Boundaries / controlling - what’s accepting with opposite sex friends

[Lucysm]

He says I need to just trust him. That it’s just a friendship. I think his only boundary is for nothing physical to happen with others when you are in a relationship. I worry about emotional affairs and how to safeguard against this. But all I can do is trust he wouldn’t enter into one. But I feel so uneasy and I guess that’s my issue.

[Batya33]

My friend and I had this discussion recently. Her husband is on the board of a religious organization -volunteer -he has a job otherwise. Organization got a new president, a woman. She wanted to meet with him given his role on the board. I believe my friend was invited but really it was a business lunch. She didn't want her husband to go to lunch alone with this woman because to her volunteer work is not a business lunch. Personally, I disagreed -he's a board member and who cares if it's a paid position. She's old fashioned and believes that unless it's a true business lunch no going out with a member of the opposite sex without your spouse there.

 

I would probably not be ok about regular personal walks/lunches like what the OP describes. It would just be too much, too often, etc. Not because she is single, because it starts to appear inappropriate.

 

When my son was a baby I'd power walk with him in the stroller on the local park's jogging track. There was an older man who walked too at the same time. One day we started chatting -it made the time pass - and most of our conversation was about our families and spouses (yes he was married, yes seemed happily married). We had 2-3 of these conversations total. And.... even though it was 100% platonic and nothing at all inappropriate I felt odd about it -I welcomed the adult interaction as a stay at home mom at the time. It was my first time in my new city meeting a new man and chatting with him in that kind of situation. My mother said (and she adores my husband) "why can't you have friends and conversations with people?" But yes when it's your first time facing a situation as a married person it can be tricky to know what's appropriate . Turned out I rarely saw him after that so it was a non issue. No, I did not tell my husband about this man - I decided that he would be totally fine with it and it was a non-issue and silly to mention unless there was a separate reason, like he'd recommended a good restaurant or something.

 

So my advice- get clear with yourself on what your boundaries are so when you talk to your SO it comes across well thought out and non confrontational -and first explore why you feel that way and if you would be ok with the same boundaries.

[Enn]

This is really striking a chord with me, cos I'm not a jealous person, but I've repeatedly been out with awful men who always did this sort of thing. Sorry, did I really say 'this sort of thing?' I meant...going on endless 'dates' with every woman they knew, going on holiday on several occasions (while NO holidays were planned with me) with women they'd previously admitted to having a crush on, and sharing a bed with a female friend because 'It wasn't like that...' (Haha this is three different men! I really do know how to pick 'em!) I'm still not even convinced those men were cheating on me...but what I DO know is that I felt (well, I was!) emotionally betrayed. When we had troubles in our relationships they were confiding in these marvellous people...who quite often knew what was happening in my relationship before I did. And I wouldn't dare say anything because applying reasonable boundaries is SO immature isn't it? (Hiss! I'm so tired of pretending I'm OK with all this crap and so relieved to be out of that!) ...we shouldn't even NEED to explain and you know what...if you don't feel OK with it, it's NOT OK! And he needs to know that. Stick to your guns, missus, and if you need strength then we are here to help you!

[bluecastle]

Not going to go into a riff here, but general answer: no, zero problem with this.

 

Walk, talk, eat with attractive single dude. Do the same with unattractive dude.

 

I trust you, think you're great, imagine the dudes feel the same, as they should.

 

Yet it's me you're with, not them.

 

How lucky am I? How lucky are you? How lucky are we?

 

End scene.

[SherrySher]

Thatwasthen put into words what I was thinking. I agree with so much that you said. You have a great way of explaining things, especially in this particular situation.

[Capricorn3]

How would people feel about their partner going on walks and lunches with an attractive single co-worker twice a week?

I just don't know why this has to be a regular event, every week. No problem having a lunch with a colleague every once in a while .... but does he have to go for walks and lunches, twice a week, every week?

[Wiseman2]

He's right. If he wanted to cheat he could do so with women who you deem as "fat and ugly' or married women or whoever from wherever. You need to get a grip on your vanity and insecurity. You are much more likely to lose him to your jealousy than to another women. If having lunch with coworkers is a problem for you, you have a long road ahead with a therapist to get your self esteem under control.

He says I need to just trust him. That it’s just a friendship. I feel so uneasy and I guess that’s my issue.

[Annia]

To me it'd depend on the frequency of these lunches and walks, and context. If it's lunches at work and walking once in a while it wouldn't bother me, but if these lunches and walks were extra work, always just the two of them and me not being included once in a while or introduced to this person, I wouldn't feel comfortable. It could mean nothing and not have anything to do with cheating, but I guess I wouldn't feel much comfortable and this is regardless if the woman is attractive or not.

 

I also don't believe in ultimatums nor think that the way is getting accusing and demanding or saying he can't meet this or that person. In my case I think I'd tell the boyfriend that I don't feel comfortable with so much extra work interaction between the two and would even ask to meet her or hang out with them once in a while(not as a control mechanism though). I think a person has a right to their personal life and friendships outside the relationship regardless of the gender, but if interactions are completely innocent and for the sake of friendship, then no boyfriend would see a problem in inviting the girlfriend to these hang outs once in a while and presenting her to his friend.

 

Also it would be two different situations if he confessed she has a crush on him or if I knew the woman had a crush on him. If it was the case that she had a crush, then I'd find it not appropriate. Not because I'd automatically think he's cheating, but more because he's feeding a woman's feelings by giving her one on one attention just to stroke his ego instead of distancing from that person, not give them hopes and not feed the crush and let it die with time apart. A person in a committed relationship shouldn't be feeding crushes and giving hopes to people who have romantic interest in them, period.

 

But the bottom line is that what matters is what you're ok with. I'd express discomfort if I felt uncomfortable in a calm way and see his actions from there. If he agrees with me and stops doing it fine. If he doesn't agree and keeps doing it, I have to decide if we're compatible or not. It doesn't necessarily mean one is wrong and the other right.

[Batya33]

I disagree that it's all about "but you are who I am with" -in a committed relationship we also have the responsibility not to play with fire or give the appearance of impropriety. Not an exact science but factors into what is acceptable. So when years ago a male supervisor invited me to watch a movie in his hotel room I knew 100% he meant absolutely nothing by it -and not because I am "naive". And I also knew it was inappropriate in general even if nothing inappropriate happened. So without explanation I said no and he was totally fine with it (because I truly think he was just trying to be hospitable and had a much larger room than I did, we'd just finished a huge project on our business trip). I'm not even sure I was in a committed relationship at the time.

 

A few years ago my husband didn't want to pay for another night at an expensive hotel so he was going to ask colleagues if he could shower in one of their rooms while they were NOT in the room at all. I suggested to him that if the colleague he was going to ask was a female (not someone in his company but part of the business trip) it should be only if he knew her very very well so she didn't feel awkward (ended up she actually didn't go on the trip anyway).

 

So, no it's not about "see I'm with you" to justify doing date-like things with someone of the opposite sex.

[katrina1980]

I 100% agree with j.man.

 

And apologies to TwT, I usually agree with your POV but have to disagree here that for certain it means they are having an "emotional affair."

 

They are co-workers. I have often taken walks during breaks and had lunch with male co-workers, sometimes with a group, but more often one-on-one.

 

I had no romantic interst in them whatsoever, nor did they, one in particular with whom I became quite close (as a work friend) was in a RL and now married. As was I but not married.

 

I cannot even imagine responding to his, "hey Kat, taking a break, going for a walk, feel like joining me?" with "no sorry, I have a bf and it wouldn't be appropriate."

 

Or even a quick lunch during our lunch break.

 

Like what? We are co-workers!

 

What kind of RL is that wherein you are not allowed to take a walk or quick lunch with a co-worker? No matter what gender they are, or how attractive.

 

Or it's okay as long as they are the same gender as you. Opposite sex off limits.

 

A very oppressive one if you ask me, no thank you!

 

Now I do realize this may be how some affairs start, but it's certainly not a given by any stretch.

 

In fact I personally think it's more likely than not that nothing untoward is going on, especially since I presume HE was the one to tell you?

 

If something was going on, I highly doubt he would have alerted you to it.

 

That is not how cheaters operate.

 

Bottom line -- do you trust him? Trust that he respects you and your relationship?

 

That is the question you should be asking yourself.

 

JMO.

[ThatwasThen]

He's right. If he wanted to cheat he could do so with women who you deem as "fat and ugly' or married women or whoever from wherever. You need to get a grip on your vanity and insecurity. You are much more likely to lose him to your jealousy than to another women. If having lunch with coworkers is a problem for you, you have a long road ahead with a therapist to get your self esteem under control.

 

Op's boyfriend is bonding past a platonic dynamic if the two of them insist on being alone together for intimate walks one on one and having lunch one on one this often... (two times a week, every week). Op is not being overly jealous but is worried about how their interaction together appears and may very well develop into. If she loses him over anything to do with this it won't be due to her insecurity or jealousy it will be because of his need to have a almost single person dynamic with this woman.

 

@ Katrina: I didn't say "for sure" they are having an emotional affair, I said, they are on a slippery slope to developing one. If anything, they are crossing platonic relationship boundaries by having one on one lunches and walks as a lifestyle. I'm sure he doesn't spend that much time with his male friends nor would he if he had the opportunity.

 

... no need to apologize for a differing opinion. :) but its not like this:

What kind of RL is that wherein you are not allowed to take a walk or quick lunch with a co-worker?

They are having one on one walks and one on one lunches two times a week. That's more than a quick lunch or walk to the venue where they eat.

 

That is not how cheaters operate.

No its not but what they are doing together and the frequency in which they are doing it is what very, very often leads to emotional affair bonding which an emotional affair is. As we all know, many emotional affairs lead to physical ones when the two parties involved never ever had an intention of such a thing happening.

[katrina1980]

To the OP, what was the context within which he told you this?

 

Or did HE even tell you? How did you find out, did someone else tell you?

 

In my case, our interaction was so insignificant, there was no need to even mention, again he was a co-worker who happened to be a guy, and we were work friends only.

 

So how did this come up?

 

I do know while dating my first (or was it second) bf, I developed a crush on a male co-worker, and would talk about him all the time, even to my bf!

 

But I was very immature back then, didn't understand much about anything.

 

Does your bf talk about this woman a lot to you?

 

Over and above the walks and lunches?

 

TwT not ruling what you just posted out, it's certainly possible, but need more context per my above questions. :)

[ThatwasThen]

Good questions, Kat. I'd like to know the answers to them as well. I think it was Bolt that asked similar many posts ago but Op has not returned to her very active thread ;)

[katrina1980]

Lucy, have you asked him to stop having lunch with this coworker?

 

How do you even know about these lunches? Does he tell you "I went to lunch/went for a break time walk with Coworker X"?

 

Missed this earlier ^^ sorry Bolt!

 

Oops there I go apologizing again!!!

 

I still can't imagine asking my bf to stop taking walks or having lunch with a co-worker just cause she happens to be an attractive woman (and *I* feel threatened by that which clearly you do OP).

 

On its face it seems very controlling and oppressive, and wreaks distrust and insecurity, but again I need more context.

 

Twice a week doesn't seem like that big a deal to me, if she's simply a work buddy, someone to pass time with, shoot the sh** with during an otherwise stressful work day.

 

But I'm basing this on my own personal experience. I know emotional affairs can develop from this too, I'm not that naive. Lol

 

Lucy, can you return and answer our questions, or have you resolved within yourself since yesterday?

 

I hope you weren't stalking him, cause that would be very bad! Which is perhaps why you don't wish to answer?

 

Like how do you know she is very attractive? I can't imagine your bf telling you that.

 

Not accusing, just asking. :)

[greendots]

I agree with Batya and others who have stated that anyone could cheat with anyone.

 

As for whether I'd be accepting of a partner hanging out with the opposite sex, well: Honestly, you don't ditch old friends / colleagues simply because you're now in a relationship. Sure, you may no longer sleep on the couch at your mates place. At least, I wouldn't out of respect.

Having said that, meeting weekly on Friday's for a quick bite is one thing. Having one on one walks and one on one lunches two times per week is, honestly, quite the slippery slope.

 

Questions: How long have they known each other? Have you met her? Does she know of you?

[Batya33]

I guess it depends on his work environment but twice a week seems like a lot. I have lunch with my female coworker about every 6 weeks and if we tried to coordinate more often it would be doable but challenging. And it is personal. We walk to lunch and cover a lot of ground in this hour plus figuratively and literally. I’d need to know more about his schedule and how it is that they have the time to do walks and lunch during the work day. My sense is there’s strong interest in there and that is why they’re making this time.

[katrina1980]

I used to work in a very small law firm, and my female co worker and I took walks every day and ate lunch together most days.

 

Casual, down the street for a quick salad or pizza or sometimes we would bring it back to office and ate in conference room.

 

We need more context. Including how did Lucy find out this co-worker is very attractive? If they're just work friends, her attractiveness is a non-issue.

 

Does not seem like something her bf would mention unless he's intentionally trying to cause drama or insecurity.

 

I think there is more to this story beyond her bf having lunch with a female co-worker, but OP has left the building so I guess we shall never know.

[Lucysm]

Sorry for delay. I didn’t want to say how I found out as I felt that would cloud the issue as I found out by accident - he never even told me this co-worker existed. She was new and they first met in November and it had been happening since then. I found out as I noticed him searching for her a lot online so I eventually asked him who she was. However, even if he had been upfront with me I wouldn’t have liked the situation and he claims that is the reason why he never told me. That’s why I made this post. I want to move past this and due to the lying I have asked him to no longer see/speak to each other. But I want to be OK about these type of things in the future so he feels he can be honest with me. Trouble is I think the way he sees it is that as long as nothing physical happens, he isn’t cheating. I don’t think he understands the concept of an emotional affair.

[Wiseman2]

They work together. When you act like a prison guard no one is going to feel good about being open with you.

 

He will eventually break up, but not because of her, "emotional affair", etc, but because of your insecurities and controlling jealous behavior.

I have asked him to no longer see/speak to each other. But I want to be OK about these type of things in the future so he feels he can be honest with me.

[Batya33]

Sorry for delay. I didn’t want to say how I found out as I felt that would cloud the issue as I found out by accident - he never even told me this co-worker existed. She was new and they first met in November and it had been happening since then. I found out as I noticed him searching for her a lot online so I eventually asked him who she was. However, even if he had been upfront with me I wouldn’t have liked the situation and he claims that is the reason why he never told me. That’s why I made this post. I want to move past this and due to the lying I have asked him to no longer see/speak to each other. But I want to be OK about these type of things in the future so he feels he can be honest with me. Trouble is I think the way he sees it is that as long as nothing physical happens, he isn’t cheating. I don’t think he understands the concept of an emotional affair.

 

I think if he is hanging with her that often - and that is the reason I write this -it is very odd that he didn't share that with you .I don't question my husband and we naturally share with each other stuff we do when we're not together whether with platonic friends of the same or opposite sex -it's fun to check in with each other and share what you've done/who you've seen that day.

[greendots]

We need more context.

 

I think there is more to this story beyond her bf having lunch with a female co-worker, but OP has left the building so I guess we shall never know.

 

Certainly, Katrina!

 

Wishful thinking here, but it would be nice if OP returns to answer our questions.

[ThatwasThen]

They work together. When you act like a prison guard no one is going to feel good about being open with you.

 

He will eventually break up, but not because of her, "emotional affair", etc, but because of your insecurities and controlling jealous behavior.

 

I disagree. I'd love to take a poll of all the long term couples who have had happy successful unions to see how many of them would agree to their other half (for all intents and purposes) dating another woman/man.

 

I too, as does Batya, find it rather odd that he didn't let his partner know that he was spending so much time with this woman.

 

*looks in crystal ball and sees* If he breaks up with her over her "jealousy and insecurity" then he will soon thereafter be the partner of his walk/lunch partner.

[reinventmyself]

Op's boyfriend is bonding past a platonic dynamic if the two of them insist on being alone together for intimate walks one on one and having lunch one on one this often... (two times a week, every week).

 

I did't read that the walking was in anyway intimate and that they insisted noone else could join them.

 

Don't mean to split hairs, but at the same time I think this could go either way.

 

It's not about who's attractive or ugly and who gets to go.

If the two of them find each other attractive and they have a routine to this degree, there is an opportunity to bond and share personal things about each other. That checks a couple boxes for concern. But not to the degree that it needs to be addressed.

 

What is not known here is their level of integrity and the personal boundaries they operate within.

 

The poster should know her husband well enough to trust him, unless he's given her reasons not to.

 

But I can't lie - it might be on my radar to some degree. But I personally wouldn't say anything, unless given good reason.

 

This just isn't a good enough reason.

[ThatwasThen]

"This just isn't a good enough reason." For you perhaps. It would be for me and luckily my husband has the same boundary. It's worked well for the two of us for the past 40+ years.

 

To each their own, Op isn't comfortable with it so she should address it and ask him what he gets out of spending so much time with her. Op said in one of her posts that they go out to do walk/lunch twice a week

 

What is not known here is their level of integrity and the personal boundaries they operate within.

Like I've said a hundred times before ~ Regardless of level of integrity and personal boundaries when you are sliding down a slippery slope (as they very well are) no one intends to get themselves involved in an emotional affair. It happens through dynamics very similar to what op's partner and this woman are doing on a regular basis.

 

Anyway: Op can decide to carry on without saying anything if she thinks its just isn't a good enough reason to talk to him... that's up to her but I'm thinking its a good reason for her to talk to him if she's worried enough to start a thread about it.

[Wiseman2]

Unless you work at McDonald's, you may have to socialize with both genders of coworkers and that can include lunch, drinks, power walks whatever. It is not about "thin and pretty coworkers" it's about paranoid insecurity. He is most likely already considering her demand that he "no longer see or speak to her" and planning his exit. Who dictates what coworkers you "can see or speak to"? Insane.