We are a great match, but she is unsure about having kids (37m, 30f)

[Sam1986]

Hi, and thank you for having the patience to read this and any advice you may have.

I haven't posted here in years, mostly because I have become a lot more experienced in dating, and as such no longer tend to wade into bad situations like I used to (partially due to former advice here). 🙂
With that out of the way however, I've found myself in a new conundrum that I don't really have a ready answer to (I think), and I'd love to get some feedback and read the viewpoints from others who perhaps have been in the same situtation that I've now found myself:

In January this year, I (37m) met a girl (30f) on Tinder.
Our first date was nothing short of amazing.
I usually cut my first dates short, but we ended up on a 7-8 hour first date as we just had so much interesting stuff to talk about and neither wanted to leave early.
The same repeated for the next dates, and we gradually started spending more time together and sleeping over at each other's place.
Long story short, she is amazing, and luckily for me, that feeling seems very mutual.
The chemistry is there, the sex is great, we have common interests, neither of us are controlling or jealous, we have never had a big fight because we tend to get along well, and we are overall just a very good match on most areas.
We've even talked about moving in together, as things are just working so well between us.
Except for one issue - having children.

Over the summer she told me that she knew that I wanted children (I was upfront with that from the start), and while she had tried to get used to that thought because things were growing serious, she had to admit that she was still on the fence.
She hasn't stated outright that she doesn't want children one day, but she can't guarantee that she will want it one day either.
I've asked her why this is so, and she doesn't really know why.
She does have a tiny bit of a troubled relationship with her mother, and has said that it was her father that pressured her mother into having her and her twin sister (she has a great relationship to her father though).
She also worries if she'll be a good mother, and that she perhaps isn't cut out to be one (maybe she worries that she'll become like her mother, who knows, this is just speculation on my part and that's always a risky thing to do).

However, her decision leaves me in a particularly difficult position, because I know that I want children myself one day.
I have tried to be somewhat accomodating in that I understand her position perfectly (she recently graduated, got into a new competitive job as a journalist which means working a lot of late evenings), and that I am in no way trying to pressure her into having children now at the expense of her career.
I am content with giving her time and having to wait a few years (4-5 if need be), as long as I know that it's a common goal that we share and something that is in the cards if we are still in a relationship after those years have passed.
However, she has said that she cannot guarantee that she will ever want children, and at that point I have (so far) decided that I cannot pursue a relationship any further.
If I stay in the relationship any further I think that it would probably cause a lot of future friction on my part, as the relationship would otherwise feel kind of hollow and pointless I guess.
 

The thing that makes this decision really difficult though, is that I know from experience that finding someone you mesh this well with on an inter-personal level, is an exceedingly rare gift in life.
I've crushed on girls before that obviously (in hindsight) weren't that into me, and it's caused a lot of drama.
The same has been true of the reverse, where girls have been more into me than I was into them (unfortunately this was somewhat true of my last 3 year relationship with another ex).
This is one of those rare instances where everything just clicked.

We still have some occasional contact to this day (my most recent flame that is), and we both miss each other a lot.
And while my brain feels like stopping this was a good decision, my heart is not in it at all.
This again makes meeting someone new rather difficult, because they have a rather high bar to clear after I met this girl.

I hope that anyone has some feedback on this.
Have you been in a similar situation perhaps?
How did that work out, and was the issue resolved?

[Kwothe28]

There are some things that are non- negotiable. Kids are one of them. She wants to chase the career and doesnt want to be a mother. There is no point in you pressuring her to be one nore in her asking you to postpone your dreams of a kids when she isnt sure she wants to have kids at all ever. So yes, breaking up was a good decision. No matter how well you two got along. Because later down the line it would have only come to resentment from one side if one of the sides made the compromise there to other. Either her for having kids or you for staying with her and not having one. 

[Wiseman2]

15 minutes ago, Sam1986 said:

 January this year, I (37m) met a girl (30f) on Tinder.We've even talked about moving in together, as things are just working so well between us.Except for one issue - having children.

Sorry this is happening.  It's  been less than a year of dating and it's good you can talk openly about important issues such as children. However talking about moving in together seems to be putting a lot of pressure on both of you. 

She hasn't decided about children so if you feel that's a nonnegotiable incompatibility, you may have to set each other free. 

[Batya33]

I know many women who want kids with their whole heart and also chase their career.  In fact most men do this.  This has nothing to do with her career. I had an intense career for 15 years -more than full time -and grad school -really intense! -prior to that.  It never ever got in the way of my dream and goal of being a mother if I could meet the right person to marry and have a family with. I was all in with parenthood for decades before I was lucky enough to become a mom at 42. 

I would have run away so so fast from any man who "wasn't sure" about wanting a family.  My standard was -if you're not 110% into it we're not compatible.  And when I was into my 30s I didn't have 4-5 years to wait for someone on the fence.  You know - men in their early 40s are at higher risk of conceiving a child with special needs? Are you ready for that situation - many are or they simply want to be a parent whether the child has special needs or disabilities or is typically developing.  Consider that.

She is being totally honest.  She is not saying "not now since I am up for a promotion in 2 years, once I have that under my belt I can step away/decrease my hours some if needed/switch jobs" -she is stalling.  Her heart and soul isn't all in.  We are in our late 50s. Our son is 14. Believe me even with being all in it's REALLY HARD.  And really really rewarding and really really worth it when both parents want to be parents with their whole heart and soul. 

My son acted like a jerk yesterday -much of the day!! - and knew it - and knew we were still all in with him.  That we weren't regretful even a little little bit that he is off this week from school and we have less me time/ couple time.  I've never ever regretted switching my full time job to parenthood from age 42-49 (well ok - by age 48 while still interviewing I was like ok enough already need to return to my prior career) - and my husband - his parenthood certainly affected his career and studies -meaning sleep deprivation, stress, foregoing certain opportunities - and he's all in.  And it's still hard. 

Walk away from anyone who isn't all in especially a woman in her 30s.  

[Sam1986]

21 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

This has nothing to do with her career.

It might and it might not, that's only something that she can know for certain.
I did however inquire into her reasoning, and mostly she says that she worries she won't be a good mother, or can't really picture it. However, she also mentioned once or twice that in her last LTR (4-5 years), she thought she'd eventually end up as a mother together with her ex. Also relevant is the fact that she "doesn't know what she wants in life", as is something I can somewhat relate to as she's fresh out of college. She did for instance apply to diplomat's programme at the foreign department (state department in the US), which is usually indicative of someone who wants to explore the possibilities in life and is not ready to settle for the next few years.

Either way this situation is terrible, even though I currently haven't been in contact with her for a few weeks. We are both super into each other while there are no red flags (other than the issue above, which is a big one), and this is generally a rare gift in life. 

I hope that she will change her view, but so far she hasn't and I therefore have taken the difficult choice of exploring other options. That being said, speaking of several years worth of dating, I have never clicked so well with anyone and this is the part that pains me so much. I inadvertently end up comparing other prospects to the chemistry we had (they all fall short by a mile), and I'm ultimately dreading the prospect of having to wade through the mess that is online dating for another few years.

[Batya33]

11 minutes ago, Sam1986 said:

However, she also mentioned once or twice that in her last LTR (4-5 years), she thought she'd eventually end up as a mother together with her ex.

Ick!! End up as a mother?? End up? IMO that is so unfair to a child. "Oh yes I always knew I'd end up having a kid at some point......" - kids will absorb that in how she parents.  With rare exception.  I get totally she is an awesome match in every other way.  If you wake up tomorrow and definitely do not want to be a father ever -yes.  Otherwise I'm really sorry about this and I wouldn't wait around for her to change her mind.  I met many men through dating sites.  I dated on and off for 24 years.  It can be a mess.  What's a worse mess is having a child or creating a child with a reluctant partner.  Much much worse because you're affecting an innocent child's life knowing at the starting gate his parent had to be "convinced" to have him.  

I explored tons of life AND wanted to be a mother.  I'd never have become a mother if I thought it wasn't part of exploring life and having adventures.  I left my first career at 25 years old to go to grad school and start a different career. I traveled to different countries, volunteered and did internships in diverse areas of my major city, was splashed all over the media -for a good reason -as a teenager - this has nothing to do with not wanting to be a mother. 

Are men who explore life presumed not to want to be a father? For sure if she was nomadic and moving to a different city or country every 6 months to a year that's a bit less conducive to being a parent but I know of parents who traveled all over with young kids -not just during the pandemic but otherwise.  A person who wants to be a parent with his or her whole heart makes the sacrifices necessary but there need be no stopping of exploring life.  Spend a day with a 3 year old - you will explore life and go on multiple adventures unless the child is feeling poorly.

She does know what she wants in life in the sense that she wants -this is "freedom" to her- the freedom to explore without being pregnant, without pursuing invitro or adoption or surrogacy, without having a newborn or infant or toddler - she sees this as an impediment not a joy, as an inconvenience, a sacrifice -something she likely will -oh well -"end up" doing. 

Her perspective on freedom is not consistent with being a parent.  I gave up a lot of freedom to be a parent -and even with a teenager I still do.  I didn't have the freedom yesterday to work on an intense work deadline at my actual desk because my son wouldn't be quiet enough so I had to sit on my bed in another room with headphones in to block out the noise and focus on work.  Quite restrictive.  Oh well. 

She chooses not to be restricted in that way which is totally fine. I respect all people who prefer not to have kids or are reluctant or unsure.  Total respect.  Doesn't mean you have to be partnered with her and give up your dream of parenthood.

I'll add -I really don't know of any new or potential parent who didn't worry about whether they would make a good parent.  Just like with certain careers - don't most people new at a career worry -like that impostor syndrome? It's normal.  It's also totally typical to forge ahead despite the "worry" and do what it takes to do one's best. 

Am I a good mother? I think so.  I have my moments, I have my hours -my son tells me all the time I'm a good or great mom and that he is well aware being a good mom means I have to be Very Annoying. He knows when I don't do well -I tell him - I apologize and we move on.  Yesterday at work I caught someone else's error before the project was put in final.  Had I not it would have been -not good -embarrassing - and you know what the world would not have ended then either. 

Does your GF let her worries about her work and job prospects stop her? No because she really wants it badly.  She doesn't want to badly be a mother so these I Worry roadblocks are a way to avoid.  IMO.

[Wiseman2]

26 minutes ago, Sam1986 said:

 I currently haven't been in contact with her for a few weeks. I therefore have taken the difficult choice of exploring other options. 

Did you break up or are you taking a break? If you haven't spoken in weeks and you're exploring other options, it seems like it's over, so it's unclear why you're wondering if she'll change her mind? 

[Sam1986]

43 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Ick!! End up as a mother?? End up? IMO that is so unfair to a child.

I guess that one didn't translate too well. What I meant was more along the line of "thought she'd become a mother". My bad.
 

26 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Did you break up or are you taking a break? If you haven't spoken in weeks and you're exploring other options, it seems like it's over, so it's unclear why you're wondering if she'll change her mind? 

It does seem that way unfortunately. We've spoken about how this probably has no future, and she knows that I am using online dating apps again. She has come to accept that, but we have kept in touch over the last few months (usually texts about how we miss each other). I think she wants me to change my mind (as in, accepting the uncertainty) while I'm hoping that she changes her mind (giving me a firm yes, even if it means way further in the future). Last month she even asked if I wanted to come as her +1 to a cocktail party with her journalist colleagues, so it's not like she's trying to hide me as her secret fling or anything like that (when we went to a similar party half a year ago, she had obviously presented me earlier as her boyfriend, as that was the "role" everyone referred to me as. Which at the time was more than fine with me, and made me quite happy).

[Sam1986]

I should mention that part of the reason why I'm even posting here is because a friend of mine thinks I should stick it out further and see what comes out of it.

He has given me some solid advice before in my last relationship, but in this case I feel like he's off the mark. But for all I know I might be off the mark as well, so any 3rd party viewpoints are much appreciated, especially if someone has had a similar experience (regardless of outcome!).

[Seraphim]

I think the strategy of hoping someone changes their mind is futile. Kids are not something people should be forced out of wanting or forced into wanting . If you want kids and she doesn’t, she’s actually not the perfect person for you.

[Sam1986]

8 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

I think the strategy of hoping someone changes their mind is futile. Kids are not something people should be forced out of wanting or forced into wanting .

This is my viewpoint as well, and something I've communicated to her and which she seems to understand (though not want, just like me).

At this point I just keep that option open for the future, and try to focus as much on myself and dating others at this point, even though it's pretty difficult.

Either way, thanks for all the replies here so far! 🙂

[Batya33]

9 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

I think the strategy of hoping someone changes their mind is futile. Kids are not something people should be forced out of wanting or forced into wanting . If you want kids and she doesn’t, she’s actually not the perfect person for you.

Same. Since you are looking to date others I’d stay away from her. Tell her if she ever changes her mind and cannot wait to have the opportunity to be a parent with you as part of a family within the next year or so she should contact you and if you’re still interested and available you’ll consider it. Someone I know did that. He didn’t want more kids - he had 4 and was 12 years older than she. And a widow. She definitely wanted to be a mom and was pushing 40. He changed his mind. They’ve been married over a dozen years and have twins. 

[boltnrun]

My father married his third wife with the absolute requirement that she have another child (she already had two of her own). She was very reluctant but agreed (mainly because my father presented himself as wealthy...he was far from wealthy). She did have a child and once their marriage ended (shocking, I know 🙄) she sent the child to my father for a "summer vacation" when he was three and never had him return. She basically abandoned him to his father. THAT is what can happen when someone doesn't really want a child. Oh, and he was all kinds of messed up and only started doing better when he was in his late 20s. 

You two need to let each other go. Of course you aren't finding anyone who measures up. You haven't moved on from her. It's like going on dates with her standing behind your chair. It's important to reach acceptance and more forward. 

[tattoobunnie]

You may be with a person who wants kids, and winds up changing their mind, or cannot have them.  My hubs told me he didn't want kids.  So, I told him we should break up.  But, he kept insisting to not break up, and we had our first kid a year later.  We have two kids that other than getting married were the best decisions in our lives.  

I'm sorry to say, but you two are not a match. 

Either way, you never know down the road.  A few months after my hubs and I got together at 32 (we hadn't seen each other for 14 years prior; long story), my body ovulated for a entire freaking month.  Sorry for the TMI. 

Things can change in a few years, but don't wait! 4 or 5 years is too long to wait to be told "no" again.

[bluecastle]

Hard situation, without question. 

All things being what they are, I think you've made the right choice, as it seems you two are in very different mindsets when it comes to children—more different, in ways, than you're even acknowledging. You know you want them, simple as that. She, meanwhile, is in a vague place—one I can very much relate to. I don't think it's nearly as complex or mysterious as you're making it out to be. She simply doesn't know, doesn't want to guarantee anything, and needs for that to be...absolutely fine.

Think of her mindset as being as equally simple and as concrete as yours, meaning (as it seems you already know) that you can't ask her to skip past this stage and assure youth, at 34 or 37, she will know she want kids. That's not possible, as it doesn't allow her to be where she is, right now, and evolve into wherever she will be organically. As such, it seems that a critical ingredient that you both need to be able to relax into the wonders of a long term relationship is not something you can provide the other. 

For whatever it's worth, when I was your age I met a few wonderful women and had some lovely connections in dating that didn't pan out because they were adamant they wanted children while I was not. I'm very happy that we didn't sidestep that in favor of everything else that was sparkly. 

 

[Batya33]

My friend married in her late 20s agreeing to have one child -only one -with her husband -same age-ish.  She definitely wanted to be a mom and definitely only wanted one child -I believe for career related reasons.  He agreed. They had a beautiful daughter.  When the daughter was around 7 the husband apparently changed his mind and wanted another child.  They divorced, he remarried and has another child -she met her second husband on match who is happy being a stepfather to her daughter.  It's all good -for them - and I feel for the daughter who had to go through all this. 

[Andrina]

Yes, that's a major issue that should be a dealbreaker when two people aren't on the exact same page in the present.

Hard to go cold turkey in no longer communicating when there were no negative feelings, so you kept a tether. But now it's time to sever that telephone line because it's both not good for your closure, but also not fair to a new dating prospect. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it if you started dating a lovely lady and found out she was speaking to an ex and telling him how much she misses him. Impossible to open the front door to new possibilities when you have one foot stuck squarely in the back door.

Besides OLD, try some Meetup.com groups for singles in your age group. Good luck.

[smackie9]

Sorry your friend is wrong. Your GF is 30 not 20, she knows she doesn't want kids. She's letting go easily here so she and you are not the one for each other. At 37 you really don't have that time to wait and see. As you get older, it's going to be harder to meet someone to have kids with.

[MissCanuck]

On 11/21/2023 at 2:03 PM, Sam1986 said:

I hope that she will change her view

Why would she change her view any more than you would change yours? 

I speak from experience on this. When I was this woman's age, I was also very uncertain that I wanted children.  I leaned more towards "no" than "yes,", for a variety of reasons. 

I am now 42 and so grateful I followed my instict and decided not to have kids. I never changed my mind about it, and now more than ever the thought of having children in my life is just not appealing and I have no desire for them. 

Are there exceptions? Sure. Some people's feelings change over time, but at your age, I wouldn't risk it. You may find yourself in your early or mid-40s by then and surrounded by women who are past that point biologically, or already have their own and don't want more. 

It was best to end this. You need to stop seeing her altogether as well if you hope to move on from her. 

[kim42]

I think you did the right thing to end it since the two of you aee not on the same page when it comes to kids.

I personally don't want kids and make it clear when I meet someone and this subject comes up. I can't imagine dating someone who wants kids and hopes that someday I'll change my mind.

[catfeeder]

I have no children so I can appreciate her ambivalence. Do you feel particularly under the gun to find your forever partner and start a family right away? If so, you chose the right thing. If not, I would have, at the very least, explored more about her concerns and how you both might feel about switching up traditional roles where you would take on the role as primary caregiver, and let these ideas raise more questions over time. Like what could happen if something happened to render you unable to do that.

 I’m not saying that this would have even necessarily lead to a better outcome, but it would have maybe helped you feel more clear and confident about your own choice to move forward.

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

you would take on the role as primary caregiver,

The problem with that approach is she would still have to be pregnant, give birth and take time away from work to give birth and recover. Many of the woman I know who have chosen not to have children cite those things as the reasons why they don't want them. My one friend poetically said "I ain't shoving a kid out my vag". Not to mention the 18-20 year commitment to raising the children. And parents can't just up and go on a long business trip, vacation, sabbatical, etc. without having to either take the child along and work around their needs or find trustworthy long term child care.

I mean, I just loaded mine in the car or airplane and took them with. But I did give up on an exciting dream career opportunity because it would have meant being away two to three weeks out of every month and as a mother I couldn't do that. And I wanted kids. 

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

The problem with that approach is she would still have to be pregnant, give birth and take time away from work to give birth and recover. Many of the woman I know who have chosen not to have children cite those things as the reasons why they don't want them. My one friend poetically said "I ain't shoving a kid out my vag". Not to mention the 18-20 year commitment to raising the children. And parents can't just up and go on a long business trip, vacation, sabbatical, etc. without having to either take the child along and work around their needs or find trustworthy long term child care.

I mean, I just loaded mine in the car or airplane and took them with. But I did give up on an exciting dream career opportunity because it would have meant being away two to three weeks out of every month and as a mother I couldn't do that. And I wanted kids. 

Also I know of many men and women who want to be parents and don’t want the job of full time parent in the home. Like my husband. I respect that !

[Truth05]

On 11/21/2023 at 2:13 PM, Sam1986 said:

This is my viewpoint as well, and something I've communicated to her and which she seems to understand (though not want, just like me).

At this point I just keep that option open for the future, and try to focus as much on myself and dating others at this point, even though it's pretty difficult.

Either way, thanks for all the replies here so far! 🙂

Let me understand this. You met this girl and been with her for quite a few months and within a few weeks after the break-up, you are already dating others? But, at the same time hoping for her to change her mind and get your way, while not wasting time dating others. From your post you talk a lot about chemistry, which is infatuation most likely.

I think she has her valid reasons for not wanting kids. A woman does not need to have a career to not want a child, it's a choice. She might want a child in the future perhaps with someone else, never know. People change because they choose to or experiences make them change, not because someone is imposing them.  But coercing or trying to make someone change their mind, won't work in the long run. 

[Cherylyn]

You need to find another woman who wants children without a doubt whatsoever. 

As for remaining in contact with her despite not sharing the same future goals and dreams together regarding children, it's not healthy to be friends or be in a relationship when the relationship is not on the same wavelength as yours. 

Stop wasting everyone's time. Cut her loose and settle down with meeting a woman who has intentions of being your wife and / or the mother of your children at some point in the future.  Be evenly yoked and compatible otherwise it won't work no matter how much you wish it or hold out hope that perhaps her mind could change. Be pragmatic.