Rain__man

Yipes... no opinions at all?

I think infidelity is a subject you should address very early into a relationship... just as something to talk about. Being afraid of something amplifies any reason you might have to wonder if you're right, and not having that person's opinion about it from the get-go just gives you more reasons to worry about whether they are capable than if they really are.

The best excersize is the stuff that you can't stop once you start: Hiking, bike riding... outdoor stuff. If you are just running on a hamster wheel in the gym, it's too easy to just call it all off whenever you want. The hardest part is just getting my... I mean your lazy * * * * out there to begin. Once you start... well, you have to get home somehow, right?

It's a horrible cliche... the whole "better to have loved and lost..." thing, but the bottom line is, it really does hurt a whole lot more to think of the ones you never tried for, than the ones that dropped you like a rock, or even those that just slipped away for no good reason. Girls have a hard time understanding just how cool we guys have to play it, just to have a chance; it could be that he likes you more than you are willing to consider. It could be that you are exactly correct. The Botton Line: Even if you tried and failed, you will respect yourself more in the end for having tried.

One definition of "class" is just as bullsh*^ as the other... Whether you're talking about rich/poor or "acceptable/undesirable" it's all about whose opinion you care about. The classiest person in the world can easily be the one no one else likes, to me. The poorest could easily be the richest, when you consider "rich" to be a wealth of something besides money. It all depends on your priorities. Attempting to be something that you think other people want to see or be around... that will only lead you to being something besides yourself.

You could say that class is all about being yourself, and being confident about it... please do us all a favor, and don't buy into that "Pretty Woman" hollywood crap. The likely fact is that you probably are a lot "classier" than you want to let yourself believe... or to let anyone else see.

The guy here could easily be me... What are all your feelings on people who have just had people their own stupidity hit them like a ton of bricks? The woman who was the love of my life used to jokingly call me "Mr. Right". We're on the outs too, and I guess I was just blind to when "Mr. right" turned into "Mr know-it-all"... and the lack of respect this kind of thing must show on a constant basis. Diamond, just in case his affection has come out as badly as it looks like mine has, I would hope that even the stupid deserve a second chance. If that's really how he is, and he doesn't fall on his * * * when he realizes what he has done, I agree. Get rid of him.

I have been talking on here... but not really asking any questions haven't I? This looks more like a journal than someone asking for help... All blustering like an @$$, and blubbering like a little kid aside, I think I'm starting to get the mindset that will get through this. I started out above, being arrogant and blaming her, and feeling like I should demand change from her too. I hit rock bottom yesterday, where I felt like it was all my fault. Now I think I can see where the truth probably lies smack down the middle, if not a little more on me. Melrich, you asked what got us here... It's always been really hard to tell what she wants, she was a fairly poor communicator in the beginning and still has a hard time asking for what she wants- unless she psychs herself up and puts the fighting gloves on. The only time she complains about anything is once a month when I know better than to take her that seriously- but I guess it was only the attitude I should have ignored, not the words. A lot of me still feels like she is wrong breaking us up and demanding changes she never really tried to endorse... I can accept the fact that she might need some time alone, or that she might just believe we need some time apart, but if there is one thing I believe it's that you have no right demanding that someone else change for you, that you try to help them change- especially when they agree with you. I have tried to endorse her being more bold, and be there for her when she needed someone... which used to be all the time. She is finally growing out of that clingyness, and believing she should speak up for what she believes in, and lately I think resenting me for acting like she still needs my help with everything. There, I realize I was wrong. Am I wrong too in feeling that we should have at least tried to work on these things without going to such a drastic and dangerous approach? Shouldn't we have made that desicion together if we both still believed in the other? But I've found out a lot in this short time, and done a lot. I've realized in myself a lot of little things I don't like about myself that she hinted at, but never outright said... not while even trying to be constructive about it. Almost a year ago, I could tell something was bothering her, and after an hour of trying, I finally got her to tell me what was bothering her; that I don't want to go out and party as much as she does, and that that is becoming something she wants to make an important part of her life right now. I don't mean raging keggers at frathouses, she's definitely beyond that, or I never would have fallen for her. I'm definitely not the most socially comfortable person, and after working 60+ hours a week, I often turn down going to late night events and prefer to go out to dinner or a movie and just chill with her. After I knew this was bothering her, I thought I was really trying... but sometimes I just don't feel like it, that's just how I am. Now I wish I had created more of those events on my own... this weekend I jumped in my truck and went to the river for the weekend and had a blast; just the sort of thing we should've been doing all along. Am I wrong in thinking that she should've suggested more of these things that we could plan for too, rather than getting hurt when her or our friends just pop something out of the blue, and I was just in the mood to chill? The thing I'll be the first to admit I screwed up major (and did admit it a week before this happened) is that I knew how much my smoking bothered her... and she had told me that she never wanted to be with a smoker, and that it scared her to want to be with someone for the rest of her life who was slowly killing himself. I haven't done a damn thing about it, and I have never wanted to be the pack-and-a-halfer I am right now (work stress has made me worse than ever lately, but I smoke that often at work or not). I never wanted to ignore that for so long, and I really feel like sh** about it... that's not who I am, I want to become the person the woman I love wants to be with. All the same, I still did nothing in the week leading to this, I put my work stress ahead of the woman I loved. So many things make sense now that I cannot deny that this break will be good for us both individually, but I think I agree with Mel. This is dangerous to us; it seems like every issue but her space could've been attacked as a team, and I had no choice in the matter. Do you think this has a chance of us both actually wanting the other at the end? Am I wrong to feel like she chose to risk everything than to aggressively try to get what she wants?

Deleted post... man I'm a jack@ss... (I later put them both in quotes below... shouldn't try to erase the past, or the truth) And the second...

Congratulations HSA. I hope everything works out, you seem like the type that deserves that for yourself, and with any luck, for her. If you had to reccomend any one of the books above as a starter, what would it be? It has only been a week since my whole fiasco started, and even though I feel strongly that we can pull through this if we both want to, I am definitely having a hard time keeping a straight perspective on how to keep myself under control. Thanks again, it's nice to hear that sometimes these things are worth working for.

Thank you, brother. I am going through a "break" with my girl of nearly two years, and you seem to have had the same troubles we have been having. I have been really doubting myself for calling both of us out on this very same behavior... resulting in this separation. I'm not sure it makes you feel any better, but I just wanted to thank you for making me feel better about starting a conflict that may or may not be the end of us. If we do get a chance to keep it alive, your quote above is going to be my mantra.

That pretty much sums it up. The break was her idea, and at first, I felt exactly the way Skippy does. By the time we were back in each other's arms, I think a lot had changed between us. By the end of the night, I started to get the feeling that we could (and wanted to) make it through this, both of us. By the end we were truly in agreement that we both needed to work on some things with some alone time. We've both known for a while that we want to change some things about ourselve for each other's sake if we're going to last. I think we've actually been holding ourselves back from that in our comfort with each other (procrastinators, both of us and that we're both a little hurt that nothing's been happening. It IS a risk, but I hope that, knowing both our personalities, the terms will give us the best chance we could have at a time like this. I honestly believe that we both will be trying to make ourselves better for each other with this time. If not... well, these are all things that are important to do for ourselves. (example: I have been wanting to get my own apt. for a long time now, but I've been lazy about it, and spending all my time with her... nothing was getting done). I agree in a lot of ways, I expect us both to change, and I think the sex thing gives neither one of us the right to be jealous (which is the whole idea). But if I start expecting her not to come back I lose bigger. I could end it now in my head... or I could get in better shape, get my own pad, have some good sex, start to meet more new people, and cut back on my smoking before I get all depressed. Any way you slice it, if it were to end, it would suck big time. I really do believe in us, but at my most selfish, I'd rather be in a better position to be her man or move on when it's time. I think she is doing the same. I guess you could say that... we're either very wise fools, or just fools. Only time will tell the truth.

Someone posted this in another thread, and it's funny... I said the same thing... yesterday. We had both decided a few days ago to split up and give a lot of thought about our slowly declining happiness with each other, we were picking at each other consistently over really stupid things for a while now. Before about 10pm last night, I would have said that taking a break was for people that weren't sure about each other. Moreover, I didn't think I had it in me to part with someone I loved so much for a long period without psyching myself out to give them up altogether. I certainly never thought that agreeing to seek other physical relationships would ever allow me to let that person back into my life. But after hours of yelling at each other, crying, and I think both learning a whole lot more about each other (all in one conversation)... we realized that the fears that had had us both on edge and cranky with each other were completely unfounded, and that the ones we had hidden from ourselves were completely true. We truly both need some time to grow on our own. My girl and I have been together for almost two years now, and we've agreed to split for roughly two months, and get back together in August, as long as we've both done everything we agreed to (if not then just a bit longer). We both agreed to have no physcal contact, but after a week or so, we can still talk to each other. When I asked if we should look at other people (thank you to whoever on here said that you should clearly define boundries), she said that she did not want to look for a relationship with anyone, but that... physical contact with other people might happen if someone truly interested her. I know she's not the type of girl to be out tramping around, but I knew that if we left it so open-ended, I would just go crazy. It took a while for me to come to terms with what she had just said, and I know she also felt horrible for feeling that way. So... we made it a requirement. We will both have to find one person to sleep with before we get back together. We also said that person should be worthwhile enough that we will actually tell each other about it, and celebrate the other one getting laid. I'm still not sure I'm completely comfortable with it, and I'm not sure she is either. I hope we're both a bit more sane knowing that we won't come back with an unequal experience, and that the one who didn't do something would resent the other (most likely me- she's very pretty, and though I'm no dog, hers is the easy part). We both have a few things in our lives we need to change before we're ready to see each other again, but I think that might just be the most important one. I think we've both had a lot of hidden fears about being together forever before we're done being young, before we experience someone else after everything we've tought each other. I think we're on the right path, and even though I already miss her so much, I know we'll be stronger than ever once we're ready to see each other. Thanks for reading all that, maybe writing it all out just now helped me to deal with it a bit better. This is one of my first posts on here, but you all seem to be a really great group of people (been reading on here for a few weeks now). I'd really appreciate any comments or advice any of you have one all this... it's still really weird to me.

I know you didn't mean it this way, but when I read it too fast, it reminded me a lot of the state I finally realized I was in for the longest time... I know it feels like you are not, but this is feeling sorry for yourself, and other people can feel it, radiating from you. Until you actually start to see that you are worthwhile, until your mind changes enough to start to break out of it, that's all you have to share with someone... lonliness. Bouts of depression feel like the blackest tar... like there's no escape, I know. Pretty soon though, you'll start to see that that crazy, lost, nearly bawling your eyes out feeling becomes comfortable in some messed up way. Once you realize that it has become more habit than reality, you are in position to take control of it. You'll start to recognize that "this is not you" while it's happening, and wake up feeling better te next day. After that it's a long period of cycles. It's a hard fight, but think about it this way... who are you going to let win, you? Or some fu(king disorder?