I've waited long enough...

[Fudgie]

I think it's great that you decided to prioritize your health.

 

Since weight is such a sensitive subject to many people, I find it somewhat surprising that you can express your sentiment (see quote) so freely, because if someone of lower weight (however you want to define that) would say something like that they would most likely be called many negative adjectives such as 'prejudicial, judgmental, lacking empathy etc'.

 

I have mixed feelings on the whole subject...

 

Okay, there was a thread here about "How to express concern to an overweight friend". I wish I could find it. My take is that overweight people, especially OBESE people like myself, are not stupid and know that the weight is there and that it is rude to offer unsolicited advice. Don't lecture them on going to the gym, don't obviously (because yes, it's obvious) try to force them to eat healthy. I've only had a couple people do that to me but it makes me very angry when it happens because I take it as an insult, like they think I don't know that I am fat. So I definitely can be sensitive to what people say to me. And honestly, that's the one thing that people can say to me that really gets me angry.

 

But my journey to how I think about my weight is definitely different from most people. I never had a desire to "fit in" with popular people who were thinner. I never tried to hide my weight. All of my boyfriends LIKED the weight that I was, not necessarily wanting me to get bigger but they liked me how I was. And the people who put me down, well, I always felt like I was better than them in a way. My mom used to make hurtful comments..."Yeah, well you're no string bean yourself, Mom." She hasn't made hurtful comments since my teens.

 

Even at work now, I work with violent, demented patients many times. Just angry, horrible people. And since you're the one who is restraining them and watching them, they will yell at you and insult you. I've been called "fat", "pig", "hog", etc. I'll say something like "Yeah that's me! A whole lotta woman" but inside, I'm thinking "Yeah, but you have a coke addiction and you're screaming like a 6 year old while wearing an adult diaper. Your thoughts matter SO MUCH to me!" Many of them just stopped insulting me because they could see that it doesn't work. I don't get angry or hurt.

 

So for a long time, I've been forced to see my weight, for what it is. Many, many overweight people have not been forced. They are surrounded by (usually overweight) family and friends who will console them and sabotage diet attempts because THEM losing weight forces THEM to look at their own health failings. I have medical people in my family. I've had it drilled into my head that I am essentially killing myself. I've been verbally abused at work. I can't cover it up or see it as anything else other than it is.

 

And yeah, I am not happy with my body most of the time, but I don't hate it. I still have sex often and enjoy it, lights on, covers off. I probably spend a good part of my free time naked just because, well, I like to be naked. I've skinny dipped a LOT in the past, even when I was obese...no one was around but you get what I mean. I AM a little iffy about wearing a bathing suit in public but you know what, I do it anyway and have a great time! I go swimming, I go to water parks, etc. At my weight! I don't wear bikinis but I wear solid one pieces. N compliments me on how I look in a bathing suit and it makes me feel like a billion bucks! I don't have this weird relationship with food. I can eat both alone and with others. Do I like food? Heck yes! I like both healthy and unhealthy food and I'm not going to pretend to dislike one or the other just because of my weight. But the overweight people I've met, mostly girls, they are not like me. They make weird comments to each other about weight. They are weird with food. They are particularly weird about relationships and sex. I DO see that cycle of hatred and shame...and I don't have it myself....so I can't stand to be around it.

 

I mean, I've heard this very conversation:

 

"I'm sooo fat."

"Noooooo you're not!"

"Noooooo you're fine! You don't have to lose weight!"

Or (even worse) "But you're healthy! You eat well! You can be a curvy girl and still be healthy!" (GAHHH)

"Oh I don't know why that guy wasn't into you. Any guy who doesn't like "normal sized" woman is a PLAYER."

And then some of them eating poorly together like it's a social activity.

 

I just don't do that! >

 

I am going to have to temper myself because if I do lose all or most of the weight, I'll be "normal sized" and I can't say things like this anymore, even if it's how I feel. You're right, people will get angry at me if I say this when I am thinner. Right now, it's "you're very insightful".

[JA0371]

Hey Fudgie, just caught this thread. I love your refreshing honesty. It sounds like you've thought this through, and that you're mentally on track. Please keep us posted on your decision and progress!!!

[itsallgrand]

I am going to have to temper myself because if I do lose all or most of the weight, I'll be "normal sized" and I can't say things like this anymore, even if it's how I feel. You're right, people will get angry at me if I say this when I am thinner. Right now, it's "you're very insightful".

 

hahhaah.

 

I've mentioned this a few times on this forum, but there is this book called "Fat" and I think you'd love it as much as I do. So much BS around weight, isn't there.

 

One great thing about forums is - didn't have a clue about anyone's weight, until they start talking about it themselves - and so didn't realize what size you were til you started this thread.

 

Don't know my point. Liked your no nonsense approach to things before knowing, and still like it.

[itsallgrand]

The book:

 

link removed

[Fudgie]

Thanks guys.

 

That book sounds absolutely amazing!! I'm sad that there is no Kindle version. I think I may just buy the paper one.

 

I'm interested in reading more about the "fat" phenomenon and how, outside of bad health choices, we get here and how it affects us as a culture.

[Fudgie]

Thinking of starting a new "diet" soon. The goal wouldn't be really to lose weight, but rather to experience what meals would be like after the surgery. Just to see what it's like. It would not last long.

 

You're only supposed to eat broths and then pureed crap for a few weeks after to heal.

 

I was thinking when I have a few days off in a row, I'll give it a try. I already have a high protein diet. My freezer is crazy. I have lean steak, 8 boneless skinless chicken breasts, pork tenderloin, some sausage links, and some turkey/beef pre made meatballs. I want to work on tiny, tiny portions. Just to feel what it's like even if I can't sustain it.

 

I still struggle with strong physical hunger. It is not emotional hunger. For my break at work (I've had a LONG 12 hour shift) I had a turkey sandwich with mustard and 4 saltines with peanut butter. And coffee and 4 oz of cranberry juice. It was okay but I just wanted to eat and get back to work but I was still starving. Physically. Stomach growling. it sucks.

 

I've been staring at myself a lot in the mirror lately. In the bathroom. You ever pinch your fat? Well I don't really pinch. It's more like a handful, several of them. I'll "handful" myself on my sides and I look at the mirror and I don't think much of anything. Just like "this is Fudgie". I can be self-conscious with other people but when it's just me, I don't feel any hatred or shame. Or even happiness and joy. Just "Oh this is me and I'm large". But this bothers me because u stare into that mirror and I'm trying hard to see myself as not fat but it's not working. I was lean as a child but it has been so long.

 

On the other hand, as long as I've been large, I keep forgetting how bulky I am. Last week, I managed to get myself stuck between the wall and the patient's bed. Boy that embarrassing. I was trying to reach an IV cord I think. The patient had quite a laugh as I tried to shove my way out and I made a joke about "clearly thinking I'm thinner than I really am!" I felt embarrassed a bit because I felt like I should have known my own size and not gotten stuck like an idiot.

 

That being said, I don't want to get stuck in things anymore. Sometimes booths feel tight.

 

Is it bad that I can't envision myself as thin, yet?

 

I am going to discuss this with my therapist.

[Angler]

I still struggle with strong physical hunger. It is not emotional hunger. For my break at work (I've had a LONG 12 hour shift) I had a turkey sandwich with mustard and 4 saltines with peanut butter. And coffee and 4 oz of cranberry juice. It was okay but I just wanted to eat and get back to work but I was still starving. Physically. Stomach growling. it sucks.

 

Are you also leptin resistant? That amount of carbs might only make your hunger worse instead of satiating you.

[Fudgie]

To my knowledge, no. Unfortunately, that was all I had to eat. Last night was a bad night and I didn't bring any food with me. Definitely not what I would have chosen for myself. I usually take protein leftovers to work with me. Like chicken. I eat curry chicken a few times a week, one that I make myself with yogurt and my own spices.

 

I don't think I'm leptin resistant because if I were, I would have had this hunger from a young age. It didn't really start until my late teens. I was lean through my childhood and had normal portions, normal foods, but not a lot of junk food either. But I used to feel satisfied. I don't anymore.

[Fudgie]

For example, I'm actually on break right now (slow night tonight though,thankfully) and I have a roast beef wrap. I just have lettuce and mustard on it. I love mustard. Oh and coffee.

 

Normally I'll eat this and be hungry by 6/7am. But I'm just going home and going to sleep so I ignore it.

[Fudgie]

Okay here is another thing that happened this evening: my boyfriend and I decided to go out for Indian. It's this buffet place. I like it because there are a couple dishes I like and it's expensive to order by themselves.

 

I had curry chicken (skinless, no sauce) cubes with some baked, skinless spiced chicken. I put some cucumber yogurt on it. I usually don't like yogurt but I like Indian yogurt because of the cucumber. I stay away from rice. I had some crushed chickpeas. Yums!

 

Okay so I feel full and I go home....4-5 hours later, HUNGRY. I'm just playing around on ENA and stuff..I don't want to eat!

 

I have resisted the physical hunger and will go to bed soon but stuff like this makes me miserable. I've dealt with it for a while now but I'm really starting to notice it now (is it getting worse or am I more vigilant) and it's pissing me off.

[bulletproof]

....4-5 hours later, HUNGRY.

 

But aren't you supposed to be hungry every four hours? Isn't that normal?

 

How long would you like to ideally go between meals?

[Fudgie]

More than 4 hours, ideally. I usually get hungry around 3 hours after eating. And it's not just a little hunger, it's like "OH GOD I'M DYING I NEED TO EAT SOMETHING". Something that a snack doesn't satisfy.

 

I would like to be able to go longer between meals. I used to eat at 7a-8a and eat at 5. Or have dinner and not get hungry at bedtime. It sucks.

 

If I could take appetite suppressants that didn't make me feel nauseous, I'd do it.

[bulletproof]

More than 4 hours, ideally. I usually get hungry around 3 hours after eating. And it's not just a little hunger, it's like "OH GOD I'M DYING I NEED TO EAT SOMETHING". Something that a snack doesn't satisfy.

 

I would like to be able to go longer between meals. I used to eat at 7a-8a and eat at 5. Or have dinner and not get hungry at bedtime. It sucks.

 

If I could take appetite suppressants that didn't make me feel nauseous, I'd do it.

 

I see what you are saying. But honestly, I get hungry again between three and four hours after eating, and I have always just thought that was the regular amount of time for most people. I think I read somewhere that it takes two to three hours to digest food. So I just assumed it made sense to get hungry again. I've definitely had that omg-I'm-ravenous feeling, too, so I get what you're saying.

 

I'd be interested to see the timeframes for other people.

[Fudgie]

I would be interested too.

 

Oops, I meant 7a-8a....and eat at 1. Not 5. Holy crap. Haha.

 

Or at least, maybe the biggest thing for me, I would like to not feel ravenously hungry.

 

I used to just get a little bit hungry and that was okay, just fine...but not dying hunger.

[poetryandlyrics]

I see what you are saying. But honestly, I get hungry again between three and four hours after eating, and I have always just thought that was the regular amount of time for most people. I think I read somewhere that it takes two to three hours to digest food. So I just assumed it made sense to get hungry again. I've definitely had that omg-I'm-ravenous feeling, too, so I get what you're saying.

 

I'd be interested to see the timeframes for other people.

 

Actually, 3-4 is right. Eating small portioned meals every four hours is ideal. That's what I've learned and always known, though I agree it'd be nice not to be hungry before bed and I like food. Btw, if you get busy, as you may know already, you tend to not notice if you're hungry in the 3-4 hours there but pops up again later instead. Happens to me.

[Fudgie]

I'm dying of hunger within 3-4 hours regardless of what I do, even at work.

 

I think this is not normal for me.

[chitown9]

I hope that you have a smooth experience with your surgery, Fudgie. I think it is the right choice FOR YOU, and heck, even your parents support this decision to have this surgery and they are both doctors. Also, your own doctor recommends it for you...it seems like a no brainer to me. I know a lady who had this surgery and she couldn't be more pleased. It can only enhance your life....so i wish you a speedy recovery. chi

[tiredofvampires]

Oops, I meant 7a-8a....and eat at 1.

 

That's not healthy.

 

Agreed with the others that 4-5 hours is pretty normal. It may not be normal to feel RAVENOUS after 3 or 4 hours, but depending on how much you ate at the last meal, after that amount of time it's normal to feel some hunger. Fiver or 6 hours is WAY too long to go without consuming some smaller snack.

 

In indigenous societies, people snack lightly throughout the day. No obesity.

 

The body doesn't like to have to suddenly shoot out all this insulin all at once to handle a big meal. A little insulin for a little glucose in increments promotes an even-keel instead of rocket-like spikes.

 

Your goal should not be "being able" to fast for 6 hours. The only real time you can get away with that is during the night during sleep, when your metabolic rate is at its lowest.

 

I suggest you start spreading out your daily caloric consumption and see what happens. With most of it in the mid-day (or whenever you're most active).

[Huntress0527]

I agree that 4-5 hours is a normal timeframe to be hungry after a meal. I would try to have breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner, and optional snack/dessert if needed. Fasting is not good for the body long term nor will help with weight loss. When I adopted more time eating but less portions I was able to lose weight and not be hungry. I was always at that just right point- not really full but not starving either. I still try to eat in that manner but I'm eating way more now because I'm pregnant.

[LillyLooWho]

Hi Fudgie,

You know I had gastric bypass 10 years ago. I had no complications. When I woke up from surgery, there was some pain but that is normal for any surgery. They gave me pain meds and I was fine. I was in the hospital for three days. The worst of it was that I was bored in the hospital. I had the open kind of surgery (that was the only kind my surgeon would do) so I was in bed for almost a month. My cousin had the other kind with the small incisions and she was fine after a week. In either case, one week or six weeks is not much time in your life to give up for such a life-changing thing.

 

Some people have complications and so for that reason, I don't sing from the rooftops that everyone who is obese should have this done. It is a personal choice but for me, it was definitely the right one. I eat mostly everything that I ate before, just less of it. Some stuff I don't crave anymore but if I do crave it, I eat it. I don't have random "poop" problems. I just go regularly in the morning like everyone else. If I didn't know any better, I wouldn't even realize I had the operation. I feel like just a regular eater, except that I can't eat too much. I will say that sometimes, every now and then, I eat too much or eat something that upsets my stomach and I do feel nauseous for awhile or too full but that is the exception not the norm. Usually when I feel this way, the feeling passes within 20 minutes. It is not a serious part of my life.

 

So I say go for it! It is such a pleasure not to have this monkey on my back. I lost over a hundred pounds and I wear a size 8. I used to be 260 pounds and I thought about my weight and diets constantly. It was a nightmare. Ten years later, I have none of that. And I drink diet pepsi with no problem. I eat brownies. A lot. I eat cheese-its and chicken and rice and pasta and banana bread and veggies and fruit and just everything (in moderation). Except cheesecake. Cheesecake and I are enemies now. Something about the dairy and the sugar together...

[LillyLooWho]

My cousin had it done in July. She had some minor problems at first but she is over them now. She has lost 70 pounds so far. She is the happiest I have seen her in a long time. She finally doesn't mind being in a photo. I am so happy for her. I know the feeling.

[Fudgie]

What problems did she have, Lily?

 

It's okay you won't scare me.

[LillyLooWho]

When they did the operation, they let air into her body and it took some time for it to reabsorb back into her body. I guess it was very uncomfortable for her. She went back to the doctor thinking that there was a leak or something but there wasn't. They are usually very careful about that. Eventually, like about a month or so later, it was all reabsorbed and she was ok.

 

Also, any stomach surgery affects hormones, like leptin and gherlin (sp?). That helps curb cravings because I think these hormone problems make heavy people heavier IMO.

[Fudgie]

Did they operate on her "open"? Because the surgeon who does these where I am does them laproscopically. So not as much opening and incisions.

 

I'm worried about leaks. Apparently statistically, the rates are low for the surgery I'm looking at but still a concern.

 

My consult is soon. I work at a hospital and work with bariatric patients a lot. I see them before and after surgery and it's not always pretty. Some of them throw up and all of them are in pain. I feel like I have a very raw, realistic view of the actual procedure because I actually deal with these patients at work and someday I could be one.

[Fudgie]

And yes, it affect ghrelin. The stomach cells make that hormone. Without much of a stomach, it's definitely affected and aids in weight loss.

 

I'm still looking into the long term effects of this but hopefully it holds up over time. The hormone isn't made in the brain.