(Bratty) Children in libraries, a vent.

[Marah]

Libraries in general are not really great places to study anymore. It's unfortunate. Coffee shops seem to be better, there are usually no children.

 

I support a restaurant's right to choose what kind of behavior goes on in their places of business. Some places are just not meant for children's antics. There are plenty of places children are not allowed to go, and no one calls it discrimination.

[OptomisticGirl]

I have worked in serving the public, believe me, I do not however promote discriminating against an entire group of people. When I did not want to do that job anymore I just went and got another one. And YES, I do live in the same world as YOU. I worked with public for 26 years of my life and if you think I did not get the same things as you you are wrong. I just do not think having a job working with the public is justification for discrimination.

 

Not everyone has that luxury, Vic. You preach no discrimination when it comes to kids but you are discriminating against those who are only trying to do their job.

[OptomisticGirl]

Oh dear well let me tell you this OG, I had an experience of standing in line at reception in a doctors office when all of a sudden I heard a loud farting noise and I looked behind me to see a little boy of around 4 or 5 holding a whoopee cushion up to my ass and laughing hysterically! It was in a room full of people and luckily I don't embarrass too easily but I was annoyed and could have smacked that little sod accross the room!

 

There was also an occasion where I was in a changing room trying on clothes and a little boy who had been peeking behind some of the other curtains, desided to pull my curtain wide open just as I was trying on a bra! MORTIFIED! Haha!

 

Wow. 0.0 I would have had a word with a store manager and the parent on that one!

[ApocalypseDreams]

Not everyone has that luxury, Vic. You preach no discrimination when it comes to kids but you are discriminating against those who are only trying to do their job.

 

That same attitude - "Oh well if they don't like it they can work somewhere else!" is the same attitude that leads people to believe that they can abuse and mistreat people who work in retail or public service.

[OptomisticGirl]

That same attitude - "Oh well if they don't like it they can work somewhere else!" is the same attitude that leads people to believe that they can abuse and mistreat people who work in retail or public service.

 

I can only imagine how the mother of the kid hitting me with the noodle would have felt had I told her 'you can go find somewhere else to shop, there are other stores.'

[Seraphim]

Not everyone has that luxury, Vic. You preach no discrimination when it comes to kids but you are discriminating against those who are only trying to do their job.

 

Why don't they? I am your average Joe, I made my choices. If I don;t like them I make different ones. No, I am not discriminating against people who are just doing their job. No one is reading what I am actually saying so I will say it once again for clarity : DISCLAIMER........ ************************** I am not for children running amok, I am not advocating misbehavoir, yes, I agree sometimes children need discipline and to go home.......and NO they do not get to do whatever the please and bother people..************* did we all hear me now?

 

What I am against is people baring businesses to kids simply because they are kids BECAUSE you can plug ANY group in society in for the word, kids.

[Saffron_]

After the bra incident in particular I was too embarassed! Oh and on both occasions neither parent offered any sort of apology. Now that sort of behaviour isn't the same as a tantrum or toddler meltdown. That's bad parenting. Like you said, if it was an adult it would not be tolerated. But why then am I forced to tolerate it? If bad behaviour was adressed or reprimanded maybe it wouldn't bother me so much but I don't see anough of that these days

 

Edit: On the flip side I do see people over reacting to normal child behaviour and in fact, inconsiderate adults are much worse than screaming children. There will always be rude, thoughtless, inconsiderate, aggressive selfish people out there in every section of society but you can't tar everyone with the same brush.

 

I just wish disruptive behaviour in general whether it be in a public places, schools, public transport or whatever could be dealt with more harshly.

[Seraphim]

That same attitude - "Oh well if they don't like it they can work somewhere else!" is the same attitude that leads people to believe that they can abuse and mistreat people who work in retail or public service.

 

Excuse me but I have never abused people working in the public and I do not like the inference. I worked there for 26 years and I have a lot of empathy for them.

[OptomisticGirl]

Why don't they? I am your average Joe, I made my choices. If I don;t like them I make different ones. No, I am not discriminating against people who are just doing their job. No one is reading what I am actually saying so I will say it once again for clarity : DISCLAIMER........ ************************** I am not for children running amok, I am not advocating misbehavoir, yes, I agree sometimes children need discipline and to go home.......and NO they do not get to do whatever the please and bother people..************* did we all hear me now?

 

What I am against is people baring businesses to kids simply because they are kids BECAUSE you can plug ANY group in society in for the word, kids.

 

We heard you Vic, but you can't say 'oh, just go out and get another job, there are other ones' because I'm more than certain if someone told you 'to take your son else were, there are other p,aces to shop' - would you not offended and felt like you were being discriminated against?is this not the crux of your argument? People shouldn't discriminate against letting kids into places - and people shouldn't assum it's that easy to just up and get another job.

[ApocalypseDreams]

Excuse me but I have never abused people working in the public and I do not like the inference. I worked there for 26 years and I have a lot of empathy for them.

 

I didn't say you were abusing people working with the public. I said that same logic is what leads people to believe that it is acceptable to degrade, abuse and mistreat people working in retail or public service. It's deemed part and parcel of their jobs to deal with disrespect.

 

Telling someone to get another job just because they think parents should control their kids when in their workplace is empathetic?

[OptomisticGirl]

After the bra incident in particular I was too embarassed! Oh and on both occasions neither parent offered any sort of apology. Now that sort of behaviour isn't the same as a tantrum or toddler meltdown. That's bad parenting. Like you said, if it was an adult it would not be tolerated. But why then am I forced to tolerate it? If bad behaviour was adressed or reprimanded maybe it wouldn't bother me so much but I don't see anough of that these days

 

Edit: On the flip side I do see people over reacting to normal child behaviour and in fact, inconsiderate adults are much worse than screaming children. There will always be rude, thoughtless, inconsiderate, aggressive selfish people out there in every section of society but you can't tar everyone with the same brush.

 

I agree. And as someone who has been around kids her whole life, you can tell the difference in a child just being hyper and a child that just doesn't get disciplined.

[Seraphim]

We heard you Vic, but you can't say 'oh, just go out and get another job, there are other ones' because I'm more than certain if someone told you 'to take your son else were, there are other p,aces to shop' - would you not offended and felt like you were being discriminated against?is this not the crux of your argument? People shouldn't discriminate against letting kids into places - and people shouldn't assum it's that easy to just up and get another job.

 

I did not let my son act like as described here. The only time I had troubles was when he had a issue now and again because of his medical condition and I never had any problems with employees of anywhere. I just calmly explained what the issue was and there were more than nice about it. It was other customers who were ignorant.

[OptomisticGirl]

I did not let my son act like as described here. The only time I had troubles was when he had a issue now and again because of his medical condition and I never had any problems with employees of anywhere. I just calmly explained what the issue was and there were more than nice about it. It was other customers who were ignorant.

 

That's nit my point. If someone, an ignorant customer, had told you to take your son else were because there we're other places to shop, would you not be livid and felt like that person was discriminating against you? I don't disagree with you that places shouldn't out right ban kids but if you want to support that you then can't say 'if you don't like your job, go get another one'. Same concept applies.

[Seraphim]

I didn't say you were abusing people working with the public. I said that same logic is what leads people to believe that it is acceptable to degrade, abuse and mistreat people working in retail or public service. It's deemed part and parcel of their jobs to deal with disrespect.

 

Telling someone to get another job just because they think parents should control their kids when in their workplace is empathetic?

 

I am not saying though that kids should not behave and I have never said that. All I am saying is if it bothers someone so much that it really bothers them it is probably better to get a different job and would make them more happy. The public is not easy to deal with and you are right they DO expect people to deal with disrespect, I have faced it a billion times over and that is why I never treat someone working with the public like that. However when it got too much for me I got a job doing something else. My point is why be unhappy??

[Seraphim]

That's nit my point. If someone, an ignorant customer, had told you to take your son else were because there we're other places to shop, would you not be livid and felt like that person was discriminating against you? I don't disagree with you that places shouldn't out right ban kids but if you want to support that you then can't say 'if you don't like your job, go get another one'. Same concept applies.

 

My point OG is why be uhappy in your work. People should be happy in what they do. It is not the same concept because I am not banning them from doing something or going some place based on who they are. That is the ONLY issue I have.

[OptomisticGirl]

My point OG is why be uhappy in your work. People should be happy in what they do.

 

They should Vic but not everyone has that luxury. You did, and that's great, but when I worked for the public I didn't.

[Seraphim]

I had that luxury OG because I went out and made it happen, not because it magically appeared, that is what I am saying. People are not always as stuck as they think they are.

[ApocalypseDreams]

I am not saying though that kids should not behave and I have never said that. All I am saying is if it bothers someone so much that it really bothers them it is probably better to get a different job and would make them more happy. The public is not easy to deal with and you are right they DO expect people to deal with disrespect, I have faced it a billion times over and that is why I never treat someone working with the public like that. However when it got too much for me I got a job doing something else. My point is why be unhappy??

 

I think this whole debate is pointless. No one is advocating the discrimination of children. People are asking parents of children to be mindful, respectful of other people and take responsibility for their children. That's not much to ask. If that's a massive problem now and we can't even demand that off parents then society has massive problems.

 

You even agree with what we are saying. Most of the people here (myself included) agree with your statement that kids shouldn't be discriminated against, so aren't we all agreeing with eachother?

 

Why should someone have to get another job because of horrible customers? What if they can't get another job for any number of reasons? Why shouldn't the public show respect to people working in their jobs? Why can't people just act like respectable human beings and think about another person for a change?

[OptomisticGirl]

I had that luxury OG because I went out and made it happen, not because it magically appeared, that is what I am saying. People are not always as stuck as they think they are.

 

That same concept can apply to parents who bring their kids into the store. They are the reason the person is unhappy, so why couldn't that peron tell them to take their kid else were? Because that would be discrimination.

[Marah]

I think it's kind of twisted to turn mistreatment of service workers around on themselves and their supposed refusal to create a better, more suitable world for themselves. It's not your place to say what people should do with their lives, I don't get it. Rude children are everywhere, so the problem is not just for those working, but for those simply existing...

[Seraphim]

I think this whole debate is pointless. No one is advocating the discrimination of children. People are asking parents of children to be mindful, respectful of other people and take responsibility of their children. That's not much to ask. If that's a massive problem now and we can't even demand that off parents then society has massive problems.

 

You even agree with what we are saying. Most of the people here (myself included) agree with your statement that kids shouldn't be discriminated against, so aren't we all agreeing with eachother?

 

Why should someone have to get another job because of horrible customers? What if they can't get another job for any number of reasons? Why shouldn't the public show respect to people working in their jobs? Why can't people just act like respectable human beings and think about another person for a change?

 

That would be nice. The thing is too that adults not with child I have found just as rude and nasty. The public IS nasty, and I do not see that changing, unfortunately. ( believe me I know your pain I really do)

 

The only thing the irked me was the business owner who was brought up that wants to ban kids just because they are kids.

[Saffron_]

Libraries in general are not really great places to study anymore. It's unfortunate. Coffee shops seem to be better, there are usually no children.

 

I support a restaurant's right to choose what kind of behavior goes on in their places of business. Some places are just not meant for children's antics. There are plenty of places children are not allowed to go, and no one calls it discrimination.

 

Oh if only Marah! Coffee shops seem to be full of kids now too! The only place I can think of now where I can get away from children is the pub which incidentally is where I quite often go now after work even though I'm not a drinker. My local's fairly quiet with the exception of Thursday (student night), Friday and Saturday night. I can just go in with a friend and sit and have a coke and it's total bliss! Some pubs allow under 18s in (but not to drink) and some don't. I frequent the ones that don't. As I said, I like kids but I'm finding it harder and harder these days to find childfree environments because to ban them would be "discrimination". Real shame that.

[Seraphim]

I think it's kind of twisted to turn mistreatment of service workers around on themselves and their supposed refusal to create a better, more suitable world for themselves. It's not your place to say what people should do with their lives, I don't get it. Rude children are everywhere, so the problem is not just for those working, but for those simply existing...

 

You are not hearing what I said.

[Moontiger]

I think this whole debate is pointless. No one is advocating the discrimination of children. People are asking parents of children to be mindful, respectful of other people and take responsibility of their children. That's not much to ask. If that's a massive problem now and we can't even demand that off parents then society has massive problems.

 

You even agree with what we are saying. Most of the people here (myself included) agree with your statement that kids shouldn't be discriminated against, so aren't we all agreeing with eachother?

 

Why should someone have to get another job because of horrible customers? What if they can't get another job for any number of reasons? Why shouldn't the public show respect to people working in their jobs? Why can't people just act like respectable human beings and think about another person for a change?

 

I think this post sums up my feelings very well. I don't agree with the policy of the restaurant owner banning kids, I do agree with his statement about a child not being the center of THE universe.

 

We all agree children should be expected to behave in public barring a few exceptions such as a medical condition, not being old enough to understand what is going on, or the parents being unable to remove their child (such as on a plane).

 

What I have a problem with is when parents get offended when someone says anything to them about their kid misbehaving. I also think that there are just some place kids should not be such as a fancy restaurant or a theater production that is not aimed at children.

[OptomisticGirl]

I don't think a restaurant should ban children but if he only wants to cater to adults that's his right. as Saffron has pointed out, there are many adults who don't want to sit around kids while thy unwind and that's their right. Why can't they have a place designated for them as kids have places designated for them?