Mean Teenage Daughter

[almostemptynester]

Hi..first time posting here but I am desperate for advice. 

My 17 year old daughter is usually a pretty well adjusted kid. However, she is in a relationship that is very hard for me to watch as a parent. She is MEAN to her bf and always trying to pick petty fights with him. Constantly - several per day! They can't get along well for more than a few minutes before she nit picks something he says or does. Examples are endless: He opened a snapchat but didn't reply fast enough. He is "dry" (meaning he doesn't have much to say in texting but she expects him to carry on a conversation nonstop all day and gets upset if he doesn't reply fast enough). He looked at her "funny" in the hallway. He wasn't on his phone much at lunch so he must be hiding something. If he isn't allowed to do something with her or plans change, she is IRRATE, even though it isn't his fault (and he's a teenage boy who is at the mercy of his parents' permission as far as his plans). He wants to take a few hours to play video games with his friends and it is the end of the world. He is such a nice kid, and while not perfect, he let's her walk all over him and it has become a vicious cycle. He has even contacted me out of desperation because she gets SO angry over silly things and he doesn't know how to handle her or wants me to try to intervene (which I have mixed feelings about - I am not wanting to get in the middle but happy he feels comfortable coming to me). 

I've tried everything. I've had calm yet firm talks with her. Sometimes she is receptive, sometimes she is defensive. Either way, nothing changes.  I signed her up for therapy but the process is taking forever and it is so difficult to watch in the meantime. 

Last year, she had her heart broken by her first love and was devastated for months. I assume the trauma of that situation is coming through into this relationship. I would hate to see her heart broken again, but part of me would be relieved if this boy would just say enough is enough and break up with her. I don't know if she will get the message on how to treat people otherwise, and I am not even sure that would get her to see how her behavior impacts others. She's so close to being an adult and I worry about her coping skills and how these will impact her future relationships as an adult if we don't make some sort of quick progress now. Help!

[1a1a]

If the opportunity presents itself to you again I think the best way you could assist in this case is by pep talking this boyfriend into having some boundaries (like ‘I love you dearly but this attack is unfair and I’m not going to go and hang out by myself until you can be civil again’)

 

This sounds awful to watch. (But then think also, the boyfriend is also fulfilling some faulty pattern from childhood by tolerating this). 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, almostemptynester said:

 part of me would be relieved if this boy would just say enough is enough and break up with her.

Sorry this is happening. Make an appointment with a physician for an evaluation of her physical and mental health.

This will give her an opportunity to speak to a professional privately and confidentiality. It could also be a good time for her to discuss contraception, STDs and other health concerns consistent with her age and afford her the privacy to do so..

Start with a clean bill of health. Many things can manifest in teen years, everything from latent mental health issues to possible experiments with substances, and so on. Ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support for her.

Maybe it's teen hormones/angst, maybe it's an anger problem, maybe it's depression, or other mental health issues. 

Are there other issues? How are her grades? Is she involved with school activities and planning for college? Are there siblings? Where is the father?

Try not to alienate her further by communicating with or siding with the BF. Stay out of her social life.  Focus solely on her general demeanor and what's driving her overall anger.

[Jibralta]

6 hours ago, almostemptynester said:

He has even contacted me out of desperation because she gets SO angry over silly things and he doesn't know how to handle her or wants me to try to intervene (which I have mixed feelings about - I am not wanting to get in the middle but happy he feels comfortable coming to me). 

I've tried everything. I've had calm yet firm talks with her.

My parents were not perfect by any means, but one thing I appreciate to this day (I am 46) is that they did not insert themselves into my social or romantic life. They let me make my own decisions and take my own lumps. 

If you want your daughter to develop adult coping skills then she needs to learn to deal with the consequences of her actions--by herself. Sooner, rather than later. If her consequences are always mommy or daddy intervening, she will be very slow to reach adulthood.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Jibralta said:

My parents were not perfect by any means, but one thing I appreciate to this day (I am 46) is that they did not insert themselves into my social or romantic life. They let me make my own decisions and take my own lumps. 

If you want your daughter to develop adult coping skills then she needs to learn to deal with the consequences of her actions--by herself. Sooner, rather than later. If her consequences are always mommy or daddy intervening, she will be very slow to reach adulthood.

I could not agree more and please don't discuss with the bf -as you mentioned he has his own parents. If  your daughter asks for help or if, separately, as her mom you think she needs therapy then you can give your daughter input and/or find a therapist.

I intervene in my son's friendships (he is 14) only if there is something inappropriate going on I overhear -he and his real life friends play games online and 99.9% of the time all is well but the mom of his BFF asked me years ago to please just keep a general eye on things especially when other boys are invited to play.  But I don't go beyond monitoring for inappropriate or bad language/inappropriate game - and the boys know there's a parent "supervising".  

When my son was 7 we were at the playground. He had his hotwheels cars with him.  A boy came over to where we were sitting and saw the cars. Same age-ish.  My son offered to play with him/share his cars but I noticed my son went about it in a heavy-handed way -kind of controlling/micromanaging.  At that moment I decided to do a total hands off - rather than suggest to him to back off/let the other boy have a say, etc. I wanted him to learn in that moment the consequences of behaving that way (yes I would have intervened if he was more than just annoying, of course).  Within a few minutes the boy walked away.  Later we talked about it (my son wasn't devastated -more -surprised) and I explained how the boy might have felt.  It was a great learning experience. It's no different with you and your daughter -she's annoying the heck out of him it seems but there's no abuse/criminal-like activity so-- hands off.

About 15 years ago my friend's daughter who was about 17 was dating a bad man -I mean he did bad things in the community - bad rep.  She asked me to talk to her daughter as I'd known her since birth basically.  I tried.  She was stubborn -wouldn't listen to any information I provided had an answer for everything.  A year later she  realized and ended things - and her reputation was trashed for awhile because he spread lies about her.  Look - this stuff happens -this young woman recovered, did fine - I'm not even sure I should have spoken to her but the mom/my friend was desperate.  It did no good despite her trusting me/me having "reasonable" things to say.  

JMHO from another mom of a teen!

 

[Lambert]

There's definitely room for growth here. I'm not sure your stern "be nice to your boyfriend" is really going to do anything but put you in a weird position. What you going to do? referee the honeymoon? 

I agree with @Jibralta and @Batya33 stay out of it. Bullys only learn when they suffer their own consequences. 

But I do wonder if, she is only mean to him? How are her conflict resolution skills with you, her siblings, peers? 

How does she handle other disappointments?

I have seen people applaud women for being the more aggressive person in a relationship... almost like a badge of honor "she's in charge.  he does whatever she says etc". to me, this train of thought is so odd...  the same behavior is an outrage when it's the man ruling the woman.  

[Coily]

I'll take a different approach here, I think it's okay to make a suggestion or two to the BF when he asks for help. Now you need to limit it severely, but as it sounds like he is getting very little guidance at home sometimes another adult can help. Does he have both a mother and father or is it a single parent household?

The biggest piece of advice he needs to hear is that it's okay for him to stand up for himself when she bullies him. He needs to know that he doesn't have to put up with her crap for "looking at her funny." There is no way, from the sounds of it, that your daughter will listen to advice to not be a broomstick to him. Beyond that line of advice, no need for direct involvement.

[Seraphim]

37 minutes ago, Coily said:

I'll take a different approach here, I think it's okay to make a suggestion or two to the BF when he asks for help. Now you need to limit it severely, but as it sounds like he is getting very little guidance at home sometimes another adult can help. Does he have both a mother and father or is it a single parent household?

The biggest piece of advice he needs to hear is that it's okay for him to stand up for himself when she bullies him. He needs to know that he doesn't have to put up with her crap for "looking at her funny." There is no way, from the sounds of it, that your daughter will listen to advice to not be a broomstick to him. Beyond that line of advice, no need for direct involvement.

I agree, I have a son and I wouldn’t let him stand to be bullied. I have definitely taught him to stand up for himself if he is being used or bullied. 

[Cherylyn]

I agree with others.  Don't be a meddlesome parent.  Let those two figure out how the relationship transpires.  At the rate it's going,  sooner or later the boyfriend will burnout.  He will have enough and call it quits. 

Your daughter is only 17.  She has a lot of growing up to do throughout her life.  She will learn from life's experiences and human interactions.  Either pain or joy will determine how she navigates herself with others.  Over time,  she will teach herself interpersonal skills.  She will learn the hard way which is the best way.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Seraphim said:

I agree, I have a son and I wouldn’t let him stand to be bullied. I have definitely taught him to stand up for himself if he is being used or bullied. 

I would not do this for someone else's son who is dating my teenage daughter though.  I'd defer to the parents and tell him to seek out help from his parents -but not from me.

[Seraphim]

7 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I would not do this for someone else's son who is dating my teenage daughter though.  I'd defer to the parents and tell him to seek out help from his parents -but not from me.

No, I understand, but I have told my son not to let anyone not even women to put him down and bully him. 

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, Seraphim said:

No, I understand, but I have told my son not to let anyone not even women to put him down and bully him. 

Same of course

[Coily]

Sorry no. When a teenager is seeking out advice from an adult in a positive authority role, give the kid honest advice. Maybe they feel embarrassed by asking their parents, or get really harmful advice? It would be meddling to offer unsolicited advice or telling this young man what to say. 

 

[Batya33]

20 minutes ago, Coily said:

Sorry no. When a teenager is seeking out advice from an adult in a positive authority role, give the kid honest advice. Maybe they feel embarrassed by asking their parents, or get really harmful advice? It would be meddling to offer unsolicited advice or telling this young man what to say. 

 

The problem here is he is dating her daughter so she is biased and it's not a good look if his parents find out.  It's fine if she asks the parents if it's ok with them. If it is then sure thing.  But she should ask and tell him she would have to ask first.  If a teenager came to me with an emergency or a crisis and sought me out as a responsible, caring adult what I would do if I couldn't contact the parents (or if the parents were the problem) would be to engage other professional resources -someone at his school perhaps or at a nonprofit - I wouldn't get involved to a deep degree on my own -without consulting with a professional like a social worker, a child advocate, etc. in the situation because I might do more harm than good.

 

[boltnrun]

If a teenager asked me for help I would help. Within reason, of course. My former friend's thirteen year old son asked me to buy him beer and of course I said no. But another teen I knew was sexually active and her mom wasn't accessible to her so I took her to a clinic for an exam and some medical advice when she asked me to. Was I overstepping? Not sure and I honestly don't care. She needed help and I helped 🤷‍♀️

[Coily]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

The problem here is he is dating her daughter so she is biased and it's not a good look if his parents find out.  It's fine if she asks the parents if it's ok with them. If it is then sure thing.  But she should ask and tell him she would have to ask first.  If a teenager came to me with an emergency or a crisis and sought me out as a responsible, caring adult what I would do if I couldn't contact the parents (or if the parents were the problem) would be to engage other professional resources -someone at his school perhaps or at a nonprofit - I wouldn't get involved to a deep degree on my own -without consulting with a professional like a social worker, a child advocate, etc. in the situation because I might do more harm than good.

 

Sorry, I think you’re fundamentally wrong here. This teenager is asking how to deal with someone the OP is intimately familiar with, she maybe biased; but she’s clearly concerned about her daughter’s negative behavior.

Professionals are overkill in a situation like the OP has described. Plus I would bet that would only complicate things.

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, Coily said:

Sorry, I think you’re fundamentally wrong here. This teenager is asking how to deal with someone the OP is intimately familiar with, she maybe biased; but she’s clearly concerned about her daughter’s negative behavior.

Professionals are overkill in a situation like the OP has described. Plus I would bet that would only complicate things.

Yes and I would bow out as I'd be too biased as the mom to give a clear answer. If a parent felt objective that's fine -I know I wouldn't be able to and that would be unfair to the teenager seeking my input.  So obviously I'd see if it warranted professional resources -it might not- and as I also mentioned I'd suggest he talk to his parents and/or ask his parents if they wanted me to speak with him about this since he is a minor.  

I think it's overkill for the mom to insert herself in the way she is doing and in particular to have these personal discussions with the boyfriend, on top of trying to manage her daughter's relationship.

We certainly can agree to disagree. I think raising children takes a village and my philosophy also is to defer to the parents as much as possible unless they've put me in a parental role like the small group of teenagers (ages 13-16) we took to a game place for my son's bday in February.  Even then I make sure to ask the parents beforehand if I'm not sure of certain restrictions.  Analogous to this situation -if one of the party guests came to me and said another guest was not being nice (didn't happen thank goodness) I would address the situation as best I could but if he asked me advice on whether he should continue the friendship in the future, or how he should address other similar situations I'd be careful not to delve too deeply because I would assume the parents would want first dibs on how to advise him generally. 

So if my son's girlfriend (hypothetically) came to me about a specific conflict with my son - like he won't apologize for being late - I would tell her that I understood my son had been rude about being late, ask her if it had happened before and tell her to figure out whether she wanted space to think about how she felt or wanted to stay around and talk about it later.

But I wouldn't delve deeply into the relationship beyond that specific conflict.  And I would validate her feelings but make it clear that I thought she should figure this out on her own and perhaps ask her own parents what they thought.  That's just me.  There are many ways to be part of a village helping to raise and guide children and teenagers IMHO.  

[greendots]

I wouldn't be okay at all with my hypothetical child treating anyone like rubbish. I didn't (hypothetically) raise them to behave that way.

You have the right as her mum to let her know how disappointed you are in her behaviour. You didn't raise her to treat others like rubbish.

Also, you have the right to advise her boyfriend. He may not have anyone else to confide in. Whilst I wouldn't meddle in their relationship, giving general advice I feel is fair game.

[catfeeder]

Sounds as though daughter is at the end of her tether with this relationship and wants out.

I'd let daughter know that I feel for how unhappy she's become, and I'd let her know that if she wants to end this relationship, it's a valid option, it doesn't make her a bad person, and if there's anything I can do to help she can count on me.

However, mistreating someone is NOT an option, and if she wants to work through this with a counselor, I'll pay for the services. If she'd like me to take her there, I will. I can either wait in the car or the waiting room, whichever she'd prefer.

[MissCanuck]

I think you have done all you can in this situation, OP. 

This relationship is going to run its course, sooner or later. I would keep you interactions with her boyfriend limited, and continue to try to support your daughter in getting help for her anger and insecurity. 

Beyond that, time is on your side. They're only 17 and given how dysfunctional it already is, it will probably fizzle out fairly soon. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, MissCanuck said:

I think you have done all you can in this situation, OP. 

This relationship is going to run its course, sooner or later. I would keep you interactions with her boyfriend limited, and continue to try to support your daughter in getting help for her anger and insecurity. 

Beyond that, time is on your side. They're only 17 and given how dysfunctional it already is, it will probably fizzle out fairly soon. 

Yes hopefully. And I agree with general advice like if she's not playing nicely in the sandbox so to speak then of course tell her you're going home/leaving, etc.