How do I stop feeling envious and angry at couples?

[LootieTootie]

14 minutes ago, P4nther said:

With respect, do you think that perception matters? That's a genuine question. Because many women will date some of the most narcissistic, unreliable, chauvinistic men around. Do these men have healthy perceptions? I don't see how trying to adopt a false perception of the world is going to help.

I think in some cases, it does. Thats why I think maybe you should try at least. I think your perception might help you change your attitude, and then your attitude might change how others view you.

As much as we like to think that this world is full of selfish, narcissists and self-absorbed people, once people start talking/noticing you, their brain starts perceiving you. And people are very perceptive/observant when they want to be. Not to say that people's perception can never be wrong. But yes, once they see you as someone that is likable, good-nature, genuine, humble - they open up to you. 

I won't tell you to fake it to make it because I know some people just can't - thats why you should at least try professional therapy.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, P4nther said:

I've only been pushed into this because not a single woman will give me a chance. I wasn't always this bitter and angry. I used to be a fairly easygoing guy. But over the years, being ignored by women has taken its toll. I've tried to improve myself but nothing ever changes. Women will continue to overlook me at every turn, and all these other schmoes will get girlfriends and wives without lifting a finger.

You don't know what they "got" if anything.  Anyway the purpose of therapy is to help you deal with your rage in a mature, responsible and healthful way.  You won't be suitable for any relationsip with this level of rage -if you "get" a girlfriend you'll find something else to rage about.  

[Batya33]

16 minutes ago, LootieTootie said:

I won't tell you to fake it to make it because I know some people just can't - thats why you should at least try professional therapy.

I agree with the exception that he has to if he feels he is going to lash out at someone or show his anger and then be in a potentially harmful/criminal situation.

[P4nther]

Always comes back to therapy, doesn't it? 😐

[Batya33]

5 minutes ago, P4nther said:

Always comes back to therapy, doesn't it? 😐

Not always but yes in situations with irrational anger based on irrational assumptions and to the extent that you're saying you'd welcome someone confronting you if you acted rudely in public.

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, P4nther said:

 whenever I see couples , I am filled with hatred, envy, and even violent urges. I see these guys, many of them unremarkable and unexceptional, 😔

What do you think of Victoria and David Beckham?

[Cherylyn]

My mother never remarried after a marriage made in hell.  She fiercely enjoyed her financial freedom and independence to the hilt.  She didn't need any man in order to make her life feel whole and complete.  Perhaps try changing the way you think and be your own person so you'll build self confidence and possess higher self esteem.  You'll either attract like minds and / or relish your life. 

Keep in mind whenever you see people or couples in public,  you don't know their story,  their pain,  where they came from,  terrible memories which continue to haunt them to this day,  their struggles,  perhaps unemployment,  bad job environment with colleagues,  insurmountable financial worries,  heavy debts,  poor health,  depression,  living arrangements,  their stressful home life,  problems with their children,  problems with their relatives and / or in-laws,  poor interpersonal problems with their loved ones or enemies.  It runs the gamut. 

Don't be envious or become enraged with jealousy because you are unaware of people's lives not to mention it is detrimental to your health to be preoccupied with others.   Hypertension sets in and spirals out of control from there.  Speaking of health,  concentrate on getting healthy.  Exercise,  eat well and there is truth to the sound mind,  sound body concept. 

I remember a time during a hot summer night while walking with my late dog.  Some people left their windows open.  I overheard a desperate,  heart wrenching argument between a couple not far from where I reside.  The wife was wailing.  😢  Not everyone is happy with their lot in life.   The grass is not always greener on the other side. 

Don't do the "woe is me" stance.  Change your life around and do something positive. 

Be grateful.  Millions of people have it far worse than you. 

Don't do anything foolish and end up in jail. 

[Jaunty]

42 minutes ago, P4nther said:

Always comes back to therapy, doesn't it? 😐

You're stuck in a loop of entitlement, grievance, perceived injustice and a very unrealistic view of what is going on with other people around you.   

Therapy can help with that, if you're willing to work on yourself at all.  

From the posts so far, you haven't shown that, but therapy or not - this is all about you and not the vile "Chads,"  misguided "females" and the rest of that bogus nonsense.  

We are all responsible for our own lives and many people have tons of advantages, while others have many more disadvantages than you or I.  

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, P4nther said:

If all these morons and scumbags get girlfriends, then I deserve one too. 

Tom Brady and  Gisele Bündchen are getting divorced, so think of the headaches and heartaches he's going through. Media circus, legal fees, alimony. Maybe you're better off avoiding that whole scenario? 

[Batya33]

I have a friend. She’s incredible. I mean. She’s brilliant but humble. Down to earth. Successful professional. Cute husband who seemed to love her and their family .
Generous- years ago she started these monthly potluck dinners at her home. Because she worked so hard she figured this would force her to see her friends and socialize.

 We’d met at a local park randomly one day and our kids were similar ages. Then she had two more - twins. We went to at least 4 of the dinners. Her friends were also so nice and down to earth. all couples you’d rage at I suspect. 
Covid ended the dinners. We stayed in light touch. I’d told her we were considering moving to her area.  So she followed up recently. To see. Well.  Turns out her handsome seemingly nice husband was moving out a couple days later. My sense is she followed up to see “who will I know now in the neighborhood”.  
I don’t know why.  I didn’t want to pry. I lent my support and offered to help including with a lawyer I know.  She was thankful. 
so you’d have seen this cute couple with their 3 young kids and been jealous. They always seemed fine and happy and solid to me. 
wnst to be in her shoes now ? You think she’s all like “well at least I know I can “get” a man !  She doesn’t have the time to be like that.  She has a high level professional job AND three young kids. And a divorce process now. 
so you’d have seen them like many couples. Some are happy some are thrilled and some are  spending their last weekend together as a family. And they might see you and think “wow he can walk alone and not have to keep his eyes on his kids or listen to his partner vent about having to plug the parking meter again. 
You’re like the 5 year old who sees a boy at target with matchbox cars in the shopping cart and feels how unfair it is that his mom said no you have enough already. Or the “everyone else has a friend group who goes out to happy hour every week wahh wahh

[rainbowsandroses]

OP, if I may ask, what makes you believe getting a girlfriend is the be-all-end-all of your existence in this life/world and will make you happy?

It won't, not with your attitude, I promise you.  There is something much deeper going on within you that won't be resolved by "getting a girlfriend."  

A girlfriend, a relationship should "enhance" your already happy and fulfilling life NOT "be" your life.

I can guarantee that even IF you found a woman who would tolerate your negativity as it stands now, the fact you would depend on her to be the #1 source of your happiness and fulfillment in life is going to put tremendous pressure on her and the relationship.  

The relationship will break down, she will end it, leaving you more angry and depressed than you are now. 

Take women off the damn pedestal and I am a woman advising this! 

A girlfriend/relationship should NOT be the be-all-end-all of your existence, not sure where you learned it was. 

Learn to be happy within yourself FIRST.  Become a self-contained entity, independent and free from needing other people including women/a "girlfriend" to define your path in life and who you are as a MAN.

Re your anger, seek anger management.  Your feelings about other couples and seeing them together is NOT healthy, in fact it's quite toxic. 

Learn where it comes from. It's not from never having a girlfriend, that's just a symptom of a larger issue going on within yourself. 

Take steps to resolve either on your own or with the help of a professional.

You don't seek therapy to get a girlfriend, you seek therapy to become a more emotionally self-sufficient, independent, happy, healthier person in general.

When you're happy and healthy and love yourself first, getting a girlfriend becomes secondary.  It doesn't hold as much value.

Ironically, when you reach this level of self-love, self-fullfillment and internal happiness and validation, women will sense it and become more drawn to you as a result. 

Can almost guarantee it. 

 

 

 

 

[Tinydance]

I think we need a bit more information and background here. We always gets posts like this here but you haven't said much about your life overall or what specifically has been going on. E.g. In what situations did you get rejected by women? Were you actually directly asking women out? Did they know you liked them? Would you say there is anything going against you in terms of meeting women? E.g. Are you unattractive? In a wheelchair? Disfigured? Have chronic illnesses? Unemployed? Like do you think there is anything specific?

I also want to add that many people who are unattractive, disabled, etc. actually do still find partners. Most people who can't find a partner will argue that there is definitely something "wrong" with them which makes most other people "better" than them. They believe themselves to be somehow disadvantaged over any other person. I think that's very unlikely. In my opinion most people are only average looking. Most people aren't rich or particularly fascinating, e.g. not a celebrity. Yet most people can find someone or at least have had relationship or dating experience. 

[1a1a]

I found this talk incredibly helpful, maybe you’ll get a little something out of it too https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V3miuaOWsj8

 

It’s really hard to repeatedly strike out. But you can’t magic people into feeling desire for you when it doesn’t naturally occur. Or maybe they do but they’re at the wrong place in their life to pursue anything with anyone. That’s a run of bad luck. The resentment that’s brewed within you since then will be acting as a woman repellent right now though so I join the chorus strongly encouraging therapy to unpack those thoughts and feelings and check the stories you’re telling yourself. I imagine long term you would like to form a meaningful romantic connection with someone and you have to get rid of the chip on your shoulder before that can happen. 
 

That’s one angle to it. The other is a practical planning question. If you never did meet a single romantic match in your whole life, what are the things you do with your life that make it meaningful and fulfilling? (And if you’re thinking nothing, everything sucks, that’s a red flag for totally understandable, circumstantial depression which is enough thing you can heal with therapy). Once you can identify some things you want to be doing, commit to filling your life with those things. 

[shouldhavelearned]

There is more to life

Your mindset needs to change

Find some hobbies, better friends, volunteer somewhere 

[MissCanuck]

11 hours ago, Jaunty said:

I doubt this thread will last very long around here; usually the "manosphere / incel" ones die quick and merciful deaths. 

Exactly. 

The same old, same old: going around in circles and winding up posters. Refusing to listen. Refuting everything. Eventually thread gets closed as posts become more inflammatory. 

Lather, rinse, repeat. 

[P4nther]

10 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

OP, if I may ask, what makes you believe getting a girlfriend is the be-all-end-all of your existence in this life/world and will make you happy?

It won't, not with your attitude, I promise you.  There is something much deeper going on within you that won't be resolved by "getting a girlfriend."  

A girlfriend, a relationship should "enhance" your already happy and fulfilling life NOT "be" your life.

I can guarantee that even IF you found a woman who would tolerate your negativity as it stands now, the fact you would depend on her to be the #1 source of your happiness and fulfillment in life is going to put tremendous pressure on her and the relationship.  

The relationship will break down, she will end it, leaving you more angry and depressed than you are now. 

Take women off the damn pedestal and I am a woman advising this! 

A girlfriend/relationship should NOT be the be-all-end-all of your existence, not sure where you learned it was. 

Learn to be happy within yourself FIRST.  Become a self-contained entity, independent and free from needing other people including women/a "girlfriend" to define your path in life and who you are as a MAN.

Re your anger, seek anger management.  Your feelings about other couples and seeing them together is NOT healthy, in fact it's quite toxic. 

Learn where it comes from. It's not from never having a girlfriend, that's just a symptom of a larger issue going on within yourself. 

Take steps to resolve either on your own or with the help of a professional.

You don't seek therapy to get a girlfriend, you seek therapy to become a more emotionally self-sufficient, independent, happy, healthier person in general.

When you're happy and healthy and love yourself first, getting a girlfriend becomes secondary.  It doesn't hold as much value.

Ironically, when you reach this level of self-love, self-fullfillment and internal happiness and validation, women will sense it and become more drawn to you as a result. 

Can almost guarantee it. 

 

I know that having a relationship isn't the be-all-and-end-all, and that being single is preferable to being stuck in a toxic relationship.

But dating and having a girlfriend is one of the most natural things in the world.... at least for most of the populace. For the likes of me, when I see couples anywhere, I feel like I'm observing an alien species.... or perhaps in this scenario *I'M* the extra-terrestrial. You mean to say that this guy has a woman who wants to enjoy his company and be intimate with him? That thought is simply inconceivable for the likes of me... but it doesn't stop me wanting it.

Why does it have to be all or nothing? You can't have a girlfriend unless you're an enlightened soul with everything going for them? Unfortunately, reality isn't that simple. Most of our lives are far from perfect, and we're all deeply flawed creatures, but these men are still able to attract girlfriends in spite of that, whereas I have to go on this journey of spiritual discovery before I can even entertain the idea of ever having a partner? 

[Kwothe28]

12 hours ago, P4nther said:

Because many women will date some of the most narcissistic, unreliable, chauvinistic men around. Do these men have healthy perceptions? I don't see how trying to adopt a false perception of the world is going to help.

Do you think those women do have a healthy perception? On the other end of that stick are usually equally unhealthy women. Women who any other healthy man shouldnt date also. But sadly you see those couples and people as some imaginative success. Just because of their ability to attract somebody. Ability to attract somebody and have a relationship isnt really some success. Some people are attracted to toxicity, some other to physical, some to money etc. That shouldnt be your concern unless you are offering some of those things. For example people with money usually have irrational fear of the other person liking them solely on that. Hence they usually try to marry other people with money.

What you should be concerning is yourself. What you offer, how to meet women who would maybe find that desirable etc. You need to start from yourself, not from other people. And work on yourself if the current you is unhappy with how things are. For example what are you even doing to meet women andwhat you should do to meet them?

You asked "Why therapy"? Well in therapy(I pressume) you would probably be thought to look at other happy couples as something you should strive. And not something you should hate. To see them in a positive and not in a negative light. Because hatred on couples  just because they are couples, isnt really healthy for yourself. After you are thought that, I pressume good therapist would maybe teach you to love yourself a bit. Instead of seeing yourself as "forever alone".

Also, you remind me on Ted from "Scrubs" lol

[Batya33]

8 hours ago, 1a1a said:

The other is a practical planning question. If you never did meet a single romantic match in your whole life, what are the things you do with your life that make it meaningful and fulfilling?

I never thought there was a guarantee especially of the right person and I never felt entitled to be desired romantically or to have someone want to be my partner.  I'm married and I still do not.  Do you feel entitled to this and is that fueling your anger?

I also had a practical plan of sorts -I was living it.  I had a fun, fulfilling social life, was employed and financially independent and planned to adopt a child after age 40 if I was still single.

[redswim30]

6 hours ago, P4nther said:

I know that having a relationship isn't the be-all-and-end-all, and that being single is preferable to being stuck in a toxic relationship.

But dating and having a girlfriend is one of the most natural things in the world.... at least for most of the populace. For the likes of me, when I see couples anywhere, I feel like I'm observing an alien species.... or perhaps in this scenario *I'M* the extra-terrestrial. You mean to say that this guy has a woman who wants to enjoy his company and be intimate with him? That thought is simply inconceivable for the likes of me... but it doesn't stop me wanting it.

Why does it have to be all or nothing? You can't have a girlfriend unless you're an enlightened soul with everything going for them? Unfortunately, reality isn't that simple. Most of our lives are far from perfect, and we're all deeply flawed creatures, but these men are still able to attract girlfriends in spite of that, whereas I have to go on this journey of spiritual discovery before I can even entertain the idea of ever having a partner? 

OP,

Is what's really bothering you the fact that you don't have a GF or that you feel like you don't fit in?

Say you got a GF today.  How do you picture your life would change? 

You have to change your mindset.  With your negative outlook and using words like "deserve" and the energy you are putting forth from your posts alone, you're going to turn off most women you approach and even if you found a GF, if you maintained this attitude, she'd likely be gone before you can blink (a healthy woman, anyway.) 

Consider this. I deserve to be a CEO making six figures. I see people dumber than me be CEO's all the time.  I deserve 6 figures.  Why do idiots become rich and I can't?  Instead of researching ways to start my own business and make a plan, I'm just gonna complain about it and be envious of all the rich people I see.  I'll give them dirty looks.  Furthermore, with jobs I can attain, I'm going to be negative and maybe act out at them.   I'm gonna think about how much better their lives are than mine and think about how unfair things are and what I deserve.   Will I be a CEO by the end of this year?

[Coily]

@P4nther First of all, welcome to ENA.

I will start off telling you that you do have every right to feel slighted by being single, it's one of those cruel twists of fate that some of us are condemned to living. We see people we perceive as some of the worst among humanity getting what we think we want. But we don't know the details from a trip through the grocery store, so to react with an unexpressed hate does nothing but poison your soul.

Therapy is rarely a solution for this sort of loneliness, and that is what a lot of this really boils down to. I have been there, and it's a struggle being alone navigating this world, and don't let anyone dismiss that. However you have control over your destiny, will that land you a girlfriend? Absolutely not. Though I would hope that working to better yourself will at least help you cope with the hell of loneliness.

The question is who do you see yourself as? What can you do to improve you, for the sake of yourself? It's hard, damn hard at times to struggle with days that are rather empty feeling, that you have no direction with. You can accomplish many things, but to what end? I have asked myself that question regularly, at the end the only solution I come up with is that I have to find some fulfillment otherwise I'll rot away in a swirl of frustration.

So what are the first steps you can try to glean when out and about, see couples, and get that first twinge of angst? Observe. How do they act? What are they doing together? How do they treat each other? Use these opportunities to being to learn how to act when you get into a relationship. Try to shift your focus from feeling left out, to that of a student.

Look at how you behave and see how you can emulate the non-intimate behaviors in yourself when dealing with others. Start becoming the man you want to be, in all things. Hold yourself to a higher standard, and accountable for any rage you feel, you can be much better than those jerks out there. Live it.

 

 

 

[Coily]

Some other thoughts here, i really dislike how so many will swoop in and use incel as a way to dismiss how this and many OPs feel. Or hyper-focus on perceived entitlement of an OP.

Many times posters like this feel un-seen and unheard by the general public. Which furthers their sense of alienation and often result in defensive and aggressive responses. I've been in their shoes, and the best way to bridge that divide is to actually just listen. Then challenge the perspective and offer thoughts, without making someone feel like they are broken messes who should be alienated.

Rant/on pause.

[Starlight925]

23 hours ago, P4nther said:

I have noticed lately that whenever I see couples irl, I am filled with hatred, envy, and even violent urges. 

While I'm sorry you're feeling like you'll "never" find a girlfriend, I'm most concerned about the bolded.

 

[Cherylyn]

For many people when shopping around for a partner or observing potential for partners leading towards marriage,  it's the package deal meaning what do you have to offer?  I can't speak for everyone but for me,  it was everything regarding sound economics,  humble character,  high emotional intelligence,    preferably good mental and physical health and envisioning an overall stable future.  Usually,  alike people attract alike people.  Most women want the same thing or so I've noticed.  None of us want a lifetime of hardship and struggle whether economics,  warped characters or all of it.  Most people want a harmonious life. 

Be introspective and think about how you can improve your lot in life if you want to attract great women as a partner or wife someday. 

Sitting there and feeling sorry for yourself will not get you anywhere.  What's alarming is your rage and I hope you won't resort to violence and illegal activity which which will lead to your arrest and  incarceration. 

I for one would never date a man who has anger management issues or physically violent tendencies.  😡This is a way to scare most if not all women away.  I know because my late father was domestically violent towards my poor mother.  He punched her teeth out.  Whether you harm a man or woman,  it's a heinous crime.

I agree that some women will date and marry the worst men because they feel that this is as good as it gets for them and it's all they deserve.  My mother was one of them.  I cut her some slack though regarding her poor choices.  She hails from an abusive family life and fled.  She was on her own at a very young age and never had any smart guidance regarding what to look for in a man.  She was extremely naive when she met my father.  She didn't know what she was doing and she ruined her life for decades.  Fortunately,  after my late father passed away prematurely and mercifully,  my mother felt relieved to finally be free of shackles from her marriage made in hell.  She never remarried.  She fiercely savors her economic independence to the hilt. 

Look inward.  You need professional help regarding your inner rage and hopefully you won't act out upon them because you'll be a danger to society.  Be independent,  concentrate on your career,  be a good person,  be kind,  take care of your mental and physical health.  Be your own SOUND person.  Get your act together.  Then you'll attract women like bees to honey.  At this time,  you can afford to become picky and choosy and they are, too. 

[Batya33]

So for example what would be your advice for a woman yearning for a biological child but was infertile or had genetic markers that made it too risky for her to carry a child using her own eggs? In that way it would be a total "can't" but yet no woman is entitled to conceive and birth her own child - it's a blessing.  But in your case even if you never date or find a romantic partner you're not "infertile" by analogy.  So should that woman walk around through life harboring such anger and even violent tendencies when she sees moms with their adorable babies?

Those women also -realistically- can't avoid seeing families/babies/moms with babies - how would you advise the very many people who cannot have what so many seem to have -even effortlessly? A child, a private home, enough money to be able to take at least an annual vacation to a nice location? Especially with social media they're going to be actually bombarded with all this "injustice".  What about the guy who constantly sabotages job opportunities by showing up late/not finishing his work/having a bad attitue - but who is so envious of guys who seem to get and keep good jobs (as opposed to the crap job or unstable job he has) "so easily?" 

All these people should walk around rageful each time they're confronted with yet another person going through life with "the one thing" they want and feel entitled to? Really consider it because there is a whole range of these situations and then a whole range of people who legitimately cannot have those seemingly basic things (relationship/child/private home/good job) because of a dealbreaker disability or condition or who behave in ways (as I suspect you do/as others on this thread suspect you do) that greatly reduces their chances of having these things.

Yet, we don't walk the streets being stared at angrily or staring at others angrily and even though at last count I have 600 FB friends I rarely see rageful posts by people writing "how dare you post photos of Disney World when I can pay my rent and utilities and buy food with nothing left over!!" or "how dare you post photos of your adorable baby when I can't find someone who wants to have a baby with me!"  

You're no different in wanting X that you think you are "entitled" to that -from your twisted perception -even "bad" people seem to achieve - than so many other people who confront the unfairness of life.  Living as you do will literally burn you out and perhaps get you in big trouble -and sabotage any chance of attracting a good person into your life.  What say you?

[shouldhavelearned]

Nice post

 

Wish I had found it years ago

 

Got some other videos to watch now