Group Therapy - Opinions welcome

[LC8328]

This happened to me last group, when I was speaking (for literally less than 2 minutes). She said, "Well that reminds me of when I blah blah blah......." and the therapist turned to her, and spent the next 15 minutes on her blah blah blah. I was like, mmmmkay, I guess I'm done here.

 

Not okay!! I draw the line here. I would be livid. I think you handled yourself very well in this situation.

 

If the therapist didn't want to lose you, she should have managed the group better. I'm sure you can find another group.

[Starlight925]

One thought though. You wanting to hear the silent ones may not be what the silent ones want--to be silent and to listen.

 

This is a great point. Here I am, wishing the silent one would speak up, but that's not me being very considerate/aware of her desires, and it's not my place to project what I want (to hear her) vs. what she may want (to be silent). It's her decision whether to talk or be silent, and I need to let her be/do/say what she wants or does not want to.

 

Thank you for pointing this out!

[RainyCoast]

It's true group sessions aren't entirely balanced and it's not unusual for certain members to never, or almost never speak, and they may still benefit from attending.

 

However, if you'd actually like to talk and are never given a chance to, save for the encouragement to wrestle your five minutes outta this lady's big mouth, it's not moderated very elegantly or efficiently.

[Starlight925]

I have been in your situation. I was involved in a cancer support group, where a woman monopolized the convo. The worst thing, her partner no longer had cancer, so we heard a lot about her problems at work, and about her emotionally abusive bf that lived in another state. I wanted to slap her! I felt upset for all of us dealing with a loved one dealing with cancer, but most especially a father, who little time to speak about his dying daughter.

 

It is NOT your responsibility to get into a confrontation with this woman. The woman that is running the group should take control of the situation, and I would tell her so. Be direct. Isn't there a superior you can speak with?

 

Oh my Holly, that is so much worse. Your situation wasn't just an emotional support group, but literally an illness/life support group, and for someone to monopolize with subjects that can and should be left outside the door, or kept to a minimum, is inexcusable.

 

To answer your question, there is no superior to speak with, as this woman practices on her own.

 

But as I said earlier, since I've been involved in other groups, I see how they should be run, i.e. the leader guiding the group so that the discussion works for everyone. This is the first time I've been in a therapy situation like this, and yes, it ticked me off to be told that my distaste for this woman's monopolizing is my issue to deal with, rather than the therapist saying that she'll figure out a way to work on it.

 

The trigger that I felt was telling me I was being triggered, if that makes sense. Like, my own therapist isn't supporting me.

[Starlight925]

It's true group sessions aren't entirely balanced and it's not unusual for certain members to never, or almost never speak, and they may still benefit from attending.

 

However, if you'd actually like to talk and are never given a chance to, save for the encouragement to wrestle your five minutes outta this lady's big mouth, it's not moderated very elegantly or efficiently.

 

Absolutely! In my past groups, there might be one session that's taken up almost entirely by one person who is facing a crisis. To me, that's not only ok, that's what it's about: the group coming together to help this person through their crisis.

 

In this recent meeting, one person needed honestly, the entire time, vis a vis a crisis, but she too only got a few minutes, what with C Cathy interrupting her, and therapist, who was sitting next to C Cathy, turning to her, and telling her she'd like to be more connected to her. For an hour.

[RainyCoast]

I used to attend support groups for a chronic illness. It wasn't therapy, sure, but there were stark differences in how efficiently they were moderated. Some were useless because they were 100% defetism and wallowing, some because they were a place where desperate people shared unprofessional and harmful advice ("drink peroxide six times a day!") with nobody intervening.

 

I left partly because of that, and partly because I always do better if I don't think of myself as a patient/am not reminded of being ill and complications and prognoses.

 

Group sessions need to be *run* by someone. It's not just people talking anything any time, unstructured. Just because there's less professional input in group sessions, it doesn't mean the conversation should never be steered this or that way.

 

You can, for the sake of really having tried, attempt to be more assertive. Consider if the girl in crisis managed to hog those twenty minutes, so can you. But I don't think the reason you're paying is to learn how to fight for speaking time and be assertive. It wouldn't be wrong to attend at some place where your actual concerns can be brought up to a reasonable extent.

 

Have you asked the therapist why she feels that this specifically is where your next lesson lies? Might she be thinking the issues that brought you there had a lot to do with your discomfort with asserting yoursef, speaking up?

 

As for the girl and her safety, it is possible they had a debriefing with the therapist after and addressed the safety issue too or got a social worker/crisis centre on standby.

[Starlight925]

RainyCoast, you're absolutely right about the girl in crisis with respect to her safety: I have no idea what, or if, she and the therapist discussed outside the group, and that part is not my business, so you know what? You just brought up such a valid point, and I thank you for that.

 

I agree that the group needs to be run by someone, and that's what I guess the issue is for me. In other groups, the person in charge keeps us on track. I'm in a Professional Women's group, and there are a lot of chatty women in there, lol, but the leader always keeps us on track. In this particular group, the therapist simply does not do that.

 

I'm actually very assertive, and I do speak up a lot. But not to the point of interruption. Chatty Cathy is one of those who speaks in one long 30-minute sentence, without a breath. She also talks in a very low volume, and you almost have to strain to hear her. So all eyes and ears are on her, and the only questions are from the therapist. So it feels like interrupting a private therapy session.

 

The format is that we start by coming "into" the room, and stating how we are feeling, and to "bookmark" something we want to talk about. I "bookmarked" that I'd like to talk about something. With 12 minutes left to go, the therapist said, "OK LHGirl, you had a bookmark", so I started. I got one sentence out, when C Cathy interrupted with her story that literally had zero to do with mine, and therapist spent the next 10 minutes on her. With literally 2 minutes left, one woman brought up a pretty big issue, and then we were done. There's a huge wall clock on the wall that I can see, so I'm very aware of the time.

[RainyCoast]

Also, in practical terms, apart from holly's advice,

 

I would politely point out i'm paying for my own cause

 

"I'm here to adress a specific concern of my own"

 

And to the big mouth, I may be bolder: "I feel like this is your chance to learn to sit with the discomfort of not being heard and not having a voice" ;)

[Starlight925]

Also, in practical terms, apart from holly's advice,

 

I would politely point out i'm paying for my own cause

 

"I'm here to adress a specific concern of my own"

 

And to the big mouth, I may be bolder:" I feel like this is your chance to earn to sit with the discomfort of not being heard and not having a voice" ;)

 

OMG, that's awesome. I'm deciding right now whether to return in 2 weeks. If I do, I'm stealing this.....k?

[RainyCoast]

Just make sure to not say "deal with" or "process" the discomfort, because then she'll talk about how painful it is for her to not talk for fourty-five minutes. She needs to sit with it and suffer in silence.

 

Turn the tables :)).

[SarahLancaster]

"Hilda, I think you could experience a lot of growth tonight by letting someone else talk."

[j.man]

"Janie, you need to shut the **** up for a few seconds."

[SarahLancaster]

"Hilda, can I get you a nice hot cup of shut the **** up?"

[Billie28]

If Cathy talks 60-70 % of the time, who is talking the other 30-40%??

If the time was split evenly amongst 6, your allocated time would be 16%. Are you getting that?

 

Are the other 4 wanting or trying to speak up?

Are you?

 

You mention you want to hear the other 4 people’s stories?

Are you there to listen, speak up or both?

 

Have you told the therapist that it’s not Cathy you have an issue with but rather the therapist herself?

[ThatwasThen]

I wouldn't be able to tolerate that and I'd have no problem simply saying "Does anyone else have anything to share" which I have done in group therapy before. I got a *if looks could kill" stare from my particular "chatty cathy" but she sat back and listened to a couple of the others. The therapist didn't say a thing about my question asking if anyone else had anything to share. Mind you, I was going through menopause and believe me, I wasn't shy about being "assertive" in the least prior to that time of life and certainly not during it. Having a hard time during menopause and being unable to take hormone replacement therapy is what got me in group therapy to begin with.

 

I agree your therapist isn't very good at group. She seems unable to navigate the group in a productive way for all involved. I'd be out of there.

[Starlight925]

OMG, I'm laughing hysterically at all the "Hilda" comments!

 

As for who is talking the other 30%, our last session went like this (90 minutes total):

 

Hilda- 40 minutes

Girl with abusive ex - 5 minutes

Hilda, with her abusive ex story from 20 years ago - 20 minutes

Me - 2 minutes

Hilda, about how my story relates to something else from 15 years ago - 13 minutes

Carol (not her real name) who has another serious issue - 5 minutes

Hilda, on how Carol's story reminds her of something completely else entirely from 10 years ago - 5 minutes

Kelly - never said a word, not even "Hi, I'm Kelly".

Oops....clock ran out, session over.

 

Hilda: 78 minutes. Rest of the group: 12 minutes total.

 

This is not an exaggeration. The only other talking was therapist, to Hilda.

[Starlight925]

Have you told the therapist that it’s not Cathy you have an issue with but rather the therapist herself?

 

Great question, and honestly, Billie, I wished I had said this; if I'm being completely open, I was more hurt by her assertion that I was upset because Hilda triggered me, so I came from a place of defensiveness, rather than asking her to guide the group to more sharing.

 

The thing is, I don't need 16% of the time, or a certain amount of minutes, but yes, I do want to hear from others, and I do realize that in group, sometimes one person will spend more than half the group's time on their issue. That's cool, I've been in groups before, and I love to listen, because I learn so much from others. And yeah, sometimes it's my turn to take the lion's share of the time.

 

This particular time in my life, I actually don't need much talking time. I just want more time, period, plus I want to hear from others, because I learn from everyone. Each person's issues are unique, and just as important, and I feel that I can relate in different ways, which is why I'm in group.

 

Truth is, I enjoyed hearing from Hilda at first, because she's around my age, similar past issues, etc., so I was like, cool, she's talking a lot, and I'm learning. But it's 4 sessions in now, and she's taken 60-70% of the time, each session.

 

But you make a great point, inasmuch as that no, if I'm being honest with you, I did not tell the therapist that it's her I have the problem with. Should I? Any suggestions on how to word it?

[Jibralta]

I did group therapy (and individual therapy) for years as a kid. I think it’s important for you to feel comfortable in the group in order to get the most out of it. Part of the therapist’s job is to keep things running on an even keel so that everyone takes something away from the experience.

 

I think it’s odd that instead of listening to your complaint in a nonjudgmental way, she chose to deflect the issue back onto you. I’ve never had a therapist try to cut me down like that. Well, maybe there was one time, but I never scheduled another appointment with that lady.

 

Point is, I know those kinds of therapists are out there, but it’s not necessary to work with someone like that.

 

You know, being a therapist doesn’t automatically make a person right or perfect. It doesn’t mean she automatically knows more about you than you know about yourself.

 

You have a say, too. It’s ok for you to disagree with her and stop going. You are trying to help yourself. You need a therapist who you can work with, who supports you. You will have the best results in an environment where you feel respected.

[Starlight925]

I think it’s odd that instead of listening to your complaint in a nonjudgmental way, she chose to deflect the issue back onto you. I’ve never had a therapist try to cut me down like that. Well, maybe there was one time, but I never scheduled another appointment with that lady.

 

You know, that's exactly it. I was so taken aback by this, as I've never had a therapist turn something back on me like this.

 

Being listened to, heard, and validated is most definitely an issue I've had since childhood, and I've been in many therapy situations where I've worked on this. Never, not once, did a therapist turn it on me like this. In fact, the irony of it is, I was wanting to be heard and listened to by the therapist, but in fact, she "triggered" me by not hearing me, rather than me being "triggered" by Hilda.

 

I was in a group therapy intensive last weekend. Entire day Saturday and half the day Sunday. The therapist, who I had never met (I traveled for this), started off by going around the room, letting each person talk, and then she had an outline for the weekend that she went by, but she continued to go around the group the entire weekend. If I had to guess, each one of us had almost the exact same time to talk, share, and listen. It was awesome. She just kept at a pace that was so comfortable, so meaningful, yet intense, and it spoiled me.

 

Because there were multiple people in the group, each person spoke for approx. 20% of the time total, so the other 80% was listening, which was great, because it was just a very equal, copacetic situation, and the stuff the therapist was saying to each person as they shared was so awesome, my hand almost fell off from all the notes I took.

 

So when I came back to this session with Hilda, is when it hit me, that this group is not run like that one was.

[Hollyj]

Oh my Holly, that is so much worse. Your situation wasn't just an emotional support group, but literally an illness/life support group, and for someone to monopolize with subjects that can and should be left outside the door, or kept to a minimum, is inexcusable.

 

To answer your question, there is no superior to speak with, as this woman practices on her own.

 

But as I said earlier, since I've been involved in other groups, I see how they should be run, i.e. the leader guiding the group so that the discussion works for everyone. This is the first time I've been in a therapy situation like this, and yes, it ticked me off to be told that my distaste for this woman's monopolizing is my issue to deal with, rather than the therapist saying that she'll figure out a way to work on it.

 

The trigger that I felt was telling me I was being triggered, if that makes sense. Like, my own therapist isn't supporting me.

 

Both of these women are emotional vampires.

 

The therapist id doing a great disservice to the group. Please find someone else who provides a better structure.

 

Good luck and good weekend!

[abitbroken]

I have never been in group therapy but have been in support groups ---

The group leader would set a timer -- a little sand in the hourglass thing and the person that had just gone would set a timer for the next person and "knock" on the table quietly when the person was maybe 20-30 seconds from being time up - it was their warning to wrap things up. Someone could go over by a sentence or two, but they were not allowed to launch into a whole new story. Everyone was heard and respected. It helped that we were all together for the same issue -- there were a few different tables with overlapping issues and sometimes one person would sit at a different table for a few weesks. All in all it was successful because people were not dwelling - they weren't becoming support group addicts and they eventually moved on.

 

I think allowing someone to monopolize a group defeats the purpose of their being a group. If the group takes turns giving someone a longer share on different weeks - maybe giving someone even a little assignment or a task to talk about something specific - that's different

[Hollyj]

"Janie, you need to shut the **** up for a few seconds."

 

Go with this one!

[SarahLancaster]

But you make a great point, inasmuch as that no, if I'm being honest with you, I did not tell the therapist that it's her I have the problem with. Should I? Any suggestions on how to word it?

 

"Margaret, to be honest, I'm disappointed that you allow Hilda to monopolize the therapy sessions to the exclusion of the rest of us."

[Starlight925]

But you make a great point, inasmuch as that no, if I'm being honest with you, I did not tell the therapist that it's her I have the problem with. Should I? Any suggestions on how to word it?

 

"Margaret, to be honest, I'm disappointed that you allow Hilda to monopolize the therapy sessions to the exclusion of the rest of us."

 

Wow....perfect.

 

If I decide to go back, I'm going to say that. I might email it to her, as she's emailed me a few times letting me know that my "commitment" to the group was 6 sessions, and I've only made 4. I wonder how she'd respond.

[RainyCoast]

What commitment?? What is she on about?? You're a paying client, you can leave when you're tired of paying for subpar service, this ain't court ordered anger management for chrits's sake. You're not obligated to attend, she sounded like she's saying it's not optional.

 

I don't like that she's "reminding" you of inexistent duties. It sounds frustrated and punitive. I almost expected you to say she reminded you of "consequences" of not attending the six sessions because the tone and wording of her sentence sounded like "or else" would naturally follow in the syntax.

 

What is her deal??