Do i have the right to be concerned over this? (flirting)

We have been hanging round with another couple for about a year now. My boyfriend is a very outgoing, flirtatious person naturally but something has been bothering me. Our two friends, Michelle and Danny, well Danny does not have a mobile so whenever we arrange to go out it is usually arranged between either myself and Michelle or my boyfriend Sam and Michelle. Well I am pretty sure my boyfriend is attracted to Michelle; he is always being touchy-feely with her and flirty but then he is like that with many people. However, I recently found some messages which I have found disturbing and I don’t know if I have the right to be concerned about it or I am just being paranoid.

So the other day there was a message on Sam’s phone from Michelle. He had sent Michelle a text saying he was planning on going out on Saturday in the local town to a restaurant. She replied back asking if two oldies were invited (meaning her and her boyfriend Danny) to which my boyfriend Sam replied “you mean Lottie (me) and Danny?” and she said “hahahaha yes ;-P” and he replied “if we have to”. Then some other conversation and she said “so who is going out?” and he replied “not sure at the moment just finding out who fancies it, so at the moment just me and you” and she replied “sounds good to me ;-)” and he replied “you mean you would be happy if it was just you and me?” and she replied “hahaha you will get me in trouble!! Of course I would be happy if it was me and you, but also Lottie and Danny” and he replied “I was going to say Lottie and Danny would not be happy”.

He has asked me about going out on Saturday with Michelle and Danny but I have not confirmed either way. I am just a little bit jealous of their recent text exchange. He doesn’t know I have seen the texts. What do I do? Do I have the right to be suspicious of them? I have noticed that when they are sat side by side their arms are always touching. He also takes lots of pictures of her when we are all out but he also takes them of other people too, so not sure if this means anything.

It sounds like he was aiming to invite just her, but she caught on and rebuffed it. So now you and her partner are invited as well.

I get he is naturally flirty and outgoing but the undertone there is a bit off, in my opinion.

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Let this go, while also finding something else for you and Sam to do, just to enhance your focus on each other. The conversation put each of them in an awkward spot. There are some things to pick away at, but it won't help you.

It does sound like he's attracted to her. I'm sorry to say that even worse, he seems to be willing to act on it. I would certainly ask him some questions about her. Pay attention to how he responds. I've noticed cheater-type men will often deny any attraction, but then find it impossible to not talk about the person they're attracted to. Everything that person does is cute, or funny, or wonderful.

Two real life examples of cheaters from my past-

1. He said, "She stood there, not knowing which way to go. You should've seen her face!" His whole face had lit up, full of joy, and he kept shaking his head, laughing - he was obviously replaying the moment over and over in his head. He was with her a month later.

2. He said, "She wore a pumpkin outfit to work for Halloween. You should've seen her driving off after work, her pumpkin outfit stuffed around her in her car." Again, the joyful expression, full of wonder. I didn't wait around for the inevitable, that was enough for me to leave.

It's worth asking your BF about her, casually, see what he says, but also how he says it.

Not appropriate. This guy was testing the waters for sure. Question him as others have suggested and pay attention to his body language and response. Be aware of any red flags you see from here on out.

Not appropriate. This guy was testing the waters for sure. Question him as others have suggested and pay attention to his body language and response. Be aware of any red flags you see from here on out.

i agree, he was holding his hand close to the flame- and questioning her as well, so he is not confident that he can be alone with her. she seems to confirm her availability, but she may havemeant thatas cuenta, she was in an ungraceful spot.

distance will help.

I'm pretty quick to dismiss innocent flirting, but I agree with MissCanuck. It honestly would have been harmless in my mind had they actually ended up meeting up one-on-one had he not thrown out the whole, "You'd be happy if it was just you and me?" That sounds like an awfully strong feeler question to me and I think it's understandable to wonder what he'd have in mind had she played along.

Don't get me wrong. My lady's got one friend in particular who I am pretty attracted to and who I do enjoy being a bit flirty with. But it's never crossed my mind to open that kind of conversation with her.

Big question is, now that you've gone through his phone and discovered this, what do you plan to do with it? I can easily see it as something he'll dig his heels in with as, while it's pretty obvious to infer, it's still subjective enough. Would you be willing to dismiss this as a one-off pushing of boundaries? Would you feel the need to keep going through his phone? Is this the first time you'd done so? Have you ever really trusted him? Could you after this?

I wouldn't like it but it would also depend on context and if they were friends separately. I have a married friend who harmlessly flirts -we've known each other over 20 years and we both know it's 100% harmless. But despite all that comfort honestly he would never go that far. And we do meet one on one because of logistics and it's totally fine (and totally out in the open!). But we wouldn't talk/text like that about our meeting despite the harmless banter.

Well thanks for the replies. You have given me a lot of food for thought. I am quite an intuitive person and when I get a vibe, I am usually right. Although I have been accused of being overly paranoid in the past due to these insights/gut instincts that I get.

I’m not sure where to go with this to be honest. I don’t want to confront him and then he deny it or say that I am being my usual paranoid self. As I said, he is a natural flirt with a dirty sense of humour, so she is she. Whereas myself and her partner are usually the bystandings while they are laughing about disgusting stuff. I don’t really see her partner reacting when the closeness/flirtiness is going on but he is such a laid back type of guy, I can’t really imagine him reacting to a lot.

The things that stick in my mind and make me shudder are the time we went to a show and they sat side by side, me on oneside of Sam and Danny on the other side of Michelle, so that my partner and Michelle were sat together. They were kind of leant into each other – arms touching at the top. Also when she was cold once he said to her I’m always warm and he kind of took her hand in his and held it for ages whilst they were both looking at each other. He seems kind of jealous whenever Michelle mentions something positive about her relationship with Danny, and will say something derogatory to kind of kill it.

My only concern now; should I say I don’t want to go out on Saturday and persuade Sam to go somewhere just us two; or do I clear the air with Sam, tell him my concerns and hope that he reassures me, but may make him be more careful around me in future and hide it better??

Forgot to say in reply to the Q about how long they have known each other: roughly two years; about the same amount of time we have been hanging around together. We all got together at the same time, about four years' ago. On the other hand, Danny and I have known each other all our lives and we were friends first, which sam used to be jealous of but now doesn't mention anything.

It does sound like he has a crush on her but it would seem she is also very much loyal to her bf and once she caught on to him pushing boundaries, she pushed him back politely.

I don't think it's a good idea for you to tell him your concerns because I doubt that he will reassure you. Quite the opposite, you are likely to be met with denial, ridicule and being told to quit being paranoid.

You should perhaps do more stuff just the two of you and maybe find additional friends to hang out with. In other words, put in some distance between yourselves and the other couple and limit how much time you are spending hanging out with them. Distance and time tends to cool down crushes. That said, crushes do happen in relationships, as do feeling attracted to other people. It's not that it will never happen, it's more about how you handle. Loyalty to your own existing relationship is always a choice and some days, it's a difficult one. So put in some distance, be your fun self and just observe how it goes.

If Sam wouldn't say those things to her if you were in the room, he was crossing boundaries. In my opinion, it's crossing the line. If you confronted him with your knowledge, he'd most likely say, "Oh, God. It's how I joke. You know that."

If my man told another woman those things, I couldn't stomach being with him. There's usually truth behind joking. You're upset and your feelings are valid. He's showing you who he is. Believe him the first time. He lacks integrity, going behind your back and telling another woman he'd rather spend time alone with her and wished they could ditch "the oldies." I don't think you're paranoid with what's gone on with his past behavior. The question is, are you willing to be regularly upset and frustrated in your main relationship, because he is who he is, and that's not going to change? If you don't have 100 percent confidence he won't cheat, then it's probably time to end things, since you state, "tell him my concerns and hope that he reassures me, but may make him be more careful around me in future and hide it better??"

When I was a teen, two neighborhood couples were always double dating and an affair did begin with all that interaction. Divorces happened and the cheating duo got together officially, so it can happen. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

If it were me, and keep in mind I am the most blunt and direct person you'll meet, I would say "I read the texts between you and Michelle. I know you were trying to nonchalantly feel out the situation to see if she'd go alone with you, don't deny it. I value myself and have enough self respect to tell you that I won't tolerate it again. And now all of the casual flirting stops, because you have crossed the line."

If you want to go out with them as a group, that's totally your decision. I would hope boyfriend would have the sense to know that a little romantic alone time for some bonding and a heart felt apology are in order.

It doesn't matter if HE feels like he did nothing wrong. The point is that he made YOU feel that way. Pain, whether physical or emotional, is subjective. So he can't tell you "it's no big deal" because, obviously, to you it was. So have a strong sense of self, know your boundaries, and assert them.

Like you said, when something feels off, it usually is.

Thanks for the replies.

I find it pretty gutting to be honest. I have asked him if he finds her attractive before and he denied it saying she is too skinny for him. He also ridicules her when we are out sometimes, telling her he only likes women that are over a certain size and that she needs to gain some weight but whenever he has the opportunity he is touching her in some way.

I think I am going to put some distance between us (me and my partner and her and her partner). It is a shame because we get along well but I can’t risk it.

One thing I haven’t mentioned is that he did cheat on his ex, but he said that was because she wouldn’t have sex with him for the last two years of the relationship. This made me shudder when I heard, so I always make sure that I fulfil his needs if you get what I mean.

Thanks for the replies.

 

I find it pretty gutting to be honest. I have asked him if he finds her attractive before and he denied it saying she is too skinny for him. He also ridicules her when we are out sometimes, telling her he only likes women that are over a certain size and that she needs to gain some weight but whenever he has the opportunity he is touching her in some way.

 

I think I am going to put some distance between us (me and my partner and her and her partner). It is a shame because we get along well but I can’t risk it.

 

One thing I haven’t mentioned is that he did cheat on his ex, but he said that was because she wouldn’t have sex with him for the last two years of the relationship. This made me shudder when I heard, so I always make sure that I fulfil his needs if you get what I mean.

No, he cheated because his values justified it. You don't cheat "because" you're not getting sex -if that is an issue you end the relationship or explore ways to not end the relationship. Cheating is only an option for those whose values justify it. Please don't ever tell yourself that you have to satisfy his needs so he won't cheat. Whether or not he is behaving inappropriately in a committed relationship he's certainly behaving in a tactless and rude way when he comments on her body in that way. Ick.

Thanks for the replies.

 

I find it pretty gutting to be honest. I have asked him if he finds her attractive before and he denied it saying she is too skinny for him. He also ridicules her when we are out sometimes, telling her he only likes women that are over a certain size and that she needs to gain some weight but whenever he has the opportunity he is touching her in some way.

 

I think I am going to put some distance between us (me and my partner and her and her partner). It is a shame because we get along well but I can’t risk it.

 

One thing I haven’t mentioned is that he did cheat on his ex, but he said that was because she wouldn’t have sex with him for the last two years of the relationship. This made me shudder when I heard, so I always make sure that I fulfil his needs if you get what I mean.

Ooooh....ouch....sweetie, he is not just an innocent flirt, he is a proven cheater and yes, he is trying to line up the next one. I take back what I said before. You need to confront him and dump his ass and spare yourself a whole lot of pain down the line. You are dating a proven cheater and he cheated, because as Batya said, he has no values. Funny thing about cheaters is how convincing they are in their reasons and excuses for what they did. The truth is that there never is any reason, excuse, or justification for cheating. Full stop.

After reading that (1) you're an intuitive and (2) that they have familiar non verbal behavior even when they might have otherwise oriented toward their respective partners, I suggest you know what you need to know..

Make a decision for yourself about what sort of relationship you want. Decide whether you are available and ready for that relationship, do what you need to do to get yourself ready, and then move on.

Your bf may be a good bf in many respects, but he isn't your last man, he is a stepping stone. Keep him in this proper context and leave him when you are ready.

No conversation you have will be satisfactory, in either proving or disproving their attraction or his intentions. Why bother with that drama? Just manage him according to the risks he presents.

Let go of future ideas, let go of dream type stuff. Enjoy him in the moment. Do what you need to do to let that happen, including more time with friends, doing your own thing, whatever.

You want a man with firmer boundaries and reasonably so, and you're not willing to keep him if he is a little fast and loose with the occasional stray (Some are. Also, those who have tolerance for a little strange are often also very good at keeping boundaries.)

Assess your own growth path. Assess why you picked him. Do whatever work you need to do. Leave when you're ready.

Sounds like he objectifies women and is constantly sizing them up as to his likes and dislikes. They are his playthings and he touches them as if they were his gf and engages in inappropriate banter with them.

And yes, if an emotionally healthy man isn't happy in a relationship, he works on the problems, and if that fails, he ends the relationship. Cheating is one of the most hurtful things you can do to another, and this is what he's capable of.

I have a feeling your self worth needs more work since you're scrambling to keep him satisfied with sex so he has no excuse to cheat. Look at what you're doing here. A good man wouldn't have you fearing anything. A good man would make you feel secure in a relationship.

Yes, everyone's heads turn when there is a really good looking person around. That's nothing to worry about. What's worrying is behavior that crosses the line. When I started dating my future husband, I discussed my relationship boundaries and made sure his were the same. I told him the consequences if the boundaries were crossed.

When you act like a doormat, people will scrape their dirty mud all over you. When you know you're a special person who deserves the best, you'll accept no less. You deserve better. Time to convince yourself of this.

One thing I haven’t mentioned is that he did cheat on his ex, but he said that was because she wouldn’t have sex with him for the last two years of the relationship. This made me shudder when I heard, so I always make sure that I fulfil his needs if you get what I mean.

This is really not good.

He doesn't take accountability for his cheating. He blames the ex. The mature and respectful thing to do would be break up with the ex, then have sex with someone else.

This boyfriend of yours has some very questionable ethics, OP. In light of this information, I think you have even more reason to be very wary here.

You do know that if he wants to cheat, it wouldn't matter if you two were hanging from the chandelier 5 times a day. He'd still cheat.

AND, he's proven that not only does he cheat, but he feels justified in cheating. Not good.

A past cheater flirting to see how far he can push it.

Next.

I'm really upset about this.

I always knew he was a flirt and that he had made that mistake in the past. Now I have read these replies, I feel much worse, sorry to say. I love him and don't want to think about splitting up. We have been together for four years which is quite some time.

How do I know he wasn't just fishing to see if she fancied him back rather than actually planning to go off on his own with her, had she agreed?

I'm really upset about this.

I always knew he was a flirt and that he had made that mistake in the past. Now I have read these replies, I feel much worse, sorry to say. I love him and don't want to think about splitting up. We have been together for four years which is quite some time.

 

How do I know he wasn't just fishing to see if she fancied him back rather than actually planning to go off on his own with her, had she agreed?

you don't know, can't know, won't ever know. your boundary needs to be something other than what he thinks and does in his private time. that movie date --- you didn't have the date you wanted, because of his orientation towards her. That is enough. Your focus is wrongly placed on what he is doing. shift it to whether you have what you want.

you don't.

you've got 4 years. do you want 10 years of this?

your fear of losing him - or anyone - causes you to choose people who will let you get lost. you're silencing yourself, allowing your boundaries to be disrespected, not setting boundaries at all. find your voice to speak what you want and what you feel.

I recommend the book Attached. It's on a amazon, white with a corny heart on the front. i googled about boundaries; it may help.

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I'm really upset about this.

I always knew he was a flirt and that he had made that mistake in the past. Now I have read these replies, I feel much worse, sorry to say. I love him and don't want to think about splitting up. We have been together for four years which is quite some time.

 

How do I know he wasn't just fishing to see if she fancied him back rather than actually planning to go off on his own with her, had she agreed?

He really shouldn't be doing this, either.

It's the very fact that he asked at all that wouldn't sit well with me at all. Asking feeler-type questions is inappropriate in a relationship.

He really shouldn't be doing this, either.

 

It's the very fact that he asked at all that wouldn't sit well with me at all. Asking feeler-type questions is inappropriate in a relationship.

Thank you. I know that i need to gain more self-respect and lay down some rules of what i will not tolerate. He said his ex was a jealous person and i guess I did not want to come across that way, so have made myself a push-over in the process. I just want to be happy and settled is that too much to ask?

BTW what are 'feeler-type questions'?