Out with OLD and in with....older. Or....Matchmakers, why not?

[thejigsup]

If I like a guy and want to schedule a date, I call him. No game playing for me. If he gets offended because I am a confident, outgoing, type A woman, I want to know right away. Why do we always try not to "scare" them? Like we're a vicious animal or something? Plus, many guys nowadays are waiting for us to call. Why the heck not? Is it a cardinal sin to like someone? I must have missed that.

[Batya33]

If I like a guy and want to schedule a date, I call him. No game playing for me. If he gets offended because I am a confident, outgoing, type A woman, I want to know right away. Why do we always try not to "scare" them? Like we're a vicious animal or something? Plus, many guys nowadays are waiting for us to call. Why the heck not? Is it a cardinal sin to like someone? I must have missed that.

 

I agree with you totally. In this case I think it would be too pushy on her part, even if it were a platonic friend. I think if you like someone and want to get to know them better then you express your interest and then let the person have the space to come to you rather than risk overwhelming the person who you just recently met. Especially with dating it's easy to feel overwhelmed by someone else that early on and feel turned off whether the man or woman is behaving too "full on". I think after what she said to him on their first date (which I personally thought was more than fine, showed interest, enthusiasm and was done in a really light-hearted, friendly, but also very sincere way), and after they texted, she contacting him again to ask him out on a date would be too much on her part and come accross as too clingy with a brand new person.

 

It's not about games -it's about thinking about the other person and how you would feel if you heard from someone too much too soon and with the added "let's make a plan to see each other". Certainly if the person always wants to be full on and the person making most or all of the plans, and wants to be able to express feelings as soon as she/he feels them, even if she just recently spoke to the person then better to let the other person know that that is the M.O. I do think many people who go overboard in the beginning (overboard IMO) are not being themselves they're just being their infatuated selves -and that's a short term "self" -why ruin a potentially good thing by behaving in that self-absorbed way? I am making new friends right now and I am careful not to overwhelm even if I feel we could click as good friends. Overwhelm is different than "scare" just like thinking of the other person is far different from "playing games".

[LoveSoDeep]

If I like a guy and want to schedule a date, I call him. No game playing for me. If he gets offended because I am a confident, outgoing, type A woman, I want to know right away. Why do we always try not to "scare" them? Like we're a vicious animal or something? Plus, many guys nowadays are waiting for us to call. Why the heck not? Is it a cardinal sin to like someone? I must have missed that.

 

Honestly, I agree with you. I'm still a little torn about what is the best course of action though.

 

I may not be a strong Type A personality but I'm not timid....and if me asking for a date is going to scare a guy off then a lot of other things I do are going to scare him off anyway. We're not vicious animals! You're so right, if they are scared let them be sacred, we need the ones who think going after what we want is "hot."

 

The thing is there's a difference between going after what you want and appearing desperate and it's such a fine line. I think the way to balance this out is to give him a chance to ask...give him his couple days to do his thing and then if he's not asking and I want to see him then I can bring it up, but more like "Hey, I saw this fun thing, we should do this!" not something vague like I think we should go out again or asking when he's free....although who knows maybe vague is better. I have no idea. lol

 

I read somewhere if you ask a girl out the day after your date or 3 days after you're going to get the same answer (unless her availability changes) because she made up her mind at the end of the date, either it was a yes or a no to a second date....I totally agree with this and I think it's the same for guys. He knows if he wants to go out with me again and the only thing I gain by asking is an answer....one way or the other. However, I do think that the woman doing the asking does change the dynamic slightly.

[Batya33]

It's not about in general whether to ask a guy on a date. Sounds good to me. In this particular situation I think it would be pushy given what you said, his schedule and how you left things (and also you already contacted him after the date from what I read).

 

Years ago I ruined my chances with a guy by being too pushy. He had suggested after our first meet that we go see a particular movie the next weekend and said he would call me in a few days to confirm (this was pre-Internet/cell). He did not call. I called him after four days and reminded him about our potential movie plan. He agreed to go but something seemed different (during the first meet he was extremely enthusiastic, I think it was Valentine's Day and he gave me a rose and M&Ms ,talked about getting together again almost from the beginning). We met at the theater and his entire tone/attitude was very different and distant. He had a cold so I chalked it up to that. He also was surprised that I had not approached him at the theater when I first saw him -I waited- he looked different and wasn't standing where we'd planned to meet. He never called again. Yes, I looked him up later and yes he married a lovely girl.

 

Before harping on that as only one example that example from all I experienced directly and indirectly was a fairly typical reaction to the woman doing the asking. Of course we'll never know if he said yes even though after that amazing first meet he changed his mind. Could be but certainly that example is typical of how things used to go down when I was dating if the woman asked the man out especially after showing interest.

[saluk]

Hmm Batya - I don't think that you calling to remind him he was supposed to call is what did it in that instance. He said he would call and didn't, didn't meet where you agreed to meet... I think he wasn't really interested in general.

 

There have been two cases where the girl has expressed interested and I kind of had an "eww" reaction. But in both those cases I was really on the fence about seeing them again already. I don't think if I was into her it would throw me off. But then I'm just one guy.

[Fudgie]

I agree with saluk, Batya. I don't think you calling him ruined it. He never called to confirm after the first date. Had he been interested, he would have called, but he didn't.

 

I think he seemed "different" because he had already decided after that first date that he didn't want to call again, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have heard from him again if you hadn't called him.

[LoveSoDeep]

I think we were typing at the same time before.

 

I get what you're saying. Being considerate of someone's feelings is important...it's important in the grand scheme of things an it's important to me as a person. I think you're right and he must know I'd be open to another date ( I thought it was pretty clear) but how many times have I gone out with a guy who then later said "You're kinda hard to read I wasn't sure if you were interested"...the answer - way too many times!

 

I think I was clear about my interest but guys are different they don't seem to see it with the same clarity that you and I do. I know what I see and what a guy sees very often will not be the same thing.

 

You're right though I don't want to be pushy and I did text him first on Sunday, but honestly I have probably been "nudging" him a bit all along. We decided on Friday night on Tuesday then no texting after that then I texted him on Thursday to see if we were still on and see where/when. He basically just asked what part of the city did I live in and did I have a preference and I answered what area I live in and no real preference because I'm new here and I like trying new things. No answer, but he knew I had a soccer match that night. Then Friday after work I texted him again telling him I was leaving work and asked if there were any hidden gems he wanted to go to. I really was less than 50/50 thinking the date would even still happen. That was when he gave me choices of location and set the time and even though he was still at work. I think I left out the part about me being more proactive last week.

 

So maybe I set the precedence that I'm not afraid to give a little push here and there. LOL I've already broken the rules a little, so why am I so worried about following them now? I'm really not sure.

[LoveSoDeep]

Hmm Batya - I don't think that you calling to remind him he was supposed to call is what did it in that instance. He said he would call and didn't, didn't meet where you agreed to meet... I think he wasn't really interested in general.

 

There have been two cases where the girl has expressed interested and I kind of had an "eww" reaction. But in both those cases I was really on the fence about seeing them again already. I don't think if I was into her it would throw me off. But then I'm just one guy.

 

Yeah. I tend to agree. But agreeing to this kinda means if this guys doesn't call/text me then he isn't interested either....doesn't it? Although I guess in my case the guy did not say he would call...not expressly.

 

I agree with saluk, Batya. I don't think you calling him ruined it. He never called to confirm after the first date. Had he been interested, he would have called, but he didn't.

 

I think he seemed "different" because he had already decided after that first date that he didn't want to call again, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have heard from him again if you hadn't called him.

 

This is kinda how I feel. If he's not really feeling into it and I ask him out again he could say no and there's my answer or we could go out again and if it's not the same then I have my answer and I've only invested 2 dates.

[itsallgrand]

I don't follow any particular rules. I think it's his turn though to let you know he wants a second date by setting one up. You already let him know you want one.

So that's where it is until he gives you some more interest back.

Try not to over think it. He knows.

[Batya33]

I agree with saluk, Batya. I don't think you calling him ruined it. He never called to confirm after the first date. Had he been interested, he would have called, but he didn't.

 

I think he seemed "different" because he had already decided after that first date that he didn't want to call again, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have heard from him again if you hadn't called him.

 

Yes, that could be. On the first date he saw a truck go by from the wedding industry and smiled at me that that was a sign about us, and was generally really into me and into getting together again. Sure he might have changed his mind the second he got home. When he accepted the date when I called he still seemed interested and firmed up the plan (back then it was unlikely that a guy would call right away what with only having land lines and I was a student -late 20s - at the time -no office number either).

 

Maybe a bad example of the many I have of pushiness turning a guy off (or even of course a budding platonic friendship, same sex). I remember one of my male friends telling me how he'd be really interested and then she would start calling a lot, asking him out a lot, etc and his interest would decrease. One example of many.

[LoveSoDeep]

People can change their mind for any number of reasons....although I'm kinda like you in that I would probably chalk this up to being pushy. Not that I thought you were pushy....but his possible perception of what happened.

 

There's a big difference between asking someone out a lot and texting them a lot or calling all the time and initiating contact once or twice in a week or asking for one date I just am never sure where the line is. lol I do know that I texted him first on Sunday and if I were to continue that trend on Monday and then again several other days this week...to me that would seem like too much, so I haven't done that and I don't plan to.

 

Honestly...and I'm not a guy but I usually have no idea who is initiating the conversation more of he time....I have to look back at texts to see were there 2 from him in a row or 2 from me. It's not like I text him every day...not even close. I just don't know that guys really pay that much attention to it unless they aren't into you and it's bothering them that you won't leave them alone.

 

There are guys out there that want a woman who will suggest dates and plan dates...I just got my Bagel for today and I kid you not his profile says he appreciates when his date "takes initiative to spend time together."

[PH Suite]

If I like a guy and want to schedule a date, I call him. No game playing for me. If he gets offended because I am a confident, outgoing, type A woman, I want to know right away. Why do we always try not to "scare" them? Like we're a vicious animal or something? Plus, many guys nowadays are waiting for us to call. Why the heck not? Is it a cardinal sin to like someone? I must have missed that.

 

Awesome!

 

 

I may not be a strong Type A personality but I'm not timid....and if me asking for a date is going to scare a guy off then a lot of other things I do are going to scare him off anyway. We're not vicious animals! You're so right, if they are scared let them be sacred, we need the ones who think going after what we want is "hot."

 

Step right up!

 

As with all things, including this particular situation, there are lines and mitigating circumstances. In general however equality has a LOT to do with it, and a strong man - not one who puts up the artifice of it, but a real man - will have no problem with, and even covet and adore, a more assertive woman.

 

There's nothing desperate about saying straight-up "I enjoyed spending time together and would like to get to know you better, let me know when works for you." or "Are you free this Saturday for XYZ?" It's a lot quicker and clearer than all this guess work.

 

Interesting to read the opinions of a variety of women on this. I liken it to the following - one of the Williams sisters, I forget which, is adamant that women get paid the same prize money in pro tennis even though the women's game is not on par nor is the advertising or ticket revenues. However I do not hear her clamoring to play in the men's league, and I am 1000% certain they wouldn't let me play women's tennis where I could probably make a decent living while not hoping to earn a dime on the men's circuit. And for what it's worth, I prefer the women's game - they're more appealing to watch and most importantly the style of play is far more relatable and educational to a skilled amateur (male or female).

 

As for the OP's date interest, maybe he's just doing the West Coast slacker thing, however to me he doesn't sound extroverted as much as he sounds perhaps needy or neurotic. When it comes to following a roomie around in order not to be left alone for a few minutes, I'm doubting that's a take-charge type of man.

[notalady]

I don't follow any particular rules. I think it's his turn though to let you know he wants a second date by setting one up. You already let him know you want one.

So that's where it is until he gives you some more interest back.

Try not to over think it. He knows.

 

I agree with this. It's his turn.

 

I think all you'll gain by asking him out is a definitive answer (or maybe not, eg sorry I've been really busy, I'll call you), and I don't think it's going to make you feel any better unless it's an enthusiastic yes. Personally I don't enjoy being turned down for a date, well I mean no one does lol.. so as long as you accept the downside, you can do whatever you want.

[Rosti87]

I have a male friend who has been coaching me in this dating game. He advised that I ask in certain circumstances. Especially when the situation is muddy or nebulous. He says men are appreciative. Having said this I think there is a limit to the pursuing for me. And I think it applies more for socially awkward or certain beta types. I personally think alpha males may not totally appreciate being lassoed by a woman.

[PH Suite]

I have a male friend who has been coaching me in this dating game. He advised that I ask in certain circumstances. Especially when the situation is muddy or nebulous. He says men are appreciative. Having said this I think there is a limit to the pursuing for me. And I think it applies more for socially awkward or certain beta types. I personally think alpha males may not totally appreciate being lassoed by a woman.

 

Lassoed, no. Hounded, no. Clarity is cool. One less person to manage is a godsend. Treat men the way you'd want to be treated.

[LoveSoDeep]

Thanks PH Suite!

 

It's good to hear that some guys like this....the thing is not all guys like it and jot all guys who do like it will like it to the same degree.

 

In the end though I suppose it boils down to if I'm being myself and he doesn't like it, then we aren't really a match. Even if he's a guy that normally hates it....if I were just magically his match then he would find it oddly endearing....he would find himself saying "I normally hate it when a girl does this....but with her...you know it's kinda cute.

 

What is this "west coast slacker" thing? I know people are laid back on the west coast but is this really a thing? lol

 

The thing about being extroverted and following his roommates around....I didn't see that as needy or neurotic....maybe it's in the way I retold the story. He just prefers to be with people having a conversation over being alone and say watching tv. I'm guessing this was an in general thing, not a 100% of the time he needs to be around people....that seems neurotic. Just wanting to be with people and talk to them... I do that too. If I'm at a friends house who's kitchen is not open to the living area and they go off to cook or make a drink or something I don't just stay in the living area I go with them to chat and help them if they want help. Maybe because women do this too it doesn't seem as "manly" but I'm okay with a guy who's a bit sensitive.

 

OR maybe he knows he can come off as needy and so when he dates he tries everything in his power not to come off that way including following the 3 day rule an silly things like that even though he doesn't really want to ....see there are a million options.

[LoveSoDeep]

I agree with this. It's his turn.

 

I think all you'll gain by asking him out is a definitive answer (or maybe not, eg sorry I've been really busy, I'll call you), and I don't think it's going to make you feel any better unless it's an enthusiastic yes. Personally I don't enjoy being turned down for a date, well I mean no one does lol.. so as long as you accept the downside, you can do whatever you want.

 

Thanks NAL. I do tend to agree that it's probably his turn to do something since I texted last, which is why I haven't done anything more.

 

If I do decide to ask him for the second date I'm sure I'll be i n place where I can handle any answer....but you're right no one like to be turned down.

 

I have a male friend who has been coaching me in this dating game. He advised that I ask in certain circumstances. Especially when the situation is muddy or nebulous. He says men are appreciative. Having said this I think there is a limit to the pursuing for me. And I think it applies more for socially awkward or certain beta types. I personally think alpha males may not totally appreciate being lassoed by a woman.

 

True when things are up in the air or say there's a vague plan that needs to be clarified then I think it's no big deal. I'm not sure this falls into that category. I'm not sure yet whether I'd call him a an alpha male type or not....he may be one who's more middle of road. A little more sensitive but not a true beta.

 

Lassoed, no. Hounded, no. Clarity is cool. One less person to manage is a godsend. Treat men the way you'd want to be treated.

 

Really? Men and women are very different creatures this kind of rule sounds like a recipe for disaster...Do you mean only where asking out on dates is concerned?

[Rosti87]

Lassoed, no. Hounded, no. Clarity is cool. One less person to manage is a godsend. Treat men the way you'd want to be treated.

I may have to PM you on this subject if you don't mind. I have a specific situation that I would love a man with your specific point of view to review.

[PH Suite]

You're welcome. I appreciate you welcoming a variety of input. I prefer conversation to television too. I'd read it as a need on his part to not be alone, perhaps that was my own fault/spin, and for what it's worth some sensitivity is a very masculine trait. There are no absolutes, only balance.

 

 

 

 

Generally I'd say yes. Differences are greater between individual persons than among the sexes, in my experience, and once you get to know someone better you may, or refuse to, adjust accordingly. In the meantime might as well just be you with no regrets.

 

Admittedly I'm not the norm in most ways and how I come off, what I discuss on a first date, or write in a dating profile, does not appeal to some women. Perhaps it doesn't appeal to most women. Great, because most women definitely do not appeal to me. Nor do I look for just "a" woman, more like "the" woman. The ones who do dig the way I am, what I say, etc. appeal to me very much so win/win. Time and place for everything, and of course I'm aware of context and my "audience". Generally though I try to establish what I'm really about, and definitely not about, very early on for both our sakes. If there's one advantage to dating as adults and having been around the block, it's to know thyself and what works for you. No sense stressing or guessing.

 

For what it's worth, at the end of a first date if it's obvious we've gotten along and seem compatible I'll be clear that we're both into seeing each other again and what my upcoming schedule is then will make it happen. A friendly prod, if there's any doubt or delay, invigorates me.

 

That's a lot of "I" statements so you can better gauge whether my view is relevant to you, rather than just "a" male's viewpoint.

[PH Suite]

I may have to PM you on this subject if you don't mind. I have a specific situation that I would love a man with your specific point of view to review.

 

I'm happy to offer insight and hope it'll be of some help.

[itsallgrand]

I consider it equal treatment, actually, to hold back for more effort and interest here. Imagining myself (a woman) on a date with a man. And he throws out that he wants another date, not straight out asking, but throws out his interest in that. If I wanted one, I would follow it up with a suggestion of when I am free. Or a place. Or something. There, or within a few days.

I would not expect further follow up if I didn't. A lot of men will pursue hard anyways, but that's besides the point.

 

It depends on your comfort level. I'm comfortable asking men on dates. Actually prefer it. But it always comes back to mutual effort, interest, give n take. And when just beginning, it's so delicate. You know so little of the other person. I sort of expect anyone I am going to keep dating to show they actually want to rather clearly. And yeah, I'll do the same.

 

Anyways, looking forward to hearing the update. And it's interesting reading different perspectives and experiences with it.

 

BTW, had a serious relationship come from asking a guy out when I wasn't 100% sure of his interest or intent, so even my experience is not 100% one way on this. I think of that as different though, because I knew him as a person for a long while before going for it. It's just a bigger risk of there being more one sided interest if you go that route though, IMO.

[LoveSoDeep]

You know what's funny. The last guy CmB guy was all about getting me to go out again. We met on a Sunday and he asked on Monday if I could go to a game with him Wednesday and then if I could do lunch thing with him on Friday (neither fit my schedule so I had to decline) so he was very forthcoming and forward when it came to asking me out but very timid about getting a goodnight kiss and in the end that didn't work out either(after his vacation I made one attempt to start a conversation and when that convo ended he was gone). However, just from the speed of his responses I would say he was more the kind of guy who may not want to give up the lead and might want a woman who lets him do the chasing whereas other guys may prefer the opposite or at least a 50/50 approach.

 

The only way to know is to be yourself and hope they like it. I'm not feeling like I need to give this a nudge right now I feel good about giving it some time to see what he does. If he does nothing I might ping him and just feel things out. Maybe he had 3 other phone numbers from that night he's got to cycle through. lol

[LoveSoDeep]

Yes, good point. I'm all for being fair and equal.

 

So in your scenario if he said "or you can show me your favorite place." would you have then said "okay next Saturday you're on. We'll go to my favorite place." Because my response to this was "Oh I have to think about that" not because I didn't want to go out with him again but because I'm still new in town and trying to think of my favorite place (which is tough for me anyways I hate picking favorites in general) was hard to do on the spot like that. I was thinking more about what my favorite place would be not did I want to go there with him. I see the difference now, but at the time I was focused on locations not companions. It's very possible he thought I was not sure about wanting to go out again or playing hard to get...which was not my intent at all.

 

Asking guys on a first date might be outside of my comfort zone but after that I'm comfortable asking to see a guy again. So it's not out of character for me but I agree I do like there to be some give and take.

 

Yeah I think asking a guy out that you've known as a friend or acquaintance for a while and you're not sure of his interest.....dear lord that's scary. I've only done that once and it turned out he had a girlfriend. Ugh that was rough and i vowed to never do that again. lol

[Batya33]

" I'm comfortable asking men on dates. Actually prefer it."

 

I was to and also did. And when I was dating, I found that if you did that in the beginning, especially more than once, it really could decrease the guy's interest in continuing to date/get to know the person. After you were dating awhile, sure, or I guess if you were close friends first then most likely there wasn't that kind of asking out situation anyway -it just morphed into dating - but first impressions are pretty intense I found when it came to dating and some people didn't feel a spark at first but did later, or felt a strong spark but then questioned their interest if the other person was too full-on. I found it far more effective (unless I just wanted a fling) to let the man do more of the asking in the beginning. Yes, there were times I played games, played hard to get. Most of the time I was busy with work/social life/dating so I typically couldn't accept a weekend date after Wednesday night (not sure if that still happens these days!).

 

I did not operate in my dating life the way I did in my professional life nor did I act submissive or passive -somewhere in the middle. I was myself most of the time with a few exceptions -hard to be yourself if you're smitten/infatuated.

 

I preferred to have the guy get to know me over a period of time -and I him -and most men I went for were more comfortable with traditional dating. I would have had an easier time if I could have done more of the asking, effectively.

[LoveSoDeep]

I think this is why I'm going round and round with this....what I want to do here which is be myself and just ask for what I want just doesn't seem to work as often as it strikes out. It may be what I feel like doing, but it really hasn't been shown to work out. It's not effective...it may be fulfilling at the moment but in the log run it doesn't seem to work. Let's be honest if I don't have pretty strong feelings for a guy after a date or two well it's probably going nowhere and it never gets past 5-6 dates for me if I'm not feeling "it" well I think this is a big part of what "it" is. "It" is wanting to see someone, longing for them, missing them when you can't see them...see it's all about how much you want to be around them...maybe this can grow over time...I think it does but I think this is one of barometers guys use to decide if they have something good. Now they can have this feeling and the girl beats them to asking about the second date....but my guess is that's rare.

 

I have a feeling that this feeling of "I have to see her again" is one of the things guys look for when deciding whether to stay or go. They may go on a few more dates because it's convenient and they do like her a little (and sometimes because they think they can score)but really if they've never had that feeling for a woman I would guess it's easier to walk away.

 

So if I do ask him out...well then it might just be a matter of time. I guess if I was having any success at multi-dating I wouldn't care so much.