Well… I guess that is that.

[Whirling D]

4 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I don't think you should keep blaming the antidepressant medication. It's very common to take psychiatric medications or have some mental health struggles. A lot of people on psych meds who manage their mental health well have been in long term relationships. You've also been making posts about this woman basically right from the start. You were talking about your doubts and various issues and that was way before she changed her medication.

I agree with you that she seems to be controlling and a micro manager. She shouldn't have been asking you to drive her car or help her if she didn't like the way you were doing things.

On your end though, you seem to be opinionated as well and resistant to being asked to specifically do something. For example, you challenged her that she prescribes antidepressants to her patients and that she should send them to a psychiatrist instead. I understand you were just giving your opinion but she's an actual doctor and you aren't. She has a strong personality so obviously she didn't appreciate being challenged about her competence as a doctor. I think this is where you were rubbing her up the wrong way, because you were strong in your opinions and she's strong in her opinions as well. 

Also you said that you didn't slow down to 35 miles per hour because "most people wouldn't do it". The point is, SHE asked you to do it. You seem to me to be resistant to actually doing what you were asked. And she's the sort of person who wants people to listen to her and do what she asks. I'm not saying you have to do that 24/7. But if you were asked to slow down to the designated speed limit, why was that a problem for you? 

I honestly don't see how it was going to work because you both sound like mire dominant people. That's usually very likely to cause a clash.

For example, I have an acquaintance that I used to be close friends with. Her personality is really dominant and blunt and opinionated. I have a stronger personality myself so we clashed really bad. But she's best friends with two of our friends who are quiet, more shy and introverted. She told me that she was talking to her psychologist and said: "I'm having issues with Tinydance. But I get along really well with our other two friends." And the psychologist was like: "Are they more passive?" And my friend was like: "How did you know lol" 

I think for friendships and relationships to work, people need to be a good fit. For example, if one person is super talkative and wants to dominate conversations, the other person needs to be more quiet and a listener. If someone is more dominant, the other person gas to be more submissive and agreeable. I'm not saying submissive in a sense that they're being abused. But in the sense that they're genuinely chill and it doesn't bother them to go along with things. E.g. If they were asked to drive the speed limit, they'd be like: "Cool, I'll drive the speed limit."

Just to clarify… I never did challenge her about prescribing psych meds to her patients. I thought about it to myself a few times, but never really said anything negative to her about it at all. I may have said that my GP doesn’t do that and will only refer to a psychiatrist. That’s all. 
 

I don’t think I really challenged her about much of anything at all. I didn’t deliberately go 39 in the 35 mile an hour zone. I think it just kind of happened by itself, because I was figuring 39 was pretty safe, or maybe even that I just didn’t get the car down to 35 mile an hour quickly enough. I don’t remember. I wasn’t challenging her deliberately at all. 
 

I’m trying to think if there were any times that I remember that I deliberately did some thing against what she was saying, and even with cleaning her deck… I don’t recall her ever saying definitively that she wanted me to follow the directions. I guess I figured that she wouldn’t care if I try to do something that might work out just as well, and not have to use chemicals, like she knew I would prefer not to do.

I know a lot of you guys kind of see this as being kind of an adversarial relationship, but it really wasn’t. I guess it could be said that she must’ve found it more adversarial than I did, or she wouldn’t have broken up with me. Maybe it’s cognitive dissonance on my part. Hard to say.

I was watching a video before I went to sleep from this therapist (an educated professional, like a lot of online therapists are these days), that I just found online, and he was talking about exactly what I have been experiencing, and he says he sees it in his practice all the time… That people that are disorganized attachment sufferers will very often create reasons in their head to separate from partners who treat them well, just because it gets too hard for them to maintain the closeness, because that’s the way their brains have become wired and accustomed with others. 

She is painfully shy and awkward with most other people. She will often avoid having to do things so she won’t contact other people because she feels so self-conscious. At least that’s what she would always say.  She mistrusts almost everyone and has a very hard time connecting with almost anyone. Particularly former partners.

I almost thought about posting this one particular video, because it was so profoundly familiar to what it feels like I experienced with the doctor lady, and it’s one of many videos like this by licensed professionals, who describe what people who are like this often do.

Think about this. She was with a guy for 15 years that was emotionally unavailable, so she says, and another guy for three years that she only saw once every two weekends, that she also said was pretty much emotionally distant… Yet she’s with someone that takes up space in her life every single day, and seems to really do well with, but she breaks up with within a few months? There’s some thing that doesn’t add up here. 

I guess I could be just making up excuses to satisfy my own hurt, and ego.  I’m not buying that, I don’t think. This lady and I have been BEST FRIENDS for months, talking pretty much twice a day. Every day. Yada yada yada. As the therapist in the video said, you know what you experienced, and you know that she loved you. Others will doubt you on that, but you were there and saw how she looked in your eyes and responded to your touch and spoke to you when you were close. you can’t fake that.  I’m not imagining that. I know what I experienced. I know what I have seen. 

Lots of people are affected by intimate relationships like that. If you think about people that you know that have seemingly ended relationships out of the blue like that… it’s not hugely uncommon. It’s not unreasonable to believe that there are people out there that are too emotionally distraught to sustain, a close relationship, because their brains are just not wired to be able to deal with the day-to-day ups and downs that go along with being close to someone. The video hit on this almost exactly how I experienced her. Maybe I’ll go back and find it and post it on here,  it’s really eerily familiar. Call me naïve and heartbroken, I don’t know. It’s just the only thing that makes sense in my puny brain. 

if you are interested in any of the kinds of things that I have been talking about, this guy is really good. He is really hard to understand, because he has a thick accent, but he has some really good points about people who have avoidant attachment disorders. I think I am a little bit like that myself, so I also relate to this video for my own perspective.

The video says that people who are avoidantly attached will often focus on negative aspects of their partner and nitpick, in a sort of effort to break down the relationship, and find ways to create distance.

That starts around the seven minute mark… He goes on, in multiple videos, to say that it’s very common that an avoidant might love you, and you know this, but then they break up with you for seemingly strange reasons… And that’s because their souls cannot manage the emotional expectations and emotional bandwidth, if you will, that comes along with that kind of closeness and intimacy. I’m telling you, I feel it in my bones that this is what has happened.

I have absolutely no doubt that she loved and still loves me. None. I just don’t think she could deal with it.

But at the end of the video, this therapist says something very important. He says: you want to be careful whether it’s prudent to actually want to get back together with this person.  He says that there is a strong chance that you probably could rekindle the relationship, because avoidants experience push-pull emotions, and once they break off in the middle of their down cycle, if you will, they will quickly start to miss what they had, because, even as an avoidant, everybody wants connection and to be loved, and understood. They/we are no different. he says, that eventually avoidance may begin to fantasize about the past relationship and miss the connection, and therefore will start to feel a draw towards rekindling. And in one of his videos, he says this can happen many times.
 

The borderline lady was way off the charts this way. I knew she loved me, as well, and painfully so, but she would break up with me about every 3 to 5 weeks for strange reason that she concocted in her own head.  It was even more strange than this situation, and more debilitating in so many ways.
 

So, despite watching many videos, that characterize disorganized attachment disorder, it doesn’t change the facts.  In a sense, she told me she fell out of love with me, although she didn’t use those words. “Lost enthusiasm“. OK, I’m sure that happens. But I’m equally sure that many of these videos are describing pretty closely what I experienced from her. but it also doesn’t change the fact that I’m here by myself jilted and frail. Not even sure I have any gas left in my tank to move on. 
 

It’s hard for me to imagine, given how insecurely attached that I’ve been my whole life, to experience something like this, and be able to even emotionally survive it. People like me spend almost our whole lives, looking to find someone that we feel totally connected with, and feel like we actually have a future with.

I always knew this situation wasn’t perfect, and I had my own capacity to nitpick, kind of like the video says. That’s because I think I have avoidant characteristics as well. All online therapists, including my own, will point out that people usually fall along a trajectory, in terms of characteristics like attachment wounds. Most people don’t necessarily fit clearly in one category or another. I am mostly an anxiously attached individual, which is pretty clear from my stories. She is mostly an avoidant, and, as I mentioned many times, I remember seeing her teary-eyed, I believe it was the second time we were up at her, Beachhouse, when she said she had done some research and found that she fit exactly in the profile of disorganized attachment.

I was so proud of her when she was telling me about that, because I was happy that she was doing the research and trying to understand her emotional background like she was. I didn’t really know much about disorganized attachment back.  I just knew it was part of the avoidant spectrum, and I sensed from what little that I knew that she was correct. 

It’s only been, since she broke up with me that I’ve been doing more research on disorganized attachment, and finding that she was right, and she fits pretty far into that category.

It could also be argued that this was a long time coming, and I just wasn’t seeing the signs, or she wasn’t showing me the signs. Probably the latter, because I’m very perceptive, and she even said that.

Right after she sat down at the table to break up with me, and she said something like… “You’ve probably noticed that I’ve been pulling away a little bit“ or something like that. And I agreed that I noticed that she had been a little more distant. And she said that, I am really perceptive and smart like that and could probably notice that she was struggling. 

I just thought she was kind of taking what avoidants need, which is space and time away to organize their emotional needs. I did think that maybe she was pulling away, but I never in my life would have expected it was because she felt she wanted to break up. Ever.

But I guess everyone that’s ever been jilted, tries to find reasons why it happens, and tries to fit their former partner in a category that meets their own narrative. Maybe that’s what I’m doing here, maybe that’s what’s happening. Maybe I’ll find out in the next little while if she reaches out, which is what all of the resources seem to point to, or maybe I won’t, because no one will say that there are definitives.  
 

But everyone says, and I think I know intuitively, that I have to move on with my life. If I can even do that. I am in a stage where I’ve really lost a lot of hope, and this relationship ending is going to be really hard on my self-esteem and my belief that I can actually be partnered and be happy, or even find somebody that would be willing to partner with someone like me, which was part of what seemed so unbelievable about the doctor lady. It always felt like I had struck the Goldmine, when I thought about the fact that I was lucky enough to have her and know her. Despite what I might’ve been saying on here from time to time about having reservations. 

I did have reservations, and we did have conflict, but for the most part, I felt so incredibly fortunate to have found her. It was a struggle for me, and it hit up against really hard parts of me, mostly because it was imperfect. But I was able to get beyond a lot of those struggles and see that she was a lovely human being that had so much love inside of her to offer, and she wanted so badly to connect and needed to connect. It was so obvious. that’s why this strikes so hard. I know she loves me. It’s been obvious to me all along that she wants to connect and wants to love. I’m just not sure she is in the right headspace to do that, at least at this point right now. Who knows what the future will bring.

But as this therapist very smartly, articulates… I have to be sure I know what I am up against and know what I want with her, because if I am doing the work to understand myself, and try to heal my attachment wounds, which I’ve always been trying to do, but my ex partner is not, even in the event that she does want to rekindle the friendship, we will likely, if not undoubtedly, end up in the exact same space, when she crashes again, and once again finds reasons to push away someone she loves. 
 

thank you for reading and thinking about all of this on my behalf. If anything, if even one person can relate to what has happened here, and find some sort of comfort or understanding in the cyclones of the emotional fall out that has resulted, then I guess it has been worth the time and effort I have spent researching this and talking about it on here. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

I agree with the others. I'm getting a whiff of arrogance on your part as you scramble to find some convoluted reason[s] why this didn't work. Many breakups have poor timing/circumstances even if it is thoughtfully "planned"  - especially because two people are involved with one likely to feel blindsided to some extent.  This was a short term relationship and the last month or so long distance like and the first month or so she was still getting flowers/on dating sites, etc. 

I was quite a catch in a number of ways and I never chose to go to these lengths or even do the "his loss!!!" sort of thing including the guy who ended things abruptly after 5 months right before he was supposed to take me on a short trip for my birthday. 

Then sent me flowers the next day to "apologize".  I could have gone where you are going and thank goodness I didn't -because Mr. 40 Year Old Reformed Player ready to marry -simply never fell in love with me/didn't want to marry me in the future (I suppose -I mean he didn't see potential I guess), and 6 months later -he did and married her (not flawlessly -he wasn't entirely loyal but they're together apparently happy almost 20 years later).

  I could have gone to town on how he used me/never had a serious LTR/something wrong with him/maybe he lost all that weight with diet meds that made him crazy - all a huge stretch/full of word salad and google searches.  It becomes at some point really self-absorbed arrogant -how could he not fall in love with me -I'm still fertile/younger, I'm a great catch, he introduced me to his friends/family/they all loved me and on and on.

It's a bitter pill to swallow sometimes I get it -pun intended -get over yourself a bit ok? Hurt and feel the feels but this horrors of horrors about human nature and elitist women and after all I did for her and all the meals and hinging her door so she wouldn't be unhinged -come on.  

I agree with the Wiseman approach and how it was echoed with others - reduces stomach acid for sure.  I'm sorry you're hurting.

[Whirling D]

Here is another excellent video from this fellow that describes the dynamics of both anxious and avoidant attachment disorders.
 

I see myself in a lot of, but he’s describing, and I see the doctor lady, as well.

If you are with somebody who is either anxious or avoidant, particularly avoidant, this video is also really illuminating.

 

[catfeeder]

15 hours ago, Whirling D said:

… So I guess, I’m just really wondering if perhaps her medication could have something to do with what happened with her? Why would she be so quick to completely eradicate someone that she would probably agree was her best friend? We spoke twice a day, and there was no indication she wasn’t thoroughly enjoying the interaction. Why would somebody want to basically erase that, unless they were feeling somewhat isolationist or self-destructive?

I can’t imagine it, really.  It just boggles my mind.

It doesn’t sound like this was a quick decision for her, Whirl. The two of you were out touch for the better part of a month. She could have chosen to stay in touch during that time, but it sounds as though she used it as a contemplation period, instead.

Sending pics and bringing home gifts demonstrates that she was thinking of you, likely waffling a bit. But some of the reasons she gave you involved a sense of loneliness in not being able to operate as a couple in ways that she envisioned herself enjoying a close partnership.

Living close enough to easily spend time together that needn’t involve overnight stays as a necessity, which she may have viewed as too disruptive a price to pay for mid-week companionship instead of simple dating.  Enjoying pricey travel together that involves not only being able to afford the luxury, but also to afford the time away from obligations.

When she attempted to push these desires aside in favor of enjoying your company, this may have caused some anxiety and stress from stretches of too-much-togetherness over longer periods of time than she could have otherwise enjoyed over smaller doses, and so she came out sideways as a jerk. And most jerks hate recognizing themselves as jerks, and this raised her defenses and caused her to act like an even worse jerk.

So she may have struggled with the all-or-nothing nature of the times you spent together, where she could enjoy the time up to a point but then felt the kind of suffocating pressure an introvert can feel during forced socializing without enough breaks and room to breathe herself calm.

And yes, add to all this that she was struggling to find the right doses and schedule to optimize her meds, and this is likely how that mine field got planted.

Again, I’m so sorry, and I don’t view any of this as your fault or even hers, necessarily. I just think it all contributed to her decision to free both of you from what wasn’t working for her, even though you both tried.

[boltnrun]

I think she WANTED it to work.  I think she was TRYING to make it work.   Hence the gifts, the video calls, the nice dinners, etc.

But wanting something to work isn't enough for it to actually work.  And no, continuing to try isn't a smart idea.  Sometimes one has to face reality and realize no matter how much you try, it just isn't the right fit.  

[catfeeder]

15 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

…the last two months you saw her a total of one week…That is A LOT of time apart for such a short relationship up to that point. 

Then in early October she ended it.

Exactly my thoughts, but minus whether she met someone else or not— it just speaks of a lot of contemplation time, and so it wasn’t as out-of-the-blue as you characterize it, Whirl.

Her crying session revealed the stuff she wrestled with, and while she may have opted to put those issues aside in favor of trying her best to reconcile those honest and straightforward desires, the reality of such a long span of time apart was, in fact, a reality.

During September she could have opted to bridge that gap by staying in contact or inviting you to join her trip, but she did not do that. And rather than make her break official over that time electronically, she chose to see you in person to deliver her decision.

So this doesn’t sound like something she chose impulsively during your visit, but rather it was a decision she formed over the course of a long absence.

While this isn’t your fault or a reflection on you, it speaks of her own private needs and desires not fitting with what your the limits of your relationship could fulfill.

[Batya33]

I, too, wanted to point out that she ended things in person when she had a great excuse to do so while neither of you made enough of an effort to see each other during that time period.  My husband and I were most often hundreds of miles or more apart for months at a time both with demanding careers working far more than full time, I was so often on 24/7 call.  And we made time to see each other every 11 days for at least a couple of days at a time. He would fly home -we came from the same city, or I would fly to him or we'd meet in the city where he had a conference. 

One time or more he flew to where I was on a business trip.  Really hard with logistics and sometimes we'd spend half the time at his place in his living room doing our own work but we were together.  It mattered.  We also spoke daily but together -was very different.  In a good way.  

[LootieTootie]

On 10/6/2023 at 8:15 PM, Whirling D said:

I was clearly able to make her happy in the honeymoon period, whatever that means, so I certainly know that I am capable of making her happy. That couldn’t have just been by chance. And there were no big masks of mine that were removed after the honeymoon phase. I think I was pretty consistent all along. Can’t say I think that she was.

Hi WD,

I want to clarify my last post. Honeymoon period is when you meet someone and you think 'wow we both just click' and you are giddy and can't stop thinking about this other person. During this 'high' you also ignore the flags even tho you are aware. The high does wean off slowly, but you're still somewhat giddy about the thought or fantasy of the other person being the one. Think that's what happened with you and dr. lady. She really did try to make it work with you, but she always had her doubts. & so did you. I think thats why you both were still happy, until you weren't.

Once the honeymoon stage starts waning, people's true colors starts to show. I think in the end, she finally couldn't ignore her doubts any more and hence had a good cry in front of you about it. The cry "that came out of nowhere" - she took off her mask that night. The many times she barked at you, mask came off telling you she's not jiving with you. 

I also think that when you lectured her for a whole hour about her behavior while she was trapped in the car with you, you took off your mask. You can be needlessly and suffocatingly critical without considering that people don't have the bandwidth. A lot of things can be said effectively with a few sentences without having to go into a monologue. & I also recalled you posting here about you & dr.lady will have a talk about an issue, and then there was a follow-up conversation how that talk went.  This can be emotionally and mentally draining and exhausting for a lot of people.

As wiseman said, you both are high-maintenance individuals (you more on the emotional end) and it may have finally came to a head that dr.lady couldn't any more. 

Also forgot to add, I hope you heal and maybe take a small break before you get back to OLD.

 

 

 

[Batya33]

Following up on this post - I'll share an anecdote. When my son was 4 he misbehaved in some way at home.  I said to him "come over here (to sit by me on the sofa), let's have a talk about your bad choices."  He looked at me horrified  and said NO!! NO "TALK"!!!"  

Also you know life is short.  Too many TALKS and you miss so much fun and moments. Sometimes waiting 24 hours to see if that thing truly still bothers you is a much better plan IMO.

[boltnrun]

I know you have insisted she enjoyed the "talks" and gave you positive feedback afterwards.  It seems she was appeasing you in an attempt to duct tape this relationship together. As Bono says, "you can sew it up but you still see the tear". 

[MrMan1983]

Hey Whirling,

I don't have much to add to the above posts as there's a ton to unpack there but just wanted to say I'm really sorry to hear it didn't work out, you both gave it a very good shot and tried to make it work but unfortunately the incompatibilities in your personality types appeared to be too much even with such feelings for each other.

Going to be a difficult period of time for a while, and you'll feel a lot of Shoulda Woulda Coulda's like we often do after a break up with someone we really care but please try not to blame yourself for any of this or spend hours analysing what you could of done differently, obviously good to learn from certain situations for the future but don't be mean to yourself about any of it. You're both good people who tried their hardest to make it work.

[Batya33]

I don’t think the issue is his lack of a lot of $. It’s the reasons why plus his decision not to find a job with a higher salary / not work full time at this point. It’s his financial values not just his current situation.  It’s a problem for her. Not all women. Women and men care about financial stability and financial values when in their goals for a long term partner these things are important.  She kept trying to ignore that they were important to her. They are important to many people but not all. 

[boltnrun]

Whirling, you have a lot of deal breakers for me. But for another woman they would not only NOT be deal breakers, they would actually be preferred. Unfortunately this lady was not one of them. Despite the fact she obviously cares for you a good deal. There are people who I care for dearly but they wouldn't be the right romantic partner for me. 

[TacticalLinguine]

Thanks for coming back and giving us an update, Whirl. 

[rainbowsandroses]

9 minutes ago, TacticalLinguine said:

Thanks for coming back and giving us an update, Whirl. 

Did I miss something?  😳 

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Did I miss something?  😳 

I think she meant by making this post in general.

[rainbowsandroses]

13 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think she meant by making this post in general.

Lol, reading it again, I think you're right!  My bad. 

   

[Whirling D]

16 hours ago, MrMan1983 said:

Hey Whirling,

I don't have much to add to the above posts as there's a ton to unpack there but just wanted to say I'm really sorry to hear it didn't work out, you both gave it a very good shot and tried to make it work but unfortunately the incompatibilities in your personality types appeared to be too much even with such feelings for each other.

Going to be a difficult period of time for a while, and you'll feel a lot of Shoulda Woulda Coulda's like we often do after a break up with someone we really care but please try not to blame yourself for any of this or spend hours analysing what you could of done differently, obviously good to learn from certain situations for the future but don't be mean to yourself about any of it. You're both good people who tried their hardest to make it work.

Thank you, Man… it’s good to hear from you… Hope all is going well in your pursuits…  😊😊

[Whirling D]

11 hours ago, karakos said:

Hello, I've been following your story and I wasn't at all surprised to see it didn't work out for you, in fact I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.

The only thing I do find surprising is why you are looking for reasons why it failed, while you've already answered those questions yourself, with a good amount of help from the lady doctor. You've got more closure than most people get.

I don't have all that much to add to what has already been offered by the experienced posters here other than a few random thoughts that came to mind as I read about the crash and burn.

You oughta use this as a learning experience. Take some self accountability for what went wrong here or you'll repeat the same problems in future relationships if you even get the opportunity, clearly you have struggled to get even this far.

You are hypersensitive, controlling, and hypercritical. Telling her that your doctor refers his (or her) patients to a psychiatrist rather than prescribing the antidepressants is an insulting, obnoxious, inflammatory comment no matter how you try to frame it. It is not your place to question her skills, her experience or her training and by what you said you did exactly that- and again you may very well be reading this and thinking "I did not question her clinical skills!" and if so, let me just say you've got a boatload of work to do on your self perception.

The whole "don't tell me I'm driving too slowly" is way over the top. Of course she should point out that you absentmindedly dropped 15 mph below the speed limit because you apparently can't concentrate on driving and having a conversation at the same time- which is rather odd in of itself but much worse because you can't handle some helpful guidance from your front seat passenger. Nothing at all wrong with her valid suggestion to speed up, everything wrong with how you reacted and it points to the much deeper issue of your inability to take even the mildest perceived criticism. Say "thanks I got distracted and put your damn foot down" rather than "I don't want you to tell me how to drive!". See the difference? Your attitude cuts off communication by creating an unpleasant stressful situation where your partner has to second guess what she can and cannot say to you and if it's worth the potential backlash in exchange for making what they feel is an important point.

At the same time, her getting upset because you drove 39 mph when she suggested you drive 35 mph is also an over the top response- she is not without her issues either, and she was already on edge because of the prior issues, at least one of which was directly related to how fast you drive. When you put your two personalities together, both of you having severe insecurities, the anxiety, the depression, all of which magnify every bad experience, along with the need to control the situation, well you know the expression "you can't both get your hands on the top of the bat". Someone will always lose. Yours was more of a competition than a supportive relationship despite the things you did to help each other out- her with the "trinkets", you with the helping mom with the ER thing that you made such a big deal about- sure it was nice, and expected from a boyfriend but it pales in comparison to the bad stuff that was ongoing.

She was having doubts for a while and pulling back, you responded by also pulling away, the time apart gave things more time to simmer and fester without any positive interaction to offset it.. you then basically exploded and told her its your way or the highway- and there's no way she would ever allow herself to be in a relationship where you call all the shots which is why she ultimately pulled the plug. There were serious problems that probably weren't fixable but things could have gone on for quite a while- but your outburst was like driving the car with the failing engine off a cliff. It wasn't actually a mistake- you did both of you a favor for putting it out there and getting the rather expected response. There's another expression that comes to mind that is a good learning experience- be careful of the response you are trying to illicit, you may not get the one you want. It was your intention to make her aware of the problems and how you wouldn't put up with them much longer- and whether you meant it or not you were basically telling her she had to do most of the heavy lifting- and that was never going to happen.

You don't have much money- and that's a big problem for most women. They want to at the very least know they're taken care of, and as things currently stand, she'd be the one taking care of you- or going on vacations by herself, which probably wouldn't happen if you were in a long term relationship which is what both of you are clearly looking for. She's going to travel, and buy nice things while her life partner sits home because he cant afford it? How's that going to work out for you two? Now the money thing is not necessarily a dealbreaker but realize that you've got to compensate for that huge negative and you have a lot less slack in other areas. In other words, rich guys can often be douchebags and their women will stick by their sides even in the worst of times. Broke, controlling, overly sensitive guys such as you simply do not have that luxury.

Finally- the one thing you did right- was to accept the breakup gracefully, by respecting her wishes, packing your things and leaving without doing the typical begging and pleading- which only makes things worse on so many levels. No, the dumper won't think "well the dumpee didn't fight me on this therefore it was a good idea". Dumpers do not thing that way. If you had begged and pleaded- they would have simply lost any remaining respect for you and the outcome would be no different even if they gave in temporarily and "took you back" because they either have no backbone, or they really believed the dumpee actually became a whole new person in the 2 weeks following the breakup. In fact- the rare times a successful reconcilation may happen is when there is an amicable breakup with none of that messy back and forth. Both parties go in their separate directions and perhaps the dumper- and it must be the dumper- ultimately doubts their decision, misses the dumpee and reaches out to try to reconnect. If this should happen realize it won't be anything more than a temporary second honeymoon that will surely crash as did the first one- unless you fix what's broken in your own head, and she does what's necessary in hers. The difference is, her tolerance is clearly lower than yours, because despite your relationship ending outburst, you would have stayed the course. So should the opportunity occur, you're gonna have to make some serious concessions, do the heavy lifting and "fake it til you make it" and at least act like you aren't overly critical, sensitive, and controlling. And you won't like that at all, in fact it might not even be possible for you to do it without being miserable- and she'll smell it like a shark in the water. But again, that probably won't ever happen- at least with her- but this will all come back to some degree with whomever else you might meet. I'll end this with yet another of my favorite expressions- adapt, or die.

Although I appreciate your input and much of what you said, I have to say, I am a bit annoyed by some of the things that you mention… Much are said without proper context, and without proper information.  I should ignore it, because, as you say, I am hypersensitive.
 

First, for about the first three months, I didn’t say a word to the doctor lady about her repeated snarky comments about how fast I was driving. Not a peep. It took a while for me to put together a way of addressing it, that I thought was proactive and nonconfrontational. I believe I did that. I’m not sure if she was buying it. I think I went over that, but not sure.

So let me get this straight, you find it odd that I was doing 55 in a 70 mile an hour zone, because I was concentrating on conversations I was having, and also I am used to driving my own car which has adaptive cruise control, which controls the speed automatically based on speeds in front of you? That’s odd to you? Good thing I don’t have to drive with you then… Clearly you are also willing to judge people for that.  Nice of you.  Probably happened about four times in the six or so round-trip drives that we did going up to her Beach house.  Was not something that was happening each and every time. And yes, I do have a hard time multitasking when I have somebody else in the car. If you think that’s odd, that’s a you problem. 

As far as talking to the doctor lady about what my doctor does for psych meds. It was a conversation. I didn’t say anything condescending to her about it, I used it as a comparison, that I was surprised that she prescribes meds, because mine won’t.

There are quite a few things that her practice does differently than the one I go to  does, and they were brought up in conversation.  I didn’t argue with her about it. I didn’t see it in a condescending manner. It was just a fact I pointed out. That’s a conversations often involve.  And truthfully, I have every right to think what I want, and I do think it is unusual that a primary care would be prescribing psych meds, without an in-depth knowledge of psych meds. Would you want your primary care treating cancer if you had it? Really? that’s what specialties are for.  At least that’s how my primary care practice, handles, specialties, and I have a lot of regard for that.

lastly, I barely said a controlling thing to the doctor lady the whole five months that I knew her, other than sticking up for myself, and trying to find proactive ways to not be triggered by poor behavior. In the instances where she was getting after me about something, it was not subtle, and it wasn’t particularly kind. Maybe many people would not be bothered by that kind of interaction. I’m not one of them. I work hard to not bark at people, and I try hard to treat people kindly at all times. The only times I ever said anything derogatory or heated with her are the times that I told you about. 

Second lastly, you and many other people presume that the whole relationship seemed to resolve around the negative things that I’ve told you, but that’s far from the truth. There are so many wonderful things that her and I did together, talked about together, and experienced together… But those seemed outside the scope of what I was on here to accomplish. 

Here’s my accountability for you. I’m too hyper sensitive. I have a right to be. I have a right to live my life the way I want, and if that means not having to deal with someone barking at me for stupid stuff, then I have a right to live my life that way. 
 

And I definitely have been thinking about how I approached the big talk on the way home that night. I was very triggered, because I spent pretty much an entire day with a lady that was triggered in her own way, barely smiled the whole day, everything was nitpicked and controlling. Would you not want to have some sort of conversation about that with someone you care about?

The part that I regret is not thinking more about what her needs might’ve been in that particular moment in the car. I should’ve said something like, “Dr. lady, I love you, and I want our relationship to be built on positive interactions, and problem-solving, rather than us barking at each other“. Instead, I framed it almost as a quasi ultimatum… “Doctor lady, I won’t be able to survive this relationship if we can’t figure out how to stop the negativity”. Those are subtle differences, but they are enough to perhaps offset someone being triggered, who may be sensitive, and she is obviously sensitive.  I wish I would have been less triggered and being able to frame the conversation a little more proactively. It shouldn’t have been a dealbreaker, one way or the other. A non-triggered person should have been able to hear exactly what I was saying, and own the behavior.  She may have been in capable of doing that in that particular moment. I can’t say.

That’s really it. I don’t have a huge a lot else that I feel I regret doing or saying.  Most people here know the rest.

I worked very hard to be good to the doctor lady. Tolerant. Patient. Kind.  I think she knows that and I think it meant something to her. And truthfully, I’m not really sure that I buy that her nasty demeanor necessarily have anything to do with me.

I’ve been doing a lot of research on disorganized avoidant attachment disorders, and nasty behaviors and nitpicking partners is a strong characteristic.

I find myself having characteristics of disorganized attachment disorder as well, so I don’t say that without some introspection. I think the difference, at least, in this particular relationship, is that I was able to refrain from verbally nitpicking. She’s not quite there yet, and that’s triggering to me, being the ultra sensitive one that you accurately point out I am. 

You also make it sound like being ultra sensitive is like some sort of terrible quality that needs to be eradicated at all costs. The truth is, although it’s not great, it doesn’t just arrive on its own. It’s part of the condition that many people grow up with, often the result of experiences they’ve had growing up.  It’s no different then somebody that has a physical disability.  Would you say something condescending about a physical disability?  Mental disabilities are not nasty habits. Your comments show a lack of empathy in those regards.  

 

[Wiseman2]

It's surprising she continued to let you drive her car especially since it and driving became sort of a battleground. But as you mentioned, it was a power struggle on many levels sort of exemplified by driving.

[Whirling D]

Here’s my recent update:

I encountered what was likely the worst week I have had in memory.  I wasn’t sleeping much. I was eating crappy food and drinking lots of coffee which makes me sick.  All I could accomplish was watching videos to try to understand what went wrong with a woman that I adored, but could not understand.

Thankfully, I had a gig on Saturday, and my best friend from Canada came down that day and stayed overnight, so I was able to extract a little bit of friendship and peace, which really helped alleviate the absolute darkness I was feeling.

Most of the videos were related to attachment disorders, relationship difficulties, and how to re-attract exes under similar circumstances.  That’s almost all I was capable of doing for the entire week. 

I decided to go completely no contact. Most all of the online therapists that seem to be experts in relationship theory believe that no contact is the best way to perhaps limit collateral damage.

I may have mentioned this before, but going no contact when someone breaks up with you allows the dumper to begin the grieving process. Almost all of the online theorists believe that most of the time break ups are not because someone doesn’t care for you, it’s usually because they start to feel less secure for some reason. That adds up.

They say that when you go no contact, the person who did the breaking up goes through stages of grief, and after an undetermined amount of time, they begin to start questioning  whether or not they made the right decision, and they tend to start thinking about the positive things that went on in the relationship.  Pretty much all of the therapists say, and these are licensed mental health practitioners, that if your relationship was mostly loving, and there weren’t any major faux pas, there is a high probability that the ex will reach out at some point, just to see if they can validate whether they made the right decision.

Sure enough, after one full week of absolutely no contact, out of the blue, and unexpectedly, I get a text from the doctor lady. I was shocked. I thought that maybe I would hear from her, but not after only a week. I couldn’t imagine what that meant.
 

All she said was “hi Dervish, I hope you are well, and I hope you have a nice time with family at the wedding this weekend up in Canada. Dr. lady“. That’s all she said. 

I texted her about six hours later, which was recommended, and just simply said “so, is this your way of gloating that you are in Florida right now?”  She responded by saying “well, it’s raining here, but warm“ my next text to her asked her simple question about her family members where she is, but it was left on read.  That was a bit disappointing, but I’ve experienced that from her before.

She eventually answered that question today and followed up by telling me that her nephew came to visit where she is staying in Florida and they went out to the aquarium, which was nice” I didn’t respond yet today, and I am wondering if I will.

The online therapists say that there is definitely a strong chance that her and I could reconcile… But I would have to be willing to confront my own part in it, which I’m trying to, but also ask myself a question as to whether or not this is what’s right for me. That I can’t yet answer.

My kid thinks it may be a pity text… Just a way for her to be kind and check in and make sure I’m OK. Online therapists suggest that it could be a way for her to subtly show that she’s thinking of me, maybe she misses me. I think that may be true. I miss her, as well. 

I am not one that believes that her and I are completely incompatible. I think we would have our work cut out for us, but I think that trying to understand our attachment needs, and trying to come up with strategies to prevent us getting on each other’s nerves is within the realm of possibility, knowing that we both care for each other fairly profoundly.

I also don’t think the money thing is quite as a dire as some of you may think it is… Particularly when we had a conversation about that probably back in June, and she seemed OK with some of the things that we talked about. I had said to her back then that whoever I partner with is going to make it much easier for me to come up with more on hand cash to do nice things like vacations. I think that’s typical of many families, when one of the partners could not do much on their own, but once they split finances with somebody, it becomes a bit easier. I don’t think my situation would be much different.

Multiple online therapists also suggested that the reasons that people say that they are breaking up with you are often not really what’s going on. Most of the time the partner has something else going on. They also say that even if the partner does reach out, that doesn’t necessarily mean they are immediately trying to get back together, although they say that it is often a first potential step, and that the other partner should develop a plan to proceed slowly, in an effort not to scare the ex away once again.

I am not entirely sure what I’m going to do, but I do care for her greatly, and I think I will take steps to see if maybe we can try to re-attract each other and try to take steps forward. It could end up in the same spot, which is what everyone says will happen if one and likely, both partners are not willing to do the work. 
 

So, that’s where things are at.

 

 

 

 

[Whirling D]

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's surprising she continued to let you drive her car especially since it and driving became sort of a battleground. But as you mentioned, it was a power struggle on many levels sort of exemplified by driving.

Well, it’s almost hard for me to imagine why it was an issue in the first place. If it were me, I might joke with my partner about them going 15 miles an hour below the speed limit, but I wouldn’t be giving it much more energy than that. 

The last time we had that confrontation, I think I said to her “one strategy would be if you don’t like the way that your partner is doing something, you could just take over and do it yourself“. She wanted to do that the next time we drove somewhere, and I pretty much talked her out of it, telling her I wanted to be able to redeem myself and show that I could focus on driving and accomplish what she was trying to coerce me to do… Which was drive the speed limit. She was having a hard time even coming to terms with that. I think it annoyed her, because I don’t think she was understanding the intent of why I was interested in driving that day.

[Wiseman2]

11 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

, I think I said to her “one strategy would be if you don’t like the way that your partner is doing something, you could just take over and do it yourself“. 

That could have been a good solution. Let her drive or take your car. That takes the backseat driving out of the equation. 

[Whirling D]

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

That could have been a good solution. Let her drive or take your car. That takes the backseat driving out of the equation. 

Yeah, she was trying to insist on driving the last time we went up there, but I really wanted to drive… I know she doesn’t like to drive, and I really enjoy it, and me insisting on driving was my way of showing her that I was hearing what she was saying, and was trying to be more accommodating. I’m not sure if she was buying it, though.

[Morello]

33 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

The last time we had that confrontation, I think I said to her “one strategy would be if you don’t like the way that your partner is doing something, you could just take over and do it yourself“. She wanted to do that the next time we drove somewhere, and I pretty much talked her out of it, telling her I wanted to be able to redeem myself and show that I could focus on driving and accomplish what she was trying to coerce me to do… Which was drive the speed limit. She was having a hard time even coming to terms with that. 

I'm not sure you understand how problematic this kind of behaviour is. 

I think that rather than reframing the break-up (and the relationship) into a narrative that suits you, perhaps you could consider being a bit less stubborn and try to learn from this whole experience so you can be more prepared when the right person comes.

Having said that, you surely deserve to be cut some slack, as the break-up is recent. If I were you, I'd not entertain this kind of message from her. I'd not even respond, but if you can't do that, perhaps just say you are processing the break-up and that you'll contact her if/when you think it's a good idea, but otherwise, it's good riddance? The way this is going (watching videos about re-attracting her), this is not going to end nicely for you mate.