Well… I guess that is that.

[rainbowsandroses]

25 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

And my therapist constantly says that I lead with an open heart, a gentle soul, and a thoughtful disposition..

Ugh.

My advice is find a new therapist, this one sounds like a quack.

Not that you're not any of those things, I don't know you so couldn't say.

Neither does your therapist unless they're a good close friend or family member who have known you and interacted with you for a very long time outside the therapist's office.

Again, that's not their job. And doing so only indulges a mindset that is quite self-serving, which is not helpful to you at all imo experience.

Their job is to help you understand and manage your feelings in an effort to help you HEAL and grow, move on and learn for next time.

Anyway, nuff said from me, good luck moving forward.

 

[boltnrun]

Again, your perspective is not the same as hers. Obviously, or you two would still be a couple.

No one said you are not "kind". We just said you two apparently didn't mesh as a couple (again, from HER perspective). Some people felt some of your BEHAVIOR could be interpreted as controlling. That doesn't mean you as a whole are controlling. 

[catfeeder]

49 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Going 15 below the posted limit actually is an issue. It drives most people over the deepend. They are forced to pull out and pass. I know it drives me batshyte crazy. 

Yep. It’s like dropping a giant doorstop onto the highway. It’s dangerous as hell, not only in terms of a collision, but it incites the kind of road rage that can get someone shot.

This isn’t a finger wag you need to defend, Whirl, but if you’re not too clamped down on righteousness, it can give you some insight as to WHY Dr. Lady may have been anxious about this. If that matters at all.

[Seraphim]

1 minute ago, catfeeder said:

Yep. It’s like dropping a big doorstop onto the highway. It’s dangerous as hell, not only in terms of a collision, but it incites the kind of road rage that can get someone shot.

This isn’t a finger wag you need to defend, Whirl, but if you’re not too clamped down on righteousness, it can give you some insight as to WHY Dr. Lady may have been anxious about this. If that matters at all.

I know for me, I get out from behind those people at the first opportunity and as I go by usually give them a look of where did you get your license?  Out of a crackerjack box? Here we have about 8 million people all trying to get somewhere so they really don’t appreciate it . 

[MissCanuck]

47 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

we are not that incompatible

From your point of view. Evidently, she didn't see it this way in the end. 

50 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

likely had little to do with me as a person.

I think it had a lot to do with this, actually. I don't mean that she sees you as somehow flawed or that something is wrong with you, to be very clear. But it was obvious that she sees you as not the right match for her. I know you want to adhere to the idea that she is avoidant (and that may be a part of it), but you also need to listen to what she herself told you about the differences between you two being too much to continue a relationship. That has everything to do with you as person, as much as it has to do with who she is as a person. 

You didn't align in ways that are important to her, or she wouldn't have decided to end it. 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

19 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

you also need to listen to what she herself told you about the differences between you two being too much to continue a relationship. That has everything to do with you as person, as much as it has to do with who she is as a person

Exactly.

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

It's NOT one person's fault, it was the two of you together. 

 

[Jaunty]

13 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

As for the car driving thing… I don’t believe I was intending to be controlling or manipulative in the traditional sense…

 

 

Generally, people who are controlling and / or manipulative by nature and / or nurture are not doing it intentionally.  It's the way they work.  

You've described in detail many circumstances when you've been controlling with this woman.  You simply do not perceive it that way.

[catfeeder]

3 hours ago, karakos said:

...To her, and probably to many others, you come across as impatient, intolerant, critical, judgemental, and oversensitive who has almost no self accountability.

Really? I'm not sure where you'd get all of this or why you're leaning in so hard.  

Did you create this brand new account with 2 posts directed at this one user just to bash him?

There's a desire to be helpful, and then there's something else. You sound like something else.

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, Whirling D said:

 I don’t have that problem with my other friends.  

This is why you're incompatible. Your other friends seem to get along with you better.

You seem to march to your own drummer and that's your right, however other people may not want to conform to your nonconformity. 

As a musician, you know all about "being on the same page" so that there's harmony rather than noise. 

It's understandable breakups hurt, and sometimes a bit of sour grapes is part of processing that, but you don't have to bash her this much. After all, she did try to get along with you and she does care about you.

Certainly reconsider watching all these "get your ex back" videos. After 5 months and many challenges, sometimes it's just not viable.

[Whirling D]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

This is why you're incompatible. Your other friends seem to get along with you better.

You seem to march to your own drummer and that's your right, however other people may not want to conform to your nonconformity. 

As a musician, you know all about "being on the same page" so that there's harmony rather than noise. 

It's understandable breakups hurt, and sometimes a bit of sour grapes is part of processing that, but you don't have to bash her this much. After all, she did try to get along with you and she does care about you.

Certainly reconsider watching all these "get your ex back" videos. After 5 months and many challenges, sometimes it's just not viable.

I don’t feel like I am bashing her at all. I am telling stories. True stories that are fact. There’s very little opinion to the stories. I tell you what I said, I tell you what she said.  Is that really bashing?

[Whirling D]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

This is why you're incompatible. Your other friends seem to get along with you better.

You seem to march to your own drummer and that's your right, however other people may not want to conform to your nonconformity. 

As a musician, you know all about "being on the same page" so that there's harmony rather than noise. 

It's understandable breakups hurt, and sometimes a bit of sour grapes is part of processing that, but you don't have to bash her this much. After all, she did try to get along with you and she does care about you.

Certainly reconsider watching all these "get your ex back" videos. After 5 months and many challenges, sometimes it's just not viable.

The get your ex back videos that I watch are produced by trained mental health professionals that know why people interact in certain ways, and suddenly distance in ways similar to the doctor lady.  
 

they are licensed mental health professionals, most of them have years of experience with this kind of dilemma.

 

also, I never asked her or expected her to conform to anything. I would have liked if she allowed me to be who I am without putting any pressure on me to be different. 

 

[Whirling D]

2 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Really? I'm not sure where you'd get all of this or why you're leaning in so hard.  

Did you create this brand new account with 2 posts directed at this one user just to bash him?

There's a desire to be helpful, and then there's something else. You sound like something else.

Thank you. I suffered a warning for calling this person out for this rubbish.

[Whirling D]

2 hours ago, Jaunty said:

Generally, people who are controlling and / or manipulative by nature and / or nurture are not doing it intentionally.  It's the way they work.  

You've described in detail many circumstances when you've been controlling with this woman.  You simply do not perceive it that way.

Well, believe what you will, because I believe you are biased and have some sort of agenda that I will never understand.

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

. I would have liked if she allowed me to be who I am without putting any pressure on me to be different. 

Exactly. You want to be accepted as is but unfortunately that's what made you and this particular lady incompatible.

Which is why she set you both free to be yourselves with other more compatible people.

She knew when to let go and not try to elbow her way through a relationship butting heads and wearing each other down. 

[Jaunty]

19 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Well, believe what you will, because I believe you are biased and have some sort of agenda that I will never understand.

??? Why the personal jab?  I'm responding to the things you post.  You go into minute detail and those of us who have read them have a great deal of information about your perspectives on things. 

Honestly, it would serve you well to take some of the reflections from posters that you do not find flattering into consideration.  In my experience, those are the ones that usually warrant the most attention.   

 

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

I don’t feel like I am bashing her at all.

That's all well and good but like I said earlier, it's important to be aware of how others perceive your words and behavior as well. 

Not doing so can be viewed as dismissive like you're unable to appreciate the perspective of others as it relates to you. 

That only your perspective matters. No one else's.

For example:

Dr. Lady:  You can be controlling at times. 

You:  I don't see myself as controlling at all, you're wrong. 

Can you not see how dismissive that sounds?

It's the same here.  Wiseman perceives your words describing her as bashing.  I do as well.

But you don't, therefore we are wrong for having this perception.  That's how it comes across.  It's dismissive.

This type of attitude can put people off especially women with whom you're romantically involved. In this case Miss Dr. Lady.

Try understanding others' perceptions of you even if negative. Goes a long way in getting along with people, everyone not just women you get involved with.

Just something to consider along with everything else posted. 

Take care Whirling.

 

 

[Tinydance]

17 hours ago, boltnrun said:

These "online therapists" you're pinning your hopes on have not discussed your specific situation with you. You can't take what they say as a prediction of what will happen in your situation. They did NOT say you two specifically are likely to reconcile. They're speaking in a very general sense.

I noticed you tend to soothe yourself by watching online videos. Again, these are very general and are not speaking to your specific situation. 

I was literally thinking the same thing. You are listening to generic advice and analyses from these "online therapists". But it's actually not therapy because you're not actually talking to them. They don't know you or lady doctor and they are not speaking about your particular situation. I understand you might be in the denial stage of grief. But you don't seem to accept that lady doctor doesn't actually want to be with you and yes you are rewriting your own narrative. You said something like: "These online therapists seem to think that lady doctor and I can reconcile". They don't think that because they're not talking about your particular situation. 

[Tinydance]

I'm sorry but I think you actually don't have much introspection. I'm not saying you need to change who you are and obviously you can't just change your personality. Maybe you mean well and some of your behaviours do come from a good place. I think a few posters have picked up on the fact that you sound like a stubborn and opinionated person. I also do actually get the sense that you can be condescending but I think you don't realise you're doing it.

I have a friend who I've written about on the forum before and we used to be pretty close. She has a really strong personality and is very blunt and opinionated. She actually thinks the same thing as you that it's fine to keep giving your opinions and commenting on everything because "you're allowed to have your opinion". Yes you are allowed to have an opinion. But you also have to realise that if you're strongly giving your opinions and they're judgemental or negative, it's not going to go down well with everyone.

In regards to lady doctor prescribing psychiatric medications. I don't know about other countries but here in Australia general doctors do prescribe psych meds if they feel it's appropriate. I don't think that just because a general doctor isn't a psychiatrist that they literally have no idea about psychiatric medications. If lady doctor has been a doctor for a long time then she probably has had many patients with mental health struggles and has a lot of experience with it. You say you weren't trying to start an argument or anything, you were just giving your opinion. I think giving your opinion in that instance was undermining your girlfriend's competency and knowledge as a doctor. I think you need to understand that sometimes your opinions aren't actually asked for or appreciated.

I also remember you writing some posts about your daughter and your ex-wife and how you were having conflicts with them. You wrote something like: "I'm annoyed my ex - wife and daughter don't recycle and don't listen to me. My ex- wife should be doing that because it's parenting 101". That really stood out to me and I even said this to you at the time. Some things are not "parenting 101" but they're just personal beliefs and ways of doing things. This is a very opinionated person thing to say. Usually opinionated people think that everything is: *My opinion* 101. In other words, my opinion is fact and gospel truth. When in fact maybe it's not and it's just subjective.

To me it actually seems like you are in fact stubborn. I'm not saying lady doctor isn't, but she's not writing this post. There are examples in your posts of you being stubborn. Maybe not deliberately in the sense that you weren't literally thinking: "I need to be stubborn". It's an automatic thing. Like, you were asked to drive 35 miles but you consciously drove 39. You didn't think you should drive 35 so you didn't. That's actually what stubbornness is. Being asked to do something and you deliberately don't do it because you just don't agree with it.

[NighttimeNightmare]

A lot of this reads like covert narcissism.  Not diagnosing anyone, just an observation 

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, Whirling D said:

and suddenly distance in ways similar to the doctor lady.  

I don't think this was sudden in the least.  I think from the first hello -and even before the first meet- she knew this was a huge long shot for many reasons -her reasons.  You knew that too and partly it's what fueled your interest in her -the challenge, the thrill of the chase.

That's also why she kept accepting flowers from other suiters and being active on the app.  She had a foot out the door at all times.  Blurting out the words at an odd time doesn't mean it's sudden just like it wasn't sudden really when Harry proposes to Sally in the movie.  (or proposal-like, I forget).  I've made many decisions like that -huge huge decisions where when I finally made the decision it was "sudden" but had been a long time coming.

I suddenly ended a relationship in 2005 when I realized he still had an anger disorder and he told he he was no longer seeking therapy for it (I saw it in action -not at all directed at me, not at all harming anyone else).  He knew already I was not pleased that he was still not ready to be exclusive after 3 months of dating - but needed a bit more time - but when I ended things I never told him that was the last straw -I'd planned on waiting another 2 weeks to see if he was "ready" (he didn't know this either).  I didn't want to get into it about his anger disorder -maybe he guessed that was the reason who knows.  From his perspective it was "sudden."

[Batya33]

I like what Tinydance said about perspective.  My teenager - said to me recently his friend's mom is calmer than me with her son -(same age) even when he is very rude and disrespectful to his mother (no the boy doesn't change his behavior, but mom stays calm!  I like this woman very very much by the way -she is a great person in every way). 

I own that I'm not Chill Mom.  My husband is Chiller Dad - but he believe me expresses frustration and has his moments with our teenage son.  After further conversation my son said that moms are supposed to be calmer than dads.  (Have zero clue where he got that notion from lol!!). 

And when we arrived home after our long, arduous walk with his huge duffel bag -he said "you know, I think I said all that stuff to you because I'm just really tired." A few hours later he said out of the blue "do you think you're a great mom?" I said "I don't think of it that way.  I believe I am a mom who does the best she can with all her heart and soul."  He pressed me again to evaluate my parenting - and I refused -I said -I am not going to compare myself to others like that - doing my best as I said is who I am.  (When he is not tired or moody he tells me I am a great mom or a "solid mom").

A day later he hung his head and said "you know you were right that I need to get to bed earlier and need more sleep -I feel so much better."  I am so heartened by this insight and humility and I ask you - can you do the same with, like, the car/driving stuff or the handyman stuff or even - what you see as entitled might come from some of your biases?

Perspective - you think you are kind, patient and tolerant, you think she is high strung, you have oodles of preconceived notions about women who are professionals and have $$ and oodles of preconceived notions about your role in a relationship with a woman you see as of some different status because of her $ and/or profession/career/home ownership, etc.  You're not a teenager. My son can't see how his bias informs his withering views of my parenting.  (Until I whipped up a provolone/tomato/herb omelet after a school overnight in the rain -then I was uplifted and a Great Mom).  It's ok he's a tired moody teen.  It's not ok when you keep your blinders on IMO. 

I don't think you're seeing this with any objectivity and you have this notion that because you're a bohemian, creative, artistic person who just wants to fill the world with kindness, good karma including to delivery people (yes I support you in not letting her harass a delivery person if indeed she was), those "elitist" professionals who work their tails off and have and want lovely homes and things in addition to having a fur baby should recognize how you will save them from their stubborn/rigid/materialistic selves.  It's not that extreme but I sure get a whiff of it - a whiff.   

I'm not dating and I'm not married to a guy where what you are experiencing in your personal relationshhips happen in mine but my mom-teenage experiences lately I think have more than a bit to do with your situation.  (Except he kind of can't break up with me...)

[Whirling D]

OK, I think this will be my last post about the specific topic, of stubbornness, or condescension, or controlling behavior. You guys aren’t part of the relationship, haven’t been there, and haven’t experienced what went on between the doctor lady  and me. No differently than you discourage me from not paying too much attention to online therapists, it’s almost inappropriate for you to assume you know what has happened, what will happen, why I did what I did, why she did what she did.  I’m not really on here for that kind of debate or scrutiny.

Ultimately, I came on here for support, and perhaps to purge, but not really to be at the hands of armchair therapists to think they know what’s going on, and what each of us are thinking, not to mention come up with flaky opinions of who I am, whether I’m condescending or not, or whether I’m controlling. If anything, I think that sounds hugely controlling from many of you. Not all of you. I’ve often enjoyed coming on here to tell this story and to get feedback. Once again, it’s wearing thin.

And as far as online therapists, I’ve never said that they said the doctor lady and I will get back together. They almost all say, there is a strong likelihood that she will reach out, likely confused, but definitely still wondering if she made the right decision. She did reach out, and I do believe they are correct. My biggest priority right now is what to do about that. nobody here seems to want to talk about that. They just want to make judgments about how controlling I am or how bad my behavior was. OK, suit your own narrative. 
 

As for my own therapist.  She is a PhD psychologist with a background in addiction and trauma. I’ve been seeing her for over two years. There are things that I believe are lacking, but her judgment is not one of them. She picks up on things pretty closely, and I believe I do a pretty good job telling her both sides of every story. I try to tell her clearly what I said, and did, supported by why I think I did those things, and then I tell her what the doctor lady said, and I try to look at both sides of why I believe she did and said those things. 

Then my therapist gives me feedback. She doesn’t tell me it’s perfect. She doesn’t tell me I did all the right things. She’s very honest and doesn’t take well If she thinks I’m trying to spin something toward my own narrative.  But she is pretty clear that she thinks that a lot of my perspective on things are pretty spot on and pretty well thought out.  Unlike what many of you say.  She almost always says that my perspectives on situations are thoughtful And show a relative amount of clarity and introspection, both on what I believe my behavior was, and what I think perhaps my partner’s was.  She almost always encourages me to use my own gut and intuition, which she almost always believes is fairly accurate.  She is a PhD psychologist from a major US university. If you think you can come up with stronger a valuations, go get your own credentials.

I can tell you the things that she doesn’t think I do well, but I’ve already told those on here at some point, not that many of you actually validated when I did that. Maybe you did maybe you didn’t. It just seems like many of you would rather put down what you think are my invalid characteristics, rather than support, when I believe I do well, which is what my therapist seems more eager to do. Why might that be? Only you will know that. 

She was quite happy with how things were going with the doctor lady, right up until the time it ended. She was impressed with how well her and I were talking about things and trying to come to understandings with our different styles of interacting in the world. She felt a fair amount of Hope, as did I.

She doesn’t really get involved in the notion of attachment styles. That isn’t an area she has a lot of background in, so we don’t really discuss that much. I tell her what I’ve learned, and why I think it’s relevant, but it doesn’t really go much further than that. She likes to concentrate on why I did what I did and how do I move forward. 

she has never indicated that anything that I’ve said, or done with the doctor lady has ever been “controlling” or “manipulating”, at least any more than what anyone might be in a typical relationship.

Yes, I feel defensive about this. I don’t like to have to defend myself when I feel like I’ve worked hard to be able to not be controlling or manipulative. Has it been perfect with the doctor lady, of course not. But some of you make these general assumptions that are hurtful, but they’re not based in fact or reality. I’ll trust my therapist in those regards. You should lose that angle. 

I’ll repeat, and I’m going to say this for the last time, I don’t believe I’ve done nearly anything hugely controlling and manipulative with the doctor lady. Virtually nothing. You can spin it whatever way you want, yeah, I had some underlying motivation for going 39 rather than 35. That’s ridiculous. I already told you my reasoning, it wasn’t a big deal. It shouldn’t have been a big deal. But it was. I’m not gonna lose sleep over it. That’s not the hill That relationship should die on. Nor should be how I used a product on her deck. Or how long my hair is. Or whether I’m religious. Or whether I have enough money for vacations, which was arguable, despite us never really getting past the initial parts of those conversations.

I do get that the doctor lady’s values and may not align perfectly. I also believe that there are plenty of successful couples that have the same kind of deficits, they learn to interact in a positive way, through hard work, and through dedication, and they put a plan into action that makes each of them happy, you know why? Because they care about each other enough to do that. I think I think we were on our way to perhaps being able to come to some of those conclusions… Until we weren’t.

Attachment disorders. Many of you seem to not want to believe what they are or how they affect how we respond in relationships. This theory is based on scientific study. It’s not conjecture. It’s not armchair psychology. It is a relatively new field of study, and there is strong validity in my argument that this break up had very little to do with how I did or didn’t treat the doctor lady, how she did, or didn’t treat me… But was based on subconscious fears of intimacy, and abandonment. You can have your doubts all day long, and say that this is denial with me, and you may or may not be right. That’s your opinion and you can think what you want. There is validity to that theory, and I guess only time will tell.  Maybe the doctor and I will get together again, maybe we won’t. You have no way of knowing, no more than I do. 
 

Also, for many of you to say that we were incompatible lacks facts. Just because somebody breaks up with you doesn’t mean that we are inherently incompatible. Look back on the attachment disorder perspective. That is one very possible if not likely theory. Only time will tell. You can theorize all you want. You weren’t there. You didn’t experience what we did, therefore, you’re not in a great position to speculate.  I didn’t come on here for you to speculate. I came on here for support and suggestions moving forward.

As for me, being controlling, and manipulating… I’ll finish it off by saying this… I don’t feel overly opinionated or stubborn. I feel like I’ve worked hard to get where I am, and I have my own perspectives on things. I don’t force them down peoples throats, but I am going to have opinions on things, and I’m going to say them. For example. I didn’t really give much of my opinion when I talked to the doctor lady about her prescribing psych meds. It wasn’t a long conversation at all. All I did was tell her that my general practitioner does not prescribe, and that I was surprised that her practice did, and wondered what the differences in perspective might be,. You could theorize that what I said was condescending, or judgmental, you’re welcome to those opinions. To me, it was a simple conversation comparing situations. No greater motivation or outcome needs to be assigned to it.

Some of you seem really intent on poking holes in anything that I say that supports an opinion. Why don’t you ask yourself why that might be? Is it because you don’t like it when somebody states an opinion that differs from your own? Might you feel insecure that someone actually has an opinion that might deflate something that you thought on your own?  two people should be able to have a conversation, and just because you don’t like what someone else says, doesn’t mean that the person offering the opinion is condescending or judgemental. It’s a friggin conversation with two people having different perspectives on it. If you don’t like what the person is saying, it doesn’t mean that it  is condescending or judgmental or even manipulative that they are saying it. In fact, I would suggest the opposite. If someone gets annoyed or offended that one has offered an opinion that seems to differ from what they believe or understand, and then they get upset about it and call the other person judgmental or stubborn or condescending, I think that reflects more on the supposed victim than it does on the person who simply offers a perspective on something that may differ than yours.  I don’t have a lot of interest in that kind debate. I’m going to ignore it from here on in. 

my focus, and my responses moving forward are going to be limited to what to do moving forward. For example, I heard from the doctor lady a couple of days ago. We exchanged two messages, but it didn’t go anywhere. Theory suggests that she is still likely reconsidering the break up. That’s pretty much universally agreed-upon.  What to do next is the real question, or if to do anything.  Many of the resources suggest to let her leave the conversation and not try to force it. Her last text to me did not ask a question. It answered my question. Now I have to figure out whether I should text her back and ask her another question, or wait it out until she notices, my absence, and feels the strength to say something to me. Lots of theory suggests waiting for her to reach back out, but with the strong likelihood that she is a fearful avoidant, she may be thinking that she has already hurt me, and perhaps doesn’t want to hurt me more,  or she may be just too anxious about the whole situation and can’t bring her self to do it, despite feeling that she probably does want to talk more and reconnect.

As I said 1 million times, I don’t necessarily believe that her and I are destined for destruction. We care about each other deeply, I have no doubt of that. If she fell out of love with me, which is possible, but I’m not even thinking this to be true, then I know what the outcome will be. I don’t believe that. I do believe that she is struggling with something internally, and perhaps even biologically. I don’t know what to do about that, so I’m doing what all of the therapists online, and yes, they are therapist, suggest, from years of study and experience in such matters… Give the situation time. 

That is what I’m trying to do, but I’m not really sure about strategy. They say there are strategies that will increase the chance that reattraction might occur. That’s what I’m trying to maximize, along with evaluating whether or not, this is the right fit for me, which it may very well not be. I believe her need to control is exponentially higher than mine. That could be problematic, but I’m also willing to try to come to a balance with her that could be mutually satisfying.  I’m pretty confident The doctor lady doesn’t wanna break up with me. You can say or believe what you want. You weren’t there. Could I be delusional? Maybe. But I don’t think I am. I think she’s struggling with mental health issues, and I get it, I have my own.

Do I think that’s a dealbreaker with either of us, I don’t. Could this be the wrong thing for me to move toward? It might be. But I think there may still be chapters unwritten. I’m not gonna put my life on hold to find out, i’ve already had brief chats with other ladies online that I’m considering pursuing… but I am going to continue to take steps forward to see where those paths might lead with the doctor lady.  I hope those of you who are in my corner, so to speak, will wish me luck and hope for the best on my behalf. My little baby soul could use it. 
 

 

[boltnrun]

52 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Is it because you don’t like it when somebody states an opinion that differs from your own? Might you feel insecure that someone actually has an opinion that might deflate something that you thought on your own?

Classic projection.

53 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

And as far as online therapists, I’ve never said that they said the doctor lady and I will get back together. They almost all say, there is a strong likelihood that she will reach out, likely confused, but definitely still wondering if she made the right decision. She did reach out, and I do believe they are correct.

Again, these "online therapists" are not talking about your specific relationship (unless you have paid each of them to have a private session...is that the case?)

54 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Theory suggests that she is still likely reconsidering the break up. That’s pretty much universally agreed-upon.

By whom?

54 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

They say there are strategies that will increase the chance that reattraction might occur.

Who is "they"?  And "Doctor Lady" is a highly educated professional.  Any "strategies" will be glaringly transparent to her (as they are with pretty much all relatively intelligent women).

I don't expect you to alter your thought process or even consider another opinion.

57 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

wish me luck and hope for the best on my behalf.

Of course.  I don't believe anyone who has responded has wished ill upon you.  I know I haven't.

[HeartGoesOn]

Thread has run its course...Closed,