(Bratty) Children in libraries, a vent.

[Marah]

You are not hearing what I said

 

No?

 

My answer is get another job then to fullfill your survival needs if they can not hack working with the public. They do not HAVE to have THAT job.

 

How do you know, so emphatically, they do not have to have that job? It's already been called out by OG and Jonty, I just think it's rather cruel.

[Marah]

I don't think a restaurant should ban children but if he only wants to cater to adults that's his right. as Saffron has pointed out, there are many adults who don't want to sit around kids while thy unwind and that's their right. Why can't they have a place designated for them as kids have places designated for them?

 

I agree. There are certainly consequences for banning children, and if he's ok with those, more power to him. I think the quote Moontiger has is so fitting, and really is the theme of the thread...I don't think all parents can conceptualize another person not wanting to deal with their child at all, because that child is often their whole world.

[Seraphim]

No?

 

My answer is get another job then to fullfill your survival needs if they can not hack working with the public. They do not HAVE to have THAT job.

 

How do you know, so emphatically, they do not have to have that job? It's already been called out by OG and Jonty, I just think it's rather cruel.

 

I am not going to argue with you, at least do the justice of reading my qualifying statements and not just one. You seem to think I have not worked with the public which I stated I have for 26 years. HOWEVER, as people have said parents are responsible cause they have had kids, which is true, I also believe we are not just floating in the wind as to employment choices and we have to be responsible for those too.

[luminousone]

Wow, it makes me appreciate our library! We do have a children's section (no gates, but children are expected to be accompanied by an adult).

 

We have a young adult section on the same floor

 

The next 2 floors are for adult and reference books. On one of the floors there are glassed rooms with computers, and users can sign up for the use of those more private computers. Otherwise they are out using the computers on the floor through the middle of the stacks.

 

There is a community room that gets a lot of use, and a fenced in children's garden.

 

If that situation ever happens to you again, you might try kindly asking her if she could take her work and her kids down to the children's area. Or, you could appeal to the librarian on staff to make that request. You will most likely get your desired results if you express it with kindness and compassion (even if you are seething inside).

 

Good luck!

[Blue Spiral]

I'm absolutely horrible at handling any sort of noise...as a result, I seek out child-free environments whenever I can. I get to where I almost forget how noisy and disruptive they are. As such, when I go to the store, I'm always shocked: I have no idea how parents can deal with that.

 

That said, I think that the "hardcore discipline" concept is overrated--children should be taught respect and the concept of cause and effect/consequences, not to shut up and take orders. I grew up with people who had "discipline" drilled into them as kids, and as adults, many turned out to be numb-brained authoritarians that can give/follow orders, but can't think for themselves.

[Seraphim]

I'm absolutely horrible at handling any sort of noise...as a result, I seek out child-free environments whenever I can. I get to where I almost forget how noisy and disruptive they are. As such, when I go to the store, I'm always shocked: I have no idea how parents can deal with that.

 

That said, I think that the "hardcore discipline" concept is overrated--children should be taught respect and the concept of cause and effect/consequences, not to shut up and take orders. I grew up with people who had "discipline" drilled into them as kids, and as adults, many turned out to be numb-brained authoritarians that can give/follow orders, but can't think for themselves.

 

I totally agree.

[petite]

Our state library is extremely large and thankfully caters to all. There are research and study areas, chess room, play room with video games, children-only computers , music and movie rooms and much more. If I need quiet time that's where I go. The local community libraries are a bit different. Children and adults share the computers, the child reading area is often used just for playing and school kids are disruptive. That being said, when I took my elderly great-aunt to her local library not long ago I saw some loud adults too. I was appalled by their disruptive nature and my great-aunt said that was often the case at her library. I do think that libraries need quiet rooms and to control the disruptive public. If one can't behave or keep their child quiet to the point where they are ignoring everyone else and simply thinking of themselves maybe they should be asked to leave. I don't accept anyone hitting me or pulling at my clothes etc. I love children dearly, but if a child at the store or library starts poking and touching me whilst their mother doesn't bother to control them, I will simply tell the parent I don't want their child pulling my shirt or touching me. I am yet to encounter a parent that was offended, but you can easily see who cares about their childs attitude. If I am at the store and a child touches me or pokes at me and the mother tells them to stop and apologize I respect that, but if she just watches the child do it over and over , I will tell her to control her child. I have patience and a lot of it, but I don't poke people or pull on their clothes or yell in the library, therefore I expect the adult to take charge.

[Marah]

Oh if only Marah! Coffee shops seem to be full of kids now too! The only place I can think of now where I can get away from children is the pub which incidentally is where I quite often go now after work even though I'm not a drinker. My local's fairly quiet with the exception of Thursday (student night), Friday and Saturday night. I can just go in with a friend and sit and have a coke and it's total bliss! Some pubs allow under 18s in (but not to drink) and some don't. I frequent the ones that don't. As I said, I like kids but I'm finding it harder and harder these days to find childfree environments because to ban them would be "discrimination". Real shame that.

 

Just saw this, that's too bad. Not everyone can get peace at home, it was nice to think there was at least one place on earth a person could go for peace

[Marah]

I am not going to argue with you

 

I suspect you might

 

at least do the justice of reading my qualifying statements and not just one. You seem to think I have not worked with the public which I stated I have for 26 years. HOWEVER, as people have said parents are responsible cause they have had kids, which is true, I also believe we are not just floating in the wind as to employment choices and we have to be responsible for those too.

 

I have read your posts in this thread, and they're where I drew my reaction, which still stands.

[Moontiger]

Not to add fuel to the fire, and I am asking this in a completely respectful way, why does everything have to be "family friendly"? Again, I like kids, I LOVE my little niece who I watch three days a week. Why can't there be some places that are "adult only" aside from X rated movies? It only seems fair that if there are places that welcome kids with open arms there should also be off limit areas for adults only.

[Seraphim]

I suspect you might

 

 

 

I have read your posts in this thread, and they're where I drew my reaction, which still stands.

 

Well everyone is entitled to an opinion. You to yours and me to mine.

[OptomisticGirl]

Not to add fuel to the fire, and I am asking this in a completely respectful way, why does everything have to be "family friendly"? Again, I like kids, I LOVE my little niece who I watch three days a week. Why can't there be some places that are "adult only" aside from X rated movies? It only seems fair that if there are places that welcome kids with open arms there should also be off limit areas for adults only.

 

I agree. And like you, I love my niece and nephew. I love children, but not everything has to be kid friendly.

[Seraphim]

Not to add fuel to the fire, and I am asking this in a completely respectful way, why does everything have to be "family friendly"? Again, I like kids, I LOVE my little niece who I watch three days a week. Why can't there be some places that are "adult only" aside from X rated movies? It only seems fair that if there are places that welcome kids with open arms there should also be off limit areas for adults only.

 

There are places that are adults only. Children can not go into bars and night clubs and such. Where I go for dinner no one under the legal drinking age can enter. But they are not banning kids per say because they dislike kids and want to discriminate, it is because they are classed as a bar. ( it is a military drinking mess) It is not like there is NO where to go that is not adult only. I get the idea that people want to go somewhere that is quiet and be with adults. I get that. There is no place really that kids can go and adults can not because young children need supervision.

[OptomisticGirl]

There are places that are adults only. Children can not go into bars and night clubs and such. Where I go for dinner no one under the legal drinking age can enter. But they are not banning kids per say because they dislike kids and want to discriminate, it is because they are classed as a bar. ( it is a military drinking mess) It is not like there is NO where to go that is adult only. I get the idea that people want to go somewhere that is quiet and be with adults. I get that. There is no place really that kids can go an adults can not because young children need supervision.

 

Adults like me though don't go to bars and night clubs. Aside from those two places, theree is no establishment that can say it is for adults only without parents jumping down their throats that they are discriminating against their kid.

[Moontiger]

So as an adult, if I want any quiet I have to go to a bar (at times when its not busy) or stay in my house? That seems unfair to me. I should be able to go to a designated study area at a library and not hear children whining. I should be able to go out to a nice restaurant and not see a three year old throwing food on the floor, I should be able to go to a movie and not have 10-15 minuets ruined because a mother is trying to calm a crying child before she takes him/her out of the theater. Just my opinion.

[Seraphim]

So as an adult, if I want any quiet I have to go to a bar (at times when its not busy) or stay in my house? That seems unfair to me. I should be able to go to a designated study area at a library and not hear children whining. I should be able to go out to a nice restaurant and not see a three year old throwing food on the floor, I should be able to go to a movie and not have 10-15 minuets ruined because a mother is trying to calm a crying child before she takes him/her out of the theater. Just my opinion.

 

Ok, so if it is your opinion then what is best to do is petition for these places. Get on the lawmakers to designate such establishments. That seems reasonable. If you are dissatisfied working to change it to the way you want it seems reasonable to me. As I said, why be unhappy.

[Moontiger]

Well, I think such establishments our on their way. Not only is there that restaurant that banned kids under six but I also read about some theater designating "family hours" when parents could bring small children, and a completely different restaurant that put a sign up saying, "Screaming Children Will Not Be Tolerated". I don't think taking to law makers would help since restaurants and theaters are both private establishments.

[OptomisticGirl]

^^ I'm sure someone would see a place like this as discriminating if a parent walked in with their child and was told to leave though, that's the double standard per say. Establishments have to be kid friendly or someone will sue.

[Seraphim]

OK, but what I am saying all the effort put into being upset and angry about it would be put to better use being put into the positive to get what you want. Dissatisfaction should spur you to action right?

[Seraphim]

^^ I'm sure someone would see a place like this as discriminating if a parent walked in with their child and was told to leave though, that's the double standard per say. Establishments have to be kid friendly or someone will sue.

 

Everyone has a right to an opinion though. Just as you will fight to have adults only someone will fight just as hard to have kid friendly. It is the beauty of a free world with differing opinions.

[OptomisticGirl]

But again, any action an establishment takes going 'no kids' is going to tick parents off. Which is why I say no kid adults are discriminated more than adults who have kids. Because you can't say your establishment is adult only if it doesn't serve alcohol because someone is going to cry 'why can't I bring my kids in there?'

[Seraphim]

But OG they are free to whine if they want. Just as you are.

[PhilliesFan001]

I think the bottom line is, if you go out in public, you run the risk of being around noise and disruptive people. That's the way it is. Sure, you should ideally be able to sit through a movie without a kid screaming - just like last week I was wishing I could sit through a movie without the noisy 18 year old next to me pointing out every "good bit!" to her friends. But, that's what happens in a public place - there are people. People make noise, it's life.

 

There are places that are designated adult only, but those are usually because alcohol is served. To be honest I can't think of any good reason why a place would be off limits to kids except for that reason. I don't mean to say "Get over it" because I agree, loud kids are fricken annoying and sometimes I want to bash my head in. But it's up to their parents, not you or I, to designate where they should and shouldn't be, or to control their behavior. And any age group can be loud and disruptive.

[OptomisticGirl]

But OG they are free to whine if they want. Just as you are.

 

*sign*

 

The difference in whining though Vic, as you yourself pointed out in this thread, is it's seen as discrimination to not let kids into an establishment. You yourself were in an up roar over this guy banning kids from his restaurant - when all he is doing is making it an none kid friendly place.

[Seraphim]

*sign*

 

The difference in whining though Vic, as you yourself pointed out in this thread, is it's seen as discrimination to not let kids into an establishment. You yourself were in an up roar over this guy banning kids from his restaurant - when all he is doing is making it an none kid friendly place.

 

But that is my opinion OG. It does not mean you have to agree with it.