LostinVan

Wow. Weird day for sure. First, thanks to all of you for keeping me in your thoughts today. It was a tough day. Listening to the CD my Mom left for me was tough. She picked out a song that she said was "poignant" to how she felt about me, and then there was some audio from her. A voice from beyond the grave. Very very tough. Before the ex and I listened to the CD... we had about an hour's chat. The ex's back was acting up (she was in a car crash a dozen years ago, did some permanent damage to parts of her back). She was complaining that it had been really bad for a week or so. I let her know a secret... for years and years, while she was sleeping (I'd often go to bed later than her), I would massage her back while she was sleeping.. every two or three days. She was amazed that this went on for years, and said "that's probably why my back is so bad right now". Got LOTS of mixed signals today. I broke two rules... I said "I love you" during the chat. Then, for the first time since the break, kissed her on the lips - very light, very nice. I hope. Did this after the range of mixed signals. At times I get a sense that she is thinking she may have made a mistake, but doesn't want to admit it. At other times, I got a sense of "I've moved on". Can't put it into words... just a feeling. She did say something notable - two things. 1. She says that for the last few weeks, she's having trouble sorting thoughts out, things in her brain. She doesn't know how to deal with it. 2. She said about the relationship (she brought it up)... and posibility of a future together... "I don't know if I can trust that we won't go back to the way things were". I guess that's hopeful. The I love you from me came out during a tender moment where she was hugging me because she was sad. I couldn't help it. I covered a bit by saying "I didn't mean I'm in love with you - just that I know the love I have for you will be with me for ever, and it's getting warm again." She said "I have deep love for you too". The kiss. Sigh. I said I broke a rule by saying I love you. She was looking at me with dough eyes after talking about her strained relationship with her Mom. I said "I want to break another rule..." put my thumb on her chin, moved forward and gave a light kiss on the lips. She didn't pull back. Later, after the CD... and my sobbing. She kissed me on the lips again.. .very light, but her doing. Most likely what she thought I would most like at that moment. Weird day. 90% of the day, thinking about my Mom. I can't believe she's gone still. It's killing me. 10% thinking about the ex. 0% work done today (yes, it's good friday, but I had work to do LostinVan.

Here's part of the problem... my entire family is 4000 miles away My ex is my only local "family"... or was up until a month and some change ago... LostinVan

Friday (in a few minutes) is the 1 month anniversary of my Mom's passing. Some background: - My ex and my Mom were very close. - My ex flew accross the country to be with me and family during the wake and funeral (after we broke up) - My ex often sees me sad or crying because of my Mom, offers comfort (though hasn't happened for about 8 days now). Tomorrow, I'm going to listen to a special CD my Mom had prepared for her sons to hear after she passed. My siblings have already heard it - I haven't yet. There's also a letter she wanted me to read (my Mom was a planner like that). When I first flew back home from the funeral, I asked my ex to "be with me when I listen to the CD and read the letter". My ex agreed. A couple of weeks ago, we decided to do it on the one month anniversary. But I'm in the midst of trying to play it cool and aloof with the ex. For the past four days or so, I've been doing okay at it. So question... how should I handle tomorrow? Listen, read, have a good cry, then tell the ex thanks, and find something else to do? I admit I'm not really willing to play any kind of "game" for such a sombre event; but I love the ex and want a life with her. I really, really don't know what to do. Help with some ideas! LostinVan

I don't agree with Dealingwithit's advice at all. Any relationship founded on true love is worth saving. Not at all costs, but at most costs. You want the relationship. Your ex wants the relationship. Just work individually on the problems you've already identified (and the ones you may identify soon), and I'm betting things will get back on track if you take care of yourself first. LostinVan.

I agree with GeeCee. You gotta get a grip and take stock. I'm about to say something harsh, but please take it for what its worth - and as advice. You're fighting major insecurity issues within yourself, and that's your first battle right there. Work on yourself. Stop relying constantly on any kind of self-esteem boost or ego massage from "having a boyfriend"... work on feeling good about yourself and your sitch. You're in a very lucky place, but you can't see light for day. You have an ex who wants to work things out. You have an ex who wants to be with you. But he's sending you messages - you have to be happy with yourself. Make that mission #1. Everything else sounds like it will fall into place if you can make progress on the biggest problem. LostinVan.

So, today was a day of mixed signals. I'm so bloody confused. The good: - turns out my ex didn't drop by or call yesterday because she had a bad cold, and said she couldn't get out of bed. (well, not good - I don't want her sick, but good in that she gave a valid reason for not coming by or calling) The bad: - while talking, she let slip that she went a few places yesterday... supposedly while she was in bed sick (nothing much - store, mall briefly). Thought: I guess when we don't know what's going on, our mind runs to the worst possible conclusion (I thought she was playing games). But... oh well. The good: We had to do some work on my car today, so she drove in her car to the service station, then she drove me back home. On the way, we got groceries, and she asked if we could "stop by her place" quick to drop off hers. I'm confused... don't you live like, far away, with someone you won't tell me about? But I say "uh, isn't it far away and a secret?" She says "no, I'm living in my __________ (relative)'s condo now while she's away - I moved on Saturday". So she proceeds to a) show me where she's living, and b) invite me up. The bad (or is it good): I say "probably not a good idea - I'll hang out here...." (I wimped out, stayed down in the car). She wasn't happy. Thoughts. Haven't got a frikkin clue. The confuse me, please: She started talking about plans for Easter, how she may go here, may go there (in the past, her and I always did Easter dinner for her family). Looking forward to it. The bad: She goes "so, what are you doing for Easter dinner". Me "nothing planned" (thinking she was giving me an "in" to an invite for dinner). She doesn't address what I said, but instead starts talking about something else. It's like she didn't even hear my response. Thoughts: Was she brain dead for 30 seconds, or what? The good: She defended me to her Mom today (her Mom never liked me much. Don't bother me though because her Mom doesn't like anyone much). She even told her Mom to flip off (replace the li with uc). literally. The bad Her mom was on her case because Mom thinks I should be already moved out of the house. Her Mom helped my ex with her portion of the downpayment, and her Mom sees this as her (Mom's) property. The ex did get in again the fact that I had said previously I would be the one to move out if we broke up... Thoughts: but that was if I was the one who left the relationship. The game's turned a bit, and right now I'm feeling like squatting rights may be taking place. So while the ex defended me to her Mom, she did manage to get in reminders "so, uh, when are you moving out so I can move back in" (also stressing she would not move back in until I was gone). The good: - she came downstairs after her teaching was done, and she did her usual night computer stuff (checking email, probably logging onto her dating web site account), came over to me, gave me a hug and a kiss on the head as I was watching TV. I said "hey, what's that for". She said "it's for being you, silly!" The bad: - thinking we were in a good vibe, I asked her to stay for a bit to watch something on the telly. She was nice, but adamant about wanting to leave. Thoughts: dunno what to think. I know I broke one of Beec' rules though LostinVan

Hi Folks. Good to see you back Strong1, I read about your trip and such, sounds like you had a great time. Just a brief update. First, It was one month ago today that I came home in the evening to a note on the stove, and my partner gone So it hasn't been a good day. Second, I haven't seen the ex in three days now: Friday, I left the house before she came over. I didn't get back till 10pm. I went to the office for a bit, then had coffee with the "date" from Wednesday. Felt like crap when I got home. Walked the dog, went to sleep. Saturday, didn't see the ex. She was over in the AM for an hour, and took off quick. I actually slept in a bit, and woke to the sound of her closing the door downstairs. Went to a party I was invited to. Didn't have much a good time. Most of the crowd was younger (more my "date"s age, mid, late 20s). Too much smoking joints and stuff (I don't have a problem with marijuana - I just don't like the smell or do it myself). Got home at 1am. Felt like crap. Went to sleep. The ex said "I might drop by Sunday". I said "great! Just give me a call first to let me know if you are". She said "oh, you mean in case you have guests?" I said "no, just as a courtesy, and I'll make sure I'm here". We also had a bizarre email exchange on Thursday and Friday... but I don't feel comfortable reprinting what she wrote. The gist is, I said I was feeling dead inside at times. She responded saying yes, I feel that way too these days... and I also felt that way for the last few years, especially after our fights. So, she didn't call today or drop by. Once again, I feel extremely depressed and crappy. I made the mistake of listening to the lyrics for a Dido song that were too damned close to my sitch for comfort. Plus I modified the lyrics quite a bit to totally match my sitch. Debating if I should let the ex see it at some point (definitely not now though). Here it is. I know you think that I shouldn't still love you, Or that I should tell you that. But if I didn't say it, well I'm still feeling it And where's the sense in that? I promise I'm not trying to make your life harder Or return to where we were. That life is a life that has to be ended The past cannot forget the error. I will go down with this ship And I won't put my hands up and surrender There will be no white flag above my door I'm in love and always will be I know I left too much mess and destruction to come back to that life again And it seems I caused nothing but trouble I understand if you can't express love to me again And if you live by the rules of "it's over" then I'm sure that that makes sense But inside of me, I feel a new beginning A new me, something that's heaven sent. I will go down with this ship And I won't put my hands up and surrender There will be no white flag above my door I'm in love and always will be And when we meet, which I'm sure we will All that was there, will be there still. For you, I'll let it pass and hold my tongue. And for your comfort sake, you'll think that I've moved on.... For the two of us, I will suffer the pain The longing, the tears, the love barred. If that's what it takes to make up the years You were the one who tried so hard. I will go down with this ship And I won't put my hands up and surrender There will be no white flag above my door I'm in love and always will be LostinVan.

Ah cripes You had sex again with him, didn't ya... LostinVan

Small addendum. I had a dream Thursday night that my ex was dating one of the lusers from the web dating site, and the guy was rough with her. I was in a glass box, and couldn't go to defend her or beat the guy off. I was helpless. So yesterday afternoon, I said something poignant to her. "I know you're dating again, you've told me. I want you to know something. I am worried, and I hope that you are taking care of yourself and being careful with who you choose to go out with. There's a lot of creeps out there, and well, if friends set you up on a date with mutual friends, that's one thing... (left the interent dating thing unsaid). "I just want you to know something. If you ever feel uncomfortable, or need help, or god forbid, something worse happens, please know that I can be the first person you call. I won't judge, I won't guilt trip. I'll just help. I can't say I'm happy you're dating. In fact, I don't like it one bit. But I accept it. My concerns aren't important. All I care about at the moment is your safety and the thought of anything happening to you drives me bonkers". She had a tender look, seemed reassured, and said "okay" (actually a few more words, but the gist was okay). Then I told her I had to get back to work, but was glad I was able to tell her this. To this day, she sees me as "her protector"... (she told me that only a few days ago, and said it was a quality she liked). I probably broke all the rules but I had to say it. LostinVan.

Shawn... Guy, I don't know what to say. Both you and I have similar situations... long time relationships (11 years vs 9 years); we both got "lazy" in our relationships. The ex is seeing someone else. Dogs are involved . You also said to her via email what I'm dying to say to my ex. But the difference here is, she's said "she's unsure". Mine has not said this. Mine has said "definitely over" and as recently as last weekend reiterated that. My advice... hold on to that. Hold on to it. She gave you an opening that my ex hasn't even started to give... "prove to me you've changed" she said. Guy, don't let her see this last letter. Not yet. You have a hope you cannot see, but one that I see clearly. She's unsure. She's given you an opening. It takes time. I'm impatient. You were impatient (you said you were gaining patience). Show some now. Think about your game, and change it. If it isn't working for you (and btw, I think it IS), then modify it to something you're more comfortable with, but now is the time to show your patience, to give more months for the possibility of an entire life together. Today, I asked my ex "how are you doing". She gave me a response similar to one she's given for the last few days... "feeling unsettled, not at ease" she said today (previous days "not sure, not feeling right...". I think I just realised at this moment that may be a tiny opening for me. My ex is seeing others. My ex is dating other guys. She's secretive about it. But maybe... just maybe... she's missing something. We're coming up on a month since she wrote me a letter, left it in the kitchen, and moved out. It's not that long in the scheme of things, but maybe she's having second thoughts. That's *all* I have to hold on to right now. You, dude... you have two key things. 1) She's not sure of things (meaning she doesn't want to totally give up the possibility yet), and 2) she's blatently told you "prove you're changing". That's a positive. Make use of it. Brighter days ahead... LostinVan.

Hi Folks. Thanks for the positive reinforcement, it is truly appreciated. But I'm having one of those days where I just don't think I can handle things anymore. She's regularly talking to the new guy (her cell kept ringing, and she would shut the door to her small office, a sure sign - she never does that). I want to do all the things Beec and others suggest because the rational part of me says it makes sense. But a big part of the problem is, a lot of things I'm being coached on doing is *exactly* what I did during our relationship... always gave her nibbles, never more than that. I was in control. I was the one who walked away. I was the distant, aloof one. So I'm deathly afraid to venture into this territory of remove her comfort zone, etc etc - even if I use different methods as compared to the past (ie, be more supportive, be friendly, handle the "I gotta go" part differently, etc). Sorry guys and gals. Bad night, bad day. Nothing particularly bad happened and the ex was very friendly today. Just inside, I feel dead. I got a lot to think about tonight. LostinVan.

What, are you saying the picture on your posts (your avatar) isn't exactly how you look? Damn. I look exactly like my avatar LostinVan

GeeCee, once again thanks... it helps to get a female perspective, and I admit that these grieving emotions are somewhat new territory for me. When the ex lost her Dad several years back, I didn't grieve as much as feel the hurt for my ex; and I wanted to provide comfort. Short morning update... again, I can't read this one at all: Ex showed up while I was still sleeping (8:45am). She didn't tell me she'd be by so early. But it is "bills" day, and she's still taking care of the accounting for the household and company bills. I climb out of bed at 9, take (another) shower, a quik one, do the ole SSS (think body maintenance in the bathroom), then after I come out (dressed, which I used to never do), I say goodmorning, but she's a bit distant. I pulled a big april fools' joke today on colleagues, so I checked to see how it was going (it's goin' good)... and I decided to tell her about it because I know she would get a kick out of it. Called her down, showed her, she found it extremely funny. Then she goes into the kitchen and says "so, you had company last night?" I say "uh, yeah, a friend was over for a couple of hours..." she goes "a friend with lipstick!" and I can't figure it out... but look, and one of the port glasses had lipstick on it, and I didn't clean up last night (didn't leave it out on purpose! At least not consciously... plus I never think about these things! Her reaction was strange. I'd say "aloof, I don't care, I'm trying to project I don't care". If you recall her past statements about jealousy - she claims she does not get jealous. She said to me a week ago this: "if I came home, say five years ago, and found you in bed with another woman, I'd shrug, then go and watch TV or something". But one thing she is... she's curious george (a nickname I have for her). Big time. I finished off my contact with her this morning by being really nervous (couldn't help it), and said "nothing went on, _________". She smiled, told me something funny, then went off to continue her work. 10 mins later, she was out the door... "be back at 2!". So... given her past comments about jealousy, given that's she curious, I can't read her reaction at all. I did get a sense her indifference was slightly forced. I wonder though... she knows she's been on an internet dating / sex board since before we broke up, and has been in a way "cheating" on me since that time. And within days, she was dating. Is she balancing that? Somehow, I doubt it. She tends to see only black and white. LostinVan.

Beec refers to himself in the third person because he's cool! LostinVan needs to start referring to himself in third person as well. I may boost LostinVan's slightly fragile ego LostinVan says this... he thinks that what the guy did was a bit shallow, but LostinVan doesn't think your ex is reading this site. If he was, he'd be playing a different game. Based on all your previous posts about the ex (LostinVan hopes he isn't confusing your ex with Strong1's ex), this seems a pattern in your ex. Further, LostinVan thinks the initial text you sent was good, and he agrees with Beec - don't send a followup. You're kind of in a no-contact zone next - see what the ex does next, at least for the next few days. Now LostinVan has some words for you GeeCee. Lostin... ah damnit, can't do it anymore... I know this is a major blow and disapointment to you, and when I read your posts this morning, my heart went out to you in a big way. You had your hopes up for this, we all thought it was a sure thing, and I know most following this thread were "pullin'" for ya and hoping for the best. So, a couple of notes... easier said than done stuff (lordy I know). Pinning ones hopes so much on a solitary event is bad. We all talk about the healing process, and one big part of it, I think, is to not get so tied up and counting on one solitary event from the ex. We just set ourselves up for a huge fall if it doesn't go as we imagine, and an even bigger fall if the event doesn't take place. If we are truly healing and becoming better for *ourselves*, this is something all of us need to do. Doesn't mean giving up on reconcilliation; it just means we have to "not sweat the small things". Again, I know its easier said than done. LostinVan

Yeah, in fact, this is why I'm having difficulty with the whole "don't be needy, emotional thing during a break up, attempt at reconcilliation" thing... During our relationship, I was a weird one. I'd go to movies... and get real emotional inside... even movies you wouldn't think it would happen. Take for instance Lord of the Rings, Return of the King. When they had the climatic scene where the hobbits bow, and the king says "you bow to no one" and they all bow, inside I welled up, wanted to cry. But outside, being as I was "with ma wimman", I held it back and tried to disguise it. In our relationship, I don't think she's seen me cry more than 3 or 4 times in 11+ years. In the last three weeks or so, she's seen it dozens of times, 95% of the time it's been the loss of my Mom that triggered it. She's seen me do it in the church service, standing over the casket, seeing close relatives for the first time in 15 years, and of course, back here at home. And what I can't balance is, is this a good thing or not? One side says "don't be needy, don't be clingy, don't be sad or emotionally sad in front of the ex, show happiness, carefree, aloofness". But in our relationship, I rarely showed neediness, clingyness, or tears and sadness on my part. In my good times I was aloof, carefree (to an extent), confident, smiles, sure of myself and things etc. When I was in my down times, anger, disappointment, bristling, would show up (not at her per se, but my usual way with dealing with bad things). But not crying or sadness. So while I take Beec' advice to heart and really, really think it would work and would be good for my sitch, I'm having trouble balancing the above. I also get the sense some days (not all days) that my ex *wants* me to go to her when I'm feeling sad. This hasn't been said, but it may be implied. LostinVan

Thanks GeeCee, Beec, everyone. Tonight's scoop... and I'm not enjoying things much. Other than the "friends" comment yesterday, I haven't brought up the thing I wanted to talk about. A friend found out that my ex and I broke up, and she told another mutual friend who apparently had some minor "hots" for me. We chatted over coffee a few times in the past couple of days, and tonight, the plan was for her to come over here and hang out for the evening. I didn't tell the ex about it. All I asked was "what's the plan for tonight - when do you think you''ll be heading back to the place you're staying". She said about 7ish. That worked good for me - my guest was coming over between 8 and 8:30. So... I want to clean the house a bit (beyond the normal cleaning... ie ditch some of the ex's stuff in the bathroom, give a good vacuum, etc), but I want to wait for the ex to go before I start. Plus, I was not looking forward to this "date" (very casual)... I like the woman, she's a nice person and attractive, but I only want to "date" one person.... It's 7:15, then 7:30, and the ex is still hanging around. She's being very nice and polite (save for one thing that happened this morning, but I'll put that aside for now). I finally say "You had mentioned you were leaving at 7???? (drag it out)... "uhm..." She was taken aback by that a bit, not much though. "Okay, I'm leaving..." I turn to do something else, and she said "come here" and gave me a big hug and said "are you okay this evening?". I admit I wasn't putting on the smiley faces much, and I wasn't looking forward to the date. I was also still feeling some ramifications from yesterday (see above). I said I was fine, I hope you have a good drive back and I'll see you tomorrow. Then I hopped in the shower. She wandered around the house for a bit while I was in the shower (heard the door close finally after I was done),. Now here's the thing. I know, 100% for sure, that my ex thinks that I wouldn't be seeing or dating anyone. That's her mindset. In a way, she sees me as someone too wrapped up in things to pursue anyone, plus in the back of my mind, I think she thinks I can't attract other women. In truth, I've always been casual about dating women in the past. Most of the women I've been with ended up chasing me a bit, because in the past I was very aloof and while not standoffish, I wouldn't put out many "vibes". So I am betting she didn't consider I may have a woman over. So, the friend comes over. We have a good evening, have a few glasses of port, talk a LOT about a mutual interest (the thing I'm a bit of an expert on), play some chess (I had a tiny glass chess set out on the coffee table), drink a bit more port, and she asked me to make her a couple of martinis. She was funny, friendly, engaging, interested and a bit flirty. We ended the night with a big hug, kiss on the cheek (sheesh sounds familiar), and I called her cab (I had 3 drinks, she had four, I wasn't about to drive her home - I'm conscientious that way) I enjoyed it and didn't enjoy it. The company was good. Even having another woman attracted to me (I assume) was good. But it's not what I want at all. Inside, a huge part of me felt miserable. I did however go back to Beec' advice and be a bit "absent" today from the spouse. I also have social plans for Friday, all afternoon and evening (will have to ask the ex to look after the dogs again), and a party to attend on Saturday. Now... questions. 1. I am completely lost here still. The game I'm trying to play now is so alien to me, I am lost, completely lost when it comes to figuring out what to do. 2. I had an attractive, interesting, young (8 years my junior) and funny woman over this evening, and in the end, I have to say I didn't enjoy myself at all. What the hell is wrong with me. 3. My ex probably won't have a clue a woman was over here, unless she smells the perfume (there's still a bit in the air as I type this). She doesn't know I have another date set up for Friday afternoon. Nor a party to attend (the first I'll attend in over 11 years without her). Do I drop hints about it, or just do it, or what? 4. Beec, GeeCee, I really need some guidance here as to how to handle the next few days. Today I had about 50% of the contact with my ex I have had in previous days (I scaled it back that much). Should I scale it back even more? Go a day or two without seeing her? My sitch is unique though, and that may prove difficult. Lastly, I wanted less contact today, but at one point when I was in my home office (door closed), the ex knocked on it and came in. She was very sad. so I asked why. They decided her French wasn't good enough for the interview, so they're not going to use it in the upcoming show. She came to me for support, so I gave it. Told her I was still proud of her, made good sounds about how she did well, her french was fine, etc etc and the interviewers were idiots for not using her well crafted and educated words. Then I said "sorry, but I have to get back to work" (beec was sitting on my shoulder). LostinVan

Hi Folks. Yesterday was a bad day. All I could think about was my Mom's recent passing, it was a very downer day for me emotionally. I wasn't thinking much of the relationship or the ex. I did send the email Monday night where I hinted I'd like to speak with her about some serious stuff on Wednesday or Thursday. Well, Tuesday, I just couldn't help crying (about my Mom - long story - I basically found all her recent cards to me, re xmas, bday, etc, plus a couple of audio tapes, and I made the mistake of listening to them). Ex came over, I tried to get a grip but couldn't. I barricaded myself in my home office; she wanted to chat. I said it wasn't a good time, she could tell from my voice so came in... We talked a while about my Mom etc, then she started pressing me about "the talk" I wanted. I kept saying not now, but then said "well, it's just about our friendship, but I need to wait." Then she started saying things. "You know, I haven't been fair to you, heck I give more respect and do more things with ____________, (named casual friend) than I do you... " She expanded on it a bit. I didn't say anything. Got a grip on things and said "thanks for this, I have to get back to work though". Did, and went out in the afternoon to hang out with a friend till about 9. By the time I got back ex was gone, as expected. I hinted before I left that "if I don't get back by the time you leave, the dogs may need some attention", so she let them all out, refilled their water bowls, did food, etc. (left a handwritten note saying as much, ending with "your friend, ____" So I didn't bring it up, except to say "about friendship". I'm afraid I did show severe neediness yesterday, but I tried not to. Does freaking out about my Mom's death count as that? Lots happened today, but I'll post about it later. Thanks folks for your continued support, encouragement and advice. This is so alien to me, but I'll try harder - I really value what all of you have been writing. Sorry if I seem to do two steps back for every step forward. LostinVan

Damn, I forgot something. My current game plan for the talk: - mention first "do you remember the stuff I said about us dating, how I feel about love now, and how I'm working on myself? All that still holds true" - qualify that by saying "please remember that once you hear me out on this" - say "right now I'm feeling a bit vulnerable and sensitive because things aren't really even between us. I've given you the space you desire, I don't ask about your comings and goings, I don't ask or enquire about your social life or where you're currently living. This gives you a lot of security and privacy and "space", and I'm intent on continuing it." - but I don't have that space and security. Right now, you have almost unlimited access to the house, you come and go when you want, and as a result, it's made me very uncomfortable. I don't have the security of knowing when you'll be here and when you'll be gone. This is where I live, but I don't feel secure and it's hampering my ability to heal." - then say "I'd like it if you could define for me your schedule for when you want to be here working, or be in the house on a weekly basis. If you want to drop by, please call first to let me know. If you want to stay later than the schedule, please also let me know, and understand if at the rare times I may ask you to not stay. If you ever want to drop by to talk, just give me a call and I'm sure most times I'd be happy to do so. But I need my space and security, and if I want to expand my social life, it would help if I knew you wouldn't drop by unnanounced." What do you think? Also, what do you think about my current progress etc as posted in the last message? LostinVan.

So, based on some excellent coaching from Beec, I've been working on the art of seduction and tempation and giving the goods and taking it away. If you've followed my story so far, you know I set up a media interview for my ex to do. Some background. - I'm a recognized expert in a particular field. - She has learned from me and knows a helluva lot about it too. - I am often contacted by the media for quotes and interviews - A french language media outlet contacted me to do an interview - in my relationship with my ex, I often discouraged her attempts to speak French. I'm fluent, and often I said her attempts "grated on my ears, please stop" (yes, terrible, I know now). I decided to ask her if she wanted to do the interview. I encouraged her to do it and said I wouldn't ask if I thought she could (all true). So she did it today. But I'm also in the midst of trying to stop her from being so comfortable with our current sitch. Right now, she's in heaven. She has me as this super nice, 180 guy from what she knew. She sees me almost every day because we both work from my home (used to be our home). But there's no relationship other than attempt at friendship and civility. She's in heaven because all her interactions with me are nice, friendly, "comfortable", and she's dating other guys (I'm about 90% sure it's one guy now). So she's getting affection and intimacy from another guy. So, following Beec' excellent advice, I'm starting to practice taking away some of that comfort. Today, she was very much wanting to tell me about the interview after she was done. She called me. I sent her to "busy" (something you can do on GSM phones). I didn't call back. I came home, she was working, but tried to come out to talk to me. I was working and said "I hope it went great, tell me about it later, I have to get a few things done". This made her upset. So later on when she was on a break, I said "hey, I'm free now, tell me about it". She made me wait. I found something to do briefly. She came down, started reluctantly telling me about it, then got all giddy and excited about it. I encouraged, congratulated, and broke one of Beec' rules - I didn't leave alone... I continued to listen and encourage. I even said "come here" and gave her a hug and kiss on the cheek. Probably a bad move considering my current strategy. After this, she got a bit cold (not right away - I went away, saw her five mins later, and it was distant). I'm not sure how to read this, but I think she's confused. She finished work, I made myself busy and didn't chat much with her. She went on the computer (she's accessing a date and sex website daily) came down, and here's the strange thing - but I'm wary of you all reading too much into it, because other elements make me sure this isn't what it is... she ran her hand down my arm as I sat on the couch watching TV, not really acknowledging her. This is slightly significant, because she hasn't done that kind of body contact since the break. She has kissed me on the cheek (her background says you do that with friends); she has held hands with me, mostly when I'm sad about my Mom who passed away recently. And she's given me hugs most days. BUT... other elements make me wonder if the hand brushing down the length of my arm is insignificant. I'm ashamed to say, I did a little spying today, and saw she was quite active (including sending a lot of IMs) on her dating board (don't ask how I know - I'm not running spy software on her computer, but being a bit of an IT guy, I can find out thru our router). I also know she had a friendly, almost flirty phone call with a guy not 15 minutes before the arm brushing. Right now, I'm extremely confused. I fully admit that Beec' advice is alien to me. I never play these kinds of games in life - I'm a straight shooter most of the time. My game plan tomorrow is to be almost totally unavailable. I also emailed her a message (we exchange pleasant emails) saying I'd like to have a talk wednesday about something serious. That talk will be setting boundaries about her (currently) unlimited access to the house. I need advice on how to do that. If you see my other posts (look in the Rich thread), right now, I'm a doormat when it comes to her living arrangements and "life" vs. mine. She comes and goes as she pleases here. I don't even know where she's staying. She leaves exactly when she wants. Not when I want her to leave the house, or expect it. So I'm going to address the issue. I have to have a game plan on how to do it in a positive, non combative way. Anyone have any ideas?

Gee Cee - the thursday plans sound awesome. Remember that chastity belt though girl... as much as I hate to say it, sex is probably your most potent weapon here right now. Flirt, tease, seduce, but as Beec says, know when to pull back, know when to close the lid to the cookie jar. You have the power girl! Go get 'im! LostinVan. Still wishin' he had a an actual date planned, but hey, things are sort of looking up.

Beec, just how frikkin' wise are you? You're absolutely brilliant. Basically, you put into more concise words what I was trying to figure out today. And I know she's enjoying the new ways... probably even too much so. Like I said, she's getting into a comfort zone. Time to take it away, at least some of it for a short time. So, the plan is this... tonight, I sent her a short SMS: "Bonne Chance in the media interview tomorrow, I know you're going to rock and roll, girl!" One final (and sincere, I should add) boost. She wrote back thanking me and with a very positive note. Tomorrow. I think she's by at 1pm. I will be actually heading out the door at that time with the pooch for our daily walk (part of my new exercise regimen - about 5km minimum a day walking). I'll say to her "Hey, I hope the media thing went awesome! Tell me all about it when I get back." If she tries to stop me then and there to gush about it, I will be polite but firm - "sorry babes, I have a prior commitment and I'm running late. I should be back in an hour or so", and I'll hop in the car with the pooch and probably take her to a park a couple of miles away from our home. I am sure I can find enough time to waste for two or more hours, then get back to the house. She'll most likely be teaching. I won't string her along too much... this is a fragile time, so depending on how her body language reads at this time (As well as when I leave earlier), I may either say a) I have to get some work done, can we talk later, or b) okay, how'd it go?. What do you think Beec - I hope I'm learning here LostinVan. PS Dude, you are SO right... I am so living for the moment she shows me attention in a postive way. I gotta back off from that.

I think I'm finally starting to realise what Beec has been saying (to me in my thread but here too). a) my ex and I fought like crazy. That was the bad stuff. But in the good times, I was sympathetic, I listened, I was nice, I didn't start arguments, I supported her, I had faith in her, I showed love. b) now that we're broken up, I am learning how to shut down a lot of my bad things about my personality - recognize them for what they were, learn from them and come up with better ways to handle those character flaws. c) now that we're broken up, with my lotsacontact, she sees two things - she sees all the GOOD things that we had in our relationship come out of me, and she sees the bad things being handled differently and in a more understanding way. So... today I was thinking... you know what? This is comfortable for her. She sees the good stuff she loved (well, not all of it - the love and affection isn't there, nor is the intimacy which she liked). She doesn't see the bad stuff the way it used to be - she sees it being handled positive now. And she's in a good zone. We're not together, but she gets her cake and eats it too. She's getting the equiv. of heaven right now, and she's going to other guys (or a guy) for the intimacy or loving feelings or whatever. So... time to STILL be nice, but pull back a bit. Show her that she will MISS the fullfilment I can (and continue to) give her. I have to stop letting her have the cake and eating it too. I have to start withdrawing a bit and perhaps she will miss it so much that she has to reevaluate portions of her thinking again. She's VERY comfortable right now, and like I said above, she's probably in some sort of heaven. She has me being nice to her, listening, being understanding, be flexible, not arguing, and when baited (and brotha, she's tried to bait me), I react in a 180 different way. Now its time to take away some of that comfort. Some of tha security. But also, just like Beec coached me, start things moving, ever so slowly, on the passion and intimacy levels. I've felt handcuffed because of her lack of wanting to kiss or be more affectionate, but I hope to develop some tools to start slowly doing this. Beec, you said compliment her on her looks and clothes. I've been doing that for a week or more (rarely, but at least once every day or two); perhaps its time to scale it up a bit. Rich... you're ahead of the game compared to my position... and I'm cautiously optimistic most days... so things are good, guy... have faith! LostinVan

Steviesangel... we're here for you. Keep your chin up, and post if you want - think positively, tell us what you're doing, or what you want to do. We've all been there girl, myself certainly included. LostinVan

Pip... meet a (former) very stubborn person. You said: Once he makes up his mind, it's hard for anyone or anything to change it. He'll even ignore his own feelings if they contradict what he's already decided in his head. Well, you pretty much described me at my worst moments. In my most heated arguments with my ex, I'd sometimes realise in my head that a) I was wrong b) what we were arguing was pointless c) what we were arguing was foolish and just plain stupid But I'd still argue away. Why? Well, in a word, pride. Foolish pride. I've discovered since then that there's good pride and bad pride. I've gotten rid of most of the bad stuff, or at least I hope I have. And that's the key... it's pride. I can't give you any quick fixes as to how to get your ex to see the light... he has to want to, like I did. It took a breakup of a 12 year relationship for me to see the light. If you have specific questions about what may be going on in his brain, ask away. I can't guarantee answers or to say what he's thinking, but I can give you one perspective. LostinVan

Well, I'm feeling a bit better. I went out with the boys for a short while and had a few pints. Nothing to get me drunk. I decided to pick up on sending her friendly emails again (I haven't done it for a couple of days because she wasn't responding). I covered the missed shopping trip here: "Regarding shopping today. Thank you for the apology, you owe me one now Don't worry about it too much, and I also understand that you have a lot on your mind, and that little things I may ask for get forgotten. It's okay." So, I think I handled that one okay. - I acknowledged her apology (I didn't do that much in our relationship) - I said she owed me one (with a smiley face, but the intent is there) - I showed understanding (in her email she further explained a reason why she forgot which I don't want to repeat here - it's personal to her). - I got a tiny dig in by saying "little things I may ask for get forgotten" - I actually didn't realise I got this dig in until after I sent it. Now I know I didn't wait a full day before acting, but I was in a much better frame of mind. Regarding coaching for her big interview. I decided to say this as the wrap up to my email: "I hope you had a great Saturday. I'm going to be busy Sunday, but will be taking a break at around 1 or 2pm for an hour or two if you want some additional coaching for your interview. I will most likely walk (the youngest dog) to the park and back at that time, and you'd be welcome to come along if you would like." So, I didn't quite follow your advice Beec... I felt I needed to put some kind of breaks on being a doormat, and I needed to do it toot suite. Mix it up, as Strong1 and Gee Cee have said. But I think the interview is important enough to her that she'll be flexible to my available time. LostinVan