean?

Lol Well it's not my place to diagnose but I think maybe she does have BPD. It's really weird because she wasn't as severe in these behaviours towards me before but I think maybe she was doing it to her partners. She did tell me that she wasn't replying to some of their messages on purpose. And she said that she always wanted to bring up any problems and keep trying to resolve them. Which sounds like a good thing except she seemed to bring it up to them all the time.

In all honesty I seriously didn't notice that I wasn't replying that much. None of my friends have said anything like that at all and I have a lot of friends. I'd think I'd get at least some other feedback if I was doing this to people. She's just acting really bizarre. She said I don't take interest in her so I replied that I am interested and was trying to show it by asking questions. But she said she doesn't like my answer. I'm getting stressed out and feeling like I keep getting accused but I don't even really know what I did?

[Seraphim]

Seriously , I would sit her down and say not everything is about you and the measure of a friendship is not how fast someone can answer. I am going through a lot with my family right now that is deeply distressing to me. 
I totally understand my father died 3 years ago. I didn’t have a good relationship with my dad as you probably know but it hurt me a lot . 
 

She sounds like too much work to me. 

[Wiseman2]

32 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

 She's just acting really bizarre. . I'm getting stressed out and feeling like I keep getting accused .

Please take a break from this rather than falling for the bait. 

Manufacturing crisis, chaos, conflict are par for the course with her disorder as well as erratic, bizarre behavior and noncompliance with treatment.

Step back rather than leaning into this. It's hard to make sense out of nonsense so please don't try. 

[Tinydance]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Please take a break from this rather than falling for the bait. 

Manufacturing crisis, chaos, conflict are par for the course with her disorder as well as erratic, bizarre behavior and noncompliance with treatment.

Step back rather than leaning into this. It's hard to make sense out of nonsense so please don't try. 

Well she's complying with the treatment really well so that's not really the problem. I'm just confused as I just honestly didn't notice that I wasn't responding to her as much or seemed disinterested. I wasn't disinterested so I don't really understand what could give this impression. Anyway I guess I'll watch this space and see what happens.

[Seraphim]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Please take a break from this rather than falling for the bait. 

Manufacturing crisis, chaos, conflict are par for the course with her disorder as well as erratic, bizarre behavior and noncompliance with treatment.

Step back rather than leaning into this. It's hard to make sense out of nonsense so please don't try. 

I agree, you will never make sense of this nonsense. And it is manufactured nonsense and manipulation whether it is consciously or not . 

[Tinydance]

23 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Seriously , I would sit her down and say not everything is about you and the measure of a friendship is not how fast someone can answer. I am going through a lot with my family right now that is deeply distressing to me. 
I totally understand my father died 3 years ago. I didn’t have a good relationship with my dad as you probably know but it hurt me a lot . 
 

She sounds like too much work to me. 

The thing is I have some close/best friends I've known for 20 + years and the friendship just exists and doesn't need some kind of extra effort or something. The conversation normally just ebbs and flows. Like, one of us might start a conversation and chat back and forth and it just drops off. Then some days or weeks might pass and might start a conversation again. I don't really feel pressure to constantly reply unless there was something important said or I was asked questions or actually trying to make plans. Nobody will actually "end" a conversation by saying: "OK bye!" Usually one person will just stop replying and that's how the conversation ends.

So I thought that’s what was going on and didn't think I was coming across as that I'm ignoring the messages or I don't care. We were even still catching up in person so obviously I was responding and organising the plans. It's also unlike me to receive one message and ignore it. Normally if I forget to reply to one it's because there was already a back and forth conversation going and I "dropped off".

[Seraphim]

Just now, Tinydance said:

The thing is I have some close/best friends I've known for 20 + years and the friendship just exists and doesn't need some kind of extra effort or something. The conversation normally just ebbs and flows. Like, one of us might start a conversation and chat back and forth and it just drops off. Then some days or weeks might pass and might start a conversation again. I don't really feel pressure to constantly reply unless there was something important said or I was asked questions or actually trying to make plans. Nobody will actually "end" a conversation by saying: "OK bye!" Usually one person will just stop replying and that's how the conversation ends.

So I thought that’s what was going on and didn't think I was coming across as that I'm ignoring the messages or I don't care. We were even still catching up in person so obviously I was responding and organising the plans. It's also unlike me to receive one message and ignore it. Normally if I forget to reply to one it's because there was already a back and forth conversation going and I "dropped off".

She is using the “ silent treatment “ as a punishment for you because you are not hoping to her strange sense of friendship. That is like the set of 5 year olds I have sitting in front me at present crying and whining and saying you can’t be my friend. Really, it is. It is a tantrum. 

[Tinydance]

3 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

She is using the “ silent treatment “ as a punishment for you because you are not hoping to her strange sense of friendship. That is like the set of 5 year olds I have sitting in front me at present crying and whining and saying you can’t be my friend. Really, it is. It is a tantrum. 

Well in all fairness we actually did use to talk basically every day, called on the phone once or twice a week and catch up once or twice a week. So I understand there's a high expectation. The problem is I haven't been able to live up to it since I had my son and also my Dad got the cancer. She said "I don't think it's to do with your Dad because this has been happening for a few months". Like how does she know it's not because of my Dad? In fact I'm pretty sure that even if I did withdraw to some extent that it actually was because of my Dad. 

Also she said I'd ask a question but then sometimes she'd reply but I didn't comment on what she said. So it seemed like asking the question was fake and I didn't really want to know the answer. But why would I do that? I don't have to ask anything if I'm not interested. If I'm not interested I wouldn't ask. 

And she said: "This happened for a few months and now I'm finally saying something." Like I genuinely had no idea she had this impression and she said she was upset for months. What's the problem to let me know sooner? How am I meant to fix something if I don't even know what I'm meant to be fixing?

[Batya33]

I agree with Seraphim and she’s using the silly excuse of how she believes in expressing her feelings in a friendship to further her self centered manipulative agenda. I’d avoid accepting any more favors from her though because that just ends in more annoying look at all I’ve done for you nonsense. 

[Seraphim]

Personally for me if someone was a new mum and their parent was dying I would assume they had a lot on their plate and would ask if they needed anything and other than that would assume they would get back to me when they could. 

[Lambert]

hi @Tinydance

I'm sorry you're going through this and I hope you're dad is comfortable and not suffering. 

I have had friendships end.  From deal breakers to the end of years of constant push and pull.

My perspective is- what are your boundaries? What qualifies as a best friend?

I had a friend with mental health issues- depression, anxiety, and who knew what else.  I started to realize I can't help another person's mental health and I certainly can't let their's impact mine.

Maybe you can still be friends but best friends might be too much. I would pull back and demote the relationship in my life. 

[Coily]

Something I have been pondering on with this, as I'm navigating a difficult friendship myself at the moment.

In my case my friend is more in your position; the nature of communication has changed from him. We used to discuss in-depth topics, used to talk about where we were in our lives, troubles at work, and irreverent humor etc. I stepped back my communication out of respect with his changes in life, the topics started shifting to more bland things, now it's basically texts about instagram posts.

I don't know if that was a conscious shift, or accidental in what he wants to talk about; but I have no interest in these very surface level interactions. The conversations went from meaningful to little more than a bit of social media spam. Which leads me to wonder if there is an unconscious shift between the two of you? Could she is perceiving your communication style as missing something? Throw in her mental health, and maybe she can't quite grasp why these changes have happened?

 

[Batya33]

I too wanted to add that I am sending good thoughts and hugs about your dad!

[Capricorn3]

7 hours ago, Seraphim said:

Personally for me if someone was a new mum and their parent was dying I would assume they had a lot on their plate and would ask if they needed anything and other than that would assume they would get back to me when they could. 

^ This. 100%.

[boltnrun]

I'm sorry about your father.

I have a very good friend who will literally take up to six weeks to reply to a message even when I can see she's online and is posting on Facebook. But I know she's depressed and unhappy (due to something I know a lot about as I saw it happening), so I don't chastise her for taking so long. I figure she'll answer when she's ready. I have also said I'm thinking about visiting her city and she doesn't respond, so I just don't see her when I go. I figure if she wanted to see me she would respond. It's kind of an odd friendship but I accept that this is just how she is.

Not sure if any of that is helpful but some friends are just different. 

[LootieTootie]

I get why your friend is mad. You left her hanging. It's like you guys have always had this back and forth in text (conversational) and she's used to it, then you left her when she got vulnerable. Then maybe she starts seeing that Tiny leaving her on read more and it makes her sad that her bestie isnt there for her.

I say that above BUT I also think your friend is very selfish and only thinking of her needs. You're the one who just had a baby and dealing with a dying loved one for Petes sake. I think this friend is showing her true colors and she is someone best to demote to an acquittance.