(Bratty) Children in libraries, a vent.

[Seraphim]

It is all just difference of opinion.

[OptomisticGirl]

I just see a major double standard with this, which is why I spoke up. Parent with kids want others to respect their decision to have kids and allow their kids to come into establishments but then flip the coin and they don't want to respect none kid adults decision to have a place to not be around them. I just find it odd.

 

Both parties have to work together but you can't work together if one side screams your discriminating against me having a child.

[Seraphim]

This is the legal description of discrimination.

 

"In Constitutional Law, the grant by statute of particular privileges to a class arbitrarily designated from a sizable number of persons, where no reasonable distinction exists between the favored and disfavored classes. Federal laws, supplemented by court decisions, prohibit discrimination in such areas as employment, housing, voting rights, education, and access to public facilities. They also proscribe discrimination on the basis of race, age, sex, nationality, disability, or religion. In addition, state and local laws can prohibit discrimination in these areas and in others not covered by federal laws."

 

I guess it would be up to a judge whether he/she felt " I do not want kids there or I hate kids " as an excuse to make some place adult only.

[Moontiger]

I don't see this a discrimination issues but a behavior issue. Kids are being ban from certain because of their behavior-yelling, crying, throwing fits, because that behavior is not acceptable in certain locations.

 

I know little about the laws concerning this but does anyone know if they are modified for private establishments? I ask because in all the interviews with the owner of McDain's the news reports say what he is doing is not illegal.

[OptomisticGirl]

I just find it ridiculous to see banning kids as discrimination. So if age is part of it, then a 12 year old can say they are being discriminated against for nit being allowed into a alcohol 21 only establishment, right? I'm more than sure the 'age' in that definition goes to the elderly. As in, you can't deny an eldly person work based on their age. Putting it with 18 and under is a bit of a stretch...

[Fudgie]

Yeah I thought the age thing was for the elderly. I never heard of kids not being allowed somewhere as "discrimination". I'm with OG. It's utterly ridiculous.

[Seraphim]

I just find it ridiculous to see banning kids as discrimination. So if age is part of it, then a 12 year old can say they are being discriminated against for nit being allowed into a alcohol 21 only establishment, right? I'm more than sure the 'age' in that definition goes to the elderly. As in, you can't deny an eldly person work based on their age. Putting it with 18 and under is a bit of a stretch...

 

It is not discrimination because of the factor that their is alcohol. There are distinctions made for alcohol and sexual behavoir to disallow children in an establishment, because it goes against morality.

[Seraphim]

I don't see this a discrimination issues but a behavior issue. Kids are being ban from certain because of their behavior-yelling, crying, throwing fits, because that behavior is not acceptable in certain locations.

 

I know little about the laws concerning this but does anyone know if they are modified for private establishments? I ask because in all the interviews with the owner of McDain's the news reports say what he is doing is not illegal.

 

Who knows maybe it is.

[Moontiger]

link removed

 

Age discrimination applies to those 40 and over. Otherwise we would have to let kids by booze, cigarettes, and have sex, the only reason to not let them is their age!

[Seraphim]

Yeah I thought the age thing was for the elderly. I never heard of kids not being allowed somewhere as "discrimination". I'm with OG. It's utterly ridiculous.

 

Why should age discrimination only apply to old people?

[Fudgie]

MoonTiger stated that age discrimination should only apply to those 40+. That means it doesn't apply to kids legally. So I'm glad to read that.

 

I think that if an adult sees children as detrimental to the environment that they want to create in their establishment, then they don't have to let them in. Kids grow up. It's not a permanent state, like race or something.

 

I fully support people in banning kids if they want to. It's their establishment and it's their. If they ban kids, I will frequent there and I'm sure many others will.

 

People can take their kids elsewhere. Not a big deal.

[petite]

If a man were to hang out at a playground or in front of a school on a bench or the kids somewhere, he would be frowned upon and parents would find him creepy. Discrimination.

 

As soon as adults mention child-free places parents get upset. I love children and want to be a mother, but some places in my opinion should be child-free. I prefer restaurants where I don't have a child screaming in my ears or running around my table.

 

Just like we have to tolerate them, they need to be taught to tolerate us and if they become so unruly then remove them. It is up to the parent to make the right choice and sadly many seem to think that just because they have a child, everyone must put up with it. No, you choose to have the child, you should teach them right from wrong.

 

And strip clubs and such places are there for two reasons, for men to get drunk and look at almost naked women. I don't see that as an option or place where I'd go to relax or have fun child-free.

 

I do love children, but that doesn't mean we need to put up with someone elses tantrums just because they are children. I know some people believe its ok to bring a child to a fine dining restaurant and frankly if that's the case, the child should behave. Its up to the parent to control them or go to a family restaurant.

[Saffron_]

 

I fully support people in banning kids if they want to. It's their establishment and it's their. If they ban kids, I will frequent there and I'm sure many others will.

 

 

Me too. I would absolutely frequent and Do frequent places where no children are allowed and I don't see banning children from certain places as a big deal. There are plenty of 'kid only' places so lets see some more adult only places and not just ones like pubs and clubs. We've already got women only gyms and kid only days at the cinema and adult only holidays that are not just 18-30 sex fests! Lol! Very few pubs here ban children but to keep them away they make them as child-unfriendly as possible. If we already recognise that sometimes elderly people want a place where they can get away from the young and women want women only places to be away from men, then why oh why are our adult only environments being encroached upon by children? Lets have a few more people opening up adult only coffee shops and adult only restaurants. Sounds like a great thing! parents with kids still like going out for coffee and they can do so with their kids whilst adults will have a place just for them to get away from screaming toddlers and obnoxious teenagers. Sounds like heaven to me.

[Seraphim]

Ha I want to see ignorant adult ejected from fine dinning too. Unfortunately I have never seen them ejected. Sadly we have to put up with them too.

[Moontiger]

I still say its easier to remove a disruptive adult then a disruptive child. I remember years ago I was out with my family and there was another family sitting close to us with a kid acting very rowdy to the point it was effecting our enjoyment of our meal, my father spoke to our waiter who told him there was nothing the restaurant could do.

 

On the other head I went out to eat with some college friends a few years ago we had a great waiter who was also taking care of a table of what looked like late 20's guys. They started getting loud and yelled a profanity at our waiter, the manager was called and they were kicked out.

[petite]

Victoria, if the ignorant adult is noisy, shouts and is obnoxious you have every right to complain to management. Just as adults should be able to complain about a loud, noisy or naughty child without the parent threatening lawsuits.

 

Respect others and treat them as you wish to be treated and control the child if they are going overboard.

[Saffron_]

Ha I want to see ignorant adult ejected from fine dinning too. Unfortunately I have never seen them ejected. Sadly we have to put up with them too.

 

I've seen many an unruly adult thrown out of an establishment for bad behaviour but not once have I ever seen it happen to a child and its parent. It's just not done which is why people get so frustrated. It's one thing if it happens in somewhere like a supermarket and you have to put up with it but if I'm gonna go out and spend £60 on a meal, I get really annoyed by screaming children and I shouldn't have to just put up with it. That kind of thing ruins an evening and makes me less inclined to go back to the restaurant.

[OptomisticGirl]

Why should age discrimination only apply to old people?

 

Because to give that to a child, gives them the right to go anywhere. A 12 year old may not be able to drink in an establishment but he could say the owner is discriminating by not letting him in due to his age. Sewen ore this argument has no merit?

[OptomisticGirl]

I would rep Petite buti need to spread the love apparently...

 

I agree with everything she said though. Everyone knows how much I love kids and want to be a mom, but, that doesn't mean I think kids are the best things in the world all the time and they do nothing wrong.

[PhilliesFan001]

A government official in my home neighborhood suggested a ban on adults without children in nearby parks because children frequent them...it was an effort to combat kidnapping and abuse. There was a public outcry over this. Lets not pretend people only get up in arms when children are around.

 

I stand by what I said earlier - parents can take their kids elsewhere just like childless adults can take themselves elsewhere if the atmosphere is not to their liking. If you want adult only establishments, make one. Its your right to. Until you do, there is no point in getting your knickers twisted over something that you feel so passionate about, but not enough to do anything about it.

[Saffron_]

A government official in my home neighborhood suggested a ban on adults without children in nearby parks because children frequent them...it was an effort to combat kidnapping and abuse. There was a public outcry over this. Lets not pretend people only get up in arms when children are around.

 

I stand by what I said earlier - parents can take their kids elsewhere just like childless adults can take themselves elsewhere if the atmosphere is not to their liking. If you want adult only establishments, make one. Its your right to. Until you do, there is no point in getting your knickers twisted over something that you feel so passionate about, but not enough to do anything about it.

 

Ehhh that's the whole point of this! Some people ARE trying to do something i.e. the man who wants to make his restaurant a child-free environment but has parents up in arms about how it's unfair. And for the record, sometimes you can't and shouldn't have to 'get up and go elsewhere'. If I'm in a resturant or theatre and I've paid a lot of money to be there, why should my evening be completely ruined because some thoughtless adult has decided to bring their baby along. The reasons people have to have bans is because some people don't have enough sense to figure out that an infant maybe doesn't belong in a theatre where people expect silence to watch the show.

 

Then again, maybe I'm going about this the wrong way. My local cinema has a mother and baby morning set aside for mums with babies under 2 but I've suddenly decided that it's discrimination. After all, those same mothers are bringing their babies to once adult only environments like pubs so I think I'll maybe start going to these cinema mornings. maybe I'll bring my friends and talk loudly throwing in the occasional swear word....except I wont do that. Because I recognise the need for mothers to be able to see the latest films with their babies in tow without people telling them to shush. It's a great idea in fact. If only these same mothers would recognise the need for non-parents to be able to enjoy non kid settings. Child free mornings at museums? Child free restaurants perhaps? or maybe just maybe a quiet section in the library so that the ENTIRE library doesn't become the childs section!

[PhilliesFan001]

If someone is doing something then good for them - I never called it discrimination, just personally believe it is stupid. To each their own . To be honest I find it difficult to get riled up about something like this.

[OptomisticGirl]

Both worlds have to merge but, as Saffron said, some parents think their kids are the universe and should be allowed to go every were they do. There are those who are respectful and use common sense but a feww bad apples ruin it for the lot.

[sophie274]

These threads are always kind of interesting to me, because ... I don't know, where do all of you who constantly run into bratty children who are throwing tantrums in stores hang out/live? I just honestly feel like I very rarely see children in public misbehaving at all in any major way, let alone ruining my zen. I've been out to eat on a pretty frequent basis over the past month, nary a screaming child to be found. I honestly cannot remember the last time I was at a restaurant where there were children at all, let alone ones who were running around and being disruptive. I do see children at my local coffee shops but they're usually fine, same at big stores or the grocery store. I haven't been to a movie in a bit, but at any rate it's always teens or groups of "bros" (lol) who disturb the peace, if anyone. I mean, really, how often do you all witness tantrums or have a child pulling on your clothes or tripping you up, when you're out and about?

 

Honestly, the only place where I run into problems with children are planes and airports. Yes, not going to lie, the sight of young children filing onto a plane does make my heart beat a little faster (and not in a good way). Most of what bothers me though can't really be helped, screaming infants and children whose ears can't handle the airplane pressure, that sort of thing. Earplugs and a sleeping pill ...

 

I'm just surprised at the collective ranting against misbehaving children - not because I adore kids, but because ... where are the threads ranting about rude adults? Surely, unless you work with kids, you see way more of those than tantrum-y kids.

[OptomisticGirl]

I don't know if it's the down grade of our society (lol) or what but down here, were Im at, it's like every time I turn around. A few months ago there was a kid in our waiting room who threw a Coke bottle at his mom -full, btw - when she told him to sit down and be quiet because, well, we are a hospital. It comes in waves for me. I can go a really long time without encountering them and then it's like wth?