What’s next?

[rainbowsandroses]

@Whirling Dyou missed @bluecastle point which was - it's much MUCH to soon for this  "honeymoon" stage  to be fading, you're only a month in!

After that short of a time, it's not the honeymoon stage fading and you both 'settling in,' it's you both recognizing incompatibilities and that the attraction is just not happening, at least not how it should be after only one month. 

You're both trying to squeeze a round peg into a square hole which never works. 

[Whirling D]

And to answer blue’s question… I left her house Monday morning, and we talked for the full 45 minute ride home… By phone when we were driving… Then we talked that night video call for probably 45 minutes… But it was yesterday morning that it went South, and she said she was tired and cranky… then I didn’t hear from her last night or This morning.

Update… I just got a nice new text from her now, saying she’s been running around all day and is already exhausted… But she should be home and we will talk after 7 PM.  And then a heart emoji. That’s felt nice. 

As usual, I was my typical passive self and said something like, “text me when you are in and settled and I will call you then” rather than just call her when she said she hoped we would talk. It feels wishy-washy that I say stuff like that. I put all the power in her court, and take away a lot of my own initiative to make decisions on our behalf. I do that a lot, as well, though.

[Whirling D]

6 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@Whirling Dyou missed @bluecastle point which was - it's much MUCH to soon for this  "honeymoon" stage  to be fading, you're only a month in!

After that short of a time, it's not the honeymoon stage fading and you both 'settling in,' it's you both recognizing incompatibilities and that the attraction is just not happening, at least not how it should be after only one month. 

You're both trying to squeeze a round peg into a square hole which never works. 

Perhaps. It’s been more than a month, if That means anything. First time I got together with her was April 30. So we’ve known each other, and have been showing interest in each other for 10 weeks… Which is still new.

we’ve been sleeping with each other regularly for about six of those weeks, I’d say. Maybe eight. It’s been pretty intense… And it’s settling into a routine now. I like it. I hope it stays that way.

Yes, some of the sheen is wearing off, replaced by routine and comfort, but that was almost expected, particularly at our age, maybe?

just speculating.

 

[rainbowsandroses]

2 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

It’s been more than a month, if That means anything.

Not really, 10 weeks is still way too soon and I stick with my original opinion that you're both trying to force this to stick because of a couple of blissful weeks after you met.

Not sure why, perhaps your ages and belief (misbelief) that this may be your last chance or whatever. 

From an outsider's perspective looking at this, there is so much wrong here I wouldn't even know where to begin. 

But good luck and really do wish you both the best.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

  And don’t you wanna look better? Purple hair would make you look better.

She hasn't asked your opinion of her hair. You've asked her and brought it up yourself several times looking for affirmation.

Yes, the argument about purple hair is purely for arguments sake. Maybe she likes debating as much as you do? Try not to make your hair the focus of conversation. This is a simple thing to resolve.

Just slow down on asking about yourself because sooner or later she may run out of diplomatic ways to assuage your concerns

It's kind of beside the point anyway because you have an "I am who I am", stance anyway, which is fine but don't seem open to suggestions, so just be yourself.

[Batya33]

Just curious -with her beach house/cleaning -do you know if she's ever considered or has hired a cleaning service so she's not so exhausted from keeping it up a certain way?

[catfeeder]

One clean solution to Dr.’s imagined work culture scenario would be for her to continue attending those events solo, just as she’s done over the course of her career. She doesn’t need to pretzel her mind around trying to fit a person into a peripheral aspect of her life who has never asked to join such a thing in the first place.

Not only can this address this one premature fantasy about fitting you into this particular aspect of her life, it also acts as an “insert here where needed” solution to any other aspect of your lives where your earliest presumptions about partners performing in certain ways need challenging. These may be accepted as facts rather than revised by your current state of maturity. You’re allowed to break old molds that wouldn’t work well today. You’re not in your 20’s anymore, she doesn’t need her colleagues’ approval of her love life.

As for wearing herself out on cleaning her beach home, there are very reasonably priced services for that.

[bluecastle]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

And to answer blue’s question… I left her house Monday morning, and we talked for the full 45 minute ride home… By phone when we were driving… Then we talked that night video call for probably 45 minutes… But it was yesterday morning that it went South, and she said she was tired and cranky… then I didn’t hear from her last night or This morning.

Everyone is different, I get it, but by most standards this is...a lot. My girlfriend was recently away for a week, for a counterpoint. We spoke on the phone—wait for it—exactly zero times. Yes, that's maybe another extreme, and we've certainly chatted on other occasions when apart, but what you're describing is a level of tethering that few can sustain and that by its very nature can lead to a feral degree of dependency. 

Case in point being...

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

Update… I just got a nice new text from her now

In other words, nothing had actually gone south. What had happened is what has happened many, many times: your dealer didn't call you back and you got itchy. I would seriously look at that habit, and do what you can to adjust it, since (a) one very real difference between you two is that she has a taxing job that occupies her time and headspace and (b) every moment you spend gauging the success of this relationship on whether or not you're feeling that high is a moment when you are substituting intoxication for connection.  

But, zooming out, this is worth swinging back to and trying to spend a moment absorbing rather than defending: 

2 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

After that short of a time, it's not the honeymoon stage fading and you both 'settling in,' it's you both recognizing incompatibilities and that the attraction is just not happening, at least not how it should be after only one month. 

Now, I'm not saying that what's being recognized is definitely two people who don't work. Hardly. I'm just saying that you can't will this into the World's Deepest Relationship or the World's Most Singular Connection just because you want that more than anything. Ten weeks. That's still a blip. Saying that, owning that, embracing it, and so on, does not mean it's trivial. It simply allows for a clearer lens, and, with that, the opportunity to not mistake a gentle breeze for a hurricane and to be honest with yourself about what's most important—if you can be, and feel, like yourself alongside her. 

[Sindy_0311]

2 hours ago, Whirling D said:

As usual, I was my typical passive self and said something like, “text me when you are in and settled and I will call you then” rather than just call her when she said she hoped we would talk. It feels wishy-washy that I say stuff like that. I put all the power in her court, and take away a lot of my own initiative to make decisions on our behalf. I do that a lot, as well, though.

I think you are not being passive. But you prefer calling her when she will be in a good mood to avoid having her cranky or not available at all.
We don’t know that lady, so I might be wrong about her, but the more I read, the less I appreciate her… sorry to say. I asked whether she had children, but I guess not because she seems to have no flexibility at all. You try to calculate each steps of every move with her because she’s complicated and makes you feel uneasy. She’s also judgmental and lacks kindness especially when she says she couldn’t live in a house like yours. How can she even say that to a man she perfectly knows struggles financially. And again sorry to say, but this cleaning/germs mania its just ridiculous. Just my opinion. 

[catfeeder]

1 hour ago, bluecastle said:

...what you're describing is a level of tethering that few can sustain and that by its very nature can lead to a feral degree of dependency. 

Yes, and exhaustion. Speaking every day and every night? That's really not sustainable for most people with a busy life. Consider letting go of that, and embrace some autonomy and sanity.

[Whirling D]

3 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Not really, 10 weeks is still way too soon and I stick with my original opinion that you're both trying to force this to stick because of a couple of blissful weeks after you met.

Not sure why, perhaps your ages and belief (misbelief) that this may be your last chance or whatever. 

From an outsider's perspective looking at this, there is so much wrong here I wouldn't even know where to begin. 

But good luck and really do wish you both the best.

I am not entirely sure I see what you are seeing as being so much wrong. Because we have an income disparity? Because she’s much more conservative in presentation than I am? Because she feels awkward presenting me with long hair to her professional colleagues? 

I don’t really talk about the things that much that we have in common, and that we enjoy together. First and foremost, we are becoming really good friends. That accounts for tons.

I also haven’t said that the attraction is fading. The chemistry is still pretty strong between us.

Don’t forget, we are both 61 years old… And our age, I think priorities begin to shift. Friendship, and feeling good about each other rises to the top, where it should be, above so many other priorities.

I can talk to her in ways that I don’t think I often could with almost any other partner I’ve had. But, I can’t really put myself back in those places with any kind of real accuracy, because they were such a long time ago. The doctor in lady and I do think a lot alike in so many strange ways.  She had been saying fairly often that she thought the universe kind of arranged for her and I to meet. Seems like that conversation has been tapered off a bit with the onset of these latest red flags.

Isn’t it likely that every couple that gets together struggles with things that they are going to find difficult within each other? She has never said anything about not wanting to continue forward. She’s constantly talking about the future, despite these problems. It has toned down over the last week, which is probably why I’ve been more anxious. That could be just in my head, or it could be, realistic apprehension. I don’t yet feel the need to back away. As I said earlier, she has so much going for her, and we have so much going for us as a couple, despite the setbacks. I think it would be fairly tragic to see this thing implode. It may very well, but it would likely be due to my own incapacity to let things be what they are, similar to how I was incapable of doing that with my ex-wife. 

Of course, if the doctor lady starts taking on more of the characteristics of my ex-wife, that could be troublesome, although, I think the doctor lady is much more likely to be able to let go and just have fun then my ex-wife could. She could only to that under certain circumstances.  I didn’t really wanna live like that.  The doctor lady might pull up some of those same triggers for me, but I’m not counting on it yet. 

[Whirling D]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Just curious -with her beach house/cleaning -do you know if she's ever considered or has hired a cleaning service so she's not so exhausted from keeping it up a certain way?

That’s a good question, Bat.

She told me some financial details regarding the beach house over the weekend… For example, she said that she has to pay $20,000 a year for the taxes on this place. I didn’t really understand why she’s the only one paying those taxes, considering that the house really belongs to the entire family. She also put $300,000 in to it after on money, so I suspect she’s paying on that.  She says that the rest of the family really doesn’t put a dime into the place, but uses the place whenever they are around. Seems patently unfair to me, which I kind of said, but she didn’t seem to think there was much alternative. She’s not demanding and not aggressive in financial matters, I think. I think that’s why she’s paranoid about money.

She presents as being cash broke, which is hard to imagine with her profession, but I’m not one to doubt what she is saying. She spends money almost the same exact way that I do, and as if every penny counts. But then on the other hand, will buy a $300 purse. I think that’s just how people in her income bracket sometimes operate. They’ll take the big things that they want, but really cheap out on the day to day. 
 

 

[Whirling D]

2 hours ago, catfeeder said:

One clean solution to Dr.’s imagined work culture scenario would be for her to continue attending those events solo, just as she’s done over the course of her career. She doesn’t need to pretzel her mind around trying to fit a person into a peripheral aspect of her life who has never asked to join such a thing in the first place.

Not only can this address this one premature fantasy about fitting you into this particular aspect of her life, it also acts as an “insert here where needed” solution to any other aspect of your lives where your earliest presumptions about partners performing in certain ways need challenging. These may be accepted as facts rather than revised by your current state of maturity. You’re allowed to break old molds that wouldn’t work well today. You’re not in your 20’s anymore, she doesn’t need her colleagues’ approval of her love life.

As for wearing herself out on cleaning her beach home, there are very reasonably priced services for that.

I think you are correct. I just don’t think she has it in her to feel challenged by her dating life by any of her colleagues. She is very shy and introverted, even worse than me in many ways. She can’t imagine how I have the confidence to stand up in front of people and play music. I think she had some sort of hero worship when she found out I did that. To me it’s no big deal. I’m an Asian rock and roller that plays in a very mediocre cover band. To me that’s almost the dreggs of music performance… 🙂   
 

another example… She has a cousin that wanted to come up and visit her today. Originally she asked if I was available, and it wasn’t just because she thought I would enjoy it, but I think she felt she needed the padding… Because I think it makes her feel anxious to entertain people on her own like that, without somebody else to take off some of the pressure. That’s how I am, as well, so I get it. I wouldn’t be grudge her doing that, because I feel the exact same way about that kind of thing. I would love to have her around if I was going out to dinner with somebody I hadn’t seen for a long time. Just takes the pressure off of shy people like us. 

[Whirling D]

1 hour ago, bluecastle said:

Everyone is different, I get it, but by most standards this is...a lot. My girlfriend was recently away for a week, for a counterpoint. We spoke on the phone—wait for it—exactly zero times. Yes, that's maybe another extreme, and we've certainly chatted on other occasions when apart, but what you're describing is a level of tethering that few can sustain and that by its very nature can lead to a feral degree of dependency. 

Case in point being...

In other words, nothing had actually gone south. What had happened is what has happened many, many times: your dealer didn't call you back and you got itchy. I would seriously look at that habit, and do what you can to adjust it, since (a) one very real difference between you two is that she has a taxing job that occupies her time and headspace and (b) every moment you spend gauging the success of this relationship on whether or not you're feeling that high is a moment when you are substituting intoxication for connection.  

But, zooming out, this is worth swinging back to and trying to spend a moment absorbing rather than defending: 

Now, I'm not saying that what's being recognized is definitely two people who don't work. Hardly. I'm just saying that you can't will this into the World's Deepest Relationship or the World's Most Singular Connection just because you want that more than anything. Ten weeks. That's still a blip. Saying that, owning that, embracing it, and so on, does not mean it's trivial. It simply allows for a clearer lens, and, with that, the opportunity to not mistake a gentle breeze for a hurricane and to be honest with yourself about what's most important—if you can be, and feel, like yourself alongside her. 

All true, and well said, blue. Thank you.

She says she likes talking to me this much, and when we are talking, she seems really glad to be interacting. I don’t think she feels that comfortable talking to other people very much, so it’s meaningful that her and I can talk a lot and she can feel heard. That’s my take on it. 

when I see her, this much is clear… I really like her. I adore her. We enjoy each other’s company. It just seems to… Fit. These conversations about hair, and religion, seem to come a bit out of nowhere and cause havoc, whereas up and to those points, things just seemed to move rather easily.

The fact that I get all worked up about stuff, like not hearing from her for a day and a half, those are my issues, obviously. As you say, she is busy and a high-ranking professional. She has her own issues, and she’s aware of them. There is likely a bit of dependency going on between us. Not likely, clearly. Lots of people are like that, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s a bad thing. I’m not sure what that means, yet.

I was watching a really good video today about how to manage yourself if you’re feeling really insecure in a relationship. The presenter presented a lot of the same things that we talk about on here, so it wasn’t particularly new, but it was good to hear what she was saying.

Yeah, in a nutshell, she was saying that we have to learn that what we feel when we become dysregulated in such times does not mean that something bad is going to happen or that what we feel is inherently bad. It’s just a feeling. We can learn to understand that feelings don’t necessarily equate to facts, and if we allow ourselves to simply feel emotions, when we are anxious about something, we can then learn to compartmentalize those feelings and learn to look beyond them. 

She used the antidote of being hungry if you are trying to lose weight. Just because you are hungry, doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to eat. If you can become used to the feeling of being hungry, and separate that from the need to eat… Just allow yourself to feel hungry, and be OK with that, there is more likelihood that you can then make the better choice of not eating. I may not have presented that well, but you get the idea. 

Like today… I was very anxious. Maybe something was wrong. I started thinking about the facts. The facts didn’t entirely support that likelihood. Maybe a small possibility? Perhaps. But the overwhelming majority of the facts seemed to indicate that there was likely nothing really wrong other than she is very tired, perhaps, from even being ill.

I’m a little worried about that. She said she was having some tests at some point soon, and I can’t remember if it had something to do with some sort of lump in an area where there may be lymph nodes. It sounded suspicious. I’ll have to ask her again about it. I forgot about it. I hope that’s not why she’s been feeling tired and down for the last few days. 

When I saw her this weekend, I think I saw a little bit of what she can be like when she is dysregulated. It’s not great. She was anxious, even a bit snappy, definitely on overload. It was not a good look for her. But I do get it. When I worked all the time, I got like that as well. That’s not a feeling I ever want to feel again, which is one of the reasons, as I tell her, that I’m not keen on ever having to work like a dog like that again. Life is too short to feel that kind of fatigue and stress. But then, on the other hand, I have to deal with way too much free time, and the possibility of becoming depressed, because I lack contact with people. Who knows which is worse, but I suspect I’m much happier Now than I was when I worked full time, that’s for sure. 

[Whirling D]

27 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

Yes, and exhaustion. Speaking every day and every night? That's really not sustainable for most people with a busy life. Consider letting go of that, and embrace some autonomy and sanity.

I have plenty of autonomy, cat. I have every day of the week off, up until about 2 PM… And I do my activities. I go out for coffee in the morning a lot. This time of year I go out to farms and pick berries. Might go to the supermarket. Definitely have a lot to do around the house.
 

She doesn’t sit still either when she has time off. That’s part of her problem. She doesn’t have a lot of time off that is not taken up with something else. She has a lot of people interested in seeing her, and she has a mother that is almost 90 that she pretty much cares for on her own. Neither her brother or sister live anywhere nearby, so whenever her mother needs to go somewhere, she pretty much Has to call the doctor lady.  and she lives an hour away. 

It’s always hard for me to imagine how the doctor lady functions under such conditions. That’s why I’m trying to give her some space to self regulate. She needs it.

[Morello]

From my perspective, most relationships work (or don't work) simply by letting time do its thing and not by overanalysing and trying to respond or address every point of difference which might emerge.

I think it was Steve Jobs who said that every morning he used to wake up and ask himself "do I like the life I have now?". If, over a couple of weeks, more often than not, the answer would be "no", then he'd know he had to do something to change.

I can see how you could apply a similar tactic to your love life with her. On most days, does this seem like something that is bringing you joy, whatever such joy might look like for you? Only you can answer that. As blue said, some people like tearing a car apart rather than driving it, it's fine too. As long as you feel you are better off with the relationship than without it.

[Whirling D]

9 minutes ago, Morello said:

From my perspective, most relationships work (or don't work) simply by letting time do its thing and not by overanalysing and trying to respond or address every point of difference which might emerge.

I think it was Steve Jobs who said that every morning he used to wake up and ask himself "do I like the life I have now?". If, over a couple of weeks, more often than not, the answer would be "no", then he'd know he had to do something to change.

I can see how you could apply a similar tactic to your love life with her. On most days, does this seem like something that is bringing you joy, whatever such joy might look like for you? Only you can answer that. As blue said, some people like tearing a car apart rather than driving it, it's fine too. As long as you feel you are better off with the relationship than without it.

Thoughtful questions and posting. Thank you.
 

I would say that through the beginning of this past week, being with her has brought immense joy and value.  It’s when I’m not with her that my mind begins to falter, and I worry that hers might start to drift, as well.  
 

this weekend was likely the most complicated, and it’s probably because we are letting our true nature is come out a bit more, and we are taking the rose colored glasses off, if you will.

I still really like what I see, with some reservations. I suspect that’s the case with most couples, though.  There is nothing terrible between us… If someone was to ask me what my biggest gripes were, I would likely say that I am starting to see anxiety and avoidant behavior with her, and that’s triggering to me.  Also, clearly, for being a bit Jaggi here, and there hasn’t been great. Her tact during these conversations could use a bit of work.  
 

I bet if someone asked her what her grapes were about me, I’m willing to bet she would say that I overthink things way too much, to the point of it getting kind of invasive and annoying… That would really probably be the main thing for her.  She might say that I try too hard to make her happy, which might make some people feel uncomfortable. Who knows.

[rainbowsandroses]

Why it feels wrong to me Whirling is because it's become rather clear from your posts that you're unable to get comfortable with each other; it's either too close talking for hours on end or too distant where you're not talking at all. 

It's a relationship of extremes between two people of extremes, there's no balance. 

Perhaps it's due to your both being 'avoidant,' and if you read the book I recommended earlier, it explains it. 

Even on this forum and this is not a judgment or criticism I promise, but simply an observation, but read your posts as an objective observer. 

You're either writing post after post, extremely detailed and long-winded, ad nauseum expressing and over-analyzing thoughts and feelings (yours and hers) OR you're deleting your own thread and disappearing for days.

I expect this thread will eventually get deleted as well, you'll disappear for awhile, then return with a new thread and start all over again. 

Again, not a judgment simply trying to make a point about extremes.

The way you talk about her at times, so negatively, uncertain if things will work out giving her an out, when I think it's YOU who wants out

At least at that point in time until her mood (and yours) is on the upswing again and suddenly it's all special and right. 

And also the way she talks to you, this it not how a woman in love (she has expressed her love for you from what you've shared with us) speaks to her man and lord only knows how she talks about you to other people the way you talk to us about her at times. 

So much ambivalence and uncertainty, even dislike at times from what I've read.  Then back to adoring her, loving her in the opposite extreme. 

No relationship can survive these types of extremes, its utterly exhausting (emotionally) for both, at least not from what I've witnessed in my life. 

If you both can find some balance, individually and as a couple, you may have a chance. 

But you're both 61 years of age, set in your ways, so this could be a challenge but you could try assuming you DO want this to work out long term.

 

[LootieTootie]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

 It’s when I’m not with her that my mind begins to falter, and I worry that hers might start to drift, as well.  
 

Is that why you're always having these internal debates if you should contact her or not when you're not together?

Because this brings back to what BC said about this relationship having a feral degree of dependency, which Cat also pointed out that these relationships are rarely sustainable. & I agree with both.

Are you and drlady in this relationship because you truly adore/respect each other and is comforted in the feeling they make you feel when together and when not together? Or are you just in this relationship because you need validation and companionship?

[MissCanuck]

This is an exhausting level of over-analyzing, negativity and anxiety for a relationship in its infancy, D. 

It's not setting the stage for anything sustainable in the long-run. 

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

I asked whether she had children, but I guess not because she seems to have no flexibility at all.

I don't think it has anything to do with whether a man or woman is a parent (and this woman is a main caregiver for her 90 year old mom)- I know of parents of young/minor kids who have no flexibility -or only are flexible if it has to do with their kids - or they outsource care/kid related stuff to maintain their way of doing things and lessen the unpredictability of being a parent. 

The OP is a parent and is not flexible on major lifestyle choices -take me as I am - that's not a judgment -that is who he is and he is a parent. I don't think this woman has children because I think the OP mentioned that -that might be an issue if she has no experience with scheduling things around kids -non-parents often do get that if they have other experiences with parenting/kids etc.  Or they "get" that because they are people who are empathetic, thoughtful and caring.  

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, Whirling D said:

I’m a little worried about that. She said she was having some tests at some point soon, and I can’t remember if it had something to do with some sort of lump in an area where there may be lymph nodes. It sounded suspicious. I’ll have to ask her again about it. I forgot about it. I hope that’s not why she’s been feeling tired and down for the last few days. 

You forgot about it - that seems wildly inconsistent with how much you say you care about her and how frequently you need to be in touch??

I have friends -not even my very closest friends and I will put a reminder in my phone "follow up with Jane about her doctor visit" -so that if Jane told me she was having tests for a lump or some other sort of atypical tests and shared that with me - I will text her or call or whatever the day of or after "hi just checking in-how did it all go, I hope ok" - because I know with some exceptions I am likely to forget about the good and bad stuff -the job interview, the medical test, whatever.  Even if it's someone I love - I don't want to risk forgetting so I get a reminder notification -it's that easy. 

If you care as you say you do.  When I've been worried about a lump I've been out of sorts for sure (so far so good, thank goodness) -and her frenetic cleaning etc might have been a way she distracted herself. This is truly baffling -your "forgetting"

[Batya33]

Do you think perhaps in the way you judge her for being too busy/overscheduled so she needs time to "self regulate" you might consider your penchant for letting adult responsibilities slide/avoiding them - being more gainfully employed/working towards financial stability/maintaining a home that is more hygienic than presently? 

I was at least that busy when I was single and a high income earner - getting paid to be available basically 24/7 including on vacations and including when I was sick. 

I avoided dating men who didn't share in my work ethic/ambition/dedication to career - I didn't need a high income earner at all because -for example -nonprofits often require the same sort of schedule and obviously don't pay as much as private companies.  It simply was too frustrating and exhausting to me -especially as a woman with the silly stereotypes -to explain to a man why weekday dates had to be tentative a lot of the time, some weekend dates, and no I couldn't talk at length on the phone if I was waiting for one of my bosses to call, or a client. 

My counterparts were not dysregulated -they simply worked their behinds off like I did, they simply were dedicated to their careers as I was and I never ever judged anyone -man or woman -who worked just to put food on the table and/or had no career ambitions or educational ambitions -that was totally fine and totally not compatible for a romantic relationship. 

I was and am close with family members, friends, etc who could not relate to my career-related drive back then and are not ambitious/driven when it comes to paying jobs/careers/professions/education but when it came to looking for a husband I needed someone on the same page with me about professional educational and financial values.

And no I wasn't stingy day to day and lavish as you describe her.  I was saving my pennies to pay off my grad school loans then spent 11 years amassing a nest egg while single so if I married a lower wage earner I still could afford to be a SAHM for longer than maternity leave-I'd have the $ to contribute to the family income as if I was working. 

Having said that -I am proud of what I spent on myself -it was rare and I deserved it.  I spent $480 dollars on a gorgeous designer purse I saw in a store window and 20 years ago after an awesme promotion at work - I treated myself to it three months after -yes -atypically -falling in love with it in the window. 

I spent almost $2k on a non-blingy understated jewelry item 19 years ago -and that was with a steep discount from a friend in the business.  I just wore them again last week to a work related event. I love them and I don't apologize for treating myself to it. 

OTOH  -and simultaneously I gave away and still give away lots of $$ and items to various charitable organizations and gave countless hours of my time to organizations -working with kids and raising money for public radio (and I would leave work "early" at 6:30pm once a week to do so -so before you judge someone for working all those hours to make $ please know that a lot of people who volunteer do so even though after they have to go home and make up for the lost time at their paying jobs.  I also am a generous tipper and always always generous with friends and family.  

You have a very narrow perspective it seems and you're so quick to label what she does-yet you're so upset that as you see it society judges shy people, people who choose to not participate in the rat race etc.  It really does go both ways(and I agree with you shy people too often are judged unfairly -I'm married to and birthed two shy males who also are shorter than average). 

She's trying to make this work and I commend her for that - when I was in her shoes I  didn't want to risk getting involved with someone with such a drastically different lifestyle/outlook/perspective - maybe that was a mistake - too narrow minded -but that's how I saw it then.

[Wiseman2]

13 hours ago, Whirling D said:

 she should be home and we will talk after 7 PM.  , I was my typical passive self and said something like, “text me when you are in and settled and I will call you then” 

This seems polite and flexible not  "passive" or giving away "power". 

[Whirling D]

38 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Do you think perhaps in the way you judge her for being too busy/overscheduled so she needs time to "self regulate" you might consider your penchant for letting adult responsibilities slide/avoiding them - being more gainfully employed/working towards financial stability/maintaining a home that is more hygienic than presently? 

I was at least that busy when I was single and a high income earner - getting paid to be available basically 24/7 including on vacations and including when I was sick. 

I avoided dating men who didn't share in my work ethic/ambition/dedication to career - I didn't need a high income earner at all because -for example -nonprofits often require the same sort of schedule and obviously don't pay as much as private companies.  It simply was too frustrating and exhausting to me -especially as a woman with the silly stereotypes -to explain to a man why weekday dates had to be tentative a lot of the time, some weekend dates, and no I couldn't talk at length on the phone if I was waiting for one of my bosses to call, or a client. 

My counterparts were not dysregulated -they simply worked their behinds off like I did, they simply were dedicated to their careers as I was and I never ever judged anyone -man or woman -who worked just to put food on the table and/or had no career ambitions or educational ambitions -that was totally fine and totally not compatible for a romantic relationship. 

I was and am close with family members, friends, etc who could not relate to my career-related drive back then and are not ambitious/driven when it comes to paying jobs/careers/professions/education but when it came to looking for a husband I needed someone on the same page with me about professional educational and financial values.

And no I wasn't stingy day to day and lavish as you describe her.  I was saving my pennies to pay off my grad school loans then spent 11 years amassing a nest egg while single so if I married a lower wage earner I still could afford to be a SAHM for longer than maternity leave-I'd have the $ to contribute to the family income as if I was working. 

Having said that -I am proud of what I spent on myself -it was rare and I deserved it.  I spent $480 dollars on a gorgeous designer purse I saw in a store window and 20 years ago after an awesme promotion at work - I treated myself to it three months after -yes -atypically -falling in love with it in the window. 

I spent almost $2k on a non-blingy understated jewelry item 19 years ago -and that was with a steep discount from a friend in the business.  I just wore them again last week to a work related event. I love them and I don't apologize for treating myself to it. 

OTOH  -and simultaneously I gave away and still give away lots of $$ and items to various charitable organizations and gave countless hours of my time to organizations -working with kids and raising money for public radio (and I would leave work "early" at 6:30pm once a week to do so -so before you judge someone for working all those hours to make $ please know that a lot of people who volunteer do so even though after they have to go home and make up for the lost time at their paying jobs.  I also am a generous tipper and always always generous with friends and family.  

You have a very narrow perspective it seems and you're so quick to label what she does-yet you're so upset that as you see it society judges shy people, people who choose to not participate in the rat race etc.  It really does go both ways(and I agree with you shy people too often are judged unfairly -I'm married to and birthed two shy males who also are shorter than average). 

She's trying to make this work and I commend her for that - when I was in her shoes I  didn't want to risk getting involved with someone with such a drastically different lifestyle/outlook/perspective - maybe that was a mistake - too narrow minded -but that's how I saw it then.

Thank you for your thoughts, Bat. I enjoy reading your stories.

One of the difficulties with writing on a forum like this is that one can’t always describe all the details that fall in between the stories that I write on here.

Most of the time, stories that seem like judgment are not meant to be that way, but just to describe details. For example, I don’t really care at all if she buys expensive things for herself. I kind of feel good for her that she is able to do that, and I don’t think I feel any real resentment. I choose, the income bracket that I am in, and I have to take the consequences that come along with that. I’m completely OK with that. I remember walking through stores with her a couple of weekends ago and feeling really happy for her that she was able to look at different things and consider buying them for herself. I think I was even encouraging her to splurge on a few things to make herself happy. If I see her happy, it makes me happy.  I may feel a little envious, but not really. I have much of what I want and what I need, and I don’t feel this big need to have more all the time. I think I’m in a good place in my head in regards to that.

I haven’t felt any real judgment coming from her, regarding the way I live my life, with the exception of the hair thing, and maybe the strong chance that I won’t be able to travel with her the way that she may want. That’s kind of why I cornered her the other day and kind of said, “look, maybe after all of these things that you are saying, maybe we aren’t the best fit“. Maybe that was part manipulative as some of you have been saying, but part of that was looking at the facts. There’s part of me that is not sure how much I want to invest in something that is possibly going to fall apart in the future when she realizes that the fantasy she has may not be able to come to fruition. Does that make any sense? If looked at from that way, that’s not really manipulation, that’s basically putting your cards on the table. That’s how it felt to me at the time. Laying it out in front of her.

That being said, I think I’ve written on here many times why I choose the lifestyle I do. I worked like a dog for 20 years in my profession, spent about seven years in college in my 30s and early 40s, and worked multiple jobs in my 20s just to make ends meet. I knew how to work. 

I was tired, and cranky, and groggy, and hugely stressed out all the time. Saturdays, my wife would hit the ground running asking what we were going to do all day, and I could barely function for half the day because I was coming down from being completely wiped out and exhausted all the time. then, on Sunday, I had to psychologically regroup because I was stressed out about the thought of having to do it all over again. Is that something that I would want for myself in my aging years? I don’t. I don’t want that for myself. I value the time I have on this earth enough to know that’s not what I want. Part of me thinks I would rather be poor and partially depressed than living like that. That’s the choice I’ve made. 

Her and I have talked about that, and I see the stress and chaos in her. I have repeatedly offered her support and empathy with how she feels, and what she is experiencing, even when she was having her “crazy moments”. I told her I get it, because I’ve lived it.

So, we didn’t talk last night, since I offered to wait and talk today, and she took me up on it. But she described her day yesterday, and I think her head is just completely overloaded. She says that it is and I can hear it in her voice. She went on and on about how she had to go from one task to another the entire day off. she had to drive the hour each in heavy traffic to take her mother to appointment. Then, she had to drive an hour in the other direction to her own doctors appointment, which is related to the medical condition she had, which she said was found to be nothing, thankfully. And yes, I did forget she had even told me that story a couple of weeks ago about her needing tests…  she didn’t get into a great amount of detail, so I forgot. My brain still has a fair amount of overload on it, as well, and I do forget details. Her and I are very alike in that way. 

She said yesterday was a blur, and she was exhausted and mentally drained. If anything, one of my biggest worries now is that she is going to start thinking that having this relationship is just too much for her to handle and that it is causing her too much logistical stress. Her comment on the phone this morning was, “this is what happens when I try to have fun on a weekend… Everything I have to do just gets piled up while I’m away, and then I am a mess afterward”.

She didn’t say it was because of me specifically, because she likely would have gone to her beach, house, one way, or the other, whether she knew me or not. But I do take up a lot of her time in the evenings, when we talk, and on the way to her work in the morning, and when her and I see each other on her days off. 

I didn’t even want to bring up when we would see each other next, and I don’t think she is even thinking that far ahead. I think she presumed it won’t be until my next free weekend without my kid, which is more than a week away. I could certainly get up there this weekend for a few hours here, and there, when my kid is at work, but I’m almost unlikely to suggest it, considering when I asked her if she was going to be able to regroup this coming weekend by herself, she said she only had Sunday off because she has a friend coming in from out of town on Saturday, but she’s not entirely sure how long the friend will stay. That doesn’t sound like a great amount of time to regroup. She says she needs downtime, as I do. I have plenty of that, and if I didn’t, I’d be likely feeling the same way she is. 

Then, she has her vacation week the week after next, and she said this past weekend  she was hoping I could take days off to be up at the beach house with her, and I had to groan inside with the idea that I can’t just easily take days off from my teaching business to go up there, and that I also have my kid on my usual days, so there’s gonna be no easy times for me to go up there. I may try to figure something out, since it’s summer time, and the kids I teach have more flexibility, so I may be able to sneak up there at some point. 

 to answer rainbows question… I delete these posts, because sometimes I want to take a break from the distraction, and sometimes things are going well enough that I don’t need to purge what’s on my mind. I purge the darker thoughts that I have, and you guys don’t see a lot of the positive things, so to come to conclusions that her and I are simply not compatible, or that I am not happy, or that we don’t do fun things together, it’s not at all accurate. I wouldn’t be staying with her if we didn’t have a lot of those things going on. You hear pretty much about solely the darker things that go through my mind, for better for worse, Because that’s what is pressing at any given moment.

I am also self-conscious about leaving this kind of stuff available online, because who knows who might eventually see it, and figure out who wrote it. I don’t want to be leaving paper trails much any longer, so yes, you will likely see this thread disappear in the not too distant future, as well. 

So, my biggest fear that I will probably carry a little bit throughout the day is whether or not this lady is going to back away of this relationship because of the logistics. I’m sure all the other factors are thrown in there, as well, but her being as stressed out over the last few days as she has been, and to the degree that she hasn’t really been able to get outside of her head to check in and say hi, makes me feel that something is unsustainable, either for her or for me. I really hope that’s not the case, but I’m wondering if the facts are leaning in that direction… i.e., tapering off of day-to-day correspondences, although it’s only been for the last little while… Extreme stress, and distraction on her part, which may or may not have anything to do with me, very little affectionate emojis or indicators through texts, which was always common, and also considerably less affection when I was up there over the weekend. Again, each of these things may or may not have anything to do with me, and may have more to do with where she is in her head with other things like responsibilities and career. she has said that she has been stressed out about those things, so maybe I’m just seeing them more and more since the “honeymoon phase” is starting to taper off to day-to-day reality.  It’s not really totally clear which of those explanations may be true, although I probably have more facts, leaning toward that this is just a natural evolution of this particular relationship.

I think if I was to ask her right now, she would say that yes, she is stressed out, but yes, she is happy with the way things are going. That could just be my wishful thinking, but I don’t think so. I think she really wants this to work out, and I think she really cares for me, as I do for her. That doesn’t mean they’re won’t be stressors, and then compatibilities, but isn’t that the case with almost every situation?

It was a reasonably nice chat we just had on the phone for her drive to work, though. She told me how her days have been over the last few, and she asked me about mine. She wasn’t as bright and cheery, as she usually is, and I don’t know if that has anything to do with me or not. 

So, it is what it is. I can’t change whatever she is experiencing. I just need to keep moving forward, whether it’s with her or without. I do hope it’s with, but I also have to start being aware of what costs might be involved. If this turns into a similar situation with my ex-wife, where she’s stressed out all the time and can’t find a time or energy to self regulate, that could be problematic. But I don’t know that to be true yet. there’s still a lot of joy inside of her, and that’s what I find myself gravitating toward. This may just be a slightly slick patch, who knows.