What’s next?

[Whirling D]

So… It’s been a week or two since I’ve been off of here. Lots to report, I guess.   There is good, and not so good with the doctor lady.
 

I’m hesitant to come on here again, since first of all, I don’t think the site is moderated all that well, and second, I was getting tired of the nasty, subtle comments that were meant more to make the poster feel powerful rather than to be helpful.  It’s not appropriate. I don’t come on here to read backhanded nasty comments that are derogatory and mean. If this is you, don’t post on my threads. If anything even comes close to being mean or nasty, I will report you and block you. I come on here for thoughtful perspective and encouragement. Not to defend mean condescension.  I won’t be on here as much over the next few days, but I will be reading, and may be replying with short thoughts. 

So, with that out-of-the-way… I don’t even know what I said last. I may have said we had a fantastic weekend up at her Beachhouse. This weekend it was her first time spending the weekend at my house. It was certainly triggering.

I worked like a dog to get the place in good shape, and for the most part, it was as good as it could possibly be when she got here. I will preface this by saying that, even though I say that my house is often “dirty“ it’s not a pigpen. I just can’t get to every nook and cranny, and I can’t dust every surface on a regular basis. Some things haven’t been touched for a long time. I’m OK with that, because I have to prioritize. That’s life, I guess. 

The night before I tried to give her an “out” and tell her that I’d be more than happy to come up to her house since I do enjoy going up there. She very happily told me that she was looking forward and wanted to come down to my house. OK, good, but I was a bit apprehensive about it, and likely for a good reason.

I guess the main point of this posting is to figure out whether what I am encountering and what I’m feeling is just normal wear and tear for a new relationship, or whether or not these kinds of things are just going to spell chaos moving forward.

for example. She is hugely germ phobic. I suppose that could be considered expected, consider, she’s a doctor… But it seems way overboard to me. I don’t spend a lot of time worried about germs and bacteria, but she looks for it in every corner. She doesn’t get angry about it, or seem to get an a huff about anything, but she’ll certainly point things out…

More specifically, when I was up at her house, I offered to help with the dishwasher, and she asked me to just shake off the tops of all of the items that might have water on them and let them dry in the dishwasher further, because the bacteria can grow, and mold. So, I went one step further, and said, I would empty the dishwasher out, and I began to do that, and I told her that in my house, I’ll take the stuff in the dishwasher that’s even a little wet and just put it up in the cabinets… I know that it will dry there, and I’ve never noticed any detriment in doing so, even considering my house is very humid most of the summer.  She replied, in a somewhat disgusted tone, “well, that’s how you can get bacteria and mold, growing“. I don’t really think about that, and I don’t really care. But I respected what she was asking, and I would comply, but I personally think it’s a bit overboard.

There are many examples of this kind of thing when she got to my house.  Most of the time, it was just casual conversation and observation that would bring these things up… And, of course, things appeared that I tried hard to take care of, like a spoon that was put back in the drawer that still had remnants encrusted on it since the dishwasher didn’t get it all off. Usually I try to keep an eye on that, but one spoon slipped by, and of course it’s the one she found.  If it was me that found this, but it wasn’t, I would just take the thing over to the sink and rinse the thing off with a sponge and then use it. But she’s not me. She had to point it out in a somewhat annoyed manner.  There were several of these kinds of encounters.

But there were a couple of bigger ones where, on the second day here, I said to her in a somewhat confident manner, “so, what do you think now after being here for a little while… Do you have a different perspective on being in this house?”  Her reply was not at all what I was hoping for. She pretty much said she thought it was worse than she thought it might be, and that she could never live in an old house like this.  She seemed disappointed and somewhat disillusioned. I’m not sure those are the exact words she used, but it triggered me to no end. It made me wonder why I was even trying to introduce this lady to my world and how our lifestyles are just so diametrically different. Not to mention, I don’t think I could ever in my life say something like that to someone who I knew loved their house. It’s a little angering to even think of that conversation, truthfully, but I may be extracting a lot more emotion out of what she was saying then she was trying to convey. She may have just been saying that old houses are just not her thing. 

The conversation lasted for a while, and I tried to figure out what it was that was so triggering about what she said, given that, in a similar occasion she was in my kitchen, and I asked her what she would do differently in a house, like this, and she pointed out all the things that personalize the space… All the stuff that my daughter hangs on the walls… The Christmas cards and birthday cards that I have hanging on a rope above the doorway, which I’ve been collecting for years… She doesn’t like that stuff. I think it adds character and personality, but not her. 

I tried to evaluate what it was bringing up in me that her and I had these differences, and I thought it was because if she critiques my living environment like she does, and pretty much blatantly says she could never live in a house like this, I told her that it’s like criticizing a little part of me, because so much of me is wrapped up in what this house represents, warts, and all.

Thankfully, she said it was still a work in progress, and she is trying to ease into being over here, and she never once said she was uncomfortable, which was great. We pretty much had a good time while we were here. We also talked about the likelihood that would have to be compromise, moving forward, because I’m not going to just not want to hang stuff up on the wall that’s meaningful to me because she doesn’t like it. It just can’t work that way. She seemed OK with that I think. 

It also brought me back to a conversation we had a couple of days earlier, and I don’t even remember how it started, when we started talking about religion. I’m not traditionally religious. On our second date, I brought up that i noticed that she wears a necklace with a cross on it, and we talked about it, and she clearly said “well, it’s really not that big of a deal“. well, the other night she started asking me about it, and I started inquiring as to whether or not she was truly OK being with someone that couldn’t share her religious beliefs. Now, she was saying she wasn’t really sure. That’s still a work in progress, as well. She still thinking about that. It seemed like a bit of a red flag was surfacing for her.

We talked about it for a lengthy period of time, and her issue wasn’t necessarily that I don’t believe in “God“, but seemed more interested that I believe in some sort of higher power. She became quite emotional when she was thinking that it would be hard for her to be with someone that didn’t believe that we would someday be reunited with our loved ones on a higher plane.

It was hard for me to reconcile that conversation, and the one related to my house, because to me, it said this… Am I going to be feeling that I am not enough for this lady moving forward? I woke up this morning with this strong feeling that I need to end this. I woke up feeling not enough. I have spent most of my life fighting off this feeling of not being adequate enough for people in my environment. My dad, my older, brother, previous partners, people in my workplace, it always seems like I wasn’t enough for everybody else around. I needed to be or do something else. I don’t want to feel like that anymore.

Ultimately, my biggest struggle is wondering whether this is all in my head, which it may very well be… Given my abandonment tendencies, and perhaps even a little bit of avoidant attachment stuff…  

So, I know all the usual stuff… Every situation has differences and compromises… And she even pretty much ended both of those conversations by saying that none of those things were likely major issues for her, even though they kind of seemed like it when we were talking about them, although that may have just been my triggered brain making a lot more out of the conversations than we’re really there. I don’t know.

I did say to her after the religion conversation that I thought that I wanted her to find a situation that had all of the elements that she needed in place, and that perhaps her and I were not the right fit. I don’t know where that was coming from inside of me, but it felt like I meant it at the time… I don’t want her to settle for something that doesn’t have all the important elements that she needs to be happy. I wouldn’t want that for her.

She said back to me, in somewhat of a sad tone, that she didn’t want me to leave, and that we would be able to work these things out, and time would make things more clear. Well, as I wake up this morning, I start thinking that I don’t have a lot of time. Do I really want to be putting time into a situation that seems likely to have systemic issues this early on? Can two people that have lived very different lives come together and resolve these differences and successfully move forward and not resent each other for having to bend too far in another direction? 

I think I could probably accomplish that, but I’m not sure. It feels like I’m kind of on the downside, looking up fairly early on, and I’m not sure that’s fair to myself, really. Maybe I should look at this for what it is, and two people that just are in very different places in their lives, and have very different interests. If it’s that simple, I know what the answer is.

But the bottom line, despite these hitches, this lady is awesome. I enjoy her tremendously and feel a massive connection with her. But it draws out a lot of my triggers and skeletons probably more than anyone else, because there are so many positive things between us.

I’m not even really sure what I’m looking for with this post, other than to purge a bit, and hopefully, my thoughtful friends on here will tell me whether these are things that they have struggled with in their relationships, and whether or not the parties involved were able to let some of these things go in their minds and get on with just enjoying each other’s company and valuing what is there, rather what is not. I do believe I think she could do that, although it would not be easy. She’s likely more stuck in her ways than I am. That’s a argueable, though. 
 

so, I ended up talking with her on the phone this morning, as I usually do, when she’s driving on the way to work, and she seemed so positive and talked about things we can do in the future, that kind of thing, and it started to ease my anxiety and make me think… “Oh, maybe she’s not going to have 1 foot out the door after all…“  Which made me think that it’s just my abandonment anxiety kicking in… But then, after thinking about all these things I just mentioned, I go back to thinking that may be these are problems that could be  detrimental moving forward. 

What do you think? 

Thanks for reading, and again, I appreciate your responses, as long as they are kind.

 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

I think she made a lot of unnecessarily rude comments to you and that to me should greatly detract from her awesomeness. (Separately - I grew up without a dishwasher.  I’ve had one since 1994 when I moved out of my parents home - and I learned you really should rinse all off thoroughly with soap if needed and therefore the dishwasher “cleans” but don’t relay on it to remove much food - maybe there are some brands that work this way ?? It’s just a thought. If I find remnants on a clean dish etc it goes back in the sink with rare exception for the next dishwasher cycle) 

but on the main point I see her setting this up to end things and tell herself she told you so - whether nicely or rudely or bluntly.  My teenage son actually would not make those sorts of comments about how someone lived - he knows better.

In fact he just said to me today emphatically that I should go into the office for a staff appreciation event (I am not staff level ) even though it’s really inconvenient and it’s on my own free time.  he has a basic sense of how you treat people and he knows you show up to show support and appreciation out of the goodness of your heart and you don’t complain about the inconvenience.  So if your date can’t be bothered to show appreciation of your home and efforts and your daughter’s artwork I shudder to think about comments she makes to strangers. Or maybe she treats strangers better because there’s no risk of actually being close. 
She certainly has good qualities. Tact and commons sense is not in that category for her -including her thoughtless comments about expensive travel she wants to do with you. 

[Whirling D]

20 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think she made a lot of unnecessarily rude comments to you and that to me should greatly detract from her awesomeness. (Separately - I grew up without a dishwasher.  I’ve had one since 1994 when I moved out of my parents home - and I learned you really should rinse all off thoroughly with soap if needed and therefore the dishwasher “cleans” but don’t relay on it to remove much food - maybe there are some brands that work this way ?? It’s just a thought. If I find remnants on a clean dish etc it goes back in the sink with rare exception for the next dishwasher cycle) 

but on the main point I see her setting this up to end things and tell herself she told you so - whether nicely or rudely or bluntly.  My teenage son actually would not make those sorts of comments about how someone lived - he knows better.

In fact he just said to me today emphatically that I should go into the office for a staff appreciation event (I am not staff level ) even though it’s really inconvenient and it’s on my own free time.  he has a basic sense of how you treat people and he knows you show up to show support and appreciation out of the goodness of your heart and you don’t complain about the inconvenience.  So if your date can’t be bothered to show appreciation of your home and efforts and your daughter’s artwork I shudder to think about comments she makes to strangers. Or maybe she treats strangers better because there’s no risk of actually being close. 
She certainly has good qualities. Tact and commons sense is not in that category for her -including her thoughtless comments about expensive travel she wants to do with you. 

Thanks, Bat… I was thinking many of the same things… I don’t think I would dare make a comment about someone’s house like that, but I’m trying to look at the fair side of it. I asked her what she thought about being here, and I guess I have to be OK with the answer to a question that I actually asked?  I don’t know.
 

She strikes me as being fairly thoughtful, overall, except for when she gets these things in her head… Germs… Money… Maybe religion… Can differences in these areas coexist?

she was in a bad mood the other day, when she woke up, and was very sensitive about it. We were watching a video on YouTube, about attachment styles, and the presenter was saying that conveying negative energy in a relationship is destructive, because even though one may not be physically or verbally assaulting their partner, the negative energy can build up and be toxic. 

I completely relate to that, since I have spent a lot of my time with bad energy… Not as much these days, but when I was working full-time and raising my kid, I’d be constantly in a nasty mood. I think I was overwhelmed. I think she is somewhat overwhelmed, so I’m kind of being tolerant of that.

She never animed any of that negative energy at me, and I would probably point it out quickly if she did. But, she showed a lot of embarrassment that she wasn’t feeling great and didn’t want for me to be affected by her negative energy. I’m trying to understand that all people will have bad moods, and feel anxious from time to time, certainly myself included.  She doesn’t seem like she is in a bad mood all the time. Just some of the time, probably just like me and most of the rest of the planet.

I don’t think her occasional bad moods, or being overstressed is a dealbreaker, unless it became more prevalent or aimed at me. So far, so good. 
 

as far as the dishwasher goes, I just got a fairly good one a little over a year ago, and the owners manual actually says that there’s no need to prerinse, because that’s what the machine is made to do.

As usual, I would much rather take the chance, with the likelihood that there may be a stray encrusted utensil here or there, rather than rinse everything that goes in there. She likes to rinse. Other people I know like to rinse. I think it’s a waste of time, but certainly not a dealbreaker, I doubt. 
 

But do most couples go through these kinds of learning curves, and have to tolerate these kind of difference, or do these stories bring bigger likelihood of issues?  

My anxiety over the last 24 hours is making me think that I’ll just never live up to her expectations… And that’s not a life I’m sure I’m interested in living..

[Batya33]

Asking as you did doesn't justify outright rudeness.  My top of the line nice dishwasher also doesn't require prerinsing.  I am more of a germ intense person -so I always prerinse. 

I think you're overthinking about someone who doesn't play nicely in the sandbox when push comes to shove -imagine what she might blurt out in front of your daughter "well um my daughter asked what she thought of her outfit....."

It's fine to be in a bad mood.  Depends how often and how it affects others.  I don't agree with the generalization that all negative energy affects a relationship in the same way - if I'm in a bad mood -like if my teenager pushes my buttons -I often leave the room quietly and take space.  While I'm still in a bad mood quiet in another room am I spreading negative energy to my family? Technically I guess yes -but I don't' see that level -that situation the same as others. 

I think you can do away with the psychology of this cause it's basic common sense stuff.

In general I think major religious differences can be dealbreakers especially if kids are involved.  

[Wiseman2]

Her staying over and seeing you in situ is a good thing and a natural step in the getting to know you process.

As far as religion, who cares? Live and let live. She doesn't have to be an atheist or conform to your bohemian ethos.

As far as the house visit, however, you already know your lifestyles, values and socioeconomic  differences are quite vast and neither of you could ever be yourselves if you ever had to live together. 

But. You're only dating a couple weeks so there's not much to worry about at this point.

[Seraphim]

My in-laws were happily married 63 years before my father-in-law died. My mother-in-law is a devout Catholic and my father-in-law wasn’t religious. She raised their kids as Catholics. They didn’t discuss religion. They didn’t bug each other about it and he didn’t interfere in the religious raising of their children. While she was at Mass with the kids he stayed home and made lunch. He went to his kid’s sacraments and my son’s and that was it . 
 

I am not seeing this as a massive issue if you guys don’t bother each other about it. You won’t be raising kids together so the impact on the relationship is minuscule at best if you both stay in your lane . 

[SooSad33]

Well, I know you're right into this woman ( I forget how long you've been involved).  But, sometimes, some things do make it all too much & too awkward to truly feel 'comfortable'.

And this fact of her being like a germaphobe is an issue.

I guess you're just trying to figure out IF this is worth moving ahead or is it too challenging to where, eventually it will come to an end because you two are just too different..  right?

Do you at all see her as somewhat of a 'higher power'?  Do you feel small & compare yourself to her ?

I just see some things as red flags, yes.

Where you live it your way and she's opposite re: cleanliness.  Yes, I see this an issue.  You maybe never truly feel okay.  One cannot live comfortably knowing someone is sitting there thinking of the worst things 😕 .

This woman, on her first visit had a lot of judgement, of course.  But you knew to expect it.  Because you know how she is.

Myself in this situation, I wouldn't waste my time, honestly.  I will not change myself or my ways for anyone.  You're either okay and mesh well with me or you don't.  If we're not 'compatible', then I won't waste my time.  yup, been there and have learned over my years to catch on quite fast 😉 .

This is an experience for you.. and you're learning.  Usually if a couple ends things, I think it'll happen within the first year.  In that time they'll come to learn their differences and how the other person really is.

You're a man.  And men often are attracted to a woman by looks first, then maybe their strengths.  etc. But, a man can usually pick up soon enough her negatives and decide IF he can handle it or not.

So, now that she's been there and you were kind of 'put off' by her reactions & comments, it got to sit with you for a bit and I get it, you were set off, of course.

I will add, this reminds me of a character on Frasier ( Niles), who was a germaphobe through much of the show.  Eventually Niles did have a short term relationship with another of his kind, but it ended because although they had that in common, that was the only thing they had, he did not love her. And I think in time, his phobia kind of eased off, as we saw it less often, but fact remains in your own 'real world', this is how your woman rolls 😉 .

 

Hmm yeah, now what?  Now you try and weight the odds.  Positives and negatives.  Can you truly see this working out in the long run?  Or is there just too many challenges for YOU to feel comfortable and truly happy with her around. 

 

[smackie9]

Eventually everyone will be able to compromise. It takes time. 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Whirling D said:

  She likes to rinse. 

Try not to get into who's right who's wrong. If she wants to keep her place like an operating room, that's her prerogative. 

If you want to keep your place however you keep it that's fine too. You have to live there. There's no point bickering about rinsing like you're already a crochety old couple.

It's hard to imagine how romantic it was talking about doing dishes and dishwashers. Well as long as you had fun, even if it seems like a scene from "The Odd Couple".

[Whirling D]

9 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

Eventually everyone will be able to compromise. It takes time. 

Thanks, Smackie… Her and I are so alike in so many ways.  When I went up to her beach house 10 days ago, I was kind of a mess for the first while I was there… Didn’t think it was for me. Too rich and snobby… But after a while, I started to chill and concentrate on just being with her, and she was lovely… made me feel very at home, and at ease about it. I told her I was very anxious and not feeling like I fit in there and was deserving of that kind of lifestyle. She responded by saying, “why wouldn’t you be deserving of this, you worked a lot of years to be good at some thing that is important in the world, working with kids“. It was a very thoughtful thing for her to say. 

Part of me wonders if despite all of the things that may be prohibitive for her, she is staying with me because of chemistry and attraction. Unlike almost every other woman on the planet… she finds me very attractive, and that seems to be taking her and I a long way.  I can feel her attraction to me, and I hear her words, and it’s quite strong. But that’s only part of it. She told me quite a few times early on that I was one of the few people that would accept her quirks and all, and kind of “gets” who she is.  I do in most ways, except for lifestyle. We are very different In that regards in many ways. Not so much in others.  
 

I think my biggest fear is that I’m going to be constantly feeling like I am lesser than. That won’t work well for me. It might have to be up to me to get over that and get over myself.

For the most part, I don’t have this feeling that she is my superior… I think, intellectually speaking, and personally speaking, we are both pretty close… It’s really the socioeconomic thing that has made the biggest differences… And what she brings to the table because of that. maybe the religion, as well.  
 

probably my biggest complaint with our situation, and perhaps, with her, is that she has a little bit of an entitlement streak. It’s not overwhelming, and it doesn’t come out all the time… But every once, in a blue moon, I hear something come out of her mouth that is a bit snobby… I could probably live with that. My girlfriend from a couple of years ago was way worse.  I guess I can be inverse snobby, as well from time to time… 🙂

[Whirling D]

2 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Try not to get into who's right who's wrong. If she wants to keep her place like an operating room, that's her prerogative. 

If you want to keep your place however you keep it that's fine too. You have to live there. There's no point bickering about rinsing like you're already a crochety old couple.

It's hard to imagine how romantic it was talking about doing dishes and dishwashers. Well as long as you had fun, even if it seems like a scene from "The Odd Couple".

I think we are both still very much getting a feel for where things lay.  When there is something that comes up that makes it clear that we are very different about a particular topic, it strikes us both down a notch, because I think we have been so marveled with how alike we are in so many different ways, that now that we are seeing how we are different, we are both kind of a bit disappointed by the differences.
 

 I think it takes both of us a bit to reevaluate and begin to see that those differences aren’t really that big of a deal. But I can’t really speak for her. At least she always seems to come around and tell me she doesn’t think they are a big deal, because I always seem to roll back around to those topics a little while later, just to check in to see if she’s been thinking about some of those things. She always says she appreciates that we are talking about things and trying to come up with solutions, and that none of her other boyfriends would even bother doing that. That’s a significant positive.  

[Whirling D]

I just thought of something else that got on my nerves last week.

At times, she does act somewhat selfishly… In small ways, and they certainly are not deal breakers, because I’m sure I could identify a few things that I do in that way, as well.

But, last weekend, I played a gig midday, and a few days earlier, I was suggesting to her that after my gig, I could come up and we could drive together up to her Beachhouse, because we had a day and a half and I knew she would love the opportunity to go up.

So, she thought that was a fine idea, and that was a plan for about 48 hours… Until I was done with my gig, and I called her on the phone… She said to me “I’m not going to go to my beach house now, so let’s figure out what we can do around my house”.

I was kind of distracted by that… Because it wasn’t, “I’m not really feeling like I want to go to the beach house now. It’s just too much stress to go up there for one day. How would you feel if we skip at this time?“ However, what she said, seemed singularly one-sided, as if she didn’t really need to consult me and ask me what I thought about the situation. It didn’t feel like partnership. 

It took me about an hour and a half to settle with that, and not try to make something out of it. I knew going up there for her could be stressful, because she puts so much energy into packing, and cleaning the place up when we leave, etc., and I suspected that’s why she was changing her mind. I kind of wish that she would have included me in on the decision, and I do have a little bit of this feeling that she’s going to try to operate as the queen bee from time to time. That won’t work for me either. 

 

[MissCanuck]

3 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Because it wasn’t, “I’m not really feeling like I want to go to the beach house now. It’s just too much stress to go up there for one day. How would you feel if we skip at this time?“ However, what she said, seemed singularly one-sided, as if she didn’t really need to consult me and ask me what I thought about the situation. It didn’t feel like partnership. 

You're problem-hunting again. 

[Wiseman2]

8 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

… She said to me “I’m not going to go to my beach house now, so let’s figure out what we can do around my house”

Try not to be upset about this. Her alternative suggestion was fine and understandable considering it is a hassle for one day. When you're her guest, you may have to be a bit flexible about reasonably doable plans and alternatives. After all she didn't cancel, she just invited you to her place instead of the beach house.

[Whirling D]

51 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

You're problem-hunting again. 

Likely true. The good news is that I thought about it, and weighed the choices, and tried to look at it from her perspective. I let it go. Kind of. It probably deserved a short conversation with her, but who knows what perspective that would’ve brought up.

[Cherylyn]

I think for now both of you will be ok as a couple but eventually her cleanliness preferences will irk her as time goes by and same with lack of religious compatibility.  Sure,  differences are wonderful especially if it's relatively minor but squabbling,  bickering,  arguing or observations about how one lives and what one believes or doesn't believe are big issues IMHO.  It's better to be evenly yoked or have the 'birds of a feather flock together' mentality because two people can relate better and life is easier and smoother.  My husband and I wouldn't have lasted as long as we have if we didn't agree upon how our house is,  how our household is run like a tight ship and our faith has sustained us gloriously through the years.   🙏 💗

[Whirling D]

43 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Try not to be upset about this. Her alternative suggestion was fine and understandable considering it is a hassle for one day. When you're her guest, you may have to be a bit flexible about reasonably doable plans and alternatives. After all she didn't cancel, she just invited you to her place instead of the beach house.

All true, wise… And if I recall correctly, we had a really good night. But that’s a week ago, and my elderly brain can hardly remember…

We went into the small, coastal town the next morning, and had a blast, so that was nice.

[rainbowsandroses]

4 hours ago, Whirling D said:

My anxiety over the last 24 hours is making me think that I’ll just never live up to her expectations… And that’s not a life I’m sure I’m interested in living..

Jmo but this^ is less about her "expectations" whatever you're assuming her expectations to be. 

And more about your avoidant and fear of commitment issues (which you have admitted to) rearing their ugly heads, now that the relationship has moved away from fantasy and idealization and into reality. 

It's fairly typical behavior among avoidants and "commitmentphobes" (for lack of a better word).

There is a great book I recommend, a NY Times best seller years back, entitled "He's Scared, She's Scared, the Hidden Fears that Sabotage Your Relationships."

It discusses this very thing - fear of not being good enough.  Among many other common fears and anxieties many people experience, even those who are not necessarily avoidant.

You can purchase it on Amazon.com.

Asked before by a few people, but what does your therapist think and suggest?  

[HeartGoesOn]

6 hours ago, Whirling D said:

I’m hesitant to come on here again, since first of all, I don’t think the site is moderated all that well, and second, I was getting tired of the nasty, subtle comments that were meant more to make the poster feel powerful rather than to be helpful.  It’s not appropriate. I don’t come on here to read backhanded nasty comments that are derogatory and mean. If this is you, don’t post on my threads. If anything even comes close to being mean or nasty, I will report you and block you. I come on here for thoughtful perspective and encouragement. Not to defend mean condescension.  I won’t be on here as much over the next few days, but I will be reading, and may be replying with short thoughts. 

Whirling D,

With this being a public messaging board, you don't have the option of choosing who can reply to your postings.  However, you do have the option of utilizing the "block feature" where you can't view their replies.

As you know, you can report any rude/disrespectful postings to the mod team at your discretion.

Thank you.

 

[Whirling D]

41 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Jmo but this^ is less about her "expectations" whatever you're assuming her expectations to be. 

And more about your avoidant and fear of commitment issues (which you have admitted to) rearing their ugly heads, now that the relationship has moved away from fantasy and idealization and into reality. 

It's fairly typical behavior among avoidants and "commitmentphobes" (for lack of a better word).

There is a great book I recommend, a NY Times best seller years back, entitled "He's Scared, She's Scared, the Hidden Fears that Sabotage Your Relationships."

It discusses this very thing - fear of not being good enough.  Among many other common fears and anxieties many people experience, even those who are not necessarily avoidant.

You can purchase it on Amazon.com.

Asked before by a few people, but what does your therapist think and suggest?  

Very insightful post, rainbow. Thank you.

I haven’t talked to my therapist in about three weeks, due to vacations, etc. I’ll talk to her next week, although I thought about trying to reach her for a impromptu session today, but didn’t.

I am having a hard time discerning whether I am an avoidant or anxious attachment style. Many theorist suggest that people can actually oscillate between the two and have multiple characteristics, although they will center on one or the other. I’m tempted to say I’m more anxious attachment, but maybe you have another thought on that?

[rainbowsandroses]

52 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I am having a hard time discerning whether I am an avoidant or anxious attachment style. Many theorist suggest that people can actually oscillate between the two and have multiple characteristics,

Speaking personally, I have vacillated between avoidant attachment,  anxious attachment AND secure attachment depending on who I am dating or in a relationship with, and their style and actions.  I don't have just one attachment style. 

I only mentioned avoidant attachment because you described yourself that way in past relationships with women who were vocal about wanting a commitment with you. 

Not that your current girl has  even mentioned commitment but you're both discussing the future and the relationship has moved from the honeymoon fantasy stage to being very REAL..  

At that point, you began looking for flaws and reasons why the relationship wouldn't work..

This is what I see happening anyway, based on your posts on this thread and others you've created. 

Hidden Fears. You may not consciously be aware of your fear, which is why such issues are often  described as being "hidden."  As in the book I recommended. 

All you know is you're uncomfortable and looking for an out, reasons it won't work. 

 

 

 

[Whirling D]

18 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Speaking personally, I have vacillated between avoidant attachment,  anxious attachment AND secure attachment depending on who I am dating or in a relationship with, and their style and actions.  I don't have just one attachment style. 

I only mentioned avoidant attachment because you described yourself that way in past relationships with women who were vocal about wanting a commitment with you. 

Not that your current girl has  even mentioned commitment but you're both discussing the future and the relationship has moved from the honeymoon fantasy stage to being very REAL..  

At that point, you began looking for flaws and reasons why the relationship wouldn't work..

This is what I see happening anyway, based on your posts on this thread and others you've created. 

Hidden Fears. You may not consciously be aware of your fear, which is why such issues are often  described as being "hidden."  As in the book I recommended. 

All you know is you're uncomfortable and looking for an out, reasons it won't work. 

 

 

 

Very likely all true… But, as I get to know more about attachment style theory, there is no question that my main style is anxious.  I completely am terrorize thought of being abandoned or being left… 
 

The theory often states that all of these attachment styles are pretty much developed from infancy, although I wouldn’t necessarily believe that my childhood was that fraught with trauma that it should have cultivated this kind of abandonment anxiety. Yes, here I am.

I suspect that my pathetic anxious-ridden soul is likely looking for reasons to disengage, and she may be doing the same thing, who knows. Part of me hates to make a mistake… And then end up feeling more alone in a relationship than I might have otherwise, wishing for the perfect match.

We actually sat and watched a really good set of attachment videos the other day, and she was glued to the screen. I suspect that she is a bit avoidant, but I’m probably way more anxious than either of us with any style.

[rainbowsandroses]

48 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I completely am terrorize thought of being abandoned or being left… 

Yup, the book I referenced discusses this fear as well. 

There are many. 

So far you've admitted to:

1.  Fear of not being good enough, not living up to her expectations, and 

2.  Fear of abandonment.

There are many others such as fear of losing your freedom, fear of losing yourself in the relationship, fear of getting hurt (a big one), even fear they may gain weight and get fat! 

Just to name a few. 

Seriously order the book, it may provide you with an understanding you don't have now or expand on what you are aware of.

It's helped me A LOT!!  And I still refer to it from time to time. 

[rainbowsandroses]

Nothing is off limits or too "out there" when it comes to our fears and rationalizing to ourselves why a particular relationship won't work.

This is kinda funny but years ago, I knew this man from group therapy who was engaged to be married.  I recall when he first met her and he was absolutely head over heels crazy in love with her.  According to him, she was perfect! 

Once they got engaged, like that same night! he started scrambling around looking for the exit. 

Man, that guy was having a full blown panic attack!  

So he came up with that she didn't know how to scuba dive and he could never marry a woman who didn't scuba dive. 

Nevermind he never cared about this before AND she was willing to learn. 

But nope, it was over, he was done, he broke the engagement and never saw her again. 

 

[LootieTootie]

Have you both talked about being a couple but not living in the same house? Maybe she buys a house and lives closer to you?

My husband and I are very different. I am a germaphobe and yes, I also wipe my dogs paw when they come inside the house. I also vacuum and dust every day. My husband helps around the house but he will not do it every day or think its necessary to have a cleaning routine. But here we are, we compromise because if we didn't, we wouldn't be happy.

In the past, we both would voice our displeasures how the other cleaned such and such the wrong way, but again, comes down to compromises. Now we just give each other a kiss and say thank you. Part of growing with someone, you have to learn how to pick your battles. 

It sounds good and I think as much as you give her a lot of credit, she does seem a bit oblivious about how her judgmental comments (particularly over your house or your child) are not appropriate. I'm not sure if you've voiced your displeasure about how she came to your house and judged your house so harshly, but I would say in a firm tone: "doctorylady, this is my sanctuary. I put a lot of work and sweat into this house and I don't appreciate you judging my house." Her response might tell you a lot.