Well… I guess that is that.

[Wiseman2]

47 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I texted her about six hours later, which was recommended, and just simply said “so, is this your way of gloating that you are in Florida right now?”  She responded by saying “well, it’s raining here, but warm“ 

It doesn't seem like a "pity text", but you two shared some time together and she has no reason to be bitter or hostile. She seems at peace with her decision and perhaps hopes to remain friends. Keep in mind she has thoroughly thought though the break-up before inviting you over to do it in a civilized manner rather than rash threats in the heat of an argument. You two definitely operate in different circles.

[NighttimeNightmare]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

I should ignore it, because, as you say, I am hypersensitive.

I don’t like when people say this about others. You experience your feelings how you experience them, and they need to be worked through - whatever that means for you

 

I've found when people label someone as “hypersensitive” it’s almost always used in a dismissive and invalidating way.  Then, the person’s struggles are never actually addressed or solved because they’ve been wrote off as theatrical. 
 

I dunno, I thought this forum was to work through issues, big or small. 

[rainbowsandroses]

57 minutes ago, Morello said:

The way this is going (watching videos about re-attracting her), this is not going to end nicely for you mate.

Chiming in to say 100% agree with this^.  His entire post but this sentence stood out. 

Why not find one reputable qualified local therapist, develop a healthy patient-therapist relationship with him/her, who can truly help you deal with this in a healthy way? 

Also agree with Wise, she sounds fine.  She's at peace with her decision and has moved on.  As it goes with most dumpers, my sense is her decision to end things was, in her mind, a long time coming, not a rash impulsive decision.

Honestly, right now I believe it's best to focus on you and your healing.  Introspection and learning from it comes later in my experience.

Acceptance that it's truly over is the first step.

I don't sense you've actually done that.

 

[Morello]

7 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Honestly, right now I believe it's best to focus on you and your healing.  Introspection and learning from it comes later in my experience.

Acceptance that it's over is the first step.

I don't sense you've actually done that.

 

My experience has been exactly the same. Learning only starts after acceptance. Agree 100% with your post.

Whirl, please focus on your mental health and wellbeing for the moment. Attempting to get back with her would be going in the opposite direction. Focus on you, your close ones. Cut yourself some slack, and just try to focus and do things you like. It's time to accept you are dealing with a hurtful break up, and be nice to yourself until you get to the other side.

I know it's tempting to reanalyse every second of your relationship (been there, done that), but it's not helpful at all. This will keep you stuck.

[Batya33]

Just - I think it's fine if the sensitive person owns what they are hypersensitive about and then it's fine if their partner sometimes reminds them if there's a situation where the partner thinks he/she was being thoughtful and says "I'm sorry, I forgot you're extra sensitive about ____"  Or "but I stopped/didn't do ____ that triggers you -what's the problem?"

I ask my husband please please not to tunelessly whistle just while I'm eating and for awhile he claimed it was too broad an ask - so I redefined it to "only when I'm eating" (which is far less time than "all the time" or anytime we're in the kitchen together etc. 

So he does but sometimes if I'm particularly exhausted I'll ask - but apologetically -please I have to focus on ____ and it's really distracting (if I can't drown it out/put on headphones).  He has less "triggers" than me but he has one major one that I don't relate to BUT I do my utmost to respect that one and he knows it.  It's not about labeling/validating - it's about owning your quirks/sensitivities whatever and then talking in a normal way if at all possible -because if your partner can accommodate you they will - out of you know kindness/thoughtfulness.  He was up while I was having my cherished early morning/this is heaven -quiet me time with my coffee and breakfast yesterday because he had an early flight.  And on his end I stay out of his way with his last minute packing/lists/cutting it to the last minute stuff - I know how to do that stuff very well AND my way would likely distract him/be unhelpful/come across wrong.  So I'm quiet.

He said something about the current news and I said quietly and with a friendly tone "yes I see... I'm kind of in Coffee Mode right now" (a new phrase -but that's the thing -he got it and didn't get all huffy that his Wife didn't want to chat at that hour).  But I also try to move the needle a bit -when he was leaving I warmly wished him a good and smooth flight and all the rest.  It can work -he totally doesn't get my Coffee Mode/Me Time/Heavenly feeling thing at all. 

In fact -he's a non coffee drinker and happily eats on the run - but he doesn't have to. He just has to give a darn about me and be willing to put up with me.  (For which I am so grateful given me with all these quirks!).

[MrMan1983]

30 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

but he has one major one that I don't relate to BUT I do my utmost to respect that one

Is that the huge burps you keep doing after dinner? 😛

[boltnrun]

These "online therapists" you're pinning your hopes on have not discussed your specific situation with you. You can't take what they say as a prediction of what will happen in your situation. They did NOT say you two specifically are likely to reconcile. They're speaking in a very general sense.

I noticed you tend to soothe yourself by watching online videos. Again, these are very general and are not speaking to your specific situation. 

[Crawfords Wine]

8 hours ago, Whirling D said:

I think I said to her “one strategy would be if you don’t like the way that your partner is doing something, you could just take over and do it yourself“. She wanted to do that the next time we drove somewhere, and I pretty much talked her out of it,

 

7 hours ago, Whirling D said:

Yeah, she was trying to insist on driving the last time we went up there, but I really wanted to drive… I know she doesn’t like to drive, and I really enjoy it, and me insisting on driving was my way of showing her that I was hearing what she was saying, and was trying to be more accommodating. I’m not sure if she was buying it, though.

My dude, this is so messed up!

You 'present' her with a compromise, she accepts that solution. But when it's time to apply said solution,  you do a volte-face and insist you drive. In HER car. 'Because you really wanted to drive'.

This is you, being controlling. This is you, being manipulative. This is you, being selfish and self-centred.

8 hours ago, Whirling D said:

I worked very hard to be good to the doctor lady. Tolerant. Patient. Kind

If you need to 'work hard' to be good, kind, patient and tolerant, you are in the wrong relationship. That stuff should come so naturally and without effort.

 

8 hours ago, Whirling D said:

I am not one that believes that her and I are completely incompatible. I think we would have our work cut out for us,

But why would you, in the autumn of your lives want to be in a relationship where you have to devise strategies, analyse-to-death one another's behaviour, triggers, attachment styles and all the other pop psychology elements du jour that you appear so fond of? 

I imagine she would want the relationship to be of an easy, even-keeled, supportive and comfortable dynamic.
Not a constant battleground with endless post match analyses, shifting goalposts, overwhelming anxiety, criticism and unrelenting doubt.

Personally I think you were a bad match from the start and trying to get back together would be a mistake. 
But you do you, as you always do. 
I'm not altogether convinced that you want to be happy. 
You relish the drama, the push-pull and the emotional highs & lows too much.  
You don't necessarily want to be happy, but you do want to be right.

And yes, that is absolutely your prerogative.
 

[Whirling D]

24 minutes ago, Crawfords Wine said:

 

My dude, this is so messed up!

You 'present' her with a compromise, she accepts that solution. But when it's time to apply said solution,  you do a volte-face and insist you drive. In HER car. 'Because you really wanted to drive'.

This is you, being controlling. This is you, being manipulative. This is you, being selfish and self-centred.

If you need to 'work hard' to be good, kind, patient and tolerant, you are in the wrong relationship. That stuff should come so naturally and without effort.

 

But why would you, in the autumn of your lives want to be in a relationship where you have to devise strategies, analyse-to-death one another's behaviour, triggers, attachment styles and all the other pop psychology elements du jour that you appear so fond of? 

I imagine she would want the relationship to be of an easy, even-keeled, supportive and comfortable dynamic.
Not a constant battleground with endless post match analyses, shifting goalposts, overwhelming anxiety, criticism and unrelenting doubt.

Personally I think you were a bad match from the start and trying to get back together would be a mistake. 
But you do you, as you always do. 
I'm not altogether convinced that you want to be happy. 
You relish the drama, the push-pull and the emotional highs & lows too much.  
You don't necessarily want to be happy, but you do want to be right.

And yes, that is absolutely your prerogative.
 

You are full of crap.  You don’t know what you are talking about.

Controlling, manipulating… Where do you come up with this crap?  I tell my own therapist these stories, with the exact same narrative, and she tells me differently.  I will defer to her instincts over your armchair negativity, thanks.  But no thanks.

lastly, yes, you can TRY hard to be kind and thoughtful… You might try that before writing rubbish like this that isn’t based in being there, or knowing the participants.  Geesh.

 

[rainbowsandroses]

2 hours ago, Whirling D said:

I tell my own therapist these stories, with the exact same narrative, and she tells me differently.

I didn't realize you were seeing a private therapist.  This is good!!

Please don't take offense because we are all here trying to help you process and navigate this painful experience.   

But not sure what the benefit would be of talking to on-line therapists (plural?), who imo are there to agree with whatever narrative you present to them and take your money for doing so.  

It's quite impersonal and generic.  And talking to them as @Morellosaid, may be keeping you stuck.  Among other things.

Anyway, what my very wonderful therapist has told me is that behaviors like controlling and being manipulative can be subjective depending on who the recipient of such behavior is.

What's viewed as controlling and manipulative to one person may NOT be viewed as such to another. 

And that it's important to be cognizant and aware of how our behavior is seen by others (not only our partners), versus how we ourselves view our own behavior.

FWIW, I also view the driving incident where you insisted on driving, apparently for her benefit even though she herself wanted to drive and was also insisting to drive, as controlling.  You both could have done better there imo.

Anyway the point my therapist was making was try to see yourself through the eyes of your partner.

And if and when they tell you your behavior is controlling or manipulative (for example), to them, it is.

It's important to remember that and try to understand their perspective versus digging in your heels insisting I'm not controlling and you're wrong if you think so. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, MrMan1983 said:

Is that the huge burps you keep doing after dinner? 😛

LOL.  Nope.  Also -OP I should have added I am sorry you're struggling!

[Whirling D]

10 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I didn't realize you were seeing a private therapist.  This is good!!

Please don't take offense because we are all here trying to help you process and navigate this painful experience.   

But not sure what the benefit would be of talking to on-line therapists (plural?), who imo are there to agree with whatever narrative you present to them and take your money for doing so.  

It's quite impersonal and generic.  And talking to them as @Morellosaid, may be keeping you stuck.  Among other things.

Anyway, what my very wonderful therapist has told me is that behaviors like controlling and being manipulative can be subjective depending on who the recipient of such behavior is.

What's viewed as controlling and manipulative to one person may NOT be viewed as such to another. 

And that it's important to be cognizant and aware of how our behavior is seen by others (not only our partners), versus how we ourselves view our own behavior.

FWIW, I also view the driving incident where you insisted on driving, apparently for her benefit even though she herself wanted to drive and was also insisting to drive, as controlling.  You both could have done better there imo.

Anyway the point my therapist was making was that try to see yourself through the eyes of your partner.

And if and when they tell you your behavior is controlling or manipulative (for example), to them, it is.

It's important to remember that and try to understand their perspective.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you rainbow.  Always nice to hear from you… 😊

I think the Dr. Lady has a much greater need to control her environment than I do… Also has a streak of entitlement, which I saw with how she would get upset with service people, should things not go exactly as she thought they should.

So, often, I think I was merely in the way of that negative energy.  Plus, the more I showed independence in the way I make decisions… I think it made her feel a bit of insecurity.  After all… she’s the doctor Lady.  Think, deck job…, driving 39 mph.  That was all power struggle stuff.  I got sucked into it, merely because I continuously wanted to explain why I choose what I did… and that’s a no no with lady’s like her.  I should have learned that from the borderline lady, but the doctor lady always seemed to appreciate that kind of discussion,  although i suspect she eventually believed I wasn’t listening to her… same as many others.

I don’t have that problem with my other friends.  We love comparing details about things, and going back and forth about the best way of doing things.  We don’t care who’s right or wrong… we just want to figure out what’s best in each situation.

Not sure the doctor lady liked being outdone like that…never though… if at worst, my intent was to show her how capable I was at being helpful and skillful… awful, isn’t it?

As for the car driving thing… I don’t believe I was intending to be controlling or manipulative in the traditional sense… I think it was an attempt to shown her I was hearing what she was saying, and was perfectly willing and capable of doing what would her happy.  If anything, that’s submissive, not controlling.

The speed reduction thing came out of a discussion… I may have asked her not to bark at me when I lost focus on 70 mph speed.  She then wanted to know what suggestions I might have for her to feel better about that.  I told her how my brain manages those kinds of situations.  I thought the discussion was fairly proactive and engaged.  I’m just not sure she was following the pedagogy… She felt if she didn’t “tell” me I was going too slow, she would continue to get annoyed.  She couldn’t fathom how there could be value in allowing somebody to make their own mistakes, and learn to manage them.  Ughh…

 

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I think the Dr. Lady has a much greater need to control her environment than I do… Also has a streak of entitlement, which I saw with how she would get upset with service people, should things not go exactly as she thought they should.

That's interesting -she is paying a service person in some way so isn't she entitled to get what she paid for and if not to respond -not in an arrogant or mean way -but to get what she is entitled to? Service people for sure work very hard and depending what they're doing for low  pay so acting in an entitled way -insisting that you deserve more than what you paid for or not showing appreciation -not saying a sincere please and thank you -I get - but when I had a cleaning service and I came home to find hair on my bathroom floor -I called and asked them to come back or make it right -I was entitled to a bathroom floor that didn't have hair or dirt on it.  For example.  That didn't make me "entitled" IMO. If they'd declined I would have expressed that I was disappointed -not upset as in angry or acting impolite -but yes, disappointed.

[Whirling D]

18 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

That's interesting -she is paying a service person in some way so isn't she entitled to get what she paid for and if not to respond -not in an arrogant or mean way -but to get what she is entitled to? Service people for sure work very hard and depending what they're doing for low  pay so acting in an entitled way -insisting that you deserve more than what you paid for or not showing appreciation -not saying a sincere please and thank you -I get - but when I had a cleaning service and I came home to find hair on my bathroom floor -I called and asked them to come back or make it right -I was entitled to a bathroom floor that didn't have hair or dirt on it.  For example.  That didn't make me "entitled" IMO. If they'd declined I would have expressed that I was disappointed -not upset as in angry or acting impolite -but yes, disappointed.

In her case, she’s prepared to get nasty pretty quickly… She looses control and starts getting verbally assaultive.  I had to intervene and tell her I would handle a delivery guy once, since it was clear she was going to go to battle.  

Doesn’t seem necessary to me.

[boltnrun]

Do you understand that your perspective and hers can be completely different?

I grew up believing my brother was my mother's obvious favorite. He grew up thinking I was the favored child. We lived in the same home with the same mother and were present for a majority of the same events and experiences and yet we perceived them completely opposite. 

Apparently this lady felt differently than you do regarding your shared experiences and continuing the relationship. You can debate our input all day long but at the end of the day? She chose to end the relationship despite obviously caring for you as a person a great deal. 

[waffle]

19 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

. . . she’s prepared to get nasty pretty quickly… She looses control and starts getting verbally assaultive.  

She sounds awful.  

[catfeeder]

Hi Whirl, one reason to consider why DL may have been extreme in voicing against your speed drops so far below the limit may not have been due to annoyance or a control thing, but rather fear for her own safety and yours.

Dropping speed on a highway is like placing an object onto the road. It obstructs the flow of traffic, which can cause an accident. It’s actually a moving violation because it’s so dangerous.

[boltnrun]

I have a very expensive car repair I'm going to have to pay for as a direct result of someone on the freeway going about 50 mph (speed limit is 65) and not paying attention to her driving. 

(I feel you will mark this as me being "insensitive".)

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

In her case, she’s prepared to get nasty pretty quickly… She looses control and starts getting verbally assaultive.  I had to intervene and tell her I would handle a delivery guy once, since it was clear she was going to go to battle.  

Doesn’t seem necessary to me.

Oh so that’s just rude!  Not entitled. I mean to me entitled is high maintenance or asking for extras or to cut a line etc which is rude but if she is impolite about getting what she paid for that’s rude for sure ! Service people work too hard to endure that crap ! ( my first job other than babysitting was at Dunkin …)

[Whirling D]

26 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I have a very expensive car repair I'm going to have to pay for as a direct result of someone on the freeway going about 50 mph (speed limit is 65) and not paying attention to her driving. 

(I feel you will mark this as me being "insensitive".)

I should add that me going 55 mph was mostly a result of cars in front of me going slower (but probably not always), and I just wasn’t noticing the slow down.  

I don’t believe I was causing danger, but who knows for sure.  I do feel pretty sure it wasn’t because I was a danger that she was barking at me.  It wouldn’t surprise me if she has a bit of OCD going on, and whenever she notices something is out of the norm, it makes her anxious. She once say that she wanted to get to her destination faster and was getting anxious. to me, 15 mph (sometimes not that much) on a relatively short trip isn’t going to make that much of a difference.  
 

I think it was largely because of her anxiety.

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

2 hours ago, Whirling D said:

Not sure the doctor lady liked being outdone like that…never though… if at worst, my intent was to show her how capable I was at being helpful and skillful… awful, isn’t it?

Again, it's not what you (or your friends) think of your behavior, or even what your intent was, it's what SHE thinks (or anyone you're in a romantic relationship with).  

Try and understand HER perspective (with everything not just the driving incident) even though you may not agree with it.  Assuming going forward with the next woman, you want your relationship to work.

She should be doing the same. 

Also, instead of finding fault with her which you're doing quite a lot of, look within yourself and take responsibility for how you contributed to what appears to be a toxic dynamic between the two of you. 

All I'm hearing is she's controlling, she's manipulative, she's entitled, she's rude, she's this and she's that interspersed with occasional she's one of kindest most gentle women I've ever known. 

Forget about her and look within.  Own YOUR role.  It's NOT one person's fault, it was the two of you together. 

I'm really surprised your private therapist hasn't encouraged you to do that.  

That's their job for goodness sake.  NOT to analyze your partner (her) and diagnose them or even criticize them.

That's just wrong and not helpful to you at all, imo and experience.

Find a new therapist if that's what their doing. 

 

[Seraphim]

10 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I should add that me going 55 mph was mostly a result of cars in front of me going slower (but probably not always), and I just wasn’t noticing the slow down.  

I don’t believe I was causing danger, but who knows for sure.  I do feel pretty sure it wasn’t because I was a danger that she was barking at me.  It wouldn’t surprise me if she has a bit of OCD going on, and whenever she notices something is out of the norm, it makes her anxious. She once say that she wanted to get to her destination faster and was getting anxious. to me, 15 mph (sometimes not that much) on a relatively short trip isn’t going to make that much of a difference.  
 

I think it was largely because of her anxiety.

 

 

Going 15 below the posted limit actually is an issue. It drives most people over the deepend. They are forced to pull out and pass. I know it drives me batshyte crazy. 

[Whirling D]

30 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I have a very expensive car repair I'm going to have to pay for as a direct result of someone on the freeway going about 50 mph (speed limit is 65) and not paying attention to her driving. 

(I feel you will mark this as me being "insensitive".)

Not at all insensitive.

[Whirling D]

12 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Again, it's not what you (or your friends) think of your behavior, or even what your intent was, it's what SHE thinks (or anyone you're in a romantic relationship with).  

Try and understand HER perspective (with everything not just the driving incident) even though you may not agree with it.  Assuming going forward with the next woman, you want your relationship to work.

She should be doing the same. 

Also, instead of finding fault with her which you're doing quite a lot of, look within yourself and take responsibility for how you contributed to what appears to be a toxic dynamic between the two of you. 

All I'm hearing is she's controlling, she's manipulative, she's entitled, she's rude, she's this and she's that interspersed with occasional she's one of kindest most gentle women I've ever known. 

Forget about her and look within.  Own YOUR role.  It's NOT one person's fault, it was the two of you together. 

I'm really surprised your private therapist hasn't encouraged you to do that.  

That's their job for goodness sake.  NOT to analyze your partner (her) and diagnose them or even criticize them.

That's just wrong and not helpful to you at all, imo and experience.

 

I already know what my part was… And my therapist constantly says that I lead with an open heart, a gentle soul, and a thoughtful disposition. She doesn’t pull any punches, so, if she really thought I was out of control, at least, in terms of the doctor lady, she would certainly tell me.

Don’t forget, what I am talking about on here is mostly the negatives. To gush over her positives doesn’t really seem to meet the purpose of been on here.

Also, we are not that incompatible. We have tons that are aligned, and we enjoy hanging out with each other… But there are the occasional times, like the ones I’ve described, where I drive her crazy, and she gets kind of annoying. And then the times that she spends greater amount of time being unhappy and crabby, which gets on my nerves. Out of the three days that we typically spent together, it was usually the third day, almost always. That seemed to be a pattern, and I could follow its origin, I’m sure. 

I don’t feel I did tons wrong. I think I was probably more skillful with how I interacted with her than I have been with any of my previous relationships. Open. More honest. Less likely to get bent out of shape about things. More likely to not confront when I’m feeling triggered. There is a lot to be thankful for regarding this relationship.

And clearly, I didn’t see what was coming, which means I didn’t fully understand what was happening with her. I still don’t. But I do know that she cares for me deeply, and she believes that I am a wonderful person, and I still believe that it is likely as much her avoidant fear that got the best of her this time around, for a myriad of reasons, and likely had little to do with me as a person.

[Whirling D]

6 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Going 15 below the posted limit actually is an issue. It drives most people over the deepend. They are forced to pull out and pass. I know it drives me batshyte crazy. 

Traffic was fairly heavy most of the time during this drive, and cars were speeding up and slowing down because of volume. There were plenty of cars doing the same speed I was, if I remember correctly.