30 And Never Had A Girlfriend, Too Ugly?

[Carnatic]

The whole driving thing really is a bone of contention huh.

Honestly I'd recommend just leaving that topic alone because people aren't gonna agree on it, it depends where you live and to an extent what age and social circles you move in. Yes there are plenty of things that you can do if you have access to a vehicle and a number of these things can make you a better date (however I would not expect a woman I've just dated a few times to get in a car with me and wouldn't ask her to) but unless you live somewhere where cars are a key cultural thing and/or places are so spread apart with poor public transport so you would struggle to get about without a car then it's likely it's a non-issue.

I couldn't tell you which people in my circle of friends drive, unless I've actually had a lift of them before, and there are people I've known for years who don't know that I drive because there's not been a situation where I've driven them anywhere... and I'm 39, but every circle of friends I've had, whether at school, university or the places I've lived since, it's been a minority who drive and nobody really cares or asks whether you can or can't. I learned to drive at 19 but didn't own a car until I was 25, I've never lived anywhere where not driving would be a big disadvantage. It sounds like in some places it's a key thing about you up there with 'do you drink/smoke' and do you 'want/have children' which is fair enough, in some places it's a cultural thing and in some places it's just an essential thing.

[Batya33]

31 minutes ago, Carnatic said:

The whole driving thing really is a bone of contention huh.

Honestly I'd recommend just leaving that topic alone because people aren't gonna agree on it, it depends where you live and to an extent what age and social circles you move in. Yes there are plenty of things that you can do if you have access to a vehicle and a number of these things can make you a better date (however I would not expect a woman I've just dated a few times to get in a car with me and wouldn't ask her to) but unless you live somewhere where cars are a key cultural thing and/or places are so spread apart with poor public transport so you would struggle to get about without a car then it's likely it's a non-issue.

I couldn't tell you which people in my circle of friends drive, unless I've actually had a lift of them before, and there are people I've known for years who don't know that I drive because there's not been a situation where I've driven them anywhere... and I'm 39, but every circle of friends I've had, whether at school, university or the places I've lived since, it's been a minority who drive and nobody really cares or asks whether you can or can't. I learned to drive at 19 but didn't own a car until I was 25, I've never lived anywhere where not driving would be a big disadvantage. It sounds like in some places it's a key thing about you up there with 'do you drink/smoke' and do you 'want/have children' which is fair enough, in some places it's a cultural thing and in some places it's just an essential thing.

I like how you put it -it's going to go in circles.  I did want to say -as part of dating - from the time we were teenagers and dating we knew never to get in a car with a guy on the first date if we didn't know him well and if we did to make sure we had another way to get home - like if the guy got drunk etc.  I had one situation where I stupidly let the guy drive me home after a first meet (personal ad in the 1990s) when I should have just walked.  He got very handsy and I felt very uncomfortable.

[MysteriousTelephone]

12 hours ago, mylolita said:

Both the OP and Canartic are struggling in love, can’t drive but say it doesn’t matter, but have women on here saying it does, and other people saying it is a good useful thing. The OP is asking for a girlfriend I take it, not a hook up. A girlfriend will generally care about a whole lot more than a casual hook up would. They won’t care if you drive, have a job, have an apartment. A girlfriend? She will be looking for more. Why limit your options with women when you are already struggling and write off people like me? (LOL! Look, I know you wouldn’t want to date me, I’m saying women like me or who have similar preferences). If you have it worked out with the ladies, why bother arguing about it? We are just saying hey, x y and z are attractive to us! Take it or leave it, Y’know? 

I would disagree, you've been presented with all of the information I have to give, and picked on the one thing I've not done, and held it up as shining example of why I'm single. Imagine if I did drive, what would we be talking out? A partner who can drive may be a positive boon for a lot of people, they do have to go through a lot of information and conversation before that comes up. If you're in a bar or club, chances are nobody is driving home. Do ugly people with cars have to wear certain apparel so that potential partners know from a distance that they are 'proper adults' and can transport a buggy with ease?

12 hours ago, mylolita said:

You want to attract a quality woman. You can sit and wait and carry on doing what you are doing or you can make some more changes and see what happens.

 

What I find important in a guy is obviously not what all women find important. I find it important that a man can physically handle himself and isn’t a push over. Some women even find that kind of quality unattractive, or even maybe dangerous and unappealing. I’m not saying each women’s individual preference is going to suit every guy. 


To answer your question, as animals, we size people up almost instantly. Before they even say anything! There have been many many a psychological study on this. We make all kinds of assumptions, everyone does, some people more than other but it is an animalistic left over survival trait humans have. Men do it to other men as well, women to other women. We have social hierarchies as well, just like other animals. There is a pecking order. Put a whole bunch of men in a room, and it won’t matter how much they earn or how many degrees they have, a dominant man will come forward and naturally lead those other men. They aren’t always physically the biggest either. The same applies for women. Have a bunch of women work together or live together for a long period, and all the other womens menstral cycles will synch with the most dominant woman’s menstrual cycle. This happens with primates also in the natural world.  I mean, it’s not just Jordan Peterson who is a Harvard psychologist and best selling author who talks about this - there are absolutely countless studies to go on and research. If you think people just need to talk to you and  don’t judge one bit across a room - I would say, I am sorry, you are quite naive I’m afraid! 
 

We all have different talents, different natural attributes. My husband for example, is an extremely confident guy. You tell him he can’t do something and he’s gonna prove you wrong. He doesn’t fear rejection, doesn’t think anyone is too good for him - he would ask out women no matter how beautiful they were, and he got them too! He runs his own business, is self made. There is no way he would be on an advice forum! The concept of that is alien to him. He wouldn’t get it. His take on advice is going to shoot pool with his friends and bouncing some ideas off them. But! He can’t dancer for s**t! And you can dance! He wouldn’t know the first thing about dancing, or how too - and he wouldn’t be able to do it either. It doesn’t come natural to him, but talking to and appealing to women does come naturally to him. Dancing is a natural gift for you, something you are good at. Sometimes, we have to work at things we don’t have a natural ability for. If your appearance is not as attractive as some other men, you may have to work harder and branch out, try different avenues, try different approaches.
 

You can try things, see if they work. That’s all anyone can do in life. You can’t say it won’t work until you try.
 

I don’t get the negative backlash at the suggestion of getting a drivers license - not sure what is so terrible about being able to drive, or that somehow if you got your license you would be chained to the wheel and never use ya legs again but, I think I’m living in a much more traditional world here the more I read this thread! 

 

Like @tattoobunnieI think I have made my suggestions, useful or not, is up to the OP - and, I tap out - LOL! 
 

I also wish you the best of luck OP. 
 

x

I mean, I certainly wouldn't call being out socially 5 nights out of 7, mixing with new people to be "sitting and waiting", you can't say I'm not putting the effort in.

Yes, I agree that people size each other up very quickly, my point is that many of the qualities you desire are not visible to the naked eye, so devoid of any other information it becomes "hot or not". Outside of maybe wearing a suit or an expensive looking watch, there are very few cues as to someone's financial situation or career prospects. My friends who are IT managers don't dress well, one who is a building-site manager dresses like a builder, but he's on 60K, you wouldn't pass him in a bar and smell money, you'd find that out because you're talking to him because you like the look of him.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but what I'm saying is that a lot of it doesn't seem to apply to these situations: the unemployed 18 year olds, as well as the 30 year olds living with their parents, are doing better than me. I'm playing by the rules as much as I understand them, then I'm being told it's somehow not enough, despite people who've put a lot less effort in, doing far better.

11 hours ago, Distressedmamma said:

I agree with mylolita. Psychology says people make a judgement on somebody within 3 seconds of meeting them (or seeing a photo). There's an element of physical attraction.. but when i tried out tinder previously if I saw a bulked gym photo of a guy I wasnt interested. Which is funny because I enjoy the gym and being active and fit... but I can't stand the self obsessed men that spend every minute there and take photos of themselves all jacked up. To me it says they're rather self obsessed. I've never taken a photo inside a gym. I've also swiped left on people who have hunting photos, because I can't stand the macho display of dead animal. I think people should hunt for food, not sport. And I always swipe left on people with fishing or nightclub photos. 

None of that is to do with their looks at all, but rather the instant knowledge that our interests would make us incompatible. 

A picture tells a thousand words. If your picture was of you dancing a salsa or something I'd say it makes your masculinity seem slightly less (nothing wrong with that, it's appealing to some and not to others). A passport style photo is usually not appealing as it lacks imagination and might portray boring.  Pictures of people with a dog is always known as getting way more attention... so yeah. I'd be checking the fine details like that too.

To be clear, while I do have an athletic physique, I'm really not one for selfies, gym or otherwise. I was very careful to pick photos that looked natural and displayed hobbies, such as playing sport or being out with friends. I really don't have many photos of me dancing, at events photographers tend not to take photos of me, choosing the more attractive people instead.

I did actually borrow a puppy for a Tinder photo once! A friend had a black lab puppy, so I got a photo with it, looking quite outdoors-y, feeling good. Didn't do anything for my matches: and if a photo with a Labrador puppy can't get you any attention, you need to sit yourself down and ask yourself some questions.

8 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Yes. This is my point precisely. Not everyone who lives in the city needs to own a car, but without even a driver's license you can't rent a car for any reason.

You can't rent a car for the day or an errand or a weekend or a truck to move or anything. It's a huge disadvantage. Like being under 18 and not being "allowed" to do something.

So the argument about "I don't need a car" is moot. It's about the licence. It's about forced dependence on others when there's no need and being freer and more responsible.

Absolutely not, I'm not dependent on anyone. I get myself wherever I need to go, when I moved I hired a moving company, it's literally one step from renting the van. I've never needed to escape the city quickly, but should I feel the need, trains are very regular. About... twice or three times a year there'll be an event that's in the countryside and is a ball-ache to get to if you don't drive, but that would not justify the spend on my part.

[DarkCh0c0]

Honestly OP, if it's about your looks so much, either post a pic so we can help, or, better yet, talk to a professional 🤷‍♀️ We don't know you. You sound good on paper, but something is getting in your way and only someone who knows you irl can give you valuable honest feedback.

This whole post has become a waste of time. I hope there isn't some troll behind the screen.

[Wiseman2]

37 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

that would not justify the spend on my part.

Is the cost of driving lessons/a license a hold up? What about dating? Is spending to go places where women are or on quality dating apps an issue? Something is up besides "I don't like how my face looks".

[Carnatic]

On 11/6/2022 at 7:23 AM, mylolita said:

Both the OP and Canartic are struggling in love, can’t drive but say it doesn’t matter, but have women on here saying it does, and other people saying it is a good useful thing.

I never said I couldn't drive.

[MysteriousTelephone]

16 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

Honestly OP, if it's about your looks so much, either post a pic so we can help, or, better yet, talk to a professional 🤷‍♀️ We don't know you. You sound good on paper, but something is getting in your way and only someone who knows you irl can give you valuable honest feedback.

This whole post has become a waste of time. I hope there isn't some troll behind the screen.

I do believe we are at the point where I could literally put up a photo of anyone, and I'd get the cartoonish "There's nothing wrong with you, it must be because you don't drive!", so what's even the point? I assure you, I'm not a troll, I just genuinely cannot understand how I can be some form of 'ok' and still get to 30 without anyone wanting me.

16 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Is the cost of driving lessons/a license a hold up? What about dating? Is spending to go places where women are or on quality dating apps an issue? Something is up besides "I don't like how my face looks".

I mean... the average cost of maintaining a car is £3,500 in the UK. Even just to get a licence and still not drive, an intensive driving course is about £1,000. For those who need to, earn their money by driving, have a job that requires it, or have family to transport, it's absolutely a necessary spend.

Now as I continue to mention, my life in the city allows me to live a full life and not miss out on anything, what need have I, right now, to spend £1K to continue to not drive?

[Kwothe28]

On 11/5/2022 at 1:44 AM, MysteriousTelephone said:

I mean, it should go without saying that your first relationship is a milestone of becoming an adult, either successful or otherwise. Literal 14 year olds can just exist and fall into relationships (with other 14 year olds, I hasten to add), though when I come on here and am awfully concerned that being in my 30s, and treated as an ugly person, makes this difficult, I am told it's: because I don't drive, because I don't own my own place, that I'm trying too hard, that I'm not trying hard enough, that I'm too negative, that I need to take cooking classes, overhaul my wardrobe and also find time to ask out 100 women on the street. I mean, just to clarify, your average teenager has none of those things, so you can imagine my frustration when verifiably they are doing better than me romantically. And it's not an 'elite' select few, most people have a relationship before they're 20.

I have a nephew. He met some girl and knocked her up when he was 18. He is dirt poor. They got separated soon after the baby was born, think he went to army now. Anyway, what I wanted to say is, I dont think you should compare yourself to him. As you are in a much, much better position then him even without a girlfriend. OK, he got some girl and got her pregnant, big deal. Maybe from your perspective that seems "unatainable". But its really not that special if you dont meet the right one.

Also, you are comparing apples and oranges. When you are a teen, there is almost always one perimeter that matters, and that is looks. If that boy/girl is cute, that is it. When you are an adult, ofcourse you are going to be judged by many perimeters. Many of them wont be your looks. But you are so overtly focused on it so you cant see any other factor that could and would make the girls like you. Average teenager doesnt have to try to meet new girls a lot, they go out almost every day if they are not anti-social. You do have to try. Cooking classes, even meeting women on the street are so you could increase your chances of meeting your match. Same with stuff like job, or house and car. Average teenager doesnt bother with those things. You are in 30s, you are somewhat expected to have a stable job at least. 

Again, you are too focused on looks. So you see yourself as "ugly". And that holds you back by a lot. If you dont see yourself as somebody that has something to offer and can get girls, those girls wont see that too. That is where maybe some nice wardrobe would help. You would maybe feel better and more confident to approach girls and build on that.

But you didnt do any of those stuff. Dress up nicely and go to some place to meet girls. Go introduce to 10 of them. Out of 10, I guarantee that you would at least connect with some to take a phone number and call her on a date. Do that couple of times and you should at least find a girlfriend. Yes, dating is hard. Extra hard if you are not good looking. That doesnt mean its impossible as much as you think it is. It just means that you, unlike somebody good looking, need to make an extra efforts. But you seem to be unwilling to do that.

[Carnatic]

Out of interest OP, what is your sense of style like, are you able to describe the kinds of clothing that appeal to you, or that you are most likely to wear out of the house? It's a factor in attraction, and something that can work in your favour if you are naturally unattractive.

It's subjective of course, I know the way I look wouldn't appeal to women who are after a clean-cut understated professional-looking guy, but it's a personality thing and I'm working under the assumption that a woman I'd be attracted to would be put off by a clean-cut understated professional-looking guy. You want to be visually appealing but it's also about trying to say 'this is what my personality is like'.

All that said, it isn't plain sailing. Dressing up draws attention and if your physical features, face etc aren't especially attractive then sometimes it does feel like you're showcasing that. Sometimes I do feel like I'm not attractive enough to be allowed to dress the way I do, particularly if I've attracted unkind comments from people. I mentioned earlier in this thread about people coming up to me and telling me I'm ugly, it doesn't happen if I dress down, and go out always with just a hoody and jeans... as I did for a spell in my early thirties, but I don't like that.

Maybe some people feel that if you dress up then you must think that you're attractive and that it's up to them to give you a dose of reality, I dont know, but it does mean I feel more self-conscious for having put in the effort to look good with how I dress and style myself. I know that I can be eye-catching, especially with my hair, which is quite distinctive, and that invites scrutiny, and I do feel that even if I just had very average and plain features I'd feel more like I was just seen as pulling it off and less as a curiosity because an ugly guy is trying to be all stylish. I don't know whether your style is similar but I mean these things regardless of whether your style is more colourful and bohemian, clean-cut and professional or whatever.

[boltnrun]

I really wish the women who post on this forum that say they are struggling with dating could somehow communicate with the male posters who are having the same issue. It would be interesting to see what they may or may not have in common. It would also dispel that myth I keep seeing from some men that insists "ALL women are constantly bombarded with interest from men. They're just being too picky!"

[Batya33]

17 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I really wish the women who post on this forum that say they are struggling with dating could somehow communicate with the male posters who are having the same issue. It would be interesting to see what they may or may not have in common. It would also dispel that myth I keep seeing from some men that insists "ALL women are constantly bombarded with interest from men. They're just being too picky!"

I got a lot of interest over my 24 dating years. So what? For almost all of those years I was looking for a husband and potential child and no I was not too picky.  The number of men who wanted to date me and/or getting to know me was not the problem -finding one who met my values and standards and where we also had chemistry and common goals -felt like needle in haystack.  And I believed I had a reasonable list, relatively short and basically wanted what I was offering in return.

[waffle]

15 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

The number of men who wanted to date me and/or getting to know me was not the problem -finding one who met my values and standards and where we also had chemistry and common goals -felt like needle in haystack. 

Literally every single woman I know has said this exact same thing.  Including me.

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I got a lot of interest over my 24 dating years. So what? For almost all of those years I was looking for a husband and potential child and no I was not too picky.  The number of men who wanted to date me and/or getting to know me was not the problem -finding one who met my values and standards and where we also had chemistry and common goals -felt like needle in haystack.  And I believed I had a reasonable list, relatively short and basically wanted what I was offering in return.

Also, the sense of entitlement that SOME men have (I am not at all implying the OP does this!) that women are required to reciprocate whenever a man messages them or shows interest. One time I was at a bar with my friends and a man sent us a round of drinks. Then he proceeded to come to our table and ask which of us would be going home with him to have sex. When we declined he said "But I bought you a drink! You OWE me!" Unreal. 

Chemistry and compatibility are funny things. You can have one or the other but both is a rare thing. Which makes it even more special. My BIL was so fortunate to have found both with his wife when he was about 34 years old. They have a wonderful marriage. Thankfully he didn't give up searching.

[DarkCh0c0]

1 hour ago, waffle said:

Literally every single woman I know has said this exact same thing.  Including me.

And we shouldn't settle for any less.

[Mammalyssa]

3 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I really wish the women who post on this forum that say they are struggling with dating could somehow communicate with the male posters who are having the same issue. It would be interesting to see what they may or may not have in common. It would also dispel that myth I keep seeing from some men that insists "ALL women are constantly bombarded with interest from men. They're just being too picky!"

I actually don't know any women that havnt had issues with the unwanted attention of men. I've had this problem all of my life when I go out and now that I'm late 30s I'm quite intolerant and annoyed by it. It's refreshing when you go out and chat to someone without an agenda. I have rules about never being alone when I'm out - I stay with my friends at all times because the level of harassment increases tenfold if you're a woman standing alone. Actually makes me angry. And yes I keep my assets covered up. 

[boltnrun]

41 minutes ago, Distressedmamma said:

I actually don't know any women that havnt had issues with the unwanted attention of men. I've had this problem all of my life when I go out and now that I'm late 30s I'm quite intolerant and annoyed by it. It's refreshing when you go out and chat to someone without an agenda. I have rules about never being alone when I'm out - I stay with my friends at all times because the level of harassment increases tenfold if you're a woman standing alone. Actually makes me angry. And yes I keep my assets covered up. 

I think it's important to be particular. Not just swiping right on every single photo but really taking the time to see if the person is even someone you'd want to get to know.

Some people think it's a numbers game. The more you swipe the greater your chances are of having someone swipe back. But that's just a setup for failure IMO. I want the right person, not just one who happened to swipe after I did because I just wanted someone to respond to me.

I think those swiping apps are setups for failure. It's strictly looks based. Not like other dating sites where you pay to see full profiles, not just a photo. I tend to photograph terrible, I always look angry for some reason, so I imagine I wouldn't get any swipes lol. Maybe that's why I seldom got harassed when I went to bars alone. I must look like I'm in a bad mood so everyone leaves me alone.

Anyway, I have no idea if any of this is helpful to the OP. I would like it if he came back in a month or three months to tell us about the woman he's been dating. 

[MysteriousTelephone]

10 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

Again, you are too focused on looks. So you see yourself as "ugly". And that holds you back by a lot. If you dont see yourself as somebody that has something to offer and can get girls, those girls wont see that too. That is where maybe some nice wardrobe would help. You would maybe feel better and more confident to approach girls and build on that.

But you didnt do any of those stuff. Dress up nicely and go to some place to meet girls. Go introduce to 10 of them. Out of 10, I guarantee that you would at least connect with some to take a phone number and call her on a date. Do that couple of times and you should at least find a girlfriend. Yes, dating is hard. Extra hard if you are not good looking. That doesnt mean its impossible as much as you think it is. It just means that you, unlike somebody good looking, need to make an extra efforts. But you seem to be unwilling to do that.

I really feel like you're trying here, but seem to have not read much of my posts.

How do you define me being 'unwilling' to dress up nicely and go to places to meet girls, when it's literally something I've repeatedly mentioned that I do? I would say I'm out socially 4-5 nights out of 7 every week, that's not insignificant or 'unwilling to try'. I do appreciate the game theory that it's just a numbers game if you just keep at it, you used the 'out of 10' example: now picture doing that, consistently, for 12 years and coming up with zero? That's pretty soul crushing.

8 hours ago, Carnatic said:

Out of interest OP, what is your sense of style like, are you able to describe the kinds of clothing that appeal to you, or that you are most likely to wear out of the house? It's a factor in attraction, and something that can work in your favour if you are naturally unattractive.

It's subjective of course, I know the way I look wouldn't appeal to women who are after a clean-cut understated professional-looking guy, but it's a personality thing and I'm working under the assumption that a woman I'd be attracted to would be put off by a clean-cut understated professional-looking guy. You want to be visually appealing but it's also about trying to say 'this is what my personality is like'.

All that said, it isn't plain sailing. Dressing up draws attention and if your physical features, face etc aren't especially attractive then sometimes it does feel like you're showcasing that. Sometimes I do feel like I'm not attractive enough to be allowed to dress the way I do, particularly if I've attracted unkind comments from people. I mentioned earlier in this thread about people coming up to me and telling me I'm ugly, it doesn't happen if I dress down, and go out always with just a hoody and jeans... as I did for a spell in my early thirties, but I don't like that.

Maybe some people feel that if you dress up then you must think that you're attractive and that it's up to them to give you a dose of reality, I dont know, but it does mean I feel more self-conscious for having put in the effort to look good with how I dress and style myself. I know that I can be eye-catching, especially with my hair, which is quite distinctive, and that invites scrutiny, and I do feel that even if I just had very average and plain features I'd feel more like I was just seen as pulling it off and less as a curiosity because an ugly guy is trying to be all stylish. I don't know whether your style is similar but I mean these things regardless of whether your style is more colourful and bohemian, clean-cut and professional or whatever.

Sure, I'll do my best. I suppose I prefer a more 'rugged' style, loosely inspired by workwear or military. I do my best to showcase my athletic physique, so as we enter the colder months, going out I would opt for a well-fitting sweater with a waffle texture, paired with jeans and a racer leather jacket. I tend towards 'slim' or 'fitted' cuts of clothes, but try to steer clear of 'tight'. In the summer I might go for a fitted polo shirt in navy, in my head I'm cutting a James Bond silhouette. I find darker colours compliment my skin tone, and because I have blue eyes I do have a fair amount of blue/navy in my wardrobe. I don't like clothes with big logos, or t-shirts with pictures or slogans on them, so a lot of my wardrobe is fairly simple. I do get compliments on my clothes a fair bit, though I do wonder if it is genuine, or if people feel the need to pay a compliment so they just pick out something I'm wearing.

7 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I really wish the women who post on this forum that say they are struggling with dating could somehow communicate with the male posters who are having the same issue. It would be interesting to see what they may or may not have in common. It would also dispel that myth I keep seeing from some men that insists "ALL women are constantly bombarded with interest from men. They're just being too picky!"

I would say that women generally have different problems when it comes to dating, that "too much attention" can be as dispiriting as too little. Most women I know generally have at least a few guys just hanging around hoping they will end up with them, and that's it's own problem. I don't believe women are being 'too' picky, because as I've seen, literally everybody else is doing better than me, The Elephant Man got married in his 20s.

[Batya33]

Do you feel you give out approachable, positive vibes and energy? Do you want to make people feel comfortable in their own skin when they are around you? Are you curious about people and do you ask good follow up questions without being prying? How's your posture? 

I think many posts ago I recommended volunteering backstage at community theater helping to build sets and/or do costumes or lighting etc - it's a great way to meet people and conversation is easy while you're working. 

Several of my friends have done this on and off for the last 15 years -I got a few of them involved -even though I actually never have!  We have a very private introverted male friend in his 50s who lost his wife around 6 years ago after she was ill for a couple of years - and I suggested this to him and he joined and from all I can tell he has met people, made friends, found a community of sorts.  It's lovely to see (no he is not remarried and no I do not know if he is dating - but he is fine looking -not "hot" - just - average pleasant looking, etc.).  

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

. I do get compliments on my clothes a fair bit, though I do wonder if it is genuine, 

You've already determined that it's not your physique or clothes. Or that you're introverted or a homebody. So there's no point to keep deliberating and defending that.

You've already stated that your conclusion is that your facial appearance must be the reason.

It doesn't matter how many anecdotal stories there are about  plain people finding relationships. It doesn't address your particular situation.

What matters is you're convinced that the only reason for not having a relationship is because of your face. Even though there are plenty of other factors.

So, since you already have your fixed conclusion, what do you plan to do? 

Your logic and premises and arguments are based on nonfactual information attempting to rule out everything else. 

It's like saying "I don't see anyone walking their dogs. Ergo: no one in my neighborhood has dogs". 

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

12 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Do you feel you give out approachable, positive vibes and energy? Do you want to make people feel comfortable in their own skin when they are around you? Are you curious about people and do you ask good follow up questions without being prying? How's your posture? 

I think many posts ago I recommended volunteering backstage at community theater helping to build sets and/or do costumes or lighting etc - it's a great way to meet people and conversation is easy while you're working. 

Several of my friends have done this on and off for the last 15 years -I got a few of them involved -even though I actually never have!  We have a very private introverted male friend in his 50s who lost his wife around 6 years ago after she was ill for a couple of years - and I suggested this to him and he joined and from all I can tell he has met people, made friends, found a community of sorts.  It's lovely to see (no he is not remarried and no I do not know if he is dating - but he is fine looking -not "hot" - just - average pleasant looking, etc.).  

Again, I would say so, because I've been able to make friends very easily, from every walk of life, which is something people struggle with. I'm a fairly upbeat person, if I was just throwing out negative energy and making people feel uncomfortable, I don't think I would be that successful in making friends. I do ask good follow-up questions, and my posture is fine.

It's not that I'm super against volunteering in community theatre, but like I said, I do believe another regular commitment would cut into the several ones I already have, and something would have to drop. I'm also not terribly interested in volunteering in community theatre, meaning if I did it, it would be to meet a woman, and that's just not a great reason to do volunteering.

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You've already determined that it's not your physique or clothes. Or that you're introverted or a homebody. So there's no point to keep deliberating and defending that.

You've already stated that your conclusion is that your facial appearance must be the reason.

It doesn't matter how many anecdotal stories there are about  plain people finding relationships. It doesn't address your particular situation.

What matters is you're convinced that the only reason for not having a relationship is because of your face. Even though there are plenty of other factors.

So, since you already have your fixed conclusion, what do you plan to do? 

Your logic and premises and arguments are based on nonfactual information attempting to rule out everything else. 

It's like saying "I don't see anyone walking their dogs. Ergo: no one in my neighborhood has dogs". 

 

I have determined those things, yes, yet I still get posts saying "Have you thought about going out and meeting people? Sorry you're introverted, have you thought about not wearing rags?" and it does just feel that people aren't reading my messages at all.

Honestly, I didn't know what I expected from posting on here, I guess on some level I hoped to find someone who'd been through this and got out the other side. What I've seen so far, are people who are mostly happy in relationships telling me how easy it is, that all they did was go to a bar. That's great for them, but no help to me. Even the anecdotal stories seem to be along the lines of "Yeah I had a friend who struggled with love, only dated a few times, then he met 'the one' and got married late, at 29." I've literally yet to read in this thread of anyone who has got to the tender age of 30 and never had a girlfriend, or any interest in that department. That's not me saying I've got it so much harder, but it does make me feel unusual if I cannot find another human being who has gone through this experience to this extent.

[boltnrun]

53 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

I've literally yet to read in this thread of anyone who has got to the tender age of 30 and never had a girlfriend, or any interest in that department. That's not me saying I've got it so much harder,

I guess you didn't read the multiple times I posted about my BIL, who never dated until he was in his early 30s and met his wife when he was about 34. I only posted that story maybe three times in this thread.

[Wiseman2]

57 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

Even the anecdotal stories seem to be along the lines of "Yeah I had a friend who struggled with love, only dated a few times, then he met 'the one' and got married. I've literally yet to read in this thread of anyone who has got to the tender age of 30 and never had a girlfriend

Unfortunately posts like that are usually on incels sites, which I would not advise getting into. 

[waffle]

16 hours ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

. . . women generally have different problems when it comes to dating, that "too much attention" can be as dispiriting as too little. 

It isn't about too much or too little attention, it's about who the attention is coming from.

[waffle]

4 hours ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

I've literally yet to read in this thread of anyone who has got to the tender age of 30 and never had a girlfriend, or any interest in that department. That's not me saying I've got it so much harder, but it does make me feel unusual if I cannot find another human being who has gone through this experience to this extent.

It's actually quite common.  And I suspect it will become even more common as the internet continues to take the place of in-person relationships.

Shoot I can name two people off the top of my head who are my age (50+) who've never even been on a date much less a relationship.  Not nearly as rare as we'd think it might be, but when it's you in that situation I get that it sure does seem that way.

[Mammalyssa]

Well just to throw this out there as a country girl. I find city living to be a cold and lonely experience (I lived in a city for 2 years). People weren't friendly, and looked at me like I was odd if I were friendly. No one made eye contact walking through streets. No one stopped to help someone in need. I cant imagine how hard it would be to find someone compatible to share life with if I stayed in the city. 

Country all the way. 

Probably not related to the OP and tinder but anyway. That's my thoughts.