Did My Mom Commit Suicide?

[Seraphim]

I am so sorry Katrina. I don’t know how you feel. But I am so sorry. ❤️

[Wiseman2]

Cessation of any form of life support is not suicide. The death certificate of course indicates that. Sorry your brother told you this outrageous hurtful lie. Try to distance yourself from him if he is trying to create hurt and drama through lies like this.

she told the doctors to disconnect her feeding tube

[katrina1980]

Wow guys. I just had a chance to read all your responses and gotta say I'm a bit overwhelmed!

 

You've helped me put things in perspective and I'm starting to feel more at peace with it, thank you!

 

@Wiseman, I adore you man but not sure where your post came from.

 

I'm gonna presume you wrote it before you read the below on page 2.

 

 

@abitbroken, I don't believe my brother meant to be insensitive or stir controversy.

 

HE is struggling with cancer himself right now; I created a thread about it awhile back. He's doing okay!

 

And he honestly thought I already knew.

 

 

I love my brother dearly, and there is no way I could ever distance myself from him; that is exactly what I am struggling with now -- how I abandoned my mom at a time she dearly needed me.

 

Anyway, to clarify cause I don't want anyone thinking poorly of my brother, he did not lie. He is struggling with cancer himself right now, and while doing okay, knock wood, we were discussing last days and he told me that he would make the same decision as our mom (and apparently many people) if it ever came to that.

 

I asked him what he was talking about and he replied "refusing the feeding tube and stop eating." Which is essentially starvation but that was my take.

 

Anyway, he thought I already knew, that our dad had told me, but my dad did not!

 

My head has been spinning since hearing this and I was wondering if my mom's decision was a form of suicide. My brother never said it was suicide.

 

I discussed with my bf and a close friend, they said no, but I wanted to elicit the opinions of others who could be more objective. I hope that clarifies.

 

Anyway, thank you all again, and again and again!!

 

You guys the best! xx

[Gem514]

However we view it does not mean we are correct. But I think the most important thing in life is to think for yourself and form your own opinions. And this is a hard to answer question, so we can’t tell you.

Please just know that even though I don’t know you, you matter to me, and so does your feelings and wellbeing. Love ya

[Wiseman2]

Everyone has the right to die with dignity and that includes cessation of any form of life support in a terminal illness. This includes advanced directives (google it). This is a passive act not a suicide. Why not research this rather than be upset over a misinterpretation of various end of life rights and documents. It would be a shame to live with all sorts of guilt/anguish over this basic misinformation.

[reinventmyself]

I know exactly what you are experiencing seeing my mother passed away 3 months ago.

 

8 years ago she had an unrelated surgery where during testing it was discovered that she had a small spot on her lung. I tried talking to her many times about it and she was evasive and sometimes annoyed. `It's being watched' was the most I got from her.

 

When I moved her closer to me after my fathers death, I had her seeing my doctor. He happens to be one of the best in the area and I have the upmost faith and trust in him. I had some comfort, despite her stubbornness that she was under the best care.

 

A couple years ago, after her annual physical I thought to ask her if she still did pap smears or when the last time of her mammogram was. She smirked and said she didn't think it necessary and after all they found something (cancer) she would deny any treatment anyway. She was very cavalier about it.

 

I would get frustrated and once I told her if they were to catch something early it would be far less inconvenient than dying of cancer to begin with. Not to mention, it hurts a whole lot less.

 

Suffice to say, her health became a battle or wills. Hers and mine.

 

Ultimately my mom had lung cancer and after being admitted with back pain, passed away 5 weeks later, a couple days before last Thanksgiving.. In the end she was afraid and regretful and all along she knew more then she ever let on, to me. She admitted to me that prior to her arrival at the hospital she had written the Dr a two page letter, somewhat apologizing for not choosing not to listen to his warnings and advise. On what exactly, I do not know. It wasn't the time to ask.

 

After she was admitted, I go to her home and she has a folder of notes of things to do that she wrote out days before she went in. So what exactly did she know? I don't know. But what I do know is she actively chose to ignore it.

 

This Dr had called me 3 times since my mothers passing to talk. I had so many questions, but it was still too raw and I don't think I really want to know the answers to the questions. It doesn't change the outcome.

 

So, yes. I have those moments where I felt like my mom took her life. It is another layer of grief on top having already lost her to begin with.

 

It's hard not to take it personally sometimes.

Why didn't she want to stay with us?

Could we have done something differently so her quality of life was such that she would have wanted to stay?

I had one of those small child moments while grieving wanting to know my mom made this choice and wanted to leave me.

(getting upset just writing this)

 

So I totally understand the feelings you are having. It can be kind of complex.

(((Hugs))) Katrina

[reinventmyself]

Cessation of any form of life support is not suicide. The death certificate of course indicates that. Sorry your brother told you this outrageous hurtful lie. Try to distance yourself from him if he is trying to create hurt and drama through lies like this.

 

Technically or legally of course.

But emotionally, it feels different.

That's how her brother viewed it and I don't think it makes him a malicious person for sharing it.

I shared the same with my brother in a very similar situation.

 

If anything could be done differently, maybe he could have shared how he felt sooner, rather than now.

[Batya33]

I'm so sorry for your loss and the shock of this news. I also do not think it was suicide.

 

5 years ago my mother in law was kept alive for months on a feeding tube and many others -also cancer and other complications. She was not conscious enough to make the choice -my husband and father in law made the choice. i sat by her bedside for many hours, usually once a week so my husband and FIL and son could go out and get a break/time away. She sometimes seemed to be in pain. It wasn't my decision to make or my input to give. One time my mother came with me and said to me that she does not ever ever want to be in that situation - being kept alive in a comatose state on tubes. She made that very very clear to me. (My mother is 5 years younger than my MIL and is alive, she's in her 80s). I don't think my MIL would have chosen to exist that way but again it wasn't my call or decision.

[catfeeder]

My heart goes out to you, Katrina. I can appreciate the shock of learning details you didn't know about your Mom's decision, and I would not consider it suicide. When the digestive tract shuts down, intake can result in painful rejection, which your Mom was considered cognizant enough to be allowed to avoid. She was likely kept hydrated through an IV, and her level of pain was likely gradually reduced through an increase of drugs pushed through that method.

 

You Mom chose the most dignified way to liberate herself, and it's my belief that she's likely with you now in ways that were not possible while she inhabited her body. I hope you will embrace comfort in expressing your love for her directly to her, and in doing so, you will also embrace peace.

 

(((HUG))),

Cat

[katrina1980]

Technically or legally of course.

But emotionally, it feels different.

That's how her brother viewed it and I don't think it makes him a malicious person for sharing it.

I shared the same with my brother in a very similar situation.

 

If anything could be done differently, maybe he could have shared how he felt sooner, rather than now.

 

Thank you reinvent, I was going to respond to Wiseman myself, but decided against it.

 

Only to say, my brother did not share earlier because he thought I already knew. That my dad had told me, but he did not.

 

Since my brother has cancer himself now, a few days ago we were discussing his last days and he said IF it ever came to that, he would choose the same path as my mom.

 

I did not know what he was talking about obviously which is when he shared with me what he did about my mom. He never said it was suicide!

 

My brother is and always has been a wonderful brother, and would never ever say or do anything to hurt me.

 

I support my mom's decision, and thanks to most poster's thoughtful and compassionate responses, and sharing their own stories, I am no longer wondering if it was a form of suicide.

 

I've done research and understand better now..

 

Thanks again everyone!! xx

[reinventmyself]

I'm sorry Katrina. Hold your loved ones close and hang in there.

[Wiseman2]

It's sad when people put themselves through unnecessary misery, anguish and doubt because something "feels like..." when the facts and what actually is the truth is much less painful. Inventing a mode of death from a logical true one (natural/died of terminal cancer) to a fictitious, dramatic, mysterious painful one makes no sense.

 

The truth is suicide is an unnatural death which actively intentionally and deliberately interrupts life. It is not an advanced directive to discontinue all artificial life support. This is not an assisted suicide or any form of suicide. Why can't people simply obtain copies of death certificates? No doctor can legally certify a death with a false cause and mode of death. Why stir up so much unnecessary pain and drama from misinformation and misinterpretation, makes no sense?

Technically or legally of course.

But emotionally, it feels different.

That's how her brother viewed it

[abitbroken]

Okay -- if mom was still consuming non solid foods -- shakes, etc, its merely a conclusion you are making in your mind that "the lack of feeding tube caused her death". She was still receiving nutrition.

 

I know that in your mind you may want to "blame" someone or something for your mom's death - but really - she had late stage cancer. No longer being able to eat is part of the death process. If she could no longer eat solid foods - it was just a symptom and not the cause of her final demise

 

I think this may fall under doctor assisted suicide, but I don’t think it falls under true suicide.

 

If you put down a dog who was in great pain would you consider it murder of an animal?

 

I don’t, even though it may technically be. Agreed with the other posters - she made a choice to not delay the inevitable and not extend her suffering g.

 

No its not!

The doctor did not inject her with anything to kill her.

The OP reported that mom was still eating shakes and non-solids. Eating solids hurt.

The doctor did not cause her demise - cancer did.

People can live for years on a no-solid diet - there are some people where all they have are soups etc and they live a whole lifetime.

[abitbroken]

It's sad when people put themselves through unnecessary misery, anguish and doubt because something "feels like..." when the facts and what actually is the truth is much less painful. Inventing a mode of death from a logical true one (natural/died of terminal cancer) to a fictitious, dramatic, mysterious painful one makes no sense.

 

The truth is suicide is an unnatural death which actively intentionally and deliberately interrupts life. It is not an advanced directive to discontinue all artificial life support. This is not an assisted suicide or any form of suicide. Why can't people simply obtain copies of death certificates? No doctor can legally certify a death with a false cause and mode of death. Why stir up so much unnecessary pain and drama from misinformation and misinterpretation, makes no sense?

 

I AGREE.

 

The thing is, the OP was THERE bringing her shakes. She wasn't estranged.

 

And I disagree that the brother was not trying to stir something up to make the OP feel guilty, to hold something over her head.

OR he could have been matter of fact "i remember at the end when eating hurt and she had enough of the feeding tube...she knew her body was collapsing..." and the OP twisted it.

[katrina1980]

@abit -- thanks, I understand all that now.

 

Learning about this after all this time was just a shock that's all, brought to the surface all sorts of uncomfortable emotions stemming from way back, way before my mom's diagnosis even.

 

To clarify, my brother never said or even suggested it was suicide, nor did he or anyone "invent" anything.

 

The fact of the matter is my mom had terminal cancer, only months to live, was in a tremendous amount of pain, could not keep solid food down, and had no desire to have her life prolonged by artificial means such as a feeding tube.

 

I understand now.

 

I also started this thread for support and I thank those who chose to provide that while I work through these emotions.

 

I only learned this in recent years, but opening up, sharing feelings and asking for support does not mean we're weak or needy, it means we're human.

 

And I also learned how much it helps, just having people, even strangers on a message board, open to listening, understanding, empathizing.

 

Although after being here so many years now, I no longer consider many of you strangers anymore. More like distant friends. :)

 

I am now going my focus my attention on my dear brother, who needs me now.

 

Thanks again guys for helping me work through this!

[katrina1980]

abit, I never said my mom and I were estranged.

 

May I ask where got that?

 

Yes I did visit her, rarely, and brought shakes and ice cream.

 

But there was a distance, an emotional distance, I was not "there" for her, not enough as I should have been, and I will have to live with that for the rest of my life.

 

And not be snarky, but I really resent the implication that my brother was trying to "stir" something or cause guilt.

 

You were not there during this convo, and I assure he did no such thing. Nor again, did he "invent" anything as another poster suggested.

 

Any negative thoughts spinning in my brain were of my own making.

 

But as I said, now that I've had a chance to absorb this info, and doing some research, I understand better now.

 

Hope that clarifies.

[Wiseman2]

Why did he invent this story?:

A few days ago, my brother told me that my mom's death was not actually due to cancer.

[katrina1980]

Why did he invent this story?:

 

He did not invent anything, that was my spin, pls read my last two posts. Nos. 40 and 41.

 

Wiseman, are you upset with me about something?

 

I don't understand all your posts focusing on just this, I sense a certain hostility and don't know where it's comimg from.

[Wiseman2]

It seems cruel for anyone to put a spin like this on it, and you stated he was the one who did. Not sure why you two even had this conversation. Seems like unnecessary drama, no?

He did not invent anything, that was my spin, pls read my last two posts.

[katrina1980]

I posted this in a previous post, and the same thing in a subsequent post, perhaps you missed it Wiseman.

 

"Anyway, to clarify cause I don't want anyone thinking poorly of my brother, he did not lie. He is struggling with cancer himself right now, and while doing okay, knock wood, we were discussing last days and he told me that he would make the same decision as our mom (and apparently many people) if it ever came to that. . I asked him what he was talking about which is when he explained what happened."

 

No the convo was not necessary, he simply told he would choose the same path as our mom, which he assumed I already knew.

 

This has all be stated in my previous posts.

[katrina1980]

Wiseman, I'm truly sorry you feel that my posting here was somehow "stirring drama."

 

That was not my intention, just struggling with some sensitive emotions.

 

I'm gonna step away from this thread now and thanks again to everyone for helping me sort all this out.

[abitbroken]

abit, I never said my mom and I were estranged.

 

May I ask where got that?

 

Yes I did visit her, rarely, and brought shakes and ice cream.

 

But there was a distance, an emotional distance, I was not "there" for her, not enough as I should have been, and I will have to live with that for the rest of my life.

 

And not be snarky, but I really resent the implication that my brother was trying to "stir" something or cause guilt.

 

You were not there during this convo, and I assure he did no such thing. Nor again, did he "invent" anything as another poster suggested.

 

Any negative thoughts spinning in my brain were of my own making.

 

But as I said, now that I've had a chance to absorb this info, and doing some research, I understand better now.

 

Hope that clarifies.

 

I said you were *not* estranged. Its not like this brother is revealing this because you were not there when she was in her decline.

Its not like he has a reason to "bring you up to speed" about her last days because you were there as well.

[SherrySher]

Got your message, Kat. I am so sorry. All I can tell you is, don't stay away for too long. I know you're dealing with a lot of emotions right now but you've got loads of support here.

Rest up, clear your head and come back when you're feeling better. xx

[katrina1980]

Got your message, Kat. I am so sorry. All I can tell you is, don't stay away for too long. I know you're dealing with a lot of emotions right now but you've got loads of support here.

Rest up, clear your head and come back when you're feeling better. xx

 

Thank you Sherry!

 

I wanted to return to say that, but tbh I think this thread has run its course. xx

[abitbroken]

In response to your message, i am not saying you were there at the exact moment of death - but you were in the mix. You were not estranged or visiting another country.