Feeling left in the dust as a nice guy and lonely

[Armyguy368]

I am so tired of being passed over for other guys. I am always seen as the "Mr. nice guy". Its been like this since high school. I always seem to get interested a woman I like and then I am always put in the "friend zone" as she tends to date another guy. Its ripping my heart out each time. I suffer from depression and this brings me really down. So It takes me time to get out of the mood I am feeling (I am in therapy so you know dealing with my depression). 

I have a lot to offer a woman and always told I am sweet, but that nice, but it leads to nowhere. It seems I tend to like a woman who likes another guy and this is getting so old. I cant seem to find a woman that I like that fits what I am looking for without getting hurt all the time. Or I get to know a woman thinking this could lead somewhere and then I get friended and not into the boyfriend or I want to date you status.

I am 53 and I feel time is running out. I am not going to date someone that I am not attracted to just to get sex, because that is not I want. Yes I want to get laid, but to someone that I am attracted to and vice sersa. 

I dont know what to do anymore and tired of being alone. 

 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Armyguy368 said:

. It seems I tend to like a woman who likes another guy and this is getting so old. I cant seem to find a woman that I like that fits what I am looking for 

Where are you finding these women?  What exactly are you looking for? Do you tend to be picky? 

 

[ShySoul]

I am also Mr. Nice Guy who has had women telling me how sweet I am and how well I understand women. I have tended to have more women as friends then males and get along better with them. I have also known what it's like to care for a woman who is with someone else and how depressing and demoralizing that can feel. I'm 41 and also have days where I wonder if I've lost my chance and why love seems to constantly evade me. So take heart in knowing you're not alone in your feelings.

What has helped me when I'm feeling down is to shift my perspective. If you are always thinking about the glass being half empty, you can't enjoy the half that is full. As much as a relationship would be nice and fill a missing spot in our life, we can't be so fixated on it that we miss out on all the other things there are in life. Romance is but one part of life. Focus on the rest and find the thing that sparks joy within you. I've been my happiest when I didn't think about how I need to find someone and just enjoyed living for me. That also happened to be when I attracted someone else, partly because I wasn't putting pressure on myself and the person could see my natural light shining through.

I'd also suggest a shift in perspective regarding the "friend zone." Gosh, I really can't stand that term. You are not being sorted into some box, placed aside because you did something wrong or because they were interested in someone else. The situation has nothing to do with being friends. There simply wasn't a mutual level of attraction. That happens all the time. There have probably been people who were attracted to you, but you only saw them as friends. You may not even be aware they had feelings for you. Reality is that we are only going to be attracted to a small number of people we come across, and a small number will be attracted to us. Finding the intersection of those two numbers, presents a small number of viable circumstances in the first place. 

Don't give up. Yes, it may seem like it will never happen. But have faith it will happen when it's right. And when it does, the moment will be more magically for all of the waiting. All those years of pent up emotions will make it that much sweeter. Good things happen to those who wait.

 

[Kwothe28]

8 hours ago, Armyguy368 said:

I am always seen as the "Mr. nice guy". Its been like this since high school. I always seem to get interested a woman I like and then I am always put in the "friend zone" as she tends to date another guy.

One woman once told me that when women say about how men are nice, they really meant "men are dumb". Its a simplyfied version of it, but in a way, it is a thing. See, women in general dont like "nice guys". "Nice" means that you let everybody walk all over you. At work, in a relationship etc. Its not an attractive property to have. Most women dont like somebody who patronizes them. It means that you dont have your own voice and that you are way too passive. Far that you need to be somebody who would want to be just "me, me, me" all the time, but being so passive is just a big turn off for a lots of women. So they would rather go to somebody who is not somebody who lets everybody whipe their shoes of them. It maybe feels unfair to you, but it is as it is.

I think that its good that you are in therapy. It maybe makes you confront with that and maybe in the future be more assertive. It would help you in the long track in life and by the extension, in dating too.

[ShySoul]

8 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

One woman once told me that when women say about how men are nice, they really meant "men are dumb". Its a simplyfied version of it, but in a way, it is a thing. See, women in general dont like "nice guys". "Nice" means that you let everybody walk all over you. At work, in a relationship etc. Its not an attractive property to have. Most women dont like somebody who patronizes them. It means that you dont have your own voice and that you are way too passive.

Just about evey woman I've known has told me the opposite. They have told me that they dream of finding the nice guy that will be there to love and support them. The ones who are married will tell me they are happy they found a nice guy. They actively complain and are fustrated by the guys who don't treat them nice. 

Nice doesn't mean pushover. Nice doesn't mean you have no confidence or don't speak up for yourself. Nice doesn't mean passive or patronizing. Nice simply means nice. It means you care about people and try to help them. It means you show respect, both to yourself and others. It means kind, friendly, and polite. It means genuinely listening to others and doing your best to understand and relate to them. These are all things that any relationship, be it romantic or otherwise, would benefit greatly from. If you ask me, the world would be a lot better if people viewed "nice" as a good thing and we all tried to be a little more "nice."

But don't take my word for it, let scientists weigh in:  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-nice-guys-finish-first/

"Agreeable individuals are not especially likely to let people walk all over them, either. No evidence supports the notion that nice people lack the self-esteem required to stand up for themselves or avoid being taken advantage of. Still, because our culture greatly values assertiveness, nice people may need to work harder to convince others that they have what it takes to be an effective leader."

[TeeDee]

There is a difference between genuine nice as in kind hearted, attentive & sweet vs. what most nice guys are:  doormats. 

At 53 you have to show some confidence & assertiveness.  You need to make your romantic intentions known from the outset.  Do not make friends with some woman & get to know her before asking her out.   That will get you in the friend zone.  You need to be flirty from the start. 

It's hard when you are depressed.  When I am depressed I can barely get out of bed, let alone be "on" to interact with others at a high level.  One of the best cures for depression is movement or action.  It feels counterintuitive.  When you are in a funk you don't want to do anything.  But that is when you must bear down & do something.  It doesn't initially have to be anything huge.  Sometimes just taking a shower is effort but you must.  When things are really bad I try to do something -- wash one dish, make the bed, clean the bathroom counter.   Just do something that shows effort & gets you an immediate result.  Build upon that small success.  

[Batya33]

37 minutes ago, ShySoul said:

Just about evey woman I've known has told me the opposite. They have told me that they dream of finding the nice guy that will be there to love and support them. The ones who are married will tell me they are happy they found a nice guy. They actively complain and are fustrated by the guys who don't treat them nice. 

Yes nice in that sense.  Very often when a person says another person is too nice they mean too passive.  I am not happy because I found a nice guy. I am happy I found a person who is a person of character and integrity, reasonably confident and with solid family values and a really strong work ethic and passion for his career. - I don't need "nice" - it's too generic/cliche/broad for me and I like to be kept on my toes so I certainly don't want the "yes man" type of "nice guy".  I want to be treated with caring and thought and respect.  Much more specific than "treat me nice" - but to each his own!

[Wiseman2]

32 minutes ago, TeeDee said:

  Do not make friends with some woman & get to know her before asking her out.   That will get you in the friend zone.  You need to be flirty from the start. 

Hitting on women at work is inappropriate especially when they already have BFs. It's not about PUA techniques (being a jerk to attract women) or "Mr nice guy".

It's about meeting single available women appropriately through dating apps and other appropriate social activities.

Or deciding that you only want very attractive women and snub the rest which is what you complained about 

Take some classes and courses, join some groups and clubs, volunteer, get involved in sports and fitness broaden your social horizons and have fun making friends and talking to women. 

[Armyguy368]

1 hour ago, ShySoul said:

Just about evey woman I've known has told me the opposite. They have told me that they dream of finding the nice guy that will be there to love and support them. The ones who are married will tell me they are happy they found a nice guy. They actively complain and are fustrated by the guys who don't treat them nice. 

Nice doesn't mean pushover. Nice doesn't mean you have no confidence or don't speak up for yourself. Nice doesn't mean passive or patronizing. Nice simply means nice. It means you care about people and try to help them. It means you show respect, both to yourself and others. It means kind, friendly, and polite. It means genuinely listening to others and doing your best to understand and relate to them. These are all things that any relationship, be it romantic or otherwise, would benefit greatly from. If you ask me, the world would be a lot better if people viewed "nice" as a good thing and we all tried to be a little more "nice."

But don't take my word for it, let scientists weigh in:  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-nice-guys-finish-first/

"Agreeable individuals are not especially likely to let people walk all over them, either. No evidence supports the notion that nice people lack the self-esteem required to stand up for themselves or avoid being taken advantage of. Still, because our culture greatly values assertiveness, nice people may need to work harder to convince others that they have what it takes to be an effective leader."

I agree ShySoul. I am not somebody that is a pushover or can be walked on.  I defend my terrority and my opinions at work all the time. I am a military guy with 31 years under my belt and have not gotten to where I am without pushing back and arguing my case with superiors when needed. I am a nice guy because I care about people and have empathy as well. Last week the woman at work is having issues with her long-distance boyfriend, it's coming to a close due to the distance. I was NICE enough to listen to her and help her with her racing thoughts, to comfort her. She is the one who said I am sweet and yes, she is the one I am attracted to, but she likes another guy in the office. I show respect to women because there are too many men out there that abuse women or are in a relationship and screw around with other women. Because they feel they can get away with it. Is that so nice to the other woman? No.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Armyguy368 said:

I agree ShySoul. I am not somebody that is a pushover or can be walked on.  I defend my terrority and my opinions at work all the time. I am a military guy with 31 years under my belt and have not gotten to where I am without pushing back and arguing my case with superiors when needed. I am a nice guy because I care about people and have empathy as well. Last week the woman at work is having issues with her long-distance boyfriend, it's coming to a close due to the distance. I was NICE enough to listen to her and help her with her racing thoughts, to comfort her. She is the one who said I am sweet and yes, she is the one I am attracted to, but she likes another guy in the office. I show respect to women because there are too many men out there that abuse women or are in a relationship and screw around with other women. Because they feel they can get away with it. Is that so nice to the other woman? No.

That woman is committed elsewhere still. How often do you pursue women who are unavailable to date? Do you like the thrill of the chase? I don't think many men abuse women.  I think it does happen -I wouldn't lead with that mindset -what's the point of setting up some strawman to compare yourself to? You do you.  It was thoughtful of you to comfort her -except you had ulterior motives, yes?

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Armyguy368 said:

 the woman at work is having issues with her long-distance boyfriend, .she is the one I am attracted to, but she likes another guy in the office

Unfortunately chasing unavailable women goes nowhere no matter how "nice"  or  tough you are. Perhaps reflect on why you are avoiding dating and relationships by buzzing around women who are in other relationships or have no interest. 

[Wonderstruck]

4 hours ago, Armyguy368 said:

Last week the woman at work is having issues with her long-distance boyfriend, it's coming to a close due to the distance. I was NICE enough to listen to her and help her with her racing thoughts, to comfort her. She is the one who said I am sweet and yes, she is the one I am attracted to, but she likes another guy in the office.

You didn't do this because you're "nice", you did it because you're that guy who's waiting in the wings, hoping to have a chance with her, even though she has made it clear that she is NOT interested in you.

That is NOT being "nice".

Also, women are not obligated to be interested in you simply because you're a "nice guy".

That's something that you should be, REGARDLESS if it attracts women or not.

[ShySoul]

8 hours ago, Armyguy368 said:

I was NICE enough to listen to her and help her with her racing thoughts, to comfort her. She is the one who said I am sweet and yes, she is the one I am attracted to, but she likes another guy in the office.

I'll go out on limb here and say that even though you are attracted to her, you didn't make a move? Because you didn't think it would be appropriate given that she is both coming out of a relationship and is interested in someone else? That is nice and is respectful. 

I'm also guessing you have never claimed that women should like you because you are nice. You simply are nice and do these things because that's who you are. You want to help people, you like seeing them happy. If anything, I'd guess you don't get nearly the credit you probably deserve and, even though that might make you sad at times, you're fine with it since you're not looking for the credit anyway?

I'll never understand how being nice got to be so controversial or have so many negative connotations. Nice simply means nice. It means being kind and respectful. It's trying to do the right thing and do good for people simply because it's the right thing to do. 

9 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I like to be kept on my toes so I certainly don't want the "yes man" type of "nice guy".  I want to be treated with caring and thought and respect

Those "nice guys" will keep you on your toes, challenge and surprise you far more then you think, all will being caring, thougtful, and respectful and not becoming a sychophant. 

[SooSad33]

Maybe these just aren't YOUR women.

If you're there to 'comfort' them.  That's not what they're looking for then. ( meaning, what YOU want & what they're looking for is different).

Are you maybe missing the 'signs'?  Eg. IF she is truly interested, you'll know it.  Meaning she WILL reach out, just like you do.  Is not all one sided, etc.

Also, you will drain yourself if you just go from one woman to the next to whomever will give you some attention 😕 , then yes, it's going to drag you down.

Have you been in a long-term relationship over the yrs or married?

 

[Kwothe28]

13 hours ago, ShySoul said:

Just about evey woman I've known has told me the opposite. They have told me that they dream of finding the nice guy that will be there to love and support them. The ones who are married will tell me they are happy they found a nice guy. They actively complain and are fustrated by the guys who don't treat them nice. 

 

Yes, women who are used to guys cheating on them or even worst beating them. But "nice" as defined by you is a bare minimum of that. Nobody wants an abuser. And everybody wants to be treated nice. And when people say "nice guys" they mean on Redditor mods "MLady" with a fedora guys. Who pretend to be nice but have an alterior motive to do so.

For example look at OP. He thinks "being nice" is listening to his coworker who he likes. And that alone should get him her affection. It doesnt work like that. Him listening to her is nice. Him listening to her just so she will like him is not nice. There is a matter of motive involved. For example if I give to charity, that is nice. If I give to charity so I would brag about it or so TV could make a skit about me, that is not nice. Do you get the problem with being nice and what OP was doing? That was opposite of "nice". Even with how you define it.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

Yes, women who are used to guys cheating on them or even worst beating them. But "nice" as defined by you is a bare minimum of that. Nobody wants an abuser. And everybody wants to be treated nice. And when people say "nice guys" they mean on Redditor mods "MLady" with a fedora guys. Who pretend to be nice but have an alterior motive to do so.

For example look at OP. He thinks "being nice" is listening to his coworker who he likes. And that alone should get him her affection. It doesnt work like that. Him listening to her is nice. Him listening to her just so she will like him is not nice. There is a matter of motive involved. For example if I give to charity, that is nice. If I give to charity so I would brag about it or so TV could make a skit about me, that is not nice. Do you get the problem with being nice and what OP was doing? That was opposite of "nice". Even with how you define it.

At least-more of a balance and transparency - "I'm sorry you're going through a rough time -I might be the wrong person to help because I have a bit of a crush on you -so how about we dial it back a bit and if you're in a place where you are ready to date please let me know." Also sometimes people don't bond with the people who helped during that time because it triggers bad memories plus perhaps they've overshared and feel weird about taking it romantic.

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, ShySoul said:

hose "nice guys" will keep you on your toes, challenge and surprise you far more then you think, all will being caring, thougtful, and respectful and not becoming a sychophant. 

I meant nice as in the "too nice"/too passive - and as mentioned I don't like broad terms about people -I don't call my son a "nice boy" except as a joke - I am specific either to him or in thinking of his good qualities "that was thoughtful of you to check in with your friend" and "that was kind of  you to want to help that man we passed in the parking lot"- I never wanted a "nice guy" and especially not in the way it is used to refer  to passive doormat.  A passive doormat won't keep me on my toes in a positive way.  

[Betterwithout]

Perhaps reverse-engineering your approach to women can help?  Try to determine the point in the conversation/relationship where the shift goes towards the friend zone.  Learn that tipping point and erase it from your approach.
The whole dance of attraction involves the keyword; confidence.   Many passive men can be "nice" but not confident enough to attract.
A larger majority of arrogant jerks will win out attraction to women because of their confidence alone.  Yes, they can be jerks and never hold a stable relationship if they continue on as jerks, but a jerk is more likely to have confidence than a passive guy from the get go and get those initial attractiveness vibes.
Just so I am clear, this DOES NOT mean be a jerk!!!  It means be confident with your words, your actions, your body language and eventually with your intentions.
You are going to need to find a way to strike the balance between the two.
If you don't have confident flirty vibe, you will always be friend-zoned.
Learn how to build confidence so it is part of your nature, and remember "faking" confidence has limited effect.

[boltnrun]

Perhaps you would match well with a woman who wants to be the "leader" in a relationship. 

Two examples. One woman I know said she exclusively dates passive men because, as she put it, "If I dated a strong man I'm worried I wouldn't get my way all the time." She wants to always do things her way and dating "Yes, Dear" types ensures this. And a good friend of mine is married to a very nice man who allows her to make EVERY decision including where he works and how much money he should ask for. She plans all of their trips. Decides when and where they'll eat. She even tells him what to wear. And he seems to be happy for her to tell him what to do. They've been happily married for over 20 years.

I don't know if you're the passive type, though. Or if, based on your previous threads, you just have a habit of telling yourself you're attracted to women who are already in relationships and tell yourself they don't leave their boyfriends to be with you because you're "too nice".  When in reality it's because they're not available to date. 

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Perhaps you would match well with a woman who wants to be the "leader" in a relationship. 

Two examples. One woman I know said she exclusively dates passive men because, as she put it, "If I dated a strong man I'm worried I wouldn't get my way all the time." She wants to always do things her way and dating "Yes, Dear" types ensures this. And a good friend of mine is married to a very nice man who allows her to make EVERY decision including where he works and how much money he should ask for. She plans all of their trips. Decides when and where they'll eat. She even tells him what to wear. And he seems to be happy for her to tell him what to do. They've been happily married for over 20 years.

I don't know if you're the passive type, though. Or if, based on your previous threads, you just have a habit of telling yourself you're attracted to women who are already in relationships and tell yourself they don't leave their boyfriends to be with you because you're "too nice".  When in reality it's because they're not available to date. 

I agree and I also know of couples like this.

[Armyguy368]

On 3/10/2024 at 6:31 PM, Batya33 said:

That woman is committed elsewhere still. How often do you pursue women who are unavailable to date? Do you like the thrill of the chase? I don't think many men abuse women.  I think it does happen -I wouldn't lead with that mindset -what's the point of setting up some strawman to compare yourself to? You do you.  It was thoughtful of you to comfort her -except you had ulterior motives, yes?

Well, I am attracted to here and yes she has committed to herself elsewhere. We talked like today and I see this ending. So in the long run I know it would be great for me to be in her mind. I am not expecting anything as I am searching at the moment for other woman as well.

[Armyguy368]

19 hours ago, SooSad33 said:

Maybe these just aren't YOUR women.

If you're there to 'comfort' them.  That's not what they're looking for then. ( meaning, what YOU want & what they're looking for is different).

Are you maybe missing the 'signs'?  Eg. IF she is truly interested, you'll know it.  Meaning she WILL reach out, just like you do.  Is not all one sided, etc.

Also, you will drain yourself if you just go from one woman to the next to whomever will give you some attention 😕 , then yes, it's going to drag you down.

Have you been in a long-term relationship over the yrs or married?

 

SoSadd: Its been a long time that I have been in a relationship. I find that I am not attractive for woman as I am bald as well, which effects my self-esteeem. I am learning to push away from her as its her choice what she wants to do. I have been in a long-term relationship years ago and have never been married.

[boltnrun]

Vin Diesel. The Rock. Christopher Meloni. Common. All bald. None of them are ugly or sub-par just because they're bald. Quite the opposite. 

Bald is in. Why not celebrate your look instead of being ashamed of it? And don't use "I'm bald" as an excuse to keep pursuing women who are not available to date. 

[Wiseman2]

22 minutes ago, Armyguy368 said:

 I am not attractive for woman as I am bald as well, which effects my self-esteeem.. I have been in a long-term relationship years ago and have never been married.

Sorry this is happening. Unfortunately unavailable people choose other unavailable people.

This seems to explain a lot about why you are chasing unavailable and uninterested women.

It's sort of rejection protection if there's no hope in the first place, as strange as that sounds. 

This may have a lot more to it than a head of hair. Perhaps you could explore that and the fear of relationships in therapy? 

[Capricorn3]

3 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Vin Diesel. The Rock. Christopher Meloni. Common. All bald. None of them are ugly or sub-par just because they're bald. Quite the opposite. 

Bald is in. Why not celebrate your look instead of being ashamed of it? And don't use "I'm bald" as an excuse to keep pursuing women who are not available to date. 

Totally agree!