Unfortunately Money Is A Factor

[Tonight.majestic]

2 hours ago, dias said:

Physician? Pfff I can  understand if you wrote data engineer but physician? Meh...

LoL, what do you mean? 

[Batya33]

I used a few dating sites over a period of years. Everything I wrote was true. My photos were accurate. It meant that men who wanted someone with large breasts or who looked like a model or who were “scared” by a woman who was up front about looking for marriage and family wouldn’t choose me. And that was fine.
I spent time contacting people. I had so little free time and was there to find a spouse. So I couldn’t stand when people misused the sites including to “experiment” - it’s deceitful and wastes peoples time. I was contacted by a matchmaker with a fake profile and by many men who lied about basic facts - age and marital status and where they lived. And weight meaning obese instead of thin. Not a couple of pounds.
 

even  lied about what they were looking for. Wasted my time. Even fifteen minutes of being scammed is too much. It wasn’t fair to people like me.  Those “experiments” waste peoples time who are there for well intentioned reasons whether it’s marriage or dating. 
I did report two liars on eharmony which I only used once.  Luckily at least one was removed. I knew he was serious with one of my friends while pursuing another.  
Anyway I think dating sites are good if you meet in person ASAP and don’t date online and take a deep breath and move on when you’re a victim of someone’s lies. 

[dias]

4 minutes ago, Tonight.majestic said:

LoL, what do you mean? 

https://www.information-age.com/data-engineer-sexiest-job-21st-century-123480578/

😎

[Batya33]

On 11/22/2021 at 2:15 AM, Jibralta said:

When I first did online dating, that's what I hoped too. This was back when I was in my mid- to late-20s, so around 2004. It was eHarmony and I set it up to release my photo after 3-4 message volleys. I wanted guys who were interested in my profile more than my looks. And it worked. I did get dates.

But when I did online dating again in 2009, I got zero interest until I posted photos. Times had changed and I got the message: Physical attractiveness is pretty much the number one concern for people who are looking for a romantic relationship. Compatibility on other levels is secondary. If you don't pass through the gate of physical attraction, those other levels don't matter. 

Is that smart? I don't know. But I once tried dating a guy who I wasn't physically attracted to and it was unpleasant. I never did that again. I'm not looking for arm candy; I just draw the line at a physical relationship with anyone that I am not physically attracted to. Emotional and intellectual attraction do not make up for physical attraction. All three must be there.

I agree that you can't really determine attractiveness until you meet in person. Photos can misrepresent. I've found that they were usually more flattering rather than less so, and the quick meet in person got to the bottom of that right away. Photos were still the first 'gate,' so to speak. If I didn't like the photos, I didn't go forward. Yes, personality goes a long way, but it doesn't go that far. 

Now, having been in a relationship with my partner for nearly 10 years, physical attractiveness takes a back seat. We can gain and lose weight, have bad breath, have greasy hair, be a little stinky.... the love would still be there. We could (god forbid) become physically handicapped or disfigured and the love would still be there. But that is after years of growing the relationship. 

For me I said no if the photos were inappropriate or repulsed me. I of course posted photos but for me meeting in person was about looks and sparkle.  Photos don’t show sparkle or energy.  I was attracted to men who sparkled and gave off positive vibes and carried themselves with confidence not arrogance.  Photos do not show that. They can’t even if they try to. 

[Jibralta]

40 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Photos do not show that. They can’t even if they try to. 

Agree!

[Cherylyn]

On 11/22/2021 at 2:27 PM, itsallgrand said:

Thank you, itsallgrand. I appreciated what you wrote.

When you have money or if you're not that desperate for money, it's easy not to worry because the level of worry isn't that big of a concern.  Hardship and struggle is a tension filled marriage, family life and stressful household in general.

I'm sorry for your and your family's tragedy.  A hard life is something you'll never forget or at least this has been the case for me anyway.

I agree, I too don't want to be at the hands of someone else for my security.  My mother taught me to become a financially strong lady and I heeded her advice.  I don't need anyone to survive because I can make it on my own.   

My in-laws are self made people.  They started with nothing and they have their rags to riches story. 

Thank you.  When I met my husband it was pure dumb luck.  We are very compatible, share same values, beliefs and we're similar to his parents. 

Thank you for your acknowledgment.  I appreciate it, itsallgrand.  You are very correct.  I had never forgotten where I came from.  My bad, very painful memories steer me in the right direction.

[Fudgie]

Cherylyn, 

Your husband and his family sound wonderful. It sounds like your in-laws are a great influence and you could model after them. Do you think having that modeled for you was pivotal? In that, hadn't that happened for you, things may not have worked out as well? 

I can honestly say I've never met a married couple, in person, that I would consider to be a good model for myself. Even the "good marriages" I've known, I have seen some toxic elements here and there that turned me off. 

I'm deeply cynical now and beyond redemption in this area. Relationships feel more transactional. I do feel that I am steering my own life, and a partner can either ride along and help me, or I'll go alone. 

[East4]

If you look at Melinda Gates, she sure looks like a class lady and not like a model. And before marrying Bill Gates, she had accomplished impressive achievements herself. Rumor has it that before proposing, Bill Gates asked her to take several tests to be sure that he would marry a smart, highly intelligent woman. Not a bimbo.

Water seeks its own level. A smart, accomplished and most importantly, self-confident man will look for an equally smart, accomplished and classy lady. 

An insecure, or narcissistic  men will need a bimbo trophy girlfriend to show off with, to assuage his own insecurities and make him feel good about himself. These are habitually the men frequenting the strip clubs. So, drawing general conclusions based on a sample of strip club visitors, is a very limiting and skewed view.

Looking at the US first ladies too, I would recall only one who has been professionally a beauty woman. And you all know that narcissism is her husband's middle name. The other first ladies, are certainly very presentable, but they impress with their class, manners and smartness, rather than with pure looks.

The point is that relying on looks will only get you an initial attraction, but looks alone are not sufficient to sustain a long term relationship that a marriage is. It takes some substance, like accomplishment, wits, intelligence, self-confidence to do that. The marriages, where the woman only contributes with her looks, are either short lived, or toxic, in the sense that the woman's beauty only serves an insecure or narcissistic man to feel good about himself.  

Beauty is only skin deep. And then, passed the honey-moon stage, a couple cannot stay all day long in bed, enjoying pleasures of the flesh. Then what comes to the front is the ability of a woman to hold an engaging conversation, to manage practical tasks, strength of character, when life, or her man throws an unpleasant surprise (men normally do at some point).

[dias]

36 minutes ago, East4 said:

If you look at Melinda Gates, she sure looks like a class lady and not like a model. And before marrying Bill Gates, she had accomplished impressive achievements herself. Rumor has it that before proposing, Bill Gates asked her to take several tests to be sure that he would marry a smart, highly intelligent woman. Not a bimbo.

Sure she is smart, it was a costly divorce, she got much more than a bimbo would get. 

[East4]

19 minutes ago, dias said:

Sure she is smart, it was a costly divorce, she got much more than a bimbo would get. 

Of course. A bimbo would not be able to count passed 1000 😉

[dias]

14 minutes ago, East4 said:

Of course. A bimbo would not be able to count passed 1000 😉

That's the whole point sometimes 

[East4]

Melinda Gates took with her the share that she had invested in her marriage.

She was wealthy before marriage, and she has been wealthy after the marriage, there is nothing unusual about that.

 

 

[Seraphim]

37 minutes ago, East4 said:

Melinda Gates took with her the share that she had invested in her marriage.

She was wealthy before marriage, and she has been wealthy after the marriage, there is nothing unusual about that.

 

 

After that many years of marriage you put in enough time and effort and blood , sweat and tears to deserve every penny. 

[East4]

13 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

After that many years of marriage you put in enough time and effort and blood , sweat and tears to deserve every penny. 

Exactly my thoughts.

I do not understand some people's thinking that after a divorce women are supposed to leave with just the shirt on her back, after a heavy investment of her time, energy, money and health (because child bearing and rearing does take a toll on women's health).

[dias]

10 minutes ago, East4 said:

Exactly my thoughts.

I do not understand some people's thinking that after a divorce women are supposed to leave with just the shirt on her back, after a heavy investment of her time, energy, money and health (because child bearing and rearing does take a toll on women's health).

Because 50% is fair only when both make relatively the same money, not when one partner has 100 billion more (that he made before she met her anyway). The law is fair only in 1 scenario out of 100000. 

Like a friend used to say marriage is for poor and middle class. Suffice to say he got married first hahaha

[Seraphim]

20 minutes ago, East4 said:

Exactly my thoughts.

I do not understand some people's thinking that after a divorce women are supposed to leave with just the shirt on her back, after a heavy investment of her time, energy, money and health (because child bearing and rearing does take a toll on women's health).

I can tell you if I got divorced today I would be leaving with half. I sloughed the long hill with him to build what we have and I deserve it. Plus I birthed and raised our child. 

[East4]

26 minutes ago, dias said:

Because 50% is fair only when both make relatively the same money, not when one partner has 100 billion more (that he made before she met her anyway). The law is fair only in 1 scenario out of 100000. 

Like a friend used to say marriage is for poor and middle class. Suffice to say he got married first hahaha

As I said, women's contribution to a marriage comes in many ways, not limited to monetary expression. 

While women spend precious time and energy in cleaning, cooking and child rearing, men build their careers. At the time of the divorce, women's contribution is largely overlooked, because many people, like yourself are looking only at the monetary contribution.

Perhaps one day when you father children and you see first hand the amount of effort it would take from your wife to raise these children, you will be better prepared to contribute to the discussion.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, East4 said:

Exactly my thoughts.

I do not understand some people's thinking that after a divorce women are supposed to leave with just the shirt on her back, after a heavy investment of her time, energy, money and health (because child bearing and rearing does take a toll on women's health).

Not all women birth children.  Some have none and some adopt or use surrogates. Some have easy births like my niece.  Then have post partum. Or not. Some women let others raise their children and do all the surrounding work.
We know someone whose wife worked full time and left early morning. So he hired someone for two hours a day to come in and get his young daughter ready for preschool and pre k and kindergarten. So they outsourced work i did for years by myself as a full timer at home and I still do mornings with breakfast and school bus and school prep plus night before prep.  So I wouldn’t paint it with a board brush. There’s also the argument that people who choose to have kids choose the work and financial investment that goes into it. 

[East4]

Adopting a child and rising it entails the same responsiblities as the natural birth, I wouldn't separate the two. Women who voluntarily chose to not having children, are still in the minority.

I have been as well a full time employed mom, so speaking from experience. When my boss was asking me to stay in office till later to finish something urgent, my reply would always be "no, i have to pickup my son from school". In the same situation, my husband at the time would do what his boss said, and tell me to go pick up our son, even it was his turn. Guess who climbed the corporate ladder faster? 🙂

My career took off only after my son went to college (fortunately i was still young). 

Men who take active steps to boost their wive's careers are rare. Isolated cases here and there, but not mainstream.

[mical]

1 hour ago, East4 said:

 

Men who take active steps to boost their wive's careers are rare. Isolated cases here and there, but not mainstream.

Yep, I only know two men and it’s probably because here men get generous paternity leave of 80% net salary for almost a year and childcare is free (well maybe 60 euros a month) up until a child is 6, so even a few days a week off would be great help

Id love to stay at home and get those valuable moments with my child growing up, way worth anything more than meeting a performance target 🎯 at least for me..and climb a ladder.. which I’m sure when I’m 80 and in my rocking chair 🪑 won’t matter as much as special moments with loved ones .. 

This may sound weird/funny - but because I know household tasks are lots of work and it’s unfair if one person does them all, I recently downloaded Martha Stewart’s daily, weekly, monthly checklist 🤣🤣🤣 I don’t think any guys soon will be expected to outdo Martha Stewart

I’d also gladly switch corporate office life for a more fulfilling life with loved ones any day..to me that’s way more important anyways but to each their own...

hmm just need to decide what to put in my dating app profile 🧐 lol 

But yeah totally agree that there should be compensation towards one person for taking care of everyone and helping boost another’s career. Sounds fair.

Also think workplaces should be more flexible and accommodating especially to women ... or at least revolve more around families instead of the other way around hmm

[Seraphim]

1 hour ago, East4 said:

Adopting a child and rising it entails the same responsiblities as the natural birth, I wouldn't separate the two. Women who voluntarily chose to not having children, are still in the minority.

I have been as well a full time employed mom, so speaking from experience. When my boss was asking me to stay in office till later to finish something urgent, my reply would always be "no, i have to pickup my son from school". In the same situation, my husband at the time would do what his boss said, and tell me to go pick up our son, even it was his turn. Guess who climbed the corporate ladder faster? 🙂

My career took off only after my son went to college (fortunately i was still young). 

Men who take active steps to boost their wive's careers are rare. Isolated cases here and there, but not mainstream.

Absolutely my business and employment comes to a crashing halt for my husband’s over and over and over. I was ALWAYS the one who picked our son it was never him. Ever. He was away from the time my son was 8 until he was 15. 

[mical]

Anyways to OPs question I’ll just add i think it’s normal and healthy to wanna make sure your potential partner will be financially ok in the future.

Even if he is not where he wants to be yet, if he’s motivated, has ambition to progress etc then that’s great..

Just healthy and within reason what I see.. 

Would be different if he was making $80,000 a year and that was too low and the minimum requirements are: yacht, villa in Marbella, at least $300,000 salary, big family inheritance, 5 vacations a year... etc etc (Bit of exaggeration)

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, East4 said:

Adopting a child and rising it entails the same responsiblities as the natural birth, I wouldn't separate the two. Women who voluntarily chose to not having children, are still in the minority.

I have been as well a full time employed mom, so speaking from experience. When my boss was asking me to stay in office till later to finish something urgent, my reply would always be "no, i have to pickup my son from school". In the same situation, my husband at the time would do what his boss said, and tell me to go pick up our son, even it was his turn. Guess who climbed the corporate ladder faster? 🙂

My career took off only after my son went to college (fortunately i was still young). 

Men who take active steps to boost their wive's careers are rare. Isolated cases here and there, but not mainstream.

So it’s not the same as far as toll on the body (I had a postpartum stroke) and other pregnancy related issues.  Otherwise once the child is here of course it’s the same.  I was never looking for any career boost or advancement when I finally married and had a child because I was 42.
 

I had fifteen years of intense, competitive work in my second career (three in my first ) and knew I wanted to be home full time and contribute financially as needed from the nest egg I’d started 11 years earlier when I was single but knew I’d want to be full time caregiver if I was blessed with a husband and child. 

I often covered for full time working moms when I was single - because they didn’t want to or could not take the pay cut associated with flex time.  This meant working holiday weekends (“can’t find a sitter”) and made my husband hunt and social life more difficult because of weekend work and unpredictable weekend work.

 I didn’t find it particularly fair since they signed up for the hectic more than full time work in my chosen type of field.  But yes I probably advanced a bit faster because I could say yes more often. I don’t know just a guess. 

I have friends with kids who also want to keep advancing in their careers right after having a baby.  As one female friend put it - she wishes her husband - who is temporarily unemployed- could be the “wind beneath her wings “.  He’s not. I have women doctor friends who told me you can’t just stop work for years and expect to re-enter the field.  I’m sure that’s true.  It’s so hard. 
I hated being “still single “ throughout my 30s but it was a huge benefit as far as the career piece.  I’ve worked part time now for over 5 years in my field. Huge pay cut and no real room for advancement. It’s a part time program that of course attracts mostly moms of young kids.  Took me over a year to find the right job. Started when our son was 7.  
 

I love my job. I love the intellectual stimulation. I love most of the work.  I work with great people.  My son benefits by seeing how hard I work - yes - even part time - and likes discussing my work with me now and again. If I wanted advancement and the big dollars I’d hate it for sure.  But I don’t. I respect all who do and I feel for those in the unfair situation with two parents working full time and yet mom does all the prep and child work.  Some of those moms I’m sure just don’t want to take the time to train dad.  Many don’t.  It’s so hard. I’m sorry !!

[Batya33]

22 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Absolutely my business and employment comes to a crashing halt for my husband’s over and over and over. I was ALWAYS the one who picked our son it was never him. Ever. He was away from the time my son was 8 until he was 15. 

We’re traveling and I’ve pointed out to my husband that it feels like all the prep work I do looks invisible and no big deal until someone needs something. Or forgets to anticipate a need.  As simple as - bring the reusable water bottle with you in case the airport dining option is a $5 bottle of water. Or have tissues/wipes/bandaids/extra bag to carry stuff/ layers in case it gets cold etc etc. Have a list of what you’ll need for the kid and prep the night before.  Many many men do this sort of task for their job job. And yet it would never ever occur to most men I think to do so for the child. Because moms bag is always full of all that stuff if you need it.
My husband lost our son’s glasses years ago because he let him build a sandcastle by the ocean and didn’t think to take the glasses and hold them (let alone have a glasses case) as the waves rushed in and my son probably took them off to clean or they fell off. I think more moms than dads anticipate those situations and take preventative steps. He said back then I should have taken the glasses before they left. Right. 

[mylolita]

This is so interesting ya’ll 😎

 

To me this is simply highlighting the general differences between men and woman. Here we are ladies, with all the essentials and more there, kissing the boo boos whilst putting on lipstick and needing about 8 arms with your current job list looking like a windows screen about 15 pages all running at once! But then their father comes in at bedtime, throws them on the bed and all you can hear are screams of laughter. No prep or soothing coos or ironed pjamas or cleaned up spills to be seen but, your babies are happy and in love with you for different reasons. Mums and Dads just do things differently, that’s why together, when right, they make a pretty awesome team.
 

I don’t think you can avoid stress in life. Money to me swaps one kind of stress for another type. You get different flavours of stress. You’re welcome! Even without work and children, people you know die, become ill - things happen. Office stress, toddler tantrum stress, wondering whether people want to be with you for your wealth or for who you are, wondering whether you can pay the mortgage that month - all stress. But I would argue! The reward of looking after and having your child stroke your face and look deep into your eyes and tell you they love you trumps all those hard times! I have never known “job satisfaction” like it!

 

Financial struggle is not nice, no way. But just because you have money does not mean all your problems float away, or else there would be no divorced millionaires if money made happy marriages, or happy lives for that matter.

 

And regarding women in employment, well, my husband employs a few people and as a small business, would you rather employ a man or woman who has a grown family and will not rush off as soon as you employ them and need full maternity, paternity, and all that comes with it pay? Just another harsh but true fact of life. Very young children need their mothers desperately. When they are sick in the middle of the night, they don’t cry out for Grandma or even Daddy - the call you hear is “Mama! Mamaaaa!” And that is why women generally can’t match men in the work place until their child rearing days are over, and there’s no shame in that. It is an honour to be needed so desperately.

 

I have a hankering, it’s corny, but I have a feeling deep down in my gut, that when our moment comes and you have your final moments on this green earth, you won’t be thinking about what degrees you amassed, or the digits of your current accounts, or your promotions or how many homes you owned or didn’t own or, any of that. I think, if you are very lucky, you will remember those moments that brim with love. If you have a lot of those in your life, then I think you are rich. The wealthiest people I know, and people who have nothing - they just want to be happy. If you can stand there and say I did it my way, I was more good than bad, and my life was lived and full of love then, you can’t do any better than that. 
 

What the heck, it’s only paper!

 

And PS - Dias. Hahaha! I will take it as a compliment that you like my angel on this and, yes, I do have a younger sister! Brunette! Engaged I am afraid (I’m not keen on her boyfriend but whaddyagonnado! And my female cousin is nothing like me, extremely shy but 6 foot tall and leggy as anything! I’m sure you shouldn’t have a problem! Us old fashioned gals might be a little hard to find but if you meet one you will know because we can’t keep our mouths shut - HA!)