Toddlers in Restaurants

[holdonnow]

No, actually they were 20 somethings trying to act all macho.

 

Many ill-behaved 20-somethings have kids. Since childlessness/childfree are still a minority it is safe to assume that unless told otherwise, you're probably dealing with a parent unless it's college guys or the like - who are in many ways still children themselves.

[Seraphim]

Well everyone has their own opinion and it is ok to disagree. So we shall agree to disagree shall we.

[Seraphim]

And there are large numbers of adults who shamelessly go to restaurants when drunk and loud, or when sober yell into cell phones and curse/yell shamelessly with no regard for people around them.

 

I don't think the standard should be "quiet and obedient" - adults aren't obligated to be quiet - in fact they're supposed to converse during the meal. I do think that children who scream/cry or leave their seat other than to use the bathroom with an adult taking them should not be in the restaurant.

 

I have been at a fancy resturante and had adult groups be laughing and talking so loud you could hear them on the OTHER side of the resturante. I find that incredibly rude too. I do not appreciate that when I have paid money either. The difference I see is that adults should know what is appropriate.

[hexaemeron]

I have been at a fancy resturante and had adult groups be laughing and talking so loud you could hear them on the OTHER side of the resturante. I find that incredibly rude too. I do not appreciate that when I have paid money either. The difference I see is that adults should know what is appropriate.

 

I absolutely agree with this too. Adults are not exempt from this either. I'd complain about them too.

[Seraphim]

I absolutely agree with this too. Adults are not exempt from this either. I'd complain about them too.

 

I will agree with you Hex, I do not want to listen to kids scream to high heavens either. I think though in my own experience I have seen most parents take the kids out of the situation. If a child acts well I have no problem with them being somewhere unless it is like a bar or something like that. I am glad you and others know that there are adults that do not act well sometimes in public either and that is not acceptable either. It should be up to the parents to take the child out of the experience if it is not going well. I know when my son was little I was always careful he was not disturbing other people. Did I try to limit everything we did. No. But if he started to get unruly we went home right away. I think most people can stand a few minutes of noise while someone takes their child out of the resturante. If the parent doesn't then they are the ones being inconsiderate and it is not really the child's fault.

[greywolf]

I don't think anyone thinks it's the child's fault. I've never been upset at a screaming, unruly child. I think most people hold the parents responsible.

[Circe]

Yeah, I'm sorry to say I'm not a fan of this. Obviously, it's better when the child is well-behaved - and I suppose seeing one or two well behaved toddlers at a fine dining restaurant isn't really a problem - but a bevy of them would kind of ruin the atmosphere a little. The atmosphere being either romantic - or just.. it being a special place for adults to unwind and have a good time and .. I think they function as a bit of an escape from every-day stuff. So I think I'd rather not see overly "family/kid" type things at all fine dining restaurants. Maybe if some fine dining restuarants were toddler friendly and other weren't that would be ideal so you could choose the atmosphere you want.

 

I don't really think I will feel differently when we have kids as - we were talking just a few weeks ago about this and decided (contrary to the practice his family has had all his life) that we won't take our kid/s with us when we do the fine dining or even the restaurant thing. Date night is our thing - we would need some time each week that was really pleasant and just for us - so I can't see my view changing.

 

Really if the toddler is well behaved its hardly the end of the world - but my preference would definitely be not to have them at fine dining places. I feel bad about feeling that way but it is unfortunately how I feel.

[Cognitive_Canine]

The difference between a badly behaved child and a badly behaved adult is that adults can be made to leave the restaurant and are easier to deal with. However, children have the excuse of being children. 'kids. Ya know?' seems to be the response to lackluster parenting efforts. People don't feel it's their place to ask a parent to calm their child, a drunk would get a verbal assault or angry looks.

 

Also, a loud patron is at least paying and has more of a right because they are paying.

 

Also, I never blame the kids. My sisters are angels in public places. They aren't special, my mother just has very high standards for behavior (as I'm certain a lot of the replying parents have). Children want to be good and behaving. Being upset, loud, and antsy is stressful and is a reponse, not a way of being.

[Moontiger]

The difference between a badly behaved child and a badly behaved adult is that adults can be made to leave the restaurant and are easier to deal with. However, children have the excuse of being children. 'kids. Ya know?' seems to be the response to lackluster parenting efforts. People don't feel it's their place to ask a parent to calm their child, a drunk would get a verbal assault or angry looks.

Also, a loud patron is at least paying and has more of a right because they are paying.

 

I agree. Any establishment can remove an adult that is being disruptive. A child is a different matter. A think a few other people here have said this but I think its worth repeating: no one is blaming that child. Kids are kids and there isnt anything you can do about it until they grow. I will admit that I am usually very judgmental of parent who take their kids to high end restaurants.

 

I worked at a clothing store where I did have to ask a customer to leave because she was being disruptive. Then, there were kids that would come in and run around, knock things over, scream, etc. There was NOTHING I could do. Parents I think learn to tune out their child and not realize who much they are annoying the people around them.

[Seraphim]

You know what I have yet to see an adult removed from a resturante when they were being inconsiderate. I have yet to see it. So I do not see where all these jerky adults get kicked out.

[rocio]

I'm sure it also depends on the city and the restaurant. My original post was regarding nice restaurants, not super upscale restaurants. And I know I would never take a child to an upscale restaurant in the middle of a large, trendy urban center. Children just generally don't fit in there and you would look really out of place.

 

I'm talking like maybe the Keg. At the Keg near my home (and we live in a young residential area so it's not super trendy) you always see plenty of children in the restaurant. I've never felt like I was raining on some romantic couple's parade.

[Batya33]

Yes the children are being paid for -we always leave a larger tip and often leave far earlier than if we were alone so they get the table back. Unruly children can be removed - the parents can be asked to leave. What about adults who are not paying -someone else is paying for them -why is that any different?

I agree that taking a young child to a formal or fancy restaurant during dinner time especially if they're being kept up late isn't a good idea or appropriate. And yes kids can't help it but their parents can and should help it to avoid bothering others.

[Fudgie]

I've seen people booted out of movie theatres and restaurants/bars before.

 

I think you can throw the parents of the unruly kids out and I wish people would do it more in the formal places. Of course it's not the kid's fault but it's the parents' fault for bringing them there in the first place. There are plenty of family restaurants around and they should go there if they have kids in tow.

 

When I want a romantic dinner, I go to non-child friendly places, that's for sure. Fancy places, with lots of alcohol and no kids menu. Thankfully, I've only seen 1 kid in there 1 time. They really don't belong in formal places.

[dramallama]

If your kid is not able to behave in a restuarant... don't take them! Either learn to teach your kid manners or wait until they're older.

 

Same with cinemas - a three year old doesn't have the attention span or social skills to keep quiet for two hours and it's not "cute" if they ask questions all the time. It's annoying for others who do keep quiet. And if you paid for the movie already, too bad. Don't take them to the movies anymore so you aren't wasting your money, then wait till it comes on DVD so your kid can ask all the questions they want. I'm waiting until my kid is at least six before taking them to the movies but if they talk to much and are unable to be courteous of others then they simply won't go and I will explain why.

 

I think parents need to go back to basics with parenting. It's not abuse to deny your child specific things if they cannot behave. Children only need basic care such as shelter, love, education, food etc. Anything else needs to be earned through either good or excellent behaviour. You don't get something for nothing.

[Seraphim]

Oh you can bet I have paid for my child to be somewhere if I leave a $50 tip or more. So the excuse that they do pay to be there is not valid. Although if I had known what waitresses really think of children I could have saved my $50.

[Alezia]

I don't get the big deal about movies. You bring your toddler to see a Disney movie anyways right? It's a room full of small children, and usally the plots are really easy to follow.

I've brought my son once to the movies and he did ok. He wanted to leave at one point, but he was able to sit down afterwards on my knees and did ok.

 

Upscale restaurants are not like Disney movies on the other hand. I don't think I would bring L to something like the Keg. He wouldn't enjoy it. A on the other hand would have no problem and she is younger. She would be happy to sit quietly near the table if I hold her or draw on paper.

 

A hates TV and movies - so I wouldn't bring her to the movies... I don't really think it's a parent's thing, more of the child's personality.

[dramallama]

I think cinemas and upscale restuarants are more similar than you think. I would expect a child to be able to be as quiet in the cinema as the people around them, and with the same level of conduct as people around them in a restuarant. At the end of the day is a child is talking in a movie non-stop, whether it's a Disney move or not, because a lot of adults enjoy Disney movies too, the child's behaviour is still impacting on other paying people around them. So if they can't behave in a way that you are meant to in a cinema, then perhaps they shouldn't go until they can behave.

[Alezia]

I would most likely expect a child to behave at a cinema like he would to a family restaurant, not an upscale restaurant. The disney movies are there for the children, not the adults even if you like them. The adults have another whole wide selection of movies for their enjoyment. If you don't want to hear other children asking to go to the bathroom during the showing, then don't go to the 2h30pm showing or attend an R-rated movie.

I'm not saying that the child would scream or be annoying outright, but you obviously can't predict any child's behavior no matter what the age.

I think you have to be prepared that you may encounter that type of behavior when you do step into a Disney movie. The parent should obviously bring the child out of the cinema if he is being disrespectful. On the other hand, I don't really expect kids in a highly upscale restaurant. I don't find it's their place.

[dramallama]

Asking to go to the bathroom is fine, but asking questions every minute about what is happening in the movie maybe suggests that the child's attention span is not enough for them to sit quietly through a movie with other paying members of the public. But even if parents know their child is asking questions all the time, they just answer them instead of warning them to be quiet then taking them out of the movie. The parent has already paid for them and their child to see the movie, so they'll be damned if they won't get their money's worth, even if it ruins the experience of other people in the theatre.

[SapphireNoir10]

Depends on the kid. I was placid as heck from pretty much the word go. My parents could take me anywhere even when I was very young, including posh restauraunts, I was a quiet baby and toddler. They never had to take me out etc.

 

BUT my sister, was the opposite, she was a baby that cried a LOT and didnt sleep well, and an energetic naughty toddler.

 

I think its up to the parents to judge if their kids are ok to come, if not, get a babysitter. But the most trouble I get when eating out isnt from kids its from annoying people that drink too much and shout or swear loudly. In restauraunts. Sigh.

[Unknown1607307972]

I personally hate how *some* parents just expect us to tolerate their children misbehaving because "they're just kids". Not everyone loves children, not everyone has to love children. Even many people who have children find those of strangers pretty annoying."A little bit of fuss" may be just a little to you, but a hell of a lot to everyone else who doesn't see through your rose tinted glasses. Nobody should ever just think "they're only kids, these people won't mind if my kid talks all the way through this film/runs under the tables in a restaurant/climbs through the clothing rails in this shop/screams loudly/etc" because you are no psychic and you cannot assume nobody will mind just because you don't. I've seen some really shocking parents in public, I know not all of them are like that thankfully. Some people just seem to believe their child belongs *everywhere* and that people should just deal with it if their kid acts up. Parents who do their best to keep their children well behaved and consider other people around them are great.

 

I personally don't think little kids belong at certain restaurants, however I don't think children should be banned from restarants aimed at adults. I think people who bring children in should be aware that if their children are disrupting other customers then they *will* all be asked to leave. The same should go for any adult who is disrupting other customers. Wanting a relaxed adult environment is totally fair for both childfree people and parents who want a break for an evening and people should respect that.

 

I really feel that a kid would have more fun at a family orientated restaurant though where they may be supplied with crayons, there may be a play area, and they can run around if they want. I sure had fun at places like that as a kid! A parent could also relax and not feel that people are giving them evil looks and complaining about their child. It's not like there aren't any child-friendly places to go.

[Alezia]

Asking to go to the bathroom is fine, but asking questions every minute about what is happening in the movie maybe suggests that the child's attention span is not enough for them to sit quietly through a movie with other paying members of the public. But even if parents know their child is asking questions all the time, they just answer them instead of warning them to be quiet then taking them out of the movie. The parent has already paid for them and their child to see the movie, so they'll be damned if they won't get their money's worth, even if it ruins the experience of other people in the theatre.

 

I totally agree that if they don't take any form of action, that's a completely different story. But you simply need to be ready to hear the 30 seconds of screaming before being dragged out of the cinema if you attend a Disney movie. You may have to try several times with your child at the movies until he is really ready, you won't know. On the other hand, i would still find that somewhat unacceptable at an upscale trendy restaurant.

[Fudgie]

I can agree with the Disney movie thing. I take to my sister to lots of Disney movies and there are always obnoxious kids. Am I annoyed? Yeah, but I realize that it's a Disney movie. It comes with the territory.

 

But you can bet if I go to see a PG-13/R rated movie and there are obnoxious little kids in there, yeah, there are going to be problems.

 

I don't like kids. At all. This is why I don't go to family restaurants and other child-friendly places. I'd be dumb to go there and expect well-behaved kids so I just don't go! When I go out, it's normally to a formal place because I like the food a lot more. I don't think it's a lot to ask that people just don't bring their kids there. It's supposed to be a subtle, romantic atmosphere, not a playground or "for families".

 

Believe it or not, MOST places are child-friendly. Not every place has to be, or should be. I don't think I should have to subjected to screaming children everytime I go out to eat at a formal place.

[rocio]

There are child-friendly places to go but the food generally sucks. For the most part, I've felt like I've wasted my money. I could have made better food at home for a lot less money.

 

I've always been in the habit of enjoying dinner with loved ones. Growing up, we always ate good food and as teenagers we could still be sitting at the dinner table an hour after we finished eating. I see it as a daily celebration of life and love. I wouldn't enjoy it if I were eating as some loud, dirty family restaurant with sub-standard food.

 

For the most part, we eat at home. But if we feel like having a treat, we prefer to go to decent restaurants where we can get good food and good service with a nice ambience. Given that our child isn't disrupting anyone, I don't see why we would give that lifestyle up. Yes, we do date nights. But there are other nights were we feel like celebrating and enjoying the evening together as a family.

 

I've never had dirty looks or negative stares or comments and I just wouldn't allow her to be disruptive. There was a period where we stuck to family restaurants because it would have been more than we could expect of her.

 

The last time we went to the Keg, there was a couple at the next table with two kids. The kids were barely noticeable and very well behaved. There was an older couple at the table behind them, and they kept staring at and flirting with my daughter. As we were leaving, they introduced themselves and said they just couldn't help but to say 'hi' to my daughter. The waitress that night chuckled at the conversation I was having with my daughter over french fries (negotiating who gets to eat the long ones and who gets the short ones) and laughed at my daughter when she said, "pardon me? yes, more butter please if you don't mind..."

 

It was hardly an awkward night filled with bratty, screaming children and evil stares.

[Moontiger]

I have seen obnoxious adults throw out of several places. My friends and I went to a restaurant, at the table next to use was a group of guys that were consuming way to much alcohol and they said several homophobic words to their waiter. The waiter left and got a manager who told them they needed to pay their bill and leave. I was shopping and there was a group of rowdy girls who were disturbing other, they were asked to leave, at my current work place the other day am man was yelling and threating people, he was thrown out.

 

I think people just need to start speaking up when another person is disrupting them in a public place. Someone here said they have never seen a misbehaving adult thrown out of an establishment. Well, next time say something!

 

Kids simple do not belong in certain places. I just read a book called "Waiters Rant" written by a man who worked as a waiter at a high end restaurant for years, he talks about why kids simple should not be in certain restaurants. Some parent are very good about controlling their child, but, from what I have seen in public must just shrug their shoulders and let the child make everyone else miserably while they tune out the screaming, running around, etc.