Toddlers in Restaurants

[velvette]

when I was a kid we went out all the time, but only because my parents could afford a live-in maid. if I ever got bored she'd take me outside for walks. and often my parents would dine out with other parents, so us kids would play together (under the watch of a maid or two, who would look after us). also, we would often dine at REALLY nice places where you could rent individual rooms, and that's where we'd stay. I've never had a problem with that sort of scenario.

 

however I'm really against screaming kids (I never ever screamed as a kid! so I know there are such things as kids that don't scream, though unfortunately the real attention-getters ARE the screamers, and that's what tends to stick in people's mind regarding their opinion of kids and public spaces) at restaurants, movies (even animated films, yes! I paid just the same to enjoy this film as that, and expect a quiet environment to enjoy the film. if I see too many kids lining up for a film, I will often just not go that day), etc. the only places I'll excuse screaming kids DESPITE having to endure their wailing is on a plane, bus, other public transport, or fast food restaurants. otherwise, I blame the parents for not understanding or being able to control their kid.

 

if a kid doesn't scream I won't even notice, so I couldn't care less. otherwise, I am just as intolerant of a misbehaving kid as a misbehaving adult. I do not lend them any leniency, though will put blame on their parents more than them.

[blondie03]

I do think some upscale restaurants are not for kids, as it kind of ruins the atmosphere. When I go out to a nice restaurant, I don't want to notice the kids around me. I want to be in an adult only area, even if the kids are behaved. I used to baby sit a lot, so when I went out to eat, I did not want to see children. It didn't matter if they were behaved or not, I wanted to get away from it all. I look at going out to dinner as an "escape" and wouldn't want to have a child near me playing with toys. Not everyone wants to see other people's children, so I think it would be best to take the kids to a family friendly place. My fiance and I were at an upscale Italian restaurant the other day and it was a very nice romantic place, minus the 3 year old doodling on paper a couple tables over. Ruined the dinner atmosphere for me.

[Fudgie]

The answer is pretty simple:

 

1) get a sitter or 2) go elsewhere or 3) stay at home.

 

I don't care how well-behaved the kids are, they just don't belong in a formal place. Period. Sometimes, you can't have it all. If you want to enjoy it, be polite to other people and leave the tykes at home.

 

When they are older, then they can enjoy better food at formal places. They aren't going to shrivel up and be uncultured if they don't get to go to fancy places before the age of 7.

[Alezia]

I don't think M falls into the toddler category anymore though, she's almost 4. There is a huge maturity jump I've noticed in children when they hit close to the age of 3. The are able to resist their impulses, have a bigger attention span etc... It's a normal step in growing up and is a better time to introduce them to upscale restaurants as opposed as in toddlerhood. It's almost inhumane to expect your toddler to behave perfectly since physically and pscyhologically, they don't hit those milestones until 3.

 

I still don't think I would bring my kids to an upscale restaurants, not yet. Then again I also don't know that lifestyle since my parents never brought me to good restaurants and P doesn't like paying a lot of money for food. When we used to date pre-kids we would go to the sitdown world-cuisine type restaurants in the market that are delicious but that are not fancy - ex: you can get the equivalent of a 'home in another country's' cooked meal for 10$. I've had one bf bring me probably 2-3 times to nicer restaurants, so I usually associate them more with sexual/romantic settings rather than family-settings. I have memories of flirting and the such at those types of places so they don't scream out place you want to bring your kid to me.

[petite]

Formal restaurants should not be for children under 8 and I'm an aunt, 'm a friend of people who have children and I plan on having kids, but there is absolutely no reason why toddlers should be at a formal restaurant. Adults usually want to get away and enjoy their evening without the kids so the least they want is somebody's child making a nuisance. I've been to formal restaurants so many times having business dinners and then you see a child running around or touching the glassware or you with their little fingers. Fine dinning wont make them anymore cultured if they eat as toddlers at restaurants they really shouldn't be at, particularly past bed time and seriously what does a 3-4 year old know about "cheap" vs "expensive food"? It's not like they sit there and enjoy it saying they taste particular herbs and spices and whatnot.

[rocio]

Not everyone wants to see other people's children, so I think it would be best to take the kids to a family friendly place. My fiance and I were at an upscale Italian restaurant the other day and it was a very nice romantic place, minus the 3 year old doodling on paper a couple tables over. Ruined the dinner atmosphere for me.

 

This one I can't really argue with. If the very sight of children ruins the whole experience for you, then maybe you should sit on the lounge side of the restaurant? Unless you live in an area and go to the kinds of restaurants where it's rare to see children. Then I guess I could see how one or two children in the entire establishment could bother you. In that case, you went there specifically expecting not to see children. In the nicer restaurants in my area (again, I live in a part of town with lots of young families, and it's not exactly the most trendy city) at least half of the tables DO have kids. So it had never occurred to me that people might be expecting to go there and NOT see kids.

[blondie03]

This one I can't really argue with. If the very sight of children ruins the whole experience for you, then maybe you should sit on the lounge side of the restaurant? Unless you live in an area and go to the kinds of restaurants where it's rare to see children. Then I guess I could see how one or two children in the entire establishment could bother you. In that case, you went there specifically expecting not to see children. In the nicer restaurants in my area (again, I live in a part of town with lots of young families, and it's not exactly the most trendy city) at least half of the tables DO have kids. So it had never occurred to me that people might be expecting to go there and NOT see kids.

 

I go to certain restaurants that are not kid friendly and do not want to see kids there, but occasionally do because the parents drag their kids along. Now, if the place had a lot of children, it would be a different story, but I go there to escape and not deal with kids. I work in a nursery, dealing with kids all the time, so I don't want to be around them when I am out to eat. It's my time to relax and escape. I purposely go to these places to avoid seeing kids, but then you get those parents that bring their kids and then complain that the place doesn't offer high chairs. Really? that's a hint. Kids are not welcome there. Why would you want to buy a 15 dollar plate for your child anyways? Take the kid to a place where they will enjoy the food and atmosphere and not be told to be quiet all the time.

[rocio]

I know how hard it is to work in a nursery. I worked in one through my first year of university, taking night classes, and it was one of the hardest jobs... I can certainly understand why you don't want to see kids outside of work.

[BellaDonna]

My son is a child who behaves HORRIBLY in restaurants. The last time we attempted to take him he threw the crayons that came with the kid's menu. disappeared under the table, and also yelled. Very few toddlers have the attention span to sit still for that length of time. I found it SO much easier to take him out back when he was a baby and could still fit in a high chair (confined lol) and was eager to please and picking up finger foods. Toddler stage-=Hell. lol

 

It is so embarassing when they act up in restaurants and the smart toddlers know you that you are embarssed when they do it and it fuels them. In my son's case it is very purposeful. Out of respect for fellow diners, I gve my son 5 minutes- if he doesn't listen we take him right out of the restaurant and go home and he has to be in time out. He's not going to rule the experience for us and the other diners. I don't care where we are in the meal either- we just wrap it and leave. He was such a terror the last time I decided I am not taking him to another restaurant for a year. The only place I will take him will be food-courts, pizza places, etc....places that you can eat in that you don't have to be waited on, and that I have more flexibility to discipline him in without being disruptive.

 

Usually people in nearby tables at restaurants have been nothing but nice and understanding when my son decides to be a brat. They see my husband take my son out and me waiting to get things wrapped or for the bill, etc. and they make small talk "my son used to be the same way" or "it gets better dear", or "toddlers are really a challenge" etc. They are probably just GRATEFUL that he is leaving!!! LOL

 

Even if he were well-behaved I would only take him to "family restaurants" and not fine dining restaurants. On the nights my husband and I go out alone, I get annoyed when I see other kids in fine dining restaurants- for just one night I want a dinner without hearing any child's whiney voice lol. Just one night. lol

 

I love children but everyone needs a break some time or another.

[sophie274]

Very honestly, with everyone talking about parents being "entitled" to think they can bring their children to restaurants, I think it's just as "entitled" to expect that perfectly behaved children STILL not go to "fine dining" (what does that mean? are we talking tablecloths? $20 entrees? Michelin stars?) restaurants. If a child is very well-behaved then I really do not see any rationale for not them not being appropriate or allowed in any kind of establishment.

 

I don't have any children nor am I very close with anyone who does so this is not personal for me ... but to me simply not wanting to see a child or see a child's voice at dinner is, well, it is what it is but expecting that others should cater to that seems ridiculous. What if I don't want to see ugly people when I go out to eat? What if I don't want old people at the hip restaurant I'm going to? Just the fact that seeing a child in the same room could ruin someone's dinner ... it baffles me a bit but even if true, doesn't mean it's a reasonable expectation.

 

I was actually thinking about this thread last night and asked my mother at what age I could sit quietly in a restaurant, order off of a menu (not necessarily read it lol) and eat with silverware properly, and she said at least at 3 years old. My parents didn't take me to the Ritz when I was three (or ever, lol), but yes I remember going to restaurants very young and I loved it. I found it personally insulting (not ACTUALLY) for waiters to offer me the kids menu and could certainly tell how good a yummy dish was at 3 - who says three and four year olds are only interested in French fries? I know when my parents took me out I was never allowed to do anything else at the table but eat and talk, certainly no playing or drawing or reading at the table, definitely never allowed to speak loudly or run around - my parents ran a very tight ship in that regard and were extremely strict about behavior in public. Then again, eating and talking are two of my biggest interests now ( and already were then I guess.

 

Yes, I think many children at 3-4-5 cannot behave well in a restaurant, can't sit still, can't eat the food, etc and they should not be brought there. But if the child can and does behave perfectly well, I sort of think ... it's not the child's problem you can't bear to see a child in a restaurant while you're on a date. Them simply being there could never be inappropriate or offensive to me. A restaurant is a place for relaxation and enjoyment of good food and conversation - if the child can enjoy those, then to me he/she is fine to be in the restaurant. Different story than a bar where the purpose is to drink and a child cannot drink.

[Batya33]

I think it's unreasonable to go out in public, anywhere, and expect never to see a child unless the establishment prohibits people under 18. Interestingly most people are focusing on fancy/formal restaurants at night - I can also see where it could be disruptive at other times of the day and am surprised the focus is so heavily on the evenings.

[BellaDonna]

Them simply being there could never be inappropriate or offensive to me. A restaurant is a place for relaxation and enjoyment of good food and conversation - if the child can enjoy those, then to me he/she is fine to be in the restaurant. Different story than a bar where the purpose is to drink and a child cannot drink.

 

 

That actually reminds me:

One thing my husband and I have done if there is a lot of little ones in a fine dining restaurant is to have dinner at the bar. Many of the restaurants will serve a full menu at the bar, especially if they are crowded and there is a wait for tables. You won't find a 3 year-old sitting at the bar (HOPEFULLY!!! Well maybe if Walmart had a bar you would) and a few drinks also helps drown-out background noises in general. lol -Just a tip to anyone wanting to avoid them at all costs. I have nights like that even though I have one of my own. Sometimes you just want an adult night.

[Sanesoul]

My daughter has always been stellar in restaurants. She's a quiet kid by nature and has never had a problem entertaining herself. For some kids, that's just their personality, and they shouldn't be banned from nice restaurants simply because of their age. The planet is full of humans, big and small, young and old. There are obviously places that certain groups are not allowed to go, but fancy restaurants shouldn't be one of them.

 

And I have to agree, if just seeing or hearing a child's voice is disruptive to you, then you should stay home because they're everywhere.

[sidehop]

The first time we went out when our daughter was a month old to the local Chinese restaurant, she was sleeping the entire time. We were taking turns rocking her in the car seat. Did we jinx ourselves after that though. We were like "that was awesome! We can do this again!" Ya right, the second time, we ate couple bites and had to go home image removed

[Seraphim]

Thank you, Sophie. I too think that mere presence of a person somewhere being annoying is ridiculous. Everyone has to live in society and get along.

 

I too think children know good food from crappy food unless crappy food is all they are used to. I do not understand why some people called it "entitlement" either and act like you are bringing a dog into the resturante. Children are human beings and entitled to the same rights as everyone else. And you are right what if there are some people who do not to see other groups in public establishments either. Oh yes, they call that "prejudice" but funny when it is children it is not prejudice some how. I will never never understand that, not ever.

[Fudgie]

I can understand if the kid is well-behaved. However, many kids aren't. Many things can trigger a fit in toddlers. Many parents bring their kids to fine dining places saying "Oh he's such an angel at home, he'll be good here"...sometimes he is, sometimes he isn't.

 

It's the parents who can't handle/judge their child's behavior properly that ruin for the others. But that's how it is, I guess. I'd rather just not see them at all then risk going some place and having to deal with some screaming kid all the time.

 

That being said, if a childfree restaurant opened near me (no high chairs, no kid menu, known to discourage kids), I would frequent that exclusively as I think we need many more of those around. Most places ARE family-friendly. Parents can cry all they want but the truth is, people like me are in the minority. It would be nice to go some place without having kids shoved in your face all the time. They aren't awesome for everyone.

[rocio]

Don't you have lounges in your area that serve good quality food in an adults-only environment?

[Fudgie]

No, none at all.

 

I'm not in a major metro city so it's pretty much assumed that EVERYONE here has tons of kids so it's only family restaurants. There's a reason why I never go out when I'm at college in the town here.

 

I would love to have a choice of some adult-only restaurants that have good food, no to minimal kids present, and aren't just smokey bars. Those are pretty nasty.

 

When you consider the fact that only about 12-15% of women (don't know about men) NEVER have children, then people like me are really in the minority. And I don't think I should have to be subjected to hordes of misbehaving kids whenever I want to go out because there are no places for me to go. And even when there are "adult only" places, you still get those self-righteous parents who think they need to take their kids inside.

 

I really don't get it.

[Unknown1607307972]

Indeed, I am childfree too and I find that the world caters better to families than childfree people.

 

I am not saying children are evil or that they should be banished from ever stepping outside the house. I love the children who are in my family just like any other relative. I just think that people need to realise that not everyone finds it cute when your kid is climbing all over the place or shouting and that people shouldn't have to deal with *your* children misbehaving because "oh they're just being kids".

[rocio]

You can smoke in bars there? I thought that had pretty much been banned in most developed countries!

[Fudgie]

I think it's unreasonable to go out in public, anywhere, and expect never to see a child unless the establishment prohibits people under 18. Interestingly most people are focusing on fancy/formal restaurants at night - I can also see where it could be disruptive at other times of the day and am surprised the focus is so heavily on the evenings.

 

Well, my point is, I would like to see more establishments that are 18+ that AREN'T cruddy bars.

 

Children are disruptive at all times during the day. I tolerate it. Deep down I don't like it, but I tolerate it or I just avoid places. But I don't think it's terribly too much to ask that there be some 18+ places that aren't crappy bars for adults to go to without having kids in there. Most restaurants are pretty child-friendly. I'm just tired of people screaming "discrimination" because there are a couple places that they shouldn't bring their kids into.

 

You can smoke in bars there? I thought that had pretty much been banned in most developed countries!

 

There are some smoking bars here in PA.

[law1204]

I fail to see how someone can call it "prejudice" to not like babies. If someone doesn't like babies or doesn't want to be around babies, it's probably because they don't like noise, chaos, and foul odors, not because it's inherent prejudice for prejudice sake. It's a distaste for behavior. I suppose you can call fouling on onself an inherent trait when you are a baby, but let's not take it too far. I personally dislike children because I dislike how they smell and how they act. Oh well.

 

That said, if I want to avoid children in restaurants, I stick with sushi places - these days, sushi isn't the cheapest thing you can buy if you go to an upscale sushi place, and MOST parents aren't going to try to feed their babies sushi. I have never seen a sushi place with a kid menu.

[law1204]

I too think that mere presence of a person somewhere being annoying is ridiculous.

 

Welllll, that all depends. I used to work with a guy who never took a shower. I daresay most people find Eau de Feet And Sour Milk quite annoying. Nothing is absolute.

 

I don't understand why, when someone brings up ill-behaved children in restaurants, parents will respond with "Well, I saw some adults acting badly too!" Isn't bringing a baby to an upscale establishment just another permutation of adults behaving badly in public?

[OptomisticGirl]

I love kids and I don't think they should be bought into a resturant simply because the parents 'can' do so. The fact of the matter is when you become a parent (most of the time choosing to) you give up certain liberities you had before, and one of those is usually fine dining on the fly. You can tell when a resturant is catering to children and when it's not. For me, even being someone who loves children, I can not stand it when a parent sits there (even in a child friendly resturant) and lets their children pitch fits, scream, and cry.

[Fudgie]

OG, you are awesome. And I agree.