How do I stop feeling envious and angry at couples?

[SooSad33]

On 7/2/2023 at 1:14 PM, P4nther said:

Unless therapy can magic me up a girlfriend, I don't think it has any use, sadly.

And sadly, you won't even consider giving it a chance?  I know a few others like you.

I say it's a form of jealousy and no, it's not healthy.  

I second the idea of looking into some prof help, especially if YOU find it concerning, like it's coming to a point of some 'internal anger'.

Anyways, everyone's different.  Every relationship is different.  Couple's break up all of the time, so you have NO idea what anyone's going through.

Yeah, i've been involved, but i've also been through some really rough break ups.  And I hit my breaking point, due to it all.  I then did 4 yrs of therapy, to work through all of my hurts.  I have not gotten involved since as I know my low tolerance now & risks of getting involved -- but this is just an example of ME and my own experiences. ( and there's thousands more out there...)

As for you, not sure your age, but is there maybe something you can change or work on?  What things have you done to 'better yourself'? .. have you ever been on a date?

 

[P4nther]

15 hours ago, Coily said:

Some other thoughts here, i really dislike how so many will swoop in and use incel as a way to dismiss how this and many OPs feel. Or hyper-focus on perceived entitlement of an OP.

Many times posters like this feel un-seen and unheard by the general public. Which furthers their sense of alienation and often result in defensive and aggressive responses. I've been in their shoes, and the best way to bridge that divide is to actually just listen. Then challenge the perspective and offer thoughts, without making someone feel like they are broken messes who should be alienated.

Rant/on pause.

Thank you. It is rare these days to find someone sympathetic to your plight. As you alluded to, it doesn't take long for terms like "incel" and "entitled" to get bandied about. What is wrong with craving companionship and intimacy from the opposite sex? Like you said, the more men such as myself are maligned and ostracized, the worse those feelings of loneliness and isolation become, but then I guess those people simply don't care about that?

[P4nther]

6 hours ago, SooSad33 said:

.. have you ever been on a date?

No, because not a single woman will give me a chance. It would be one thing to go on dates, work out what went wrong, what went right etc... but when women are utterly uninterested in you, where do you go from there? I'm becoming more and more convinced that you either have "it" or you don't. There can't be any other explanation.

[Tinydance]

4 hours ago, P4nther said:

No, because not a single woman will give me a chance. It would be one thing to go on dates, work out what went wrong, what went right etc... but when women are utterly uninterested in you, where do you go from there? I'm becoming more and more convinced that you either have "it" or you don't. There can't be any other explanation.

How many women have you asked out?

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

How many women have you asked out?

And how have you asked them out -in what context? How did you know the person and how did the person know you? Was it an invitation by you planned in advance to share a meal, an activity, see a performance? Were you sure all these women were single and available to date you? Did you know if they only dated within their particular religion or culture that you were not  a part of? 

 

[P4nther]

4 hours ago, Tinydance said:

How many women have you asked out?

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

And how have you asked them out -in what context? How did you know the person and how did the person know you? Was it an invitation by you planned in advance to share a meal, an activity, see a performance? Were you sure all these women were single and available to date you? Did you know if they only dated within their particular religion or culture that you were not  a part of? 

 

I have not asked out any women, due to a sheer lack of opportunities. Unless you are advocating the "cold-approach" technique?

[rainbowsandroses]

Xxx

[Jaunty]

On 7/3/2023 at 7:42 AM, Coily said:

 

Many times posters like this feel un-seen and unheard by the general public.

Do you extend the same consideration and empathy to, say, fat ugly women who are alone?  Or lonely women over 60 years old?  These people feel "un-seen and unheard" by the general public as well.  Yet there are not entire Internet movements dedicated to stoking their plight or stirring up hatred within them for other people who have partners.

 

[Batya33]

44 minutes ago, P4nther said:

I have not asked out any women, due to a sheer lack of opportunities. Unless you are advocating the "cold-approach" technique?

No I'm not.  I'm advocating you making your own opportunities.  Like I had to for many years.

[boltnrun]

10 hours ago, P4nther said:

No, because not a single woman will give me a chance.

How do you know this if you have never asked a woman out?

50 minutes ago, P4nther said:

I have not asked out any women

 

[P4nther]

1 hour ago, Jaunty said:

Do you extend the same consideration and empathy to, say, fat ugly women who are alone?

Women always have options.

[P4nther]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

No I'm not.  I'm advocating you making your own opportunities.  Like I had to for many years.

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

How do you know this if you have never asked a woman out?

If a woman is not giving you any signals that she's interested, if she looks straight past you like you're invisible, then yeah... it's a pretty safe assumption she's not gonna give you a chance.

You don't "make your own opportunities" when it comes to this. Women either find you attractive or they don't.

[Jaunty]

1 hour ago, P4nther said:

Women always have options.

So do you.  And so do all men.  We have an entire industry set up to provide us with sexual gratification and female companionship.  Women have no such thing.

You also have no grounds to mention your options or lack of options, since you've told us all that you've never asked a woman out.  

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, P4nther said:

Women always have options.

It depends what you mean by options.  I probably had more options generally to get a date that included a promise of sex than a man all else equal.  But I didn't have more options than a man to find a man who was a great match for marriage and family.  Great match in every way -love/commitment/caring/compatibility in values/stuff in common.  At points in my life I had far fewer options than younger women who didn't have to start trying to get pregnant "yesterday."

[P4nther]

8 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

since you've told us all that you've never asked a woman out.  

Which women am I asking out? I'm all ears.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, P4nther said:

If a woman is not giving you any signals that she's interested, if she looks straight past you like you're invisible, then yeah... it's a pretty safe assumption she's not gonna give you a chance.

You don't "make your own opportunities" when it comes to this. Women either find you attractive or they don't.

Of course you do because if you seek out activities, environments, places that are naturally conducive to conversation, socializing, mingling, chatting -in person in particular - then there's a much greater chance of meeting men you connect with who then will introduce you to women they know or know of who have stuff in common with you and a greater chance of meeting women who either will go on a date with you or know someone who would be interested in doing so. I started setting people up when I was around 14.  I'm 56.  The last time I made an attempt was in June. 

I was set up with one of my long term boyfriends -I went to school with her and she worked with him and they would never have dated in part because of religious incompatibility.  She'd never dated him but thought we might make a good couple. 

My husband and I and a few of our friends used to have a rotating "game night" at someone's home.  Sometimes we included "outsiders" - and at one such game night my husband's cousin met his high school buddy and they ended up dating for 6 months.  They'd never met before and never would have met on their own.  

My -back then very shy- mom went to a sweet 16 party in the early 1950s.  Because her friend needed to even out the number of boys and girls who were there so the story goes.  My father was there.  3 years older.  She wasn't the party girl type at all.  He walked her part of the way home and asked what her father's last name was. 

He was too scared to outright ask for her number or ask her for a date.  So he looked her father up in the white pages and called her house.  They were married 62 years.  He'd dated around some and she'd dated very very little.  Neither had much experience dating let alone being serious, planning a life together.  And yes their wedding night was their first time so - little experience there too lol. 

She'd never have asked him out -that was unheard of no way, full stop. So it was up to him and I bet she did very little flirting -she thought he was cute and all but again she was a feminine girly girl, quiet, unassuming.  Maybe she came off as standoffish/quiet.  But my dad went for it. Thank goodness.

[P4nther]

54 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Of course you do because if you seek out activities, environments, places that are naturally conducive to conversation, socializing, mingling, chatting -in person in particular - then there's a much greater chance of meeting men you connect with who then will introduce you to women they know or know of who have stuff in common with you and a greater chance of meeting women who either will go on a date with you or know someone who would be interested in doing so. 

I doubt anyone would be interested, as women are not attracted to me 😕

[Coily]

5 hours ago, Jaunty said:

Do you extend the same consideration and empathy to, say, fat ugly women who are alone?  Or lonely women over 60 years old?  These people feel "un-seen and unheard" by the general public as well.  Yet there are not entire Internet movements dedicated to stoking their plight or stirring up hatred within them for other people who have partners.

 

I do indeed have a great deal of sympathy for all those you have listed, it's a shame that anyone who wants a partner and is of amiable character have to feel alone in life. I find your insinuation grossly offensive and a perversion of what I said.

Maybe, just maybe if an open ear were given to any aggrieved group they would be naturally de-radicalized. Perhaps it would be better instead of alienating people and validating their self-victimization, that we all listen to what they have to say and try to give them tools, rather than hand-wave them away as a plague.  By piling on we make them martyrs in their own minds and they can justify their hate, and that's on the general public as a whole. I for one will not play into that.

 

[Coily]

OP What are you doing to create opportunities? Do you go out and socialize?

It's an uncomfortable truth is that you will need to do a lot of leg work to get out there and start gauging a woman's interest in you. I have seen suggestions of volunteering, joining meet-up groups, and other groups and social activities, have you considered those?

I would also highly suggest that you take every outing as a potential time that you will run into the right woman. So consider how you present yourself and how you want to be perceived, then dress, act, and carry yourself in that manner and to hades with how others treat you.

A lot of it's luck, but you have to try to stack the odds in your favor. One small way is to discard the idea that women always have options. It's like deciding if you should drink the wine or the vinegar, both are liquid, both can be made from grapes. Why do I say this? It's to encourage you to realize that you don't need to worry about anyone else's vinegar when you want the wine.

It's going to be rough, it's going to suck a lot. I learned the hard way in my 20s that I doubtfully will get what I want, but i decided to that I'm best pushing against the currents. Am i less lonely? No, but I'm not letting that weigh me down.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, P4nther said:

I doubt anyone would be interested, as women are not attracted to me 😕

You are correct. If that is your mindset you are more likely to repel people rather than attract them.  People can sense this fairly easily in how you carry yourself and interact with others. Up to you to walk the walk/do the things/ take the risks if the end goals are worth it to you. No one is required to date you and you are not required to date anyone.

[rainbowsandroses]

37 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

If that is your mindset you are more likely to repel people rather than attract them.  People can sense this fairly easily in how you carry yourself and interact with others.

Agree and that's the unfortunate irony.  The more you get rejected, the more angry and bitter you will become which is reflected by the energy you project. 

Women can sense this negative energy and thus will continue to reject you because of it. 

It can become a vicious cycle that's hard to break from. 

Contrary to what you believe OP, a man's energy trumps all else -  looks, status, money or whatever else is being tossed around on the internet or manosphere.

Somehow you need to change your mindset, attitude and the energy you project to the world, to women. 

I don't have the answer for that, it takes acquiring a certain belief in yourself that you're good enough, a valuable human being  among many other things. 

Therapy has helped many people beat this toxic internal struggle but it appears you're not open to that. 

So all I can do is wish you the best and hope someday you're able to find internal peace and happiness.

 

[boltnrun]

Has a woman actually rejected you? Have you tried talking to women and had every single one of them scoff, dismiss or disregard you?

Do you have a sister or a female cousin who can give you feedback on how you come across in social or group situations? I was told that I tend to come across as stern and unyielding so I worked on relaxing my face and smiling more. I also worked on unfolding my arms and relaxing my shoulders and jaw so I don't look like I'm about to scold someone. It's hard to be self aware but it's also important. 

[Jaunty]

3 hours ago, P4nther said:

Which women am I asking out? I'm all ears.

I'm responding to this quote:

Quote

I have not asked out any women

Until you've actually been in the trenches, you have no idea.  I do anticipate that you'll have a difficult time until you get a bit of an attitude adjustment.   People pick up on hatred and rage.   

I would venture to say that at least 95% of guys that you see with a woman have experienced rejection at some point, unless they are in arranged unions within strict religious cultures where they don't actually ask women out.  

We all put ourselves out there and some of us (me being one) were cripplingly shy as young guys and had to overcome that.   

For sure it's easier for some than others.  But nobody who doesn't try is getting anywhere.

[Seraphim]

My husband cold asked me out. We were in the same University class . I had to finish his question for him because he was so nervous. I agreed to go out with him and we have been inseparable for the past almost 34 years or so. 

[Capricorn3]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

You are correct. If that is your mindset you are more likely to repel people rather than attract them.  People can sense this fairly easily in how you carry yourself and interact with others. Up to you to walk the walk/do the things/ take the risks if the end goals are worth it to you. No one is required to date you and you are not required to date anyone.

^ Agreed.  When someone comes across with an attitude of hatred, envy, rage, and anger to the point of violent thoughts, don't be too surprised when no-one wants to go near them. When it oozes out of every page on the internet, there is no doubt it will be the same in real life - people are very quick to sense it.  Something you can't hide.  An attitude like that would make me head for the hills so fast you wouldn't see me for dust.

Look into professional counseling/therapy.  Without this help to fix your hatred, envy, rage and angry attitude, you are going to be a very lonely guy.  Your choice.