Is He Being a Good Friend or Attempting to Seduce Me?

[saluk]

He's probably interested, but also aware of the boundaries he's crossing. If he were here asking for advice, I think the general consensus would be to back off and not pursue this right now. And if that couldn't be done, because he just loves you too much, then actually coming out and asking you would be the next best thing. But since you are the one asking for advice, the situation is obviously making you uncomfortable. When something is making me uncomfortable, usually the only way that I actually get free of it is to risk things getting a little more uncomfortable, and confront it head on. Ask him how he really feels, what his intentions are. Tell him that him asking you on a trip, while it sounds fun, was a bit of a red flag for you, making you think he is trying to cross that friendship boundary that you thought was clearly in place.

 

It's definitely useful to have friends of the opposite sex to help during a breakup, but it comes with a high risk component to rely on them too much. I've been in this guy's place, if he's a gentleman, he's probably not going to come out and say it. It's just going to be randomly awkward all the time. If you can live with that, fine. If you can't, it's in your power to change the music.

[Fudgie]

It is not a big secret that he is overweight and not very attractive. He knows this and I'm pretty sure he knows everyone thinks this. It is almost like he wants to be this way…well, just because.

 

He is damned smart. He knows that any woman that falls in love with him will be because of his brains and personality, not looks.

 

That is attractive to me.

I've dated men who are not conventionally attractive and even those people want to be considered attractive by their partner. Maybe not everyone else, but their partner, yes. You're rationalizing to yourself here. I bet if he actually knew how you feel, he'd feel pretty hurt.

[ParisPaulette]

Wow, this certainly has touched off another round o' debates hasn't it. The bottom line is this. If this guy saw how OP describes him in the physical sense, how he's overweight, his smell is off, I think I saw something somewhere about not grooming coupled with her remarks that if only she could sleep with her ex and let this guy take her out on the town plus repeated comments about his physical appearance being unattractive, how she couldn't imagine kissing him and so on and so forth...I think the guy would be butt hurt and would likely never speak to OP again. Even if he had no interest in her romantically. I hope no one, not even my worst enemy, damns me with that kind of faint praise.

 

I also think if this were a guy saying these things about a woman who was suddenly coming around him following his breakup with a wildly attractive yet toxic woman we'd all be reacting far, far differently.

 

Naomi, I'm not even sure what the question is or what you're trying to do here any more. You asked a question, we all answered, you don't seem to like the answers that have been given to you. So let me try another answer. After much reflection I am rethinking his tactics. It may very well be he is simply feeling sorry for you. Maybe he's trying to show you through example that getting involved in things like charities and helping others will fulfill you in life far better than hooking up with shallow men who have nothing to offer outside of the bedroom will. Maybe, just maybe as a friend, he's trying to show you there is more to life than just the physical looks. Maybe. I don't think any of us, you included, have considered the possibility he just feels sorry for you. After all it's kind of awful when you see a friend in distress beating themselves up over chasing someone who treats them horribly. I've certainly been there before, that's true.

 

So my advice now is different. Go volunteer, go do some charity work, get involved in a few causes, take a page out of this guy's playbook altogether as a human being and stop worrying about the physical aspects, the whole "I can't live without a man/woman" mentality that plagues so much of what passes for society these days. I think if you stop worrying about the whole is he/isn't he thing and instead focus your attention on causes, on helping others who are less fortunate, this will all resolve itself anyways. All of it. It's much harder to be focused on the physical or other issues when you're just flat-out in the middle of it all, sleeves rolled up, hands dirty, helping someone or even an animal who needs help.

 

Maybe this isn't so much about you wanting to date or not date this guy. Maybe it's more about you wanting to become more like this guy. And that would not be a bad thing, I think.

 

As to the rest of it, it'll sort itself out one way or another I'm sure.

[j.man]

While I agree that OP shouldn't be exploring options with this guy, I don't have any sympathy for him here. He's vulturing and not being upfront about his intentions. If he were to come out and say, "I'd like to date you," and she then said OK knowing she wasn't attracted to him, then I'd say she's being irresponsible with the guy's feelings. But thus far, guy hasn't done that. If he wants to get burned playing his own game, so be it.

[Hermes]

As always, Paulette, you are right on the money.

 

"Naomi, I'm not even sure what the question is or what you're trying to do here any more. You asked a question, we all answered, you don't seem to like the answers that have been given to you. So let me try another answer. After much reflection I am rethinking his tactics. It may very well be he is simply feeling sorry for you."

[Hermes]

As Journeynow says:

 

"Naomi, have you been single, really single, not dating, not being treated by gents, not being wined and dined? Why not take some time off from men, period. Get the ex out of your system, heal from any ex-exes, be ok on your own, and think about what you truly value? It's too soon from Dr1, IMO, for you to think or respond clearly to anyone new. But what do I know? That's just my 2 cents.

 

I just keep hearing your confusion, you saying you don't know what you want with guys."

[mhowe]

Then he can come post here at ENA and get wonderful advice from you guys on how to deal with a broken heart and the art of no contact.

 

 

 

If he continues treating me well the way he has been, being generous with his time and texts and money and intellectually stimulating, it might happen. He deserves me more than doctor1 ever did. I just hope this isn't a game he's playing to "win" me because he's got the cliff notes to my heart and he feels he wants to compete with doctor1.

 

Anyway, the more unattractive and overweight he is, the more skinny and pretty it makes me look.

 

I'm not even 100 percent sure if he likes me or not….this is pretty much all speculation. He could be using me so people don't think he's gay, for all I know. (not that there's anything wrong with that.)

 

He deserves me more than doc1 ever did? Nice ego.

[reinventmyself]

Having been thru something similar:

 

After getting out of a LTR where we had off the charts physical chemistry but ultimately he was narcissistic and controlling.

I took some time off dating and 8 mos later I met his opposite, sweet, loving yet passive and introverted. He was handsome tho there wasn't the attraction and connection I typically need to enter into a relationship but did anyway. Ending anything you're invested in is difficult.

7 mos later, I learned my lesson and tho I was never really in love w him I was attached to him.

I realized he offered everything I was hungry for from my last relationship. That in itself was the hook.

I think the lesson here is to not compromise yourself by swinging too far one direction or another.

It's about taking your time and finding someone who hits that sweet spot in the middle.

We've all read how you compromised yourself in your last arrangement. Don't risk doing it again

I imagine you'll come back and say how you aren't attached but you are wrestling w whether to get involved with yet another man not well suited for you.

 

I hear you wondering out loud if he could ultimately be the one for you. But are you the one for him?

[Hermes]

Yes, indeed, Reinvent:

 

"We've all read how you compromised yourself in your last arrangement. Don't risk doing it again

I imagine you'll come back and say how you aren't attached but you are wrestling w whether to get involved with yet another man not well suited for you.

 

I hear you wondering out loud if he could ultimately be the one for you. But are you the one for him?"

[journeynow]

I really do not know if he likes me romantically for sure, or is lonely, or is a caring friend. No matter how much you guys say it is obvious, I still have doubts. How come he hasn't tried to kiss me or make a move? Why is he treating me the exact same as he has these past four years, with the exception of the frequency with which we see each other? And if I offer every single time to pay and he turns it down, that is on HIM, not me.

 

It's NOT the exact same if there's a major exception of frequency.

 

You have some responsibility for setting boundaries.

 

If I had a friend, ANY friend, insisting on such a power imbalance every time, I would put a stop to it.

 

And even my sibling and her husband, who make 10x what I do and usually insist on paying, will let me treat them at a coffee shop. But I say before we even go in "my treat!" and do not wait until the bill comes.

 

If I was male and my attractive female friend was going through a tough time, I'd be there for her as much as I could, but I certainly wouldn't be placing expectations on her as she's healing and getting back on her feet. Honestly. Ulterior motives to swoop in on her? No, I wouldn't behave in that fashion, and that's why I have my doubts about him wanting a relationship with me.

 

Why does "attractive" play into it, if it is "friendship"? If you had a female friend taking this much of your time and planning and paying for everything, wouldn't you think it odd?

[Naomi99]

He deserves me more than doc1 ever did? Nice ego.

 

I find it odd that in my 160-plus page thread about the doctor our casual relationship that the advice there was "He doesn't deserve you…"

and yet when I post it here, you point out I have a "nice ego." Sarcastically, I'll add.

[journeynow]

I find it odd that in my 160-plus page thread about the doctor our casual relationship that the advice there was "He doesn't deserve you…"

 

Is THAT the advice you got from that thread?

[mhowe]

No sarcasm intended. Someone else making the comment is one thing. YOU saying it speaks to your own ego and sense of entitlement. Which is why you are letting this guy treat you like a date and giving him your loyal friendship in return.

[Naomi99]

Why does "attractive" play into it, if it is "friendship"?

 

I was answering a hypothetical posed by Fudgie. No, I was not "inflating my ego" since I happen to have a nice one according to Ms. Howe.

 

Quote Originally Posted by Fudgie View Post

If you were a man and saw that one of your attractive, desirable female friends was suddenly single and you liked her, what would you do? How would you feel if you found out that she willingly went on tons of dates with you but she really thought you were unattractive and didn't want to date you?

If I was male and my attractive female friend was going through a tough time, I'd be there for her as much as I could, but I certainly wouldn't be placing expectations on her as she's healing and getting back on her feet. Honestly. Ulterior motives to swoop in on her? No, I wouldn't behave in that fashion, and that's why I have my doubts about him wanting a relationship with me.

[Naomi99]

Is THAT the advice you got from that thread?

 

That was ONE of the many things that was said.

[Hermes]

Yep. That's it.

 

"YOU saying it speaks to your own ego and sense of entitlement. Which is why you are letting this guy treat you like a date and giving him your loyal friendship in return."

 

Journey. Well you know, as I do, that "none so blind as those who do not wish to see".

[Naomi99]

And yet if I stick with someone who treats me poorly, I get pegged with low self esteem.

 

If I say this person who doesn't treat me well doesn't deserve me, I have an inflated ego.

 

Christ.

[mhowe]

You do have poor self esteem...a sense of entitlement...they are Not mutually exclusive. In fact, they generally go hand in hand.

[Naomi99]

Wow, this certainly has touched off another round o' debates hasn't it. The bottom line is this. If this guy saw how OP describes him in the physical sense, how he's overweight, his smell is off, I think I saw something somewhere about not grooming coupled with her remarks that if only she could sleep with her ex and let this guy take her out on the town plus repeated comments about his physical appearance being unattractive, how she couldn't imagine kissing him and so on and so forth...I think the guy would be butt hurt and would likely never speak to OP again. Even if he had no interest in her romantically. I hope no one, not even my worst enemy, damns me with that kind of faint praise.

 

I would never ever ever say this to him or anyone!!! This is an anonymous message board and I'm being upfront with you.

 

His grooming and what he chooses for his diet is his business. I'm being honest and telling you the truth. I'm not going to sit here and lie and tell you I find him physically attractive. And I never said I couldn't imagine kissing him in the sense it revolts me, but what I meant is I couldn't imagine him having the balls to actually make a move. What I have said countless times is if the occasion arose, maybe I should TRY and let him kiss me and see where it goes. I have never kissed someone out of passion for their personality. It's always been a physical passion and look at how all of those relationships turned out. Based on honeymoon hormones and it is unsustainable.

 

I have also said the more I hang out with him, his personality and kind qualities are surpassing what I used to find at the top of my list: sexual chemistry. And maybe this is the new way to go for me. I enjoy spending time with him and he treats me well, he is smart, engaging, responsible and basically everything I want minus the physical attraction. I DO find him attractive in his own way, with his personality and heart at the forefront.

 

I also think if this were a guy saying these things about a woman who was suddenly coming around him following his breakup with a wildly attractive yet toxic woman we'd all be reacting far, far differently.

 

What does this have to do with the price of rice in China?

 

Naomi, I'm not even sure what the question is or what you're trying to do here any more. You asked a question, we all answered, you don't seem to like the answers that have been given to you. So let me try another answer. After much reflection I am rethinking his tactics. It may very well be he is simply feeling sorry for you. Maybe he's trying to show you through example that getting involved in things like charities and helping others will fulfill you in life far better than hooking up with shallow men who have nothing to offer outside of the bedroom will. Maybe, just maybe as a friend, he's trying to show you there is more to life than just the physical looks. Maybe. I don't think any of us, you included, have considered the possibility he just feels sorry for you. After all it's kind of awful when you see a friend in distress beating themselves up over chasing someone who treats them horribly. I've certainly been there before, that's true.

 

I MENTIONED THAT SEVERAL TIMES IN MY POSTS, but it seems to be ingnored. I keep saying, does he feel sorry for me? Is that why he's been so sweet and wanting to spend time? But people want to focus on the fact I don't find him physically attractive and I need to stop seeing him. Well, why would I stop seeing him if he just feels sorry for me? This is what I am trying to figure out.

 

 

Also I never ever ever chased doctor1. Never. I saw him at our usual once-per-week, had a nice time. Became stressed when the relationship as not progressing and I removed myself from it exactly one week after I asked him how he felt.

 

 

So my advice now is different. Go volunteer, go do some charity work, get involved in a few causes, take a page out of this guy's playbook altogether as a human being and stop worrying about the physical aspects, the whole "I can't live without a man/woman" mentality that plagues so much of what passes for society these days. I think if you stop worrying about the whole is he/isn't he thing and instead focus your attention on causes, on helping others who are less fortunate, this will all resolve itself anyways. All of it. It's much harder to be focused on the physical or other issues when you're just flat-out in the middle of it all, sleeves rolled up, hands dirty, helping someone or even an animal who needs help.

 

Maybe this isn't so much about you wanting to date or not date this guy. Maybe it's more about you wanting to become more like this guy. And that would not be a bad thing, I think.

 

As to the rest of it, it'll sort itself out one way or another I'm sure.

 

Thank you. I know how to live without a man.

[Naomi99]

You do have poor self esteem...a sense of entitlement...they are Not mutually exclusive. In fact, they generally go hand in hand.

 

Thanks, Dr. Jung.

[journeynow]

What do you want at this time, for yourself. A friendship? Seduction? Neither? Both?

[journeynow]

That was ONE of the many things that was said.

 

Fair enough. I think the overall advice was to be less passive. Applies here, too, perhaps?

[reinventmyself]

I think where you are tripping yourself up here is by proposing the question whether or not this guy has romantic intentions but you then slide over justified getting involved with someone you admit you're not attracted to.

 

Same scenerio, different day! Though somethings are different ultimately the end result will be that of the dr debacle.

You likely being entangled with an ill suited partner.

 

My guess is the responders are growing weary.

[Naomi99]

Did you ultimately end up long-term with the second guy? You never said.

 

I feel like I've prioritizing the wrong things in relationships. Doctor1 was all about physical passion but he never loved me and was selfish.

 

I'm much more relaxed and comfortable with this guy than the doctor. He is not as uptight, he's very, very gentle and most importantly treats me well and is kind to others.

 

Am I the one for him? That's for him to decide, not me.

[reinventmyself]

We lasted 7 months.

If I could do it over again I wouldn't have done it. My intentions were in the right place but it was trying to fit a round peg in a square whole. He sensed I never truly loved him and for that I feel really guilty. In the end we were both disappointed and hurt.