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Feeling Conflicted About Next Steps in Relationship


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I am 30/F and my boyfriend is turning 32 next month. We've been together a little over 2 years now. We've been living together in some form for a little over 1 year. For some context, we met right when I was in a transition period in my life. I was in the process of leaving my job to start law school and I got a new puppy. I gave him the following warnings before we even started seeing each other: (1) I was about to start law school, and would be very busy & focused on that, (2) I have a puppy that needs virtually all of my attention outside of law school, (3) I wasn't really looking to just *** around & get into situationships because I'm at a point in my life where I am looking for the man I am going to marry and have a family with. With all that, we started seeing each other non-exclusively, and then we went exclusive. We moved pretty quickly after that. We both agreed that if we could make it through me being in law school for 3 years, we could get married after that, but no time before that. 

So anyway, as you can imagine. I've been busy with school. I have also held several jobs here and there clerking for firms. He hasn't had like a regular job since I've known him. He works for a company his friend started from home. When we first met, he was very productive and working very hard on it. COVID hit, and things slowed down. He stopped working as hard. He has been all over the place as to what it is he wants to do for a career. I never really asked about money, because he always pays his half of the bills. I kind of figured, we're not married so Idc where his money comes from as long as he pays the bills. Anyway, I always kind of suspected his dad foots his bills, and come to find out, that's true. He seems to be constantly spending money. He recently got his real estate license and was signed with a luxury real estate office, but he almost never goes to the office or the trainings and has not been apart of any transactions. He wants to become a full-time crypto-trader I think. 

Anyway, backtracking to a few months ago, we attended my old roommate's wedding together and ON THE WAY home, he tried to tell me maybe he wasn't getting enough out of this relationship. I was surprised because I do a lot for him. He does a lot for me. I have always felt this relationship was pretty equal. We talked a bit more, and he thinks it is because he feels bad his dad pays his rent, and he was considering going to live with his dad. He tried to bring this up with me, that maybe we should go live with one of his parents (who are divorced and live separately) in order to "save money." I refused, because that's just never been me. Anyway, we settled with me saying that I understand his feelings and that I appreciate the support he's provided to me throughout law school and I am here to provide that very same support for him to find his career. Anyway, he told me he WAS going to propose to me during our trip to Greece but probably not anymore & that he didn't have any money to buy a ring regardless (LOL). 

So a few months later, we took our trip to Greece. It was amazing! I loved every moment of it. He did not propose. He is constantly making it a point to tell me that living abroad at least part time is a big priority for him. I tell him, sure, but you need to have money first. I am graduating from law school in December and planning to take the Bar in February. He (although he has no money of his own right now that I am aware of except crypto assets) made an appointment to get a half sleeve in January. There is a little part of me that is kind of concerned here. I love this man to death and this is by far the best relationship I've ever been in and the happiest I've ever been. However, I am about to start my career. I'm at a point in my life where I want to get married and start a family. I do not mind living abroad part-time, even with children. My career may not enable me to do that, at least not right away. 

I feel, on the one hand, upset that I am not getting proposed to, and don't feel like he will propose to me. I feel, on the other hand, that maybe we want different things out of life. I'm unsure at this point whether marriage and children are among his desires. He knows for sure they're among mine. I also want to make sure he has some kind of stable income or at least a path toward one before we get married and start a family. I don't mind being the breadwinner, but we live in an expensive state and we definitely need dual income. I would feel guilty if we got married and started a family while his dad was footing all of his bills. I also hate feeling dependent on others financially. 

I want to discuss all this, and we have discussed this in bits and pieces, but he never really provides straight answers or voices his opinions except that he knows he needs to figure out his career, that he wants to do something in bitcoin, and that he wants to travel and/or live abroad. I'm not really sure what to do or how to move forward, but I feel kind of stuck. My plan is to not really deal with this until I am done with the Bar exam but I was just hoping I could get some outside opinions or guidance! 

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Let him go. He doesn't want to get married, be tied down or be financially responsible.

He wants be a spoiled  kid, spend daddy's money on hedonistic selfish pursuits, so let him.

Unfortunately, this marriage, jobs, family thing is a dream you are in totally alone. He's just coasting until you get sick of his irresponsible behavior..

 If you want a grown man who will be a responsible caring involved family man, this is not your man.

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Why not propose to him? And are you sure you want to be the main breadwinner? Does he want to be a "stay at home" parent? I too had an intense career following an intense grad school and I get the sense -because I am like you in certain ways and know of many like you- that part of you liked being the power part of the couple, the leader, the more successful one (I am not like you in that way at all - just the first part). But now you're seeing the downsides of that approach.  You liked calling the shots at the beginning -telling him in an in your face kind of way -take it or leave it but this is who I am and these are my priorities.  Obviously that worked for him back then.  But it doesn't seem to now. 

Now that it's reality time he doesn't like playing second fiddle to your greater success professionally.  He does like spending his days contemplating his navel about his future jobs/career, etc but he's weary of the initial dynamic and his admiration for your success is now taking a back seat to his desire to explore different paths and explore the world differently.

He won't give you a straight answer to your questions but he's already shown by his actions that he no longer wishes to marry you.  Now you can propose of course -I mean you live together, no need to play all the traditional gender roles games here - but my sense is this has nothing to do with $ for a ring.  He doesn't want to marry you.  You are in your 30s.  You probably want to start to consider the bio clock or freezing your eggs.  I didn't start trying till I was almost 41.  I was one of the lucky ones.  I got pregnant naturally, gave birth at 42, am now 55.  I wanted to be married before having a baby and married to the right person so I waited that long.  

I would move on if I were you but if you want you can propose and stop asking all the "questions" - the only question you need to ask him if is he will marry you (and the follow up for sure of a wedding date - not some vague "someday")

I'm sorry if you're disappointed and I hope this was helpful.

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5 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Why did you want him to propose when he's not anywhere near ready to be a husband or even employed?

If you want to wait it out that's fine, but don't be upset if you find yourself in this exact same situation with him 10 years from now. He has shown you clearly who he is.

That's why I asked if he plans to be the stay at home parent and how she really feels about being the main (sole??) breadwinner. Also are you prepared to pay for all the fees he will assess in getting this or that certification or license he doesn't follow up on?

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1 hour ago, moodindigo91 said:

He hasn't had like a regular job since I've known him.

1 hour ago, moodindigo91 said:

I always kind of suspected his dad foots his bills, and come to find out, that's true. He seems to be constantly spending money. He recently got his real estate license and was signed with a luxury real estate office, but he almost never goes to the office or the trainings and has not been apart of any transactions. He wants to become a full-time crypto-trader I think. 

This beggars belief. A man of 32 living off his Dad!  There are so many huge red flags I don't know where to start, Brie. 

1 hour ago, moodindigo91 said:

I feel, on the one hand, upset that I am not getting proposed to, and don't feel like he will propose to me.

You can be certain he won't.  Why are you even wasting your life with this idle, unreliable and generally irresponsible individual?!  He doesn't even know what he wants.  And he'll drift through life while Dad is there to shore him up. 

1 hour ago, moodindigo91 said:

I would feel guilty if we got married and started a family while his dad was footing all of his bills.

I cannot understand how you would even let this cross your mind. Marry a man of 32 who is not an adult! 

So, Brie, you absolutely jumped from the frying pan right into the fire.  This current individual is almost a duplicate of 2018 individual. 

"and my boyfriend was paying next to nothing. We did that on purpose, he makes a lot less money and he was supposed to be paying down his credit card debt since he was saving so much in rent (which he did not do at all)."

Why this compulsion to take on board this type of man, to "keep" and maintain a man?! 

You must look to yourself to discover why you do this, Brie.

It's a blessing this current individual did not propose and has no intention of so doing.  Otherwise you'd have taken him on and become the sole breadwinner for someone who is merely a freeloader!

Please focus on adult men who are not living off Dad and who have dignity and pride in earning their own living and would never contemplate living off a woman!

 

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You are studying to be an attorney, which means you are above average intelligence. You obviously have a bright future ahead of you.

So what's up with your attraction to "fixer upper" men? Or "man child" types?

Do you feel like you want to be in charge and run the relationship? 

I know someone like that. She deliberately chooses men who are uncertain and don't like making decisions because, she said, she wants to be sure she'll always get her own way. Problem with that is, like you the men she chooses are either unemployed or barely employed and she has to foot all the bills on her clerk's salary. And the men aren't accomplished in any way. It's a trade off that so far hasn't worked too well for her and she's nearly 50 years old.

If you're attracted to a relationship where you bring home the bacon and make all the decisions, then it makes no sense to complain that the men are wishy washy or lack follow through. This seems to be the type of man you like, so accept your choices. If it's not working for you any longer you can make some changes in the type of man you choose to become involved with.

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1 hour ago, moodindigo91 said:

I love this man to death and this is by far the best relationship I've ever been in and the happiest I've ever been.

 

1 hour ago, moodindigo91 said:

I was just hoping I could get some outside opinions or guidance! 

You take my breath away Brie.   A "best relationship" for you is keeping a man (of 32 who lives off his Dad and I am not going to ask why Dad continues to keep his useless 32 year old son!).  Then what for you would be a "worst relationship"?  

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7 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

You are studying to be an attorney, which means you are above average intelligence. You obviously have a bright future ahead of you.

So what's up with your attraction to "fixer upper" men? Or "man child" types?

Do you feel like you want to be in charge and run the relationship? 

I know someone like that. She deliberately chooses men who are uncertain and don't like making decisions because, she said, she wants to be sure she'll always get her own way. Problem with that is, like you the men she chooses are either unemployed or barely employed and she has to foot all the bills on her clerk's salary. And the men aren't accomplished in any way. It's a trade off that so far hasn't worked too well for her and she's nearly 50 years old.

If you're attracted to a relationship where you bring home the bacon and make all the decisions, then it makes no sense to complain that the men are wishy washy or lack follow through. This seems to be the type of man you like, so accept your choices. If it's not working for you any longer you can make some changes in the type of man you choose to become involved with.

LOL! Well, when I met current bf, the image was different. He's treated me wonderfully. He was working very hard. I wondered how he was paying his bills because it didn't seem like the company was profitable yet (they are now, thanks in large part to him). When we first met, he seemed like a man who had his *** together. It was not until relatively recently that I realized how deep in his father's pockets he is. I mean, I still don't know the full extent of it. But yes, I am not looking for a fixer upper man which is why I'm at this cross roads here because it seems like this is what I have here. It's just annoying bc I feel like I told him up front and made clear all along what I wanted. So how is it that I'm supposed to find a good man if they all seem to pretend to be something other than what they are! 

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8 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

 

You take my breath away Brie.   A "best relationship" for you is keeping a man (of 32 who lives off his Dad and I am not going to ask why Dad continues to keep his useless 32 year old son!).  Then what for you would be a "worst relationship"?  

LOL probably the last one. I appreciate it, but my current bf and my ex are nothing alike. My current bf is simply spoiled. My ex was bipolar without meds and abusive, toxic and controlling. Not the same. 

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6 minutes ago, moodindigo91 said:

how is it that I'm supposed to find a good man if they all seem to pretend to be something other than what they are! 

They ALL (men) most certainly do NOT pretend to be other than they are.  The problem here is Brie, that for some reason you drew another freeloader to you. All the men I know (husbands and otherwise) work extremely hard and do not live in la-la land en route to some distant Shangri-La.  They are balanced people who work hard, enjoy travel as and when possible, and certainly have the dignity not to live off anyone.  Ditch this person soonest and don't waste any more of your life. 

Awww, the poor unfortunate! He is just spoilt.  Bless his little heart. And this is what you want Brie. (and btw the last one also lived off you, albeit he had other appalling traits as well).  He is 32 Brie, and "spoilt" or not he can man up, get to work and stop day-dreaming and fantasising. 

The vast majority of men are hard-working individuals, and indeed there are many who work two jobs to keep going, and would never let it be said they are unable to keep themselves. 

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1 hour ago, moodindigo91 said:

(3) I wasn't really looking to just *** around & get into situationships because I'm at a point in my life where I am looking for the man I am going to marry and have a family with. With all that, we started seeing each other non-exclusively, and then we went exclusive. We moved pretty quickly after that. We both agreed that if we could make it through me being in law school for 3 years, we could get married after that

Okay, so this was YOUR plan.

 

1 hour ago, moodindigo91 said:

He hasn't had like a regular job since I've known him. He works for a company his friend started from home. When we first met, he was very productive and working very hard on it. COVID hit, and things slowed down. He stopped working as hard. He has been all over the place as to what it is he wants to do for a career.

 

1 hour ago, moodindigo91 said:

I always kind of suspected his dad foots his bills, and come to find out, that's true. He seems to be constantly spending money. He recently got his real estate license and was signed with a luxury real estate office, but he almost never goes to the office or the trainings and has not been apart of any transactions. He wants to become a full-time crypto-trader I think. 

So, as you kind of suspected.. and are right.

 

2 hours ago, moodindigo91 said:

to a few months ago, we attended my old roommate's wedding together and ON THE WAY home, he tried to tell me maybe he wasn't getting enough out of this relationship. I was surprised because I do a lot for him. He does a lot for me. I have always felt this relationship was pretty equal. We talked a bit more, and he thinks it is because he feels bad his dad pays his rent, and he was considering going to live with his dad. He tried to bring this up with me, that maybe we should go live with one of his parents (who are divorced and live separately) in order to "save money."

I think HE is conflicted. Not sure what he wants with you and his father.  Is considering moving to be with his father?

I feel he's not as into this as you are. 

2 hours ago, moodindigo91 said:

He did not propose. He is constantly making it a point to tell me that living abroad at least part time is a big priority for him.

Do you see this?  His wants...

 

2 hours ago, moodindigo91 said:

I feel, on the one hand, upset that I am not getting proposed to, and don't feel like he will propose to me. I feel, on the other hand, that maybe we want different things out of life. I'm unsure at this point whether marriage and children are among his desires.

Right... I see this as well.

 

You want to discuss all of this with him... in time.

So, set a plan date and write all you want to discuss down.. so you know how to and where you're going with this.

I agree with the thought he's just not where you're at with 'plans' and possibly feelings.... ( saying he doesn't feel he's getting enough out of this relationship).

So, arrange to have a heart to heart convo and get to the point of this with him.. and to stop beating around the bush about it all.

IMO, is time you figure out your own plans on your own and let this guy go live with dad.

 

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Description of moochers.

"Smiling at you at a coffee shop. Swirling ice in a drink someone bought them at a bar. Cracking a joke at the dog park. Moochers don’t have to stand at intersections asking for money or hold up a sign telling a hard-luck story. That’s because they’ve mastered the art of living off other people’s generosity.

 

No one can size up a potential donor or lender like a moocher. Do you have a soft spot for people who’ve fallen on hard times? Believe that most people are inherently good? If so, the moocher can sense you’re still unjaded enough to be an easy mark.

The good news is that a freeloader usually also knows from experience when one well is dry and it’s time to start pumping the next. When that happens, use that time to wise up and polish your own character-judging skills so the next time the moocher hits you up, you’ll know better."

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2 hours ago, moodindigo91 said:

feel, on the one hand, upset that I am not getting proposed to, and don't feel like he will propose to me. I feel, on the other hand, that maybe we want different things out of life. I'm unsure at this point whether marriage and children are among his desires. He knows for sure they're among mine. I also want to make sure he has some kind of stable income or at least a path toward one before we get married and start a family. I don't mind being the breadwinner, but we live in an expensive state and we definitely need dual income.

You are on point. All your concerns are valid.

As boltnrun said, he's not ready nor wanting to be a dad. The talk you had in the car was him telling you he's reconsidering things and he's halfway out.

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

Why did you want him to propose when he's not anywhere near ready to be a husband or even employed?

This man doesn't want a family, and doesn't want to work/ value hard work and having goals in life. You are simply not compatible, and it took you some time to see that. And, that's okay.

You know what to do. I'd suggest calling it off, and focusing on your career and being happy. The right man will come along the way. He isn't the one you thought he is.

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37 minutes ago, moodindigo91 said:

It's just annoying bc I feel like I told him up front and made clear all along what I wanted. So how is it that I'm supposed to find a good man if they all seem to pretend to be something other than what they are! 

That's what YOU wanted. That doesn't mean that's what HE wants.

And "all" men don't pretend to be something they aren't. You just choose these men, possibly because you're attracted to the idea of having the upper hand or whatever. 

I know people whose parents offered to support them forever. Some took advantage; others had their own sense of self worth and chose to make their own way. It's up to you which type you choose to attach yourself to.

BTW, I have an ex whose father has supported him financially his entire life and he's pushing 50. This guy (can't call him a man) is worthless. He smokes pot all day and has nothing and owns nothing. His dad even pays his cell phone bill!  The only thing he has to pay for is food for himself. He gets his food money from a small paycheck his dad gives him for sleeping all day, and he gets extra money by selling pot. Totally useless individual.

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1 minute ago, boltnrun said:

others had their own sense of self worth

Precisely Bolt. 

 

1 minute ago, boltnrun said:

BTW, I have an ex whose father has supported him financially his entire life and he's pushing 50. This guy (can't call him a man) is worthless. He smokes pot all day and has nothing and owns nothing. His dad even pays his cell phone bill!  The only thing he has to pay for is food for himself. He gets his food money from a small paycheck his dad gives him for sleeping all day, and he gets extra money by selling pot. Totally useless individual.

Indeed. We all know one of that sort! .  Makes one wonder about the Dad as well. 

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Just now, LaHermes said:

Precisely Bolt. 

 

Indeed. We all know one of that sort! .  Makes one wonder about the Dad as well. 

The dad thinks he'll go to hell if he doesn't pay for everything. He owns his own business and constantly allows his customers to slash prices, even if it means he won't make any money. He literally said he's afraid he'll go to hell if he doesn't.

One of my friends offered to financially support her adult sons if they moved back in with her and their dad. She wants them with her forever, so she told them they can move back home and don't have to work, go to school or do chores. She just wants them back. She's puzzled as to why one of them said no.

The problem, OP, is that parents don't live forever. If the dad isn't financially well off enough to leave an inheritance large enough to support your boyfriend for the rest of his life he's going to have to get a job eventually. Unless you two agree that you'll work and pay for everything including his travel and living abroad expenses.

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1 hour ago, SooSad33 said:

saying he doesn't feel he's getting enough out of this relationship).

You could be right SS.  Board and lodgings provided by OP aren't enough, evidently.  When the "Bank of Dad" dries up, and it could, then there are lots of elderly millionairesses out there who could take over from Dad. 

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1 hour ago, LaHermes said:

"Smiling at you at a coffee shop. Swirling ice in a drink someone bought them at a bar. Cracking a joke at the dog park. Moochers don’t have to stand at intersections asking for money or hold up a sign telling a hard-luck story. That’s because they’ve mastered the art of living off other people’s generosity.

 

Ha, have a former friend like that. Has a sad story behind(mother and father died day by day from each other), he is on pills and selfmedicates and is mostly unable to work but works some part time jobs from time to time and writes over internet. Mooches for drinks at the bar and everything else every chance he gets. Last time I borrowed him money was few years ago and didnt heard from him since except occasionaly seeing him in town. 

Anyhow, OPs case is like one of my other friends. Does something in life but lives way over his head so relies on parents and even friends when he needs it. Then pays it back, then when he gets some money he spends it then needs to borrow again when he needs it for stuff like bills and repairs around home. I call those cases "very bad with money". For example OPs case doesnt relly on OP to pay him bills and I am sure he would buy her that ring. Its just that he would never save enough for it. And instead of working harder for it and earning it, he rellies on pure luck(which is cryptotrading today, he might as well be gambler) to get that. This one is just irresponsible with money. Hence why he wants to live abroad probably somewhere where small money he earns will be enough for rent and living(like Greece lol). And like that really not a good candidate for financially independant OP who can afford what she wants now and works hard for it. At least when we are talking financially.

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Both of you are polar opposites of the spectrum.  It's best to go your separate ways permanently.  You have a vision for your future.  Your boyfriend is unstable, insecure regarding his future, financially dependent upon his father and eventually you will take on more of his burdens which will eventually become your financial headaches and responsibility.  He is rudderless.  He should be with a woman just like he is and in the same situation while you should be with a man who is a real winner just as you are.  Your boyfriend is a real drag.  Get rid of the dead weight.     

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So did he lie to you about living off his dad -meaning the extent? Sounds like he didn't lie.  Sounds like you simply went the "ignorance is bliss" path because certainly if he had lied you wouldn't have stayed with him, right? So instead you lied to yourself because this is the "best" relationship.  But then later on you wanted to know the truth when the rose colored glasses came off.  But if you truly had all those relationship goals why wait that long?  Something doesn't add up other than you were afraid of being alone, didn't ask too many questions and now that you're done with law school and the bio clock is ticking all of a sudden you're wondering why he's not proposing.  

No not all men are like this.  When my husband was 32 he was living on his own, had a great job he'd worked very hard in grad school to achieve, and was pursuing a related career path in a very determined, logical way.  Without asking for financial help from his parents. 

My father came from a really dysfunctional family and pulled himself up by his bootstraps and went to college and medical school and was in the health care field.  My mom went to college when women weren't supposed to and she worked both inside and outside the home.  My grandpa had a window cleaning business as a new immigrant so he could provide for his family and make sure his kids could go to college. No not all men are like this.

When we dated the first time around we were new grads with grad degrees -me newer than he was -and I never wondered how he was affording his rent, his expenses etc -what you see is what you got and I got a guy with a very strong work ethic and (big surprise) parents with the same strong work ethic  And now our son is 12 and he does too in his 12 year old way.  Which is partly because of the examples he sees at home.  Do you really want a child of yours to grow up thinking he can behave as your boyfriend does?

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6 hours ago, moodindigo91 said:

Anyway, he told me he WAS going to propose to me during our trip to Greece but probably not anymore & that he didn't have any money to buy a ring regardless (LOL). 

We can debate his unemployed status all day long, buuut ^ this is really the only part that matters.

OP, he told you pretty bluntly that he is not on board with your marriage plans anymore. This relationship is pretty much over and will only continue as long as you drag this out and keep him around knowing that marriage is not on the table. Even so, don't be surprised if he up and ends this because he needs to go find himself. He is pretty much warning you about that already.

You are way too stuck in your plan and your tunnel vision of what you want and when. Meanwhile you are actively ignoring a lot of things about the guy including such a blatant warning shot across your bow. Actually, that's more than a warning shot, you are being torpedoed and you still seem to be in denial and stuck on "I can't believe he isn't proposing." I mean....come on....he already told you he won't.....

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6 hours ago, moodindigo91 said:

he told me he WAS going to propose to me during our trip to Greece

I utterly fail to see what the location has to do with proposing.  And you don't tell someone you are GOING to propose to them in xyz location.  You either propose or you don't. 

6 hours ago, moodindigo91 said:

He (although he has no money of his own right now that I am aware of except crypto assets) made an appointment to get a half sleeve in January

He seems not quite right in the head or else is stunted at age 14. What attraction could such a being hold for ANY WOMAN, I ask. 

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Sorry haven't read everything and also it's 3 a.m. so I might not write as much as I usually do. I'm afraid that what you're dealing with here is a "man child". Whether he wants marriage or kids or doesn't (some people don't), that doesn't mean that he can't live the life of an adult. It sounds like in all the time you've been together, your boyfriend has more or less financially been supported by his Dad. Most people in their 30's would feel bad about this. But instead of trying to get an actual job, instead he suggested that the solution is just to move in with one of his parents and save money. So basically he had no intention of actually being ambitious or really doing something with himself.

It's OK to do a start up business but if it's not actually making any money then unfortunately it has to be more like a hobby. He has to be realistic that he actually needs to have another job to actually have money. You seem a lot more mature than him and more ambitious and a future lawyer. I think you can do better.

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