How young is too young?

[Snowed23]

As I mentioned in my other post I'm married and my husband is the youngest of 7 kids.  He has an identical twin brother.  In the past 4 or 5 years or so my brother-in-law (BIL) hasn't been making the best of decisions.  When me and my husband started dating many years ago my BIL was seeing this one girl who was age appropriate.  Very nice and sweet. A little on the quiet side.  They lived in the same apartment complex.  One thing lead to another and her and her autistic son moved into the apartment with my BIL.  They worked together to get their credit straightened out and eventually they were able to go through a program to build a home from ground up which they owned.  My husband told me that during that time his brother going into some unsavory things like cheating on his wife.  He said that his brother felt his wife wasn't giving him enough sex and my husband tried to tell him that after working a full time job then coming home to deal with an autistic child she may not always be in the mood for sex.  He asked him how many times a week did he want it and he said 3 or 4 times a week like when they were dating.  My husband told him to be realistic.  What you were getting while dating may not always be the same once you get married and now dealing with a brand new home, bills and things have increased.  My BIL also had his son living with him from his first marriage too.  Anyway, my BIL started seeing escorts.  We're not talking high class escorts that you hire through an agency with a screening process or escorts that require $300 or $400 an hour.  This was back during the Craigslist Casual Encounters and Backpage days.  He could go to those sites and find someone for like $50 or $60 a pop who may have a cheap hotel room and they were about quantity instead of quality.  The more guys they saw in a day the more money they made.  Or these would be girls who he would go pick up from their house or somewhere and drive down a dead-end road and climb in the backseat or they'd find a dark building and drive behind it to conduct business.  Long story short, the wife found out about it and threatened him to stop.  My husband even told him to cool it because the wife was threatening to take the proof she had and give it to the pastor at his church.  My BIL is one of the important deacons at his church, literally sitting in the pulpit with the pastor nearly every Sun.  SIL didn't go to the church so what did she care?  

 

It had gotten to the point my BIL was sneaking the girls into the house while his son was home in his room.  My husband has shown me pics of naked girls laying on their marital bed he would text him.  Hubby told him to stop and my BIL told him he didn't have a right to tell him what to do with his money so he left it alone and their relationship hasn't been the same since.  Long story short, my BIL didn't stop and he and his wife eventually split up.  They had to sell the house and when all was said and done they both walked away with around $27k in their pockets.  BIL was now homeless so he moved back home with the parents. Instead of putting the money to good use he decided her wanted to blow the bulk of it on a used Chevy Tahoe when there was nothing wrong with the Trailblazer he was currently driving.  Why?  Because a lot of the people at his church were getting newer cars and he wanted them see him in something newer too.  Again, the Trailblazer was running fine and it was paid for.  He and his son eventually found an apartment and moved out.  Fast forward a few years and then the pandemic hit.  My BIL never lost a day of work but with the rental moratorium he just decided to stop paying his rent.  Not realizing that once the moratorium was lifted he now would owe all that back rent.  He was so far behind that he had to borrow some $5000 from his mom and two of his sisters to get caught back up,  That was around Aug of 2021.  Come Jan of 2022 my husband's sister emailed him to say that his brother was being evicted from his apartment and that he had to be out that day.  Not sure if the $5k was enough to catch up his rent or if he had just gotten behind again.  So he and his grown son (22 yrs old) again had to move back home with his parents.  The brothers and sisters got together and told him he can't just keep running back home every time things get tough for him so they told him he had 3 months to get back up on his feet and move out.  He waited 2.5 months and didn't look at one apartment.  People would give him suggestions but he was like, "I don't want to live in that area or town", "I don't want to live in the same complex as that person", or just some excuse why he didn't want to go apply.  He then sends out this long manifesto text message about how he keeps screwing up his life and how none of his kids respect him.  He has an older daughter who lives out of state and she hardly talks to him just like his son.  He made the comment that he would leave and never come back.  They all knew that was a lie since everything he had was here in our city.  Mom felt sorry for him and gave him more time.  That has now gone on for almost 2 years now.  Coupled with the fact that in early Dec of last year his son committed suicide by hanging himself in the grandparent's backyard.  He and hsi first wife didn't get along at all so when the family was planning the funeral arrangements they decided to have him cremated.  BIL didn't have any money but he did have a $15k life insurance policy on him that eventually paid out.  The boy's mom paid for everything but since they didn't get along they actually had two services for him.  BIL and our side of the family and then the boy's mom had another service for him.  We had a simple memorial service for him whereas his mom dressed him up in a suit and had him laid out in a casket.  The boy was never a suit wearing individual.  Anyway, since mom paid for the cremation when the funeral home notified my BIL that the ashes were ready, he went to go pick them up not knowing that mom had already picked them up.  She refused to give him any of them even though her son hadn't lived with her in a number of years.  He didn't really care for his mom.  We later found out that she took the ashes back to her hometown, hours away, and spread them there.  

 

Shortly after that my BIL started seeing a new girl.  Hence, the reason for this post.  I said all the other stuff to give more contact on my BIL's way of thinking.  When his insurance company paid out the claim he walked away with $15k in his pocket, all his.  Instead of trying to find a place he now finds a new girl to date.  They have been dating since then and in the past month or so we found out that this girl is pregnant.  No one in the family had seen this girl at all.  About a month or so ago my husband and I were sitting at home one night when he gets a text message from his family's group text.  BIL told everyone that their parents were going to be grandparents again becasue his girlfriend was a few months pregnant.  My step-daughter, who graduated from college a few years ago actually, has a child of her own who is 2 now so my in-laws have a great-grandchild.  This new grandchild will be younger than the great-grandchild.  We then find out that the girl he is dating is only like 22 or 23 years old.  Yes, he's 54, she's at most 23 and now pregnant.  Oh, here's the kicker.  She doesn't know who the father is because she was sleeping with someone else during the same time.  He is now walking around like a proud papa buying baby stuff but doesn't know if he's the father or not.  A few weeks ago the family have a big shindig for the parents.  Dad was turning 86 and mom will be 80 in a few weeks and then at the same time they celebrating 63 years of marriage together and the BIL brought this young child to the cookout.  She walks in with booty cut shorts and a shirt that looks like she got it from the children's dept at Walmart.  It was so small it was riding up above her belly like she wanted everyone to see she was pregnant.  And with the age of my in-laws you could just imagine that most of those invited were their friends.  So we're talking family and friends who were also in their 60s, 70s, and 80s.  We were at my sister-in-law and brother-in-law's house and when she saw her she told her it was too hot for her to be outside in the heat and told her to just go sit inside.  Honestly she didn't want that girl to distract from the reason for the event.  And she wasn't even wearing a bra so her pregnant nipples were showing through the thin white shirt she had on.  Totally embarrassing but my BIL was walking around cheesing like the Cheshire cat.  My husband refuses to even try and get to know the girl.  He walked past her several times and didn't open his mouth.  I introduced myself to her but that's about it.  He said that there's nothing he has in common with a 23 year old child to make him want to have a conversation with her.  

 

How do you deal with this type of thing and do you see it lasting long?  We think she's only with him to burn through that $15k insurance money.  He takes her out to eat multiple times a week and even gets hotel rooms for them a few nights a week since he can't bring her to the parent's house for the night and he definitely can't go spend the night with her because she's still at home with her mom.  This is just too much of an age gap for anyone to really handle.  Right now he is the laughingstock of the family and my mother-in-law told my husband that he is saying that this is who he has been looking for all his life.  You're 54 and she's 23, what do you two actually have in common other than she's probably giving him all the sex he wants as long as he's spending money on her.

 

Where do you see thig going?  The DNA test hasn't been done yet to see if it's even his baby but he's buying stuff like car seats and things like he knows it's already his.

[Wiseman2]

4 minutes ago, Snowed23 said:

 My husband has shown me pics of naked girls laying on their marital bed he would text him.   

This is the strangest part of the story. Why is your husband collecting these pics and showing them to you? He seems a bit sleazy.

As far as your husband's family and their almost vulture-like attitudes toward the aging parents assets and inheritances, try to distance yourself from his family and them waiting for the folks to pass away for the money-grab. 

Focus on your own family, children and your own parents and extended family. What his parents do with their assets or how they pass them on is none of your concern. What his extended family do with their sex lives and money is also none of your concern.

[boltnrun]

How is your relationship with your own parents, siblings, etc.?

[Jaunty]

34 minutes ago, Snowed23 said:

BIL was now homeless so he moved back home with the parents. Instead of putting the money to good use he decided her wanted to blow the bulk of it on a used Chevy Tahoe when there was nothing wrong with the Trailblazer he was currently driving.  Why?  Because a lot of the people at his church were getting newer cars and he wanted them see him in something newer too.  Again, the Trailblazer was running fine and it was paid for. 

Frankly, you lost me in the plethora of unrelated details.  I'm curious about why you're so preoccupied with details about cars, in particular.

My general advice to you is that I think you need to focus on your own marriage and stop paying so much attention to the intricacies of the members of your husband's family of origin.  Very sad about your nephew though.

[Snowed23]

58 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

This is the strangest part of the story. Why is your husband collecting these pics and showing them to you? He seems a bit sleazy.

As far as your husband's family and their almost vulture-like attitudes toward the aging parents assets and inheritances, try to distance yourself from his family and them waiting for the folks to pass away for the money-grab. 

Focus on your own family, children and your own parents and extended family. What his parents do with their assets or how they pass them on is none of your concern. What his extended family do with their sex lives and money is also none of your concern.

My husband is / was not collecting the pics.  His brother would text them to him like "look at this latest conquest."  He didn't ask for the pics.

[Snowed23]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

This is the strangest part of the story. Why is your husband collecting these pics and showing them to you? He seems a bit sleazy.

As far as your husband's family and their almost vulture-like attitudes toward the aging parents assets and inheritances, try to distance yourself from his family and them waiting for the folks to pass away for the money-grab. 

Focus on your own family, children and your own parents and extended family. What his parents do with their assets or how they pass them on is none of your concern. What his extended family do with their sex lives and money is also none of your concern.

Why is his family vultures because things get handed down to them upon someone's death?  I don't understand your reasoning with that?  Family things get passed on all the time but does that make someone a vulture because they get something when someone dies?  It's not like they're going to the family house putting their names on things.  

[Snowed23]

40 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Frankly, you lost me in the plethora of unrelated details.  I'm curious about why you're so preoccupied with details about cars, in particular.

My general advice to you is that I think you need to focus on your own marriage and stop paying so much attention to the intricacies of the members of your husband's family of origin.  Very sad about your nephew though.

This is a bit hard to do when you are married to someone, are in relationship with his family as your in-laws and the two of you talk.  I wouldn't want to be a part of a family that kept everything secret and quiet.  My husband and I talk, that's what we do and yes, we talk about his brother and the poor decisions he keeps making.

[Kwothe28]

It reminds me on my friends uncle. He lived with his parents, his daughter and grandkid in abig home owned by his parents. But because he didnt want to take care of his parents(dad died first, mom then got sick), my friends mother took her mom with her with the agreement that 2/3 of the house go to her and  1/3 to uncle. So that agter her death, my friend and his wife(who were renting at the time) could move(uncle part of house is separate). Anyway, uncle didnt wanted to honor agreement. So they are in court process now that he would most likely lose and if he does he needs to cover years of legal fees (one who loses covers it here) and dont think he has that money. Oh and he also made a child to some younger woman. She already had 3 kids before that.

Anyway, let me repeat what my friend said about the whole situation: I dont feel sorry for the selfish man who couldnt even honor his mother and father properly. They coddled him and made an idiot who doesnt care for anyone, including them. So he can destroy his life in any way he wants.

You should take that approach too. You MIL and FIL can bail him out as much as they want and allow him to live with them and does what he does. But he is a 50+ year old man. Who destroyed his life by his own actions. You and your husband shouldnt be a part of his self- destruction.

[Snowed23]

16 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

It reminds me on my friends uncle. He lived with his parents, his daughter and grandkid in abig home owned by his parents. But because he didnt want to take care of his parents(dad died first, mom then got sick), my friends mother took her mom with her with the agreement that 2/3 of the house go to her and  1/3 to uncle. So that agter her death, my friend and his wife(who were renting at the time) could move(uncle part of house is separate). Anyway, uncle didnt wanted to honor agreement. So they are in court process now that he would most likely lose and if he does he needs to cover years of legal fees (one who loses covers it here) and dont think he has that money. Oh and he also made a child to some younger woman. She already had 3 kids before that.

Anyway, let me repeat what my friend said about the whole situation: I dont feel sorry for the selfish man who couldnt even honor his mother and father properly. They coddled him and made an idiot who doesnt care for anyone, including them. So he can destroy his life in any way he wants.

You should take that approach too. You MIL and FIL can bail him out as much as they want and allow him to live with them and does what he does. But he is a 50+ year old man. Who destroyed his life by his own actions. You and your husband shouldnt be a part of his self- destruction.

We're not a part of it but it's still family.  It's sort of hard to throw your hands up when it's still family.  He lives with the parents but doesn't life a hand to help them. That's why they call my husband a lot of the time.  He's lived with them for a year and a half now and not once has he cut the grass.  Dad is in the early stages of dementia and wears adult diapers and mom still has to get him up, bathe him, cook for him, dress him, give him his medicine, change him, etc.  What does my BIL say to that.  It's not his job.  One of the sisters' stopped by one day to see the parents and mom was outside trimming the hedges and BIL was sitting in the family room watching TV.  She asked him why he wasn't outside helping or doing it himself and his reply to her was, "that's not my job."  He only thinks about himself and how that he is messing around with this child young enough to be his daughter he feels like he's on cloud 9.  We tell him all the time that when his church finds out that he's gotten some young girl pregnant he'll be lucky to keep his position on the deacon's board.  No, he's not told the church or the pastor anything.  I heard they somewhat know that he's dating someone new but they don't know who or how old she is.  And definitely not that she's pregnant and possibly carrying his child.

[SooSad33]

25 minutes ago, Snowed23 said:

My husband and I talk, that's what we do and yes, we talk about his brother and the poor decisions he keeps making.

Yes, this is what it is and how it is.

He's an adult and is making his own decisions.  Nothing anyone can do.  He's made his bed, now has to lie in it.. right 😉 .

Reading all of this makes me think.. there's always someone who sticks out like this in a family.  I guess this is just how HE rolls.

So, let HIM deal with the choices he's making.  No one can change him.  But, you can limit yourself as to how much you support him.. or not.

I get it, his marriage failed for reasons, he went out & bought a new car.. he found a new young lady etc.  is all his choice.

If your hubby tolerates him to an extent enough ( as they are brothers), fine enough.  All you guys can do is try to accept what is and carry on.

 

[Wiseman2]

5 minutes ago, Snowed23 said:

 That's why they call my husband a lot of the time.  

If this is what's really bothering you, address it directly. Unfortunately you can't change their entire family dynamic.

[Snowed23]

9 minutes ago, SooSad33 said:

Yes, this is what it is and how it is.

He's an adult and is making his own decisions.  Nothing anyone can do.  He's made his bed, now has to lie in it.. right 😉 .

Reading all of this makes me think.. there's always someone who sticks out like this in a family.  I guess this is just how HE rolls.

So, let HIM deal with the choices he's making.  No one can change him.  But, you can limit yourself as to how much you support him.. or not.

I get it, his marriage failed for reasons, he went out & bought a new car.. he found a new young lady etc.  is all his choice.

If your hubby tolerates him to an extent enough ( as they are brothers), fine enough.  All you guys can do is try to accept what is and carry on.

 

Trust me, my husband doesn't tolerate this one bit.  Again, at the birthday / anniversary celebration he didn't say one word to the baby momma.  He says to me that there is no way he's going to try and elevate this 23 year old to the level of a 54 year old to try and have a conversation and there's no way he's going to lower himself down to the level of a 23 year old just to get on her level.  They have zero in common so why try to get to know her?  My husband and his brother use to be close, twins and all, but in the past few years they hardly speak to each other.  At family dinners and gatherings I don't think I've seen them say two words to each other.  

[SooSad33]

Ahh, I see. So a lot of distance has developed.  I'm sure, due to the BIL behaviour etc.

Yeah, but still, what can you do, right?  Not much.

It;s his life & his choices.  Unless or until he admits he's messed up, he will continue in his ways.  Some people are not the 'settling' type.  Some people do mess their lives up, sadly 😕 .

But this is him and you guys have your life.  Settled and doing okay.  Then, that's how it is.

Let the BIL experience this 'new' relationship, whatever it is and do what he will.

What else can you do?  ( everyone goes down their own paths in life).

 

[bluecastle]

2 hours ago, Snowed23 said:

Where do you see thig going?

I get the curiosity, don't get me wrong. I'm not proud to admit I've slowed down plenty when passing an accident scene, and if one was playing out on a repeating loop outside my front door? I'd likely spend some time staring out the window and gawking. 

As for where it's all going to go? The answer's the same for all relationships, be it mine or yours or your troubled BIL's: only time knows, and time will reveal, so as thirsty as you are right now for answers you're just going to have to patient and let the drama play out.   

But, hey, you asked and so I'll answer: If I was betting? I'd say it'll likely go where many things have gone before in his life, which is to say up in flames. 

Then again, who knows!? The eternal romantic in me—or maybe just the popcorn chomper—is inclined to make an argument that a man of his appetites and history may find some kind of solace with a peach emoji who favors short-shorts and is half his age. All things considered, dude does seem to have much more in common with, I don't know, a juvenile delinquent than a typical 50-something.

Good news, in the big picture: Just as Taylor Swift's romantic rollercoasters have no direct impact on your life, neither do those of your BIL, so make sure to keep your investment in it all in check.  

[redswim30]

2 hours ago, Snowed23 said:

  I wouldn't want to be a part of a family that kept everything secret and quiet.  My husband and I talk, that's what we do and yes, we talk about his brother and the poor decisions he keeps making.

Not everything is your business.  If you choose to make it your business, then don't complain about it if you are welcoming the drama into your life where it doesn't need to be. 

Every family has secrets.  You are naive if you think you know every single thing and bad decision every single member of your family has ever made.  From your in laws, to your kids, to your husband.  Does your BIL know every single mistake you've ever made?  How would you feel if he was sharing that with others? There's also kindness in dignity and decorum.  Not everything needs to be shared and analyzed down to every detail.

Your BIL is a screw up.  Who cares?  It's his life.  All this ranting about him just makes you appear judgmental, because you don't really have anything to achieve here.  Nothing you do is going to change what your BIL does.  

Why are you so invested in his decisions?  They don't really effect your life at all. 

 

[Jaunty]

3 hours ago, Snowed23 said:

This is a bit hard to do when you are married to someone, are in relationship with his family as your in-laws and the two of you talk.  

It's really not hard.  Seriously, your brother in law's sex life is not your business, what kind of car he has or wants isn't important for you to be involved with, etc.  Of course since you like it, go for it - but it's a lot of extra noise in your head that has nothing to do with your personal life.

[Jaunty]

2 hours ago, Snowed23 said:

 He says to me that there is no way he's going to try and elevate this 23 year old to the level of a 54 year old to try and have a conversation and there's no way he's going to lower himself down to the level of a 23 year old just to get on her level.  They have zero in common so why try to get to know her?  

Well, that's kind of weird.

This 23 year old has a lot more to her than her age. I know plenty of crusty old people who are not at any lofty "level" at all.   Isn't she the mother now of your new niece or nephew?  And isn't family eveything?  And aren't you committed to being fully involved in all the goings on?  So why not get to know who she really is.   She's family now.

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Snowed23 said:

 there's no way he's going to lower himself down to the level of a 23 year old just to get on her level.  

Is this the one your husband kept pics of on his phone?  Please understand. Your husband and marriage are the problem here. Not his family, their love lives or their vehicles.

[boltnrun]

Does your husband involve himself in the dramas of your family? Do you? Or is it just his family you're focused on?

[Capricorn3]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Is this the one your husband kept pics of on his phone?  Please understand. Your husband and marriage are the problem here. Not his family, their love lives or their vehicles.

^ ALL of this ^  Nothing more, nothing less.  OP, you really need to mind your own business and focus on your own marriage and husband.  Maybe counseling/therapy wouldn't go amiss to help you figure out why you are so absorbed in other people's lives.

[waffle]

As long as she's 18 or over there's no problem.

[waffle]

I like that the H is keeping pix of the young hottie tho.  What's that about?  Is he jealous?

[boltnrun]

23 minutes ago, waffle said:

As long as she's 18 or over there's no problem.

I agree, but I hope he's not preaching from his pulpit to abstain from sex outside of marriage while engaging in it himself. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if he was, but it would be extremely hypocritical.

[Tinydance]

I wasn't sure what you were really asking except will the BIL's relationship with the young woman last. In terms of that, I don't think anyone can actually answer that. Some unusual  relationships sometimes last and some "perfect" relationships end. If BIL is not the baby's father then maybe they'll break up and she will go to the actual father. Or maybe BIL will break up with her because he doesn't want to take care of someone else's child. If he is the father, maybe they'll stay together to be a family. Or maybe they'll still break up and just co-parent. There are a lot of different variations.

I agree their age gap is a bit weird. I did actually know one girl in her late teens/early 20's who had kids with a guy 28 years older than her. He actually wasn't rich or anything like that but she just liked him for some reason. I met him and he actually seemed like a nice guy. It's probably very rare to have such a large age gap but it does happen. Also even though this girl is young,  she's not under age. So while it seems strange, it's not illegal and your BIL isn't in any kind of legal trouble because of it.

I also agree with the others that you seem way too invested in your brother-in-law's life and what he's doing. He doesn't sound like a good guy at all. But at the end of the day, his behaviours don't really affect you directly. You didn't say in your post that he has asked to stay at your house, asked you for money, or even asked you to befriend this young girl. He seems to have been making some bad life choices but they are HIS bad choices. 

I understand you're concerned for your elderly in laws and that's nice of you. If anyone should be standing up for them though, it should be your husband. I understand you're related to them through marriage as well. But it's your husband's family so in my opinion it should be him dealing with it. You also mentioned his other siblings are trying to deal with BIL too.. So I think based on the fact that it's not really your family, it might be best for you to stay out of it.

Personally my feelings about dealing with extended family that I don't like is just to be polite, but keep my distance from them. At family gatherings and events I act friendly and nice but I leave it at that. You are also not required to be friends with this 22-year-old girl, but you don't have to ignore her or be rude either. You can just be polite when you see her.

In my opinion this girl hasn't done anything specifically wrong towards your family. She sounds quite trashy and obviously she cheated on BIL. But that's BIL's choice to date her and he doesn't actually seem to care that she cheated. Obviously because he was cheating on his wife too. I can also kind of understand why BIL would be happy about the baby. I mean, his son actually died. And while he might be a jerk but still surely he cared for his son at least on some level. 

The other thing too is that if BIL is the father of the baby, that will be your husband's nephew. The child has done nothing wrong. So if you cut off BIL and the girl then your husband wouldn't know his niece or nephew. At the end of the day it's your husband's decision how he wants to deal with BIL and the situation. If he still wants to keep in touch with BIL then you'll just have to accept it.

 

[Snowed23]

On 8/31/2023 at 4:56 PM, Wiseman2 said:

Is this the one your husband kept pics of on his phone?  Please understand. Your husband and marriage are the problem here. Not his family, their love lives or their vehicles.

No, this isn't the same girl.  That was several years ago when he was still married and actively seeing escorts.  And again, no, he wasn't saving pics of the girls on his phone.  His brother would just text them our of the blue to show him who he's hooking up with now.  I made sure my husband deleted the pics from his phone.  Shortly after that he and his brother had a big falling out and they stopped texting.  Probably in the past 4 or 5 years they have probably text each other 5 or 6 times.