Feeling left in the dust as a nice guy and lonely

[catfeeder]

On 3/11/2024 at 1:33 AM, ShySoul said:

Those "nice guys" will keep you on your toes, challenge and surprise you far more then you think, all will being caring, thougtful, and respectful and not becoming a sychophant. 

I hear. I just don't think it's necessary to defend good behavior. Nobody here knows you or the OP personally, and so nobody is characterizing either of you. What these woman ARE offering is some insight into what we tend to mean when we are talking amongst ourselves. I could sit across from any given one of my female friends as she asks about my date last night, and I can say, "Ah, he was nice..." She'd know exactly what I meant.

On 3/10/2024 at 12:33 AM, ShySoul said:

...There simply wasn't a mutual level of attraction. That happens all the time. There have probably been people who were attracted to you, but you only saw them as friends. You may not even be aware they had feelings for you. Reality is that we are only going to be attracted to a small number of people we come across, and a small number will be attracted to us. Finding the intersection of those two numbers, presents a small number of viable circumstances in the first place. 

Don't give up.

This ^^^ is the real deal. Most people are NOT our match. This is true for everyone, and it's natural odds. However, forming crushes on people who are not available has one common denominator--the person who does that.

We meet people to screen OUT bad matches, not to latch onto those and get heartbroken because we can't convert them into a suitable match. That's not 'nice' behavior, it's something else.

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, catfeeder said:

obody here knows you or the OP personally, and so nobody is characterizing either of you. What these woman ARE offering is some insight into what we tend to mean when we are talking amongst ourselves. I could sit across from any given one of my female friends as she asks about my date last night, and I can say, "Ah, he was nice..." She'd know exactly what I meant.

Yes that is what I meant too. Most people I know who like being around another person whether romantically or platonically more often describe their good qualities instead of "nice person" - "she's a blast", "she cracks me up" "he was so kind to offer to pick me up at the store"

OP I see you acknowledged you're pursuing a woman who is unavailable - it's great you're also pursuing other women but at least for me if I was interested in someone unavailable I wouldn't be as available to meet others.

Bald - it's a nothing burger.  I really loved the comment about celebrating it -yes!

[Coily]

Bald can be a struggle, it can be huge adjustment in your life; and one that not everyone is happy with or can embrace.

However when it hinders how you go about seeking relationships this may be an indicator of other things you need to deal with.

[boltnrun]

My hair is an unmitigated disaster no matter how much I try to get it to behave. I have a larger nose. I had small breasts during my younger years. I am average looking at best. None of that prevented me from meeting men and having relationships.

It's a myth that only the prettiest people "get" girlfriends or boyfriends. 

One of the best couples I know consists of a wife who's about 75 pounds overweight and a balding husband who has skinny legs and a pot belly. They're happily married and very much in love. 

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

My hair is an unmitigated disaster no matter how much I try to get it to behave. I have a larger nose. I had small breasts during my younger years. I am average looking at best. None of that prevented me from meeting men and having relationships.

Exactly the same so-called "flaws" And same exact "results"

[SooSad33]

15 hours ago, Armyguy368 said:

I find that I am not attractive for woman as I am bald as well, which effects my self-esteeem.

Ahh, well please try not to let that affect you.  There are tons of men out there with hair issues.  And if you look at some good actors even, they've gone bald and they still look good! 🙂 .

Maybe you can work on your 'self esteem', then if that's an issue, as often sadly, if we're negative, other people can pick up that vibe.

You need to go into something feeling good! 😉 

[tattoobunnie]

On 3/10/2024 at 5:08 PM, Armyguy368 said:

I agree ShySoul. I am not somebody that is a pushover or can be walked on.  I defend my terrority and my opinions at work all the time. I am a military guy with 31 years under my belt and have not gotten to where I am without pushing back and arguing my case with superiors when needed. I am a nice guy because I care about people and have empathy as well. Last week the woman at work is having issues with her long-distance boyfriend, it's coming to a close due to the distance. I was NICE enough to listen to her and help her with her racing thoughts, to comfort her. She is the one who said I am sweet and yes, she is the one I am attracted to, but she likes another guy in the office. I show respect to women because there are too many men out there that abuse women or are in a relationship and screw around with other women. Because they feel they can get away with it. Is that so nice to the other woman? No.

"Hi, I'm sorry. I care about you, and want to be there for you, but I cannot listen about your boyfriend anymore. I like you romantically, and feel you are best talking to a friend, not me."

I guarantee the other guy in the office isn't listening to her talk about other dudes.

Not too late to change the dynamic with honesty.

[Betterwithout]

On 3/11/2024 at 2:49 PM, boltnrun said:

Perhaps you would match well with a woman who wants to be the "leader" in a relationship. 

^^this.    I have a friend like this.  He is a great great friend of mine, but as far as leadership, he hands it all to his wife to "take the wheel" for everything....and that dynamic is fine with many couples.

I also like what ShySoul said.
"Reality is that we are only going to be attracted to a small number of people we come across, and a small number will be attracted to us. Finding the intersection of those two numbers, presents a small number of viable circumstances in the first place"

And on the baldness....
Own it.
Ask yourself, What is going to serve you better:
a) being bald and low self esteem
b) being bald and giving 0 f@$!  about it, and finding confidence through other assets

My brother is only 5' 7"  and sadly he never owned it and was convinced it was his short fall (pun intended) and he has very low self-esteem

[ShySoul]

On 3/11/2024 at 11:01 PM, catfeeder said:

I just don't think it's necessary to defend good behavior. Nobody here knows you or the OP personally, and so nobody is characterizing either of you.

I have been criticized and characterized for being nice. And I have seen otherwise good people change their behavior because they were were assumed to be something they weren't simply because they acted nice. So I will always stand up for nice people and emphasize that being nice is a good thing and something to be proud of. Again, in a harsh world, I think we can all use a little more niceness.

On 3/11/2024 at 11:01 PM, catfeeder said:

What these woman ARE offering is some insight into what we tend to mean when we are talking amongst ourselves.

What some women mean. That's also based on their own opinions, beliefs, experiences, etc. Other women will have a completely different take. In my expereince, women have always used nice as a compliment. Yes, there are plenty of other factors and it isn't solely about being nice. But nice is usually in their somewhere.

I think the difference is between what a word actually means, and the connotations people give to a word. If you choose to say nice in a way that refers to or indicates something else, then you're giving it a different meaning then what it actually is. If you assume, as was indicated previously, that nice people don't stand up for themselves, then you are using nice incorrectly. 

Perception shapes reality. If you choose to believe nice means something other then kind and respectful, then that's where your mind really automatically jump to when you hear the word. I prefer to take out the negative stigmas attached to words like "nice" or "shy" and turn them into something more positive and uplifting.

Really, it's all about just being proud of who you are. If you are a "nice guy" or "nice girl," embrace it. Go with it. Be proud of it. You are who you are and the right person will love you all the more for it.

[Batya33]

I don't think it's nice to be nice when the main motive is to gain approval from others or because you're too insecure to say no -so you're being more of a martyr.  That's too passive and/or self-absorbed.  Most women I know and know of the last 40 years or so who are referring to dating and refer to a guy as a "nice guy"  often refer to that in a conversation about "well, I'm not attracted to him but he's soooooo nice".  For sure not always.  Or it's a generic throw away comment not anything specifically thoughtful about the person or a specific thing he did that was kind. 

But that's just my experience living in two major cities for 57 years -but only dated in the first one for over 20 years. Obviously the term may be used quite differently.

I think people who are kind and thoughtful from a perspective of reasonable confidence and are also kind and thoughtful to themselves including with boundaries are people who healthy people like to be around and gravitate to.

[ShySoul]

On 3/12/2024 at 10:07 AM, tattoobunnie said:

"Hi, I'm sorry. I care about you, and want to be there for you, but I cannot listen about your boyfriend anymore. I like you romantically, and feel you are best talking to a friend, not me."

I guarantee the other guy in the office isn't listening to her talk about other dudes.

Being the supportive friend who let a girl work out her feelings for someone else while I listened, actually helped me once as it showed the girl I resepected her enough to give her the time to make her decision and do what was best for her. It also worked the other way when I was the one hung up on a girl and a friend who had feelings for me tried to help me threw it. It showed me how much she must have cared about me if she was willing to put her feelings aside to help me get what I thought I wanted. In the end, it helped me to see she was the far better (and nicer) choice.

Armyguy, just keep being you. Eventually you're luck will turn around and you probably won't be able to stop women from being into you. And don't worry about baldness. If my balding, overweight father could get married (twice), there is hope for anyone. 😉

[ShySoul]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I don't think it's nice to be nice when the main motive is to gain approval from others or because you're too insecure to say no -so you're being more of a martyr.  That's too passive and/or self-absorbed. 

I think people who are kind and thoughtful from a perspective of reasonable confidence and are also kind and thoughtful to themselves including with boundaries are people who healthy people like to be around and gravitate to.

Which is my point. The point of being nice nothing more then to be nice. It's being kind and respectful to be kind and respectful. It's helping others just to help others and because you don't want to see them struggle. 

The motive is not gaining approval or being a martyr. Yes, there are some people who will do this. There are some people who will weaponize being nice. Just as there are some people who will weaponize any characteristic, quality, or topic. The incel types disguest me, because they have seemingly poisoned a "nice" word in "nice." But these people aren't actually nice to begin with. The true nice people just want to help others however they can.

Batya, we've clearly had very different experiences. Clearly, you're way works for you as my way works for me. In my experience, I've seen people absolutely beat themseleves up because they were told they were too nice. In reality, that had nothing to do with anything and it was just a convenient excuse for a situation that wasn't suppose to be. That actually hurt their confidence more. And it's not like a person who is naturally "nice" can just stop being that way. So I started to build up their confidence by pointing out all the great qualties they have and how being nice is a good thing that many people do indeed look for. That helped cheer them up, gave them the boost in confidence they needed, and their own natural strengths carried them the rest of the way. It's also essentially what one woman did for me, telling me something along the lines of "Girls do go for a nice guys and you are a nice guy. Don't ever change." She was one of the smartest, sweetest people I've ever known. So if she thinks it, who am I to argue? 😁

[boltnrun]

I think some people use the word "nice" when they're trying to let someone down. As in "You're a really nice guy, but I'm not feeling a 'spark'." And unfortunately that can add a negative connotation to the term "nice", as though being nice is a bad thing! 

A.woman who likes you and wants to get closer to you will not regard being "nice" as a negative. 

[rainbowsandroses]

4 hours ago, boltnrun said:

A.woman who likes you and wants to get closer to you will not regard being "nice" as a negative

I agree with this^.  I'm a woman who likes "nice"!    But I also like when that same man has a bit of an "edge," its a balance.

'Edge' meaning bold and confident, not just with me but with everyone, doesn't take BS from people including me! (when warranted), stands up for himself, is assertive with a strong backbone.  Dances to his own drummer and makes no apologies for it. 

That balanced with kindness and niceness and a certain gasp, sensitivity, is the winning ticket to this girl heart, assuming there is genuine chemistry/energy happening between us. 

Honestly, when all that is there, I can fall in love with a man because of his kindness and niceness, it melts my heart. 

For me, when the "edge" I just described is not there, I tend to view a man's niceness as disingenuous.  I don't fully trust it.  

That may not be his intention but it's how it may be perceived.  I know of other women who feel the same. 

Again it's about balance.. Strong, bold, confident, assertive combined with well, nice!   Caring. 

EDIT:  OP shave your entire head!! It's sexy as hell and I'm NOT the only woman who thinks so!!

 

 

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, ShySoul said:

Which is my point. The point of being nice nothing more then to be nice. It's being kind and respectful to be kind and respectful. It's helping others just to help others and because you don't want to see them struggle. 

We totally agree. I wrote that many times. I agree with Bolt on how it is - misused- alternatively used in dating - and I think too often it's used as "too nice" to mean the ulterior motive/doormat situation.  It's a shame. We agree it's great to be nice as you described it -and I did too!

Edited to add I also like how Rainbowroses described it -without the balance -the edge -I start to doubt it's coming from a place of reasonable confidence.  And in dating that doubt if it continued was -for me -a major turn off. I did know women who enjoyed leading their partners around like as if they were a cute nice puppy.  They liked the control and making all the decisions.  They loved the yes man they chose. It made me kinda sick (I mean whatever turned them on -just not for me).

I think reasonably healthy people with reasonable confidence want someone who is thoughtful, kind and nice especially for marriage or the long term - as long as it's coming from a reasonably confident place.  What that "girl" told you is a typical throwaway line -nothing to argue with -one of those sweet cliches like you write in a yearbook -mine has them too "you're so nice don't ever change!!" 

Obviously -don't change treating humans with respect and kindness from a good place and with reasonable boundaries so you're also treating yourself with respect and appropriate boundaries.  

I'm tired of the assumption that women who decline "nice" in the doormat way want a bad boy.  Nope.  Or want someone who is not nice. Nope.  

[catfeeder]

18 hours ago, ShySoul said:

... I prefer to take out the negative stigmas attached to words like "nice" or "shy" and turn them into something more positive and uplifting.

I think that's great and very nice. Of course, almost every word means something different to different people. If my friend asked about my date, and I said, "Ah, he's very monied." She would know what I meant. In my case, it would mean that money is what HE values, and so he'd made quite a show of it.

My point has merely been to stress that holding up a 'nice' banner to describe oneself isn't an automatic plus. If I describe my date as 'nice' it says absolutely nothing to my friend beyond the fact that I've used no other adjectives--which says everything.

[Coily]

"Nice" is such a minefield these days. From ulterior motives, to polite guy who lead around by the nose; it all really depends on who is saying it. Kind of like the word creep.

From my experience men use nice more often as a way to cut through the fluff to express someone as polite and quiet. a Building block to get to know someone better.

Conversely from the women who have used "nice" around me, it runs the gambit. Though one constant is it's a way to write a guy off, for one reason or another; while being politely and insultingly ambiguous.

[mylolita]

OP! 
 

My husband is bald! He’s 41! 
 

When he was boxing in his younger days he shaved all his blonde curly hair off anyway! I always think he reminds me of Joe Rogan 🥲 Beefy and bald! He has stubble too! 
 

When you’re bald, I think a good manly balance is a bit of stubble. Go with it! Go rugged! You have to embrace it or get a hair transplant because the inbetween dislike and unease with yourself won’t make life happy, and people pick up on that! 
 

You could go for a generally more masculine edge in clothing as well. That can set off a bald guy or a guy with a shaved head like my hubby! 
 

You just gotta keep on! Not everyone is going to be your cup of tea and vice versa. You want someone who is head over heels for you anyway, so a woman being tepid her you is a blessing because you can take that as a sign it wouldn’t work, move on and use your time for other dates! 
 

Edit to add, he is also 5’8’’ and it never bothered him - he’s been out with a much taller woman at a few points as well. 

It’s corny but confidence is the attractive thing! 
 

x