Boyfriend has a set number of years that he wants to date before getting engaged

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, abykann said:

I'm just wondering if this is a common thing for people to feel super strongly about

Not really. I mean its arbitrary, but usually its “I want to finish school, find job etc”. Which is kind of a sensible demand. For example my friends got engaged but postponed wedding for a while(to be fair Corona also had something to do with it), then it was buying their own place and with that also the baby even though they were in late 30s. They are expecting now so it all ended up well. And it was kinda sensible of them to think about the future. But it doesnt work out for all.

For example, my friends always got future vision together. “We get the wedding, we buy appartment, we get the baby”. Your boyfriend just doesnt. He wants the thing he wants to do and then after some arbitrary time, to get marry. Reminds me on one of my exes. Who switched the cities because of her then boyfriend. Lived together for years. Only for him not to ever want to marry her. With midsets like that, you are just wasting time there. In 2 years he would maybe pursue bigger career. Anything just to not marry you. So if you want ro get married, have kids and all that, I dont think your paths are the same. Nore it maybe ever will be.

[abykann]

4 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

OP, what's his history in past relationships?  How long and why did they end?  

If you haven't discussed, ask!  It's your heart and your life.

IF he does have some sort of "fear of commitment" this is important information.  Remember the more information we have, the better decisions we will make re knowing if someone is the right fit for marriage.

Pay attention to his response and don't live in "never-never land" waiting for something that in all likelihood imo (at least not with him), will never happen.

I mean what does he think will happen in five years that isn't happening now?  Does he think he's gonna wake up one morning in five years and miraculously want to get married to YOU? It make NO sense. 

With no other context from him and utilizing common sense, to me it sounds like BS, a stalking tactic. 

Be smarter than that and take care of you. 

He's had a few short relationships before me. I think the longest was 8-10 months. He was the one who ended the past relationships because he didn't think those girls were "the one". He was barely 22 when we first started seeing each other.

I've asked him about what he thinks he will learn about me in those extra 2 years that might change his mind about me and he can't answer. He just thinks it's an appropriate amount of time to get to know someone...for somer reason. I've explained to him that for the rest of our lives we will keep growing and changing as people, just like we have for the past few years we've known each other. I think he takes a proposal incredibly seriously, he seems to equate it with marriage.

[abykann]

5 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It seems like he prefers just coasting along for economic, household and sexual convenience. 

I think that's a bit too harsh of an evaluation...I think he's afraid but I don't know why. And I can't do anything if he won't tell me

[rainbowsandroses]

40 minutes ago, abykann said:

He flip-flops so much...a couple months ago he was in agreement about being engaged but then recently let it slip that it isn't actually what he wants.

This^ type of flip-flopping suggests an anxiety and internal conflict re commitment and marriage, combined with his history of ending relationships before even one year further indicates a strong fear of commitment.

I'm very knowledgeable about this fear and would suggest you do some research and learn about it.

Imo why it's last longer with you than others is because you tolerate it whereas the others most likely did not. 

No woman actually seeking marriage and commitment would stick around imo at least not in this case with all his flip flopping etc. 

At this point it's not even about HIM, it's about you and why you choose to stay. 

Perhaps you have your own fears that you're not even consciously aware of, that's how these relationships typically work. 

Think about it and good luck...

 

[tattoobunnie]

4 minutes ago, abykann said:

I think that's a bit too harsh of an evaluation...I think he's afraid but I don't know why. And I can't do anything if he won't tell me

Not really. Far too many put someone on a pedestal.  He's already told you he doesn't want to marry you, and he's okay for you to turn your life upside down in case he may change his mind.  That's not how relationships with a strong foundation work.

[boltnrun]

I don't know that it's "fear" of commitment. I think he just might not want to get married. Not wanting something isn't the same as fearing it.

I don't want to get married ever again. I don't "fear" remarriage, I just don't find it to be something I want. My friends (married couple) never wanted kids. They don't "fear" being parents, they just don't want any children. 

If you value marriage but you also want to be married to HIM, I feel your only option is to wait it out. If you're approaching an age where you think your fertility might be at risk, waiting might not make sense. But if not, can you wait it out? BTW, I think you're perfectly within your rights to NOT want to wait. I probably wouldn't. But you may think keeping this man is worth setting aside your wants temporarily to see how things pan out.

Side note, I married my husband because he gave me a "marry me or lose me" ultimatum. We lasted 14 years married, primarily because we had a child three years in and the child held us together longer than we might have been. But ultimately my initial hesitance was correct...we were not suited to be married and I think if we'd waited we would have learned that before we actually got married. I don't regret the marriage because I have my wonderful son, but we did not belong together as a married couple. (And yes, I did feel pressured into a marriage I wasn't ready for.)

[Andrina]

1 hour ago, abykann said:

We've been able to work through everything else. He says he wants be married one day and he says he sees me as his future wife.

But honestly, I wouldn't wait for his 5-years because I wouldn't move with him if he didn't propose. And he's made it clear that he doesn't believe in long distance.

I have a few questions. What are the other issues you've had to work through?

And, what was the discussion like where he made it clear he doesn't believe in LDRs? Did he say he was moving and if you chose not to go, that LDRs weren't for him so that'd be the end of you two? If that's how the discussion went, it's in your best interest to end things with someone who clearly doesn't love you the way a partner should.

[itsallgrand]

He might simply feel he is too young to want to make that commitment, or not ready. 

If you want the guy who is eager to marry and have kids and secure a home, he's not it. There's lots of men out there who will marry in no time flat in their mid 20s. There are lots of people too who aren't there at that time or who like to take many years before a marriage.

You are just on different time lines. There doesn't have to be anything wrong. Not everyone is so strongly marriage motivated as you. 

 

[mylolita]

Evening Abykann,

 

Actions speak louder than words! 
 

Anyone can say anything! They can give you pie in the sky statements! They can even propose! But it doesn’t mean anything until you’ve got down the aisle and have said “I Do!”

 

I am not saying this is necessarily you or your relationship, but just to give an example: My sister was in an 11 year relationship. They bought a house together; perpetually lived together for a decade. They battled over getting married all the time. He did eventually propose to her and all seemed well… apart from, 4 years passed engaged and nothing even began to get organised regarding a wedding. 
 

There is no perfect time for anything. No perfect time for children, no perfect time for marriage. You have to want those things and men and women who want to be married will make legitimate steps and action to get there. 
 

It’s always hard to say from over the internet but unfortunately it sounds like he may be stringing you along.

 

You have to ask yourself if, in 5 years time, he changes his mind again and you are nearing 30, if you’d be okay realising it was based on limited substance and you had to start over again? 
 

My sister is now 32 and newly single. She thought she would be happily married by now with children but she finds herself on the singles market and having to start all over again because she didn’t listen to her gut feelings! 
 

All the best, and trust your instinct, because even if you have a heart to heart with him, he could possibly still lie if his motivation is really never to be married.

 

x

[abykann]

1 hour ago, Andrina said:

I have a few questions. What are the other issues you've had to work through?

And, what was the discussion like where he made it clear he doesn't believe in LDRs? Did he say he was moving and if you chose not to go, that LDRs weren't for him so that'd be the end of you two? If that's how the discussion went, it's in your best interest to end things with someone who clearly doesn't love you the way a partner should.

In the beginning of our relationship we worked through a lot of communication issues. He had a bad habit of letting his concerns/annoyances build up to the breaking point instead of talking them out because he hated conflict. He's made huge improvements on this though which is why we haven't been having these blow-up fights. We also had some issues with some people in our friend group who didn't approve of our relationship and began treating me poorly. He was pretty blind to their behaviour and didn't want to get involved but finally made the decision on his own to stop seeing those friends.

The discussion about the LDR was exactly that. He was initially looking at taking a job outside of the city when he finisbed school but I told him I wouldn't be moving with him because it was too soon. He chose a really good job locally and we discussed that I would be comfortable moving with him to the next job if we were engaged. Now the time has come where his project is near completion and he has specifically stated that he does not believe in long-distance and we would essentially be over. I don't know if he'd actually go through with that because right now he's saying he'd propose so that I'd go with him. It just isn't what he wants

[abykann]

42 minutes ago, itsallgrand said:

He might simply feel he is too young to want to make that commitment, or not ready. 

If you want the guy who is eager to marry and have kids and secure a home, he's not it. There's lots of men out there who will marry in no time flat in their mid 20s. There are lots of people too who aren't there at that time or who like to take many years before a marriage.

You are just on different time lines. There doesn't have to be anything wrong. Not everyone is so strongly marriage motivated as you. 

 

It's honestly not even about the "marriage" part, it's about him showing a commitment to us in the same way that he's expected me to show a commitment to him. I've made it clear that I'm in no rush to get married. But I'm making sacrifices to follow him on this move, he talks about me selling my house and using the money to buy a new one together, he talks about having a baby in the next few years, he's comfortable asking me to leave behind my life and home for him, but he's afraid to buy an engagement ring? 

[boltnrun]

7 minutes ago, abykann said:

he talks about me selling my house and using the money to buy a new one together,

I'm sorry, but what???

I bet he wants you to use your money to buy a home somewhere HE chooses to live!

Everything you say he talks about almost exclusively benefits him. Where are your wishes in this equation? Sure, having a baby is a wonderful thing but if you're not married? Are you OK with living together and procreating without being married? 

9 minutes ago, abykann said:

he's afraid to buy an engagement ring? 

I doubt he's "afraid" to buy an engagement ring. He just doesn't want to and doesn't see a need to. 

I wouldn't be surprised if he agrees to be verbally "engaged" just to get you to move with him (and sell your house for the financial benefit) but wants to hold off on buying a ring. 

I'm sorry, but even though I felt coerced into getting married way before I wanted to, in no way was my husband (fiance at the time) making all the decisions like where to live, how we'd spend our money, etc. We decided all of that together. 

I don't know...this just doesn't sound equitable at all. 

[DarkCh0c0]

He's not THAT into you.

He likes having you around and taking for granted your gf benefits (cooking, cleaning, sex, house moves, rent savings, ect.) rather than be your life partner. 

Someone who truly wants you would be all about plans and putting a ring on that finger because he wouldn't want to lose you. He would treasure you and you would be on the same page. 

I'd have a deep think on whether this is really worth it. Wasting 5 more years only to be told he wants to achieve another selfish milestone and he's too busy/uninterested in marriage would not be in your best interest. Think of your best interest here, because obviously he doesn't have yours in mind.

[rainbowsandroses]

49 minutes ago, abykann said:

Now the time has come where his project is near completion and he has specifically stated that he does not believe in long-distance and we would essentially be over. I don't know if he'd actually go through with that because right now he's saying he'd propose so that I'd go with him.

Bolded, wow wow wow. 

OP, what are you still doing there?  That comment pretty much says it all, it's unclear why you choose to NOT see that.  It's insulting and if my boyfriend said that to me, there is no way on god's green earth I would be remaining in the relationship one more minute. 

A man in love and wanting a commitment (even eventually) would NEVER say this to a woman he loves.  No freakin way. 

I would advise you to take the blinders off, you are in deep denial and I do not envision this ending well for you at all!   

One thing you should realize about commitment fears is that the person (him) is literally incapable of committing either way - whether it's to stay or to end it.    Both decisions cause extreme anxiety so they flip flop, go back and forth and keep you dangling waiting around for him to make up his mind which he never will.  

I mean come on OP, use your "noodle" as my late mom would say.  This means to think with your head and logically versus emotionally (but I love him).  Love does NOT conquer all, that is a Disney fairly tale.

One minute you IN (he wants marriage), the next minute you're OUT (he doesn't), the next minute you're IN (he does).  Lather rinse repeat.  This will continue throughout and I don't believe for ONE second that in two more years when it hits five years, he will be any more ready or desirous of committing than he is now.

He will think of another excuse to stall could almost guarantee it.

This is sad and I'm sorry.

 

 

[itsallgrand]

30 minutes ago, abykann said:

It's honestly not even about the "marriage" part, it's about him showing a commitment to us in the same way that he's expected me to show a commitment to him. I've made it clear that I'm in no rush to get married. But I'm making sacrifices to follow him on this move, he talks about me selling my house and using the money to buy a new one together, he talks about having a baby in the next few years, he's comfortable asking me to leave behind my life and home for him, but he's afraid to buy an engagement ring? 

Yes. This is what he wants. 

It's fine if you don't want that. In fact, I'd highly suggest you NOT do that. 

But the writing is on the wall here. He's being clear. 

It's on you to decide what you want for the future and if this lines up with it.

An engagement, a ring on the finger, isn't going to change that you do not want the same things. 

[Wiseman2]

49 minutes ago, abykann said:

 I'm making sacrifices to follow him on this move, he talks about me selling my house and using the money to buy a new one together, he talks about having a baby in the next few years, he's comfortable asking me to leave behind my life and home for him, but he's afraid to buy an engagement ring? 

Your only recourse is to ask him to move back in with his parents until he decides what he wants. That's the only leverage you have. Otherwise you're just begging and arguing about the future, his job/city, etc. 

Please don't move or sell your house. Reflect on his stance about it's over if he moves because he doesn't do LDRs. Please talk to trusted friends and family who have helped you along the way. 

[Andrina]

It's his way or the highway.

Versus what would be happening in a true partnership, where after several full years together, a couple would discuss important issues and come up with a consensus both would be happy/satisfied with. 

He can have gainful employment in your local area, so it's not a matter of having to move. If he wants the spark of being in another city, a vacation with you to visit one a couple times a year would've been something that'd be like comprising and not wanting to lose the person you've built a beautiful relationship with.

Perhaps with limited dating experience at your young age plus self-worth that likely needs improving, you don't see any of this as a total dealbreaker, so please listen to people who've been around the block more times than you who know that you can do far better.

[catfeeder]

4 hours ago, abykann said:

For the record, he has fully agreed to propose within the year, but clarified that he is not ready and would only be doing it to make me happy.

My heart goes out to you. If I heard this ^^^ from someone in whom I've already invested 2.5 years of my life, I'd kindly thank him for his honesty, and I'd begin planning the moment that I tell him I am done. Actually and purposefully done, not as some manipulative tactic to squeeze the guy into operating in ways that he feels are not in his own best interests.

You can't force someone into wanting what he doesn't want.

BF doesn't have the same bio-clock in terms of family planning. The moment you 'win' this battle, you can start anticipating your loss of the war. It could come after you get the ring, it could come after you wear a white dress--but the fact that one partner carries resentment about the timeline means that your goals are not aligned, and your bond carries the highest odds of imploding.

I would make this less about the man and more about how I want to live my life. Would I want that to include a hole in my stomach lining because I cannot trust that my partner is equally invested 'us' and 'our' timeline? Not a chance.

 

[boltnrun]

As someone who was coerced into a marriage, I probably had some degree of resentment toward my husband, but ultimately I was and am responsible for making the decision to marry him instead of saying "stop" or "wait". However, the marriage was basically doomed from the start because it wasn't a case of two people in love who chose to get married but rather one who reluctantly went along with the other one's wishes. I feel bad because if I had stood my ground and said "wait", maybe things could have been different for the both of us. I am so grateful for my wonderful son while at the same time I feel guilt for putting the poor boy through a divorce. But it didn't make sense for the three of us to live in a miserable household. And it did get to be miserable. 

My point is, a marriage or engagement that's the result of one party giving in to the other has a very low chance of succeeding. 

Ideally he would come to you on his own saying he thought about it and realized he can't envision his future without you and he's planning to propose to you properly. But if he's digging in his heels and saying it's not what he really wants...

[Batya33]

I agree with Boltnrun and Catfeeder and I would not delve far at all into "oh he's a commitmentphobe" -if that were the case that's on him to be motivated to seek professional help or some outside resource -friend, book, religious counselor -to stop letting his fear impede his future with you.  He's not.  You're not a therapist nor should you nag him into marrying you as I wrote.  I'm a fan of information -relevant information -in your situation getting more information or getting him to say "yes I guess I'm afraid of commitment" -isn't going to really help in any practical way.  Maybe an ego way -whew, it's not me it's him.

Here's another thing that stands out to me -you've said much about your career goals -when it will be your  turn to pursue them if you move with him (please don't!) - but you're soooo passive about this -oh well I won't know if he really means it till he's done with this project, oh I'm "hoping" he'll change his mind."  I bet you're quite different when you pursue work, your career, your professional goals -yes? So why not here -is it possible  you're not so keen on making this official so you're using his reluctance as an excuse to be safe from making such a big decision?

[Capricorn3]

6 hours ago, catfeeder said:

I'd gently let BF know that he doesn't need to respond to what I'm about to say in this moment, he can take some time to think on it. Then I'd tell him that I'm not willing to spend my best fertility years waiting for a proposal. He gets to decide what that means to him, and he can let me know when he wants to discuss this again.

Meanwhile, I'd be making plans for another place to live. If he doesn't revisit the conversation before I've secured my plans, then I'd carry them out, and we'd be over.

^ THIS entire post is worth repeating.  Great post Cat. 👍

[rainbowsandroses]

7 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I don't know that it's "fear" of commitment. I think he just might not want to get married. Not wanting something isn't the same as fearing it.

True however when a man (or woman) does not want to get married, they typically don't flip-flop and go back and forth, one minute they do, the next they don't.  Lather rinse repeat.  It's crazy making and indicates an internal conflict and anxiety otherwise there would be no flip flopping and going back and forth.

It's an anxiety which is evidenced (again my opinion because I have experienced this anxiety myself and have learned a lot about it) by him telling her he wanted to get engaged and buy her a ring, but then shortly thereafter (after anxiety kicked in) changed his mind.

There is something going on there imo besides simply not wanting to get married.  People who simply don't want to get married do not behave this way.

They make it very clear they have no interest in marriage, period.  No flip flopping, back and forth and changing their minds.

Again JMO as always.

 

 

 

[boltnrun]

My BIL flip flopped like crazy but it was deliberate. He wanted his girlfriend to stay but he didn't want to actually marry her. So he pretended to want marriage but never followed through. It wasn't out of fear but, frankly, out of  selfishness. 

So if the OP' s boyfriend doesn't necessarily want to end the relationship but also doesn't want to get married he could pretend he wants marriage sometime in the future (after five years) but what he really wants is to stall. Possibly. 

[rainbowsandroses]

Just now, boltnrun said:

My BIL flip flopped like crazy but it was deliberate. He wanted his girlfriend to stay but he didn't want to actually marry her. So he pretended to want marriage but never followed through. It wasn't out of fear but, frankly, out of  selfishness. 

So if the OP' s boyfriend doesn't necessarily want to end the relationship but also doesn't want to get married he could pretend he wants marriage sometime in the future (after five years) but what he really wants is to stall. Possibly. 

This ^ is also possible. And pretty common.

Probably doesn't matter, what's important is that for whatever reason, the guy doesn't want to get married.  Not to the OP anyway.  

And I hope someday hopefully soon the OP will acknowledge that and leave assuming marriage IS what she truly wants. 

 

[boltnrun]

Yeah, oftentimes the "why" is irrelevant. Pondering whys just keep us stuck in untenable situations. Or we invent "whys" and then use them as excuses to stay in bad or dead end relationships. 

Basically, if what we want and what our current partner wants don't align and there's no possibility of compromise we have to conclude we're not a match. Even if we genuinely care for one another. 

And I can't caution enough against marriage by coercion.