Out with OLD and in with....older. Or....Matchmakers, why not?

[LoveSoDeep]

I can't stand the deep end either. The level of interest you described in this particular guy would have signaled for me that he wasn't that interested in seeing if there was long term potential. I understand that it worked for you! Sounds good about being friends -you only met him a few times, right? Have fun tomorrow night!

 

I think because I had the opportunity to talk to him first and get a feel for who he was and how he uses his words I had an advantage. If this had been an OLD guy who as this standoffish I might have thought he wasn't interested either. I don't like to make assumptions about what someone is interested in (LTR vs casual) without asking first....you know the old saying "when you assume, you make an a** out of you and me" I take that to heart....maybe more than I should, but in this case waiting to be able to ask wasn't a disaster. We both agreed we had 2 great dates....it's a win-win. Yes, we met at an event and then went out 2 times after that so I think if he's up for it we could certainly salvage a friendship. He hasn't answered my text about being friends, but that's not one he has to jump right on and he is on his way to a wedding with a bunch of buddies so I wasn't expecting a response anytime this weekend.....besides, it's not really his MO to respond quickly.

 

Well, Date #1 tomorrow with Phil. We're having sushi so I'm excited about that and we'll see if we have any chemistry. Fingers crossed.

 

Still no word from the Matchmaker on when my date with the broken leg guy will be, so it won't be this weekend.

 

Not sure if the other PoF guys I have been messaging will turn not anything but if they do it'll be next week.

[Batya33]

We all have different standards of what we expect with responsiveness! My assumptions about availability worked for me in the sense that I expected to be treated a certain way when it came to interest level/reliability/responsiveness. I didn't interact with a man after a first date who had not asked me out for a second other than once or twice back and forth and if no invitation was forthcoming my stock reply was "I really enjoy chatting with you but right now I'm too busy for a penpal (or chat buddy or similar)" and often that would trigger an invitation. Once in a blue moon I'd add "so if you ever want to meet up let me know and we'll figure something out!"

 

In my personal experience -and I mostly dated extremely busy men who traveled/had unpredictable schedules, etc - the men who were truly interested in potential for an LTR would ask me out on a date in advance within a week or so of the first date -and if it was later they'd close the deal by making a plan even further in advance.

 

Yes, even the "spontaneous" guys -they did not want to risk my forgetting about them while they were away. They also didn't chat me up without making a plan to get together again.

 

Other people have different experiences and approaches I get that. I didn't need to make assumptions about what the guy was looking for -because if he was looking in general for an LTR it was obvious in how he treated me even if he wasn't sure he definitely wanted one with me.

 

This was all about limited time for me - biological clock plus intense/wildly unpredictable career. I know certain men assumed I wasn't interested when I canceled more than one date because of work -even though I clearly explained in advance that might happen (and yes I always made it clear that I wanted to reschedule ASAP). That was probably a good assumption in the end since I couldn't date someone who didn't relate to my choice of career at that time.

 

Maybe this guy has a friend he can set you up with.

 

I wouldn't brand all assumptions as negative -you've made some really helpful assumptions about men in this thread in selecting who to meet/pursue or otherwise. Some assumptions are unproductive I totally agree.

[LoveSoDeep]

I can completely understand how that would have worked for you at that time Batya33. Actually, I might have done some of the same things....but that was then and this is now. What worked 10 years ago just doesn't get the same reaction any more. It used to be I'd say "I don't have time for pen-pals" and a guy would jump into action....I think because meeting women was not as "easy" as it is perceived to be now. They put in a lot of work to just meet me back then and they didn't want to start over....now I think there's a "well I'll just go back on OLD and find another one" mentality. So I feel pressured to go with the flow (as long as there are no deal breakers or big red flags) or start over....and unlike these guys, I really hate starting over. I feel like men think I'm easily, replaced which I don't understand at all, because I know I'm one of a kind and not at all easily replaced. I value myself for who I am and what I have to offer....I haven't met a man who feels the same in quite some time. It's Sad.

 

But I'm trying....I know giving up won't get me there so I just keep trying.

 

I woke up to a dreary rainy day and decided to work from home, so I'm in my sweats with my dog at my feet working away. It'll be much easier to get ready for my date later this way....won't have to do hair and make-up twice in one day. lol

[Batya33]

So I found the opposite, on OLD, after age 35. The men stood up and took notice when I wouldn't accept last minute plans, or flakiness or chat buddy crap. Sure, some of them took the easier way out and just messaged the next woman who would put up with that (two of my friends married/got engaged to men I rejected for lying about their ages - in one case, he let her walk on thin ice to her car at night after an early date -that was ok with her -although I assume they are now happily married- and in the other case they just got engaged after about 6 years of on and off dating, no wedding date in sight) but the men with character and integrity and who actually wanted marriage/family stood up and took notice.

 

One, who I declined to go out with two weeks in a row (because he called me Thursday night for Friday and I preferred to keep my plan for a weekly singles event rather than be someone's after thought) made a plan a week in advance and asked sincerely if we should look at booking a wedding venue in advance so that he'd adhere to my standards LOL. (We only dated 2 months, unrelated issue).

 

It all depends on whether you think you will genuinely miss out unless you bend your sense of how you expect to be treated - I knew I wouldn't and the times I bent I regretted it - both times had to do with becoming too sexual too soon- luckily no lasting negative results but it wasn't pleasant and solidified my sticking to my values. On the other hand, yes, sometimes we have to be open to reevaluate our standards/values to see if they still hold true. I did that a lot.

[LoveSoDeep]

Yeah, it makes sense but when you say after 35 trying OLD when was that....because if it was several years ago my point that things are different now still stands.

 

Also I think different people have different expectations....and I feel like because my expectations are different than yours you think I'm lowering my expectations. I'm not going to say I never lower my expectations because I'm sure I have done it but. However, in this case with M I didn't lower my expectations he started out being someone who didn't text non-stop an I let that be the basis of what I thought was a good level for us. I see this as being flexible within reason and deciding if I like him for who he really is not trying to make him who I want him to be. In the beginning I see a lot of value in being easy going. I'm just deciding if I even like him overall...we can talk about things like maybe I would like more communication after a few dates. As long as it's not way off base I'll go with it just to get things started.

 

I feel like my expectations are different for different people. I don't treat every guy the same I don't expect the same actions and communication from every guy.

 

I'm not bending because I think I'll miss out....I just think I have a much wider definition of what is acceptable for me (which is based on the man involved as well) than you do. I agree there are some values that have to adhered to....there are times we have to reconsider.

[Batya33]

I don't think you're lowering your expectations because you are comfortable with a guy being more casual about asking you out again - I wasn't referring to the amount of communication at all -I never texted and did not like a lot of communication between early dates -I preferred talking once or twice a week, seeing each other once a week then maybe twice as things progressed.

 

It's a pretty safe bet, to me, that if a man tells you he can't see you for 2 weeks because his friend is in town AND doesn't try to make plans in advance with you -or at least a "I am free 2 Saturdays from now, let's firm up the time as it gets closer" then it's pretty clear he's not looking for something serious with you (or maybe with anyone). I just want to make sure you understand I wasn't referring to him not calling or texting you much - I think that is actually better IF the guy is making plans to see you and get to know you in person. I understand you're ok with that and that while in this case it was true he wasn't looking for anything serious, that another guy who had the same approach as him might be. I respect that!

 

I don't think things are different now in the least. When I stopped dating -10 years ago - OLD was a virtual candy store just as it is now - so my friends all tell me. Back then we didn't text but we instant messaged, emailed, and some texting (but I didn't get a cellphone till I was pregnant -I just had a blackberry for email starting in about 2006) -I had long lists of men I was in the process of emailing with/talking to/scheduling first meets - it was hard to keep track!

 

Edited to add -I know it comes accross that I think my standards are "better" and I understand times change - I haven't heard the Wednesday rule in a very long time which many of us followed in the 80s and 90s (no accepting a date for a weekend if he asks after Wed. night) for example - and I know competition is fierce -it was for me- and of course with OLD just like meeting at a bar/club you get that quick first impression and you feel if you don't stand out enough then you don't have the leverage to be treated a certain way -to be courted.

 

I had more dates than I knew what to do with most of the time and most of the time I was treated with respect and like a lady (I know, sexist way to put it). I was not beautiful, by no means a knockout and often it felt like banging my head against the wall. One of my guy friends at the time would have women from an online site coming over to his place after midnight for a first meet (no he did not sleep with all of them). So I get it - there are women who will do that (I know you wouldn't!) so why should a guy be willing to call you in advance to ask you out for a date? Totally fine to disagree on how "easygoing" you need to be in order to give yourself the best options to find an LTR. Again, I respect your decisions and you are a real trooper!

 

This reminds me of Charlotte's dating life on Sex and the City and how she struggled to stick to her standards.

[LoveSoDeep]

I know I think that each of us is guilty of making what we believe sound like the better way...and why wouldn't we? It's what we believe in we must think it's a good choice or we wouldn't believe it. It makes absolute sense that is seems like that when we're just typing away. It's fine.

 

For me the fact that he made thee attempt to tell me he was going to be busy and it may be a couple weeks before we could have a second date showed me that he wanted a second date and life was getting in the way. He could have said nothing and just contacted me again after the wedding. I think he was being respectful of me and my time by letting me know. Then it turned out he did make time for me. Yes, I can see how this could say he wasn't interested in something deep and serious (or he could have just genuinely been busy) but I was okay with waiting to see if that was the case on date 2 or 3....and I did. So it worked out very well.

 

Really though with all do respect. You are not dating now, and you're not dating in my location so you can't possibly know if it is the same or not. I value other's opinions but I also know i'm the only one living this....and to me it feels different. That's all I was trying to say.

 

I didn't really watch Sex in the City but I'm not "struggling to stick to" my standards....trust me there are guys who don't make the cut all along the way.

[Batya33]

Obviously we all have our own individual experiences. I dated for 24 years on and off and met over 100 men in person through OLD, if that's worth anything as far as experience. Many of my single friends are dating in their 30s and 40s and have been for years -and they readily share their stories with me despite my being an old married lady. I did all of my dating in a huge major city teeming with singles so certainly it was dissimilar to someone dating in a small town or much smaller city.

 

My only point was initially that this younger guy wasn't looking for anything serious and to me personally that was obvious from the way he interacted with you after your first date. Totally fine to wait till date 2 or 3 or even later -we all have to choose how to spend/prioritize our time. It's also harder when it's not through OLD because then you have to find out a different way what they are looking for as far as a relationship - on the other hand, people often say they want something serious on a profile but reality is different.

[LoveSoDeep]

Just got back from my date with "What's his Name" well actually his name is Phil but just so we are all clear who I'm talking about.

 

Okay, so we do have good conversation...and maybe it's just because he's trying to get to know me but I feel like some of our conversations are a bit argumentative...and maybe that's because we are both very logical. People say that I am stubborn....and I probably am but he seems to be very attached to his point of view. I guess I felt like if my POV was different than his he worked even harder to explain what he meant....and it wasn't that I didn't see his point of view but I didn't really agree. Maybe he's just testing the waters I don't know.

 

An example as we left the restaurant a woman had a pit bull she was walking on the sidewalk near us. The dog stood quietly and obediently as his owner talked to her friends. He said the dog looked mean, that it looked at him funny like he could bite him. I disagreed - the dog did not seem mean in any way. He said some dogs are just meaner....so what because it was a pit bull? Yes, some horrible people teach pits to be mean and to fight but some...no actually most people teach pit bulls to be nice animals and amazing pets. I refuse to agree that all pit bulls are mean or even that they are predisposed to that...it's all about how they are raised and treated....much like children. Very few (and possibly none) are actually just bad. The fact that he actually believes that is a little off-putting to be honest. Beyond that though if he feels defensive or like he needs to explain his opinion to me when I voice my own....like every time... well that's going to get annoying.

 

Oh and also I won't judge him on this now but there were several things I know we talked about last time we met that he didn't remember. Things like whole conversations we had about the fact I have not watched Downton Abbey, and he asked again if I watched it or other little things he could have easily remembered. If you like me you should be a good listener and part of that is remembering things we talked about. I feel like some people are just too lazy to be good listeners....they just ask over and over. I find that annoying when it's the rule...not when it just happens occasionally....everyone forgets sometimes so let's hope this was the exception not the rule.

 

I don't really know how I feel about him yet. I don't feel like I know enough to say if I actually like him or not. I guess it's not a "no" so we'll just have to see. We ended the night with a hug and a peck on the lips.

[missmarple]

I would take a pass on whats-his-name-Phil.

 

Red Flag no1: the dog looked at him 'funny'? I'll take a wild guess and say that this guy has deep-rooted issues. Today, it's the dog looking at him funny, tomorrow it could be you!

 

Red Flag no2: insisting on 'explaining' his pov...what people like that usually want is, like you said, for you to agree with them. They can't just say 'ah, ok, we see things different' and move on. This can get very tiring in a relationship.

 

Red Flag no3: I know you're saying you won't judge him on forgetting stuff you talked about but I think you should. It's one thing to forget a name or a date but a whole conversation? Not cool at all.

 

All in all, unless I was insanely attracted to him (and give him one more chance just for that reason), I wouldn't go on a 3rd date with him.

[thejigsup]

I don't really like pit bulls. They are beautiful animals, for sure, but don't say most of them are nice. They're not. I've had a cat killed, one of my old neighbors had their dog mauled and their children bit, and I had a friend whose neighbor's pit bull killed all of her chickens. I knew a couple that had a lovely pit, Rosie was adorable, a real love. Her people treated her nicely and she was in no way encouraged to be vicious. But...she killed many small animals in their neighborhood, even though she wasn't at all raised to be "mean". It is definitely in the breed. Here in L.A., you have to have a muzzle on your pit bulls anytime they are outside. There have been so many children, adults, and animals hurt by them. As far as looks go, there isn't a better looking dog in the world, but they can be vicious, believe me. It's not the owners raising them to be mean, I wish it was. There is a movement in our state to outlaw them. That's how many attacks there have been.

[Batya33]

I would take a pass on Phil just for the simple reason that on balance you two aren't meshing -perhaps if it was a first meet you could chalk it up to "nerves" on his part. As far as not remembering -not the best and seriously there's such a thing as taking notes afterwards if you're dating lots of different people. My sense is he is too busy getting his point accross to listen to what others say.

[LoveSoDeep]

Red Flag 1: I agree...I mean it was a dog and no one else seemed to think it was looking at anyone funny. often when a dog is acting aggressive on a busy sidewalk more than one person will see it. Let's not even talk about how he's a 6'2" 200 lb man and I was actually loser tot he dog!

 

Red Flag 2: Yeah this is the one that was rubbing me wrong. There was another conversation....I saw on his profile that he said he didn't believe he would find what he was looking for on OLD but why not try it. So I asked if he doesn't think he'll find it this way what way would he say would be better? He was so worries that I thought he was being negative. I had to say "No you're missing the point it's more a just out of curiosity, what way would you prefer to meet people?" He would stop and think and look confused and try to explain why he wrote it that way....I don't think he ever answered my question.

 

Red Flag 3: I know and I dated a guy who was the worst....I had to tell him everything 3-4 times until I finally just started saying "I already told you" and refusing to answer him and he would eventually remember....he was just lazy everyone enabled him to be that way and I just couldn't do it.

 

No I wasn't insanely attracted to him which is odd because he's pretty good looking, beautiful eyes, nice build, nice smile.

 

 

 

I lived in LA for a while and, I do believe you there were probably a lot more pit bulls in that city that came from rough circumstances. I understand that they are powerful dogs with a prey drive that will prompt them to chase small animals and yeah if they catch them they have such powerful jaws it's not usually a good thing. But I stand by my stance that they are not by any means ALL mean or dangerous. The fact that he thought the dog looked at him funny though was just silly. It's a dog and it was standing quietly waiting for its owner to finish talking to some friends. I almost turned around and went back to pet the dog and play with just to make a point. lol

 

 

 

Yeah, I agree with you ladies we really don't seem to be meshing. The forgetful thing was not horrible...I've seen worse, but enough that I noticed it. Batya33 I think you may be spot on in saying he's too busy trying to get his point accross and in turn is not a great listener. I could tell when I was talking that he was already thinking of what he would say next.

 

He texted afterwards saying we should get together again soon and I agreed, so I'll have to backpedal a little and decline his next invite.

 

The activity guy has been texting me here and there and today sent me pictures from his houseboat. He had asked if maybe we could get together this weekend and I had to decline as I had things to do today and plans to watch football with friends tomorrow. Then he asked me to send him a pic of me for his phone.....really? Maybe it's just me but I HATE when guys ask that. Why do they need it anyway? And no I won't send a complete stranger a picture. I said no I'm terrible at selfies and I don;t send pic to people I haven't even met and he said no worries....I figured that could be the last text from him but it wasn't. I also should hear from the matchmaker again soon to set up a date with broken leg guy.

[Batya33]

Yes I would hate that too about the pic!!

 

And -wow- about what you wrote about knowing he was thinking about what to say next. To an extent it's natural to feel that way during an involved conversation but I think good listeners fight that urge in favor of listening. Also helps with not unintentionally interrupting. I think I know that look you're referring to when it's so obvious.

I am afraid of dogs when owners are not in control -either dog off leash in a no off-leash area or on such a long leash on a narrow sidewalk or path so I cannot pass without coming into contact with the dog. I am typically afraid of pitbulls but if the dog was on a leash and close to the owner I'd ignore it and wouldn't feel the need to say anything. I would be concerned if I thought the dog "looked" at me in that way but would shake it off if the dog was leashed and just keep moving.

[LoveSoDeep]

I know! What is with people? How could that possibly be seen as a good thing? Is it that he's got so many girls in his phone he needs a pic to keep them straight? Or could it be that he doesn't believe that I look like my pics online? Either way isn't a positive. I just don't like it. However, he dropped it immediately and continued to communicate so that makes it not so bad I guess.

 

Phil is one of those people who I feel like i can see the wheels turning when he's thinking about something deep or new. He was definitely over analyzing most of what I sad and probably most of what he said as well. I think that often comes with the territory of being a very logical or scientific person....not always of course...but often.

 

Absolutely, if the dog had been off leash or straying from it's owner on a long leash maybe it would have been different. The dog was standing quietly and obediently right next to it's owner on a fairly short leash and off to the side (not in the middle of the sidewalk where it would be hard to avoid it). I can totally understand when people are a little more cautious of some dogs...bigger stronger breeds in particular, but to assume they are are all mean....I don't know I find that kind of rude. I think the owner has a big part in whether a dog is dangerous or not (and if it was a rescue and not the owners fault then they should at least know what they have to work with) and to assume every pit bull is dangerous is to look right at that owner and think "I don't think you know how to raise a dog, you're a bad dog owner." Trust me, I have a dog who is aggressive towards other dogs (she's a rescue and I've been working with her but she still has her moments) and no one would suspect it looking at her so I'm very careful when I walk her. As long as someone has fairly good control over their dog I give them the benefit of the doubt that they will warn others if the dog is dangerous.

 

Here it's very common that a dog will wear a specific color collar or leash or a specific vest if they are not friendly...and in most cases that's because it is a rescue animal that the owner is trying to retrain. This is a very dog friendly city dogs are allowed just about anywhere...the grocery store, coffee shops, retail shops, on the bus....as long as they are well behaved they're welcome...so for the most part dogs in this city if they are out and about on a leash are safe.

[PH Suite]

Don't be discouraged by these ... well I have nothing nice to say so will refrain. A grown "man" asked for your pic for his phone, when he barely even knows you? I'm not sure what's worse - that or the fact he presumably can't just screen-capture one from your profile. It's probably just a poor attempt at flirting.

 

I'm enjoying the dialogue you have going with Batya, and agree with the advice and viewpoints she's offering.

[LoveSoDeep]

Don't be discouraged by these ... well I have nothing nice to say so will refrain. .

 

Can you elaborate on what I should not be discouraged by? I just can't tell from this post what you are referring to there.

 

I know right? Why can't he just copy my pic from my profile? That's what makes me think some guys ask this to screen out women who don't look at all like their pics....but as someone who is usually told I look better than my pics (because I am just not photogenic) I kinda take offense to questions like that.... then again I know it's a problem....but can't we just get past this by having a drink or coffee isn't that better than a pic? lol

[PH Suite]

I hadn't thought that it might be for verification. I suppose if someone has only professional or touched-up shots or you have reason to suspect they're old shots that's worth considering.

 

I meant not to be discouraged by what seems like, at least to some of us if I understand the comments correctly, to be bush-league behavior in communication, manners, etc.

[LoveSoDeep]

I hadn't thought that it might be for verification. I suppose if someone has only professional or touched-up shots or you have reason to suspect they're old shots that's worth considering.

 

I meant not to be discouraged by what seems like, at least to some of us if I understand the comments correctly, to be bush-league behavior in communication, manners, etc.

 

Poor manners or communication by the activities guy asking for pics or "what's his name"/Phil? LOL Both seem to apply.

 

Yeah moth of the guys I've gone out with say that maybe only 50% or less of the women actually look like their pics....some because the pics they choose are the absolute best they ever look, some because of the use of only complimentary selfie angles, some because they are old pics. I get the wish to confirm that I am who I say I am....but all that skepticism is kinda a red flag on it's own....if that's what it's about.

[PH Suite]

Both, and I'd add younger guy to the list too though I respect you feel differently.

 

Men's pics are often misleading too, true? I greatly appreciate those who offer a variety of shots, especially if they state they're recent pics.

 

Do you find it an "elephant in the room" so-to-speak when you're fairly certain someone presumes you're much younger than you are? I'm in the same boat, with many not even guessing within a decade, and not always sure how to handle it. In turn I'm a poor judge of same in some women, so not sure whether I should ask them out if I suspect of a major age gap (though often it turns out they're unperturbed). Blurting it out at the offset isn't cool. Waiting until it comes up can be a waste of time in case it's viewed negatively or a deal-breaker.

[Batya33]

I did not like being asked for "more pics" since I posted 4 including 2 that were full length. I would not have liked being asked in that way for another photo. Ick.

[notalady]

I guess I'm kinda lucky, out of all the guys I've been on dates with, only one asked for more photos. At first I thought he meant dirty photos, and was thinking w t f? Then turns out he was asking for any photos. I was like, um why? The 8 photos I posted wasn't enough?

 

That's 8 photos in different settings, close up (half body) and further away (full body). No selfies. Surely that's enough proof that a/ I'm real and b/ that's what I look like?

 

I did end up sending him one additional photo, after I responded with "only if you send me your photo first" and he did.

 

He turned out to be a big manipulative liar.

[Batya33]

Did you ever figure out the point of his request?

[notalady]

Not really, I just guessed he wanted to know if I was real? Though I thought it was absurd considering the amount of photos I had on my profile.

[notalady]

Or also possible, he forgot which girl he was talking to (couldn't match profile to number/name), so just asks every girls for their photo.