30 And Never Had A Girlfriend, Too Ugly?

[MysteriousTelephone]

So, this is a weird thing to post, as I really don't know what to do, but it's weighing me down and nobody seems to give any constructive help.

In short, I'm male, 30 years old, 5ft 10, 170lbs, I'm in reasonably athletic shape. I rent in a city, and am fully employed. In my spare time I enjoy a range of hobbies, such as; going to the gym, swing-dancing, photography, meeting friends, going to bars & clubs. I've also joined some social "meet-up" groups designed to help meet new people. All of that is great, I love the things that I do, and I make friends very easily from them. I honestly feel lucky to have curated such a wonderful bunch of people from different walks of life, a healthy mix of male and female, older and younger, married and single. I'm very social, and have no issues with shyness or confidence, or else I would not have made so many good friends from these places. My problem, is that I cannot get a girlfriend, and it's becoming increasingly apparent to me that my looks are the issue.

Look, I know that "nobody's ugly!" and all the Hallmark card stuff, but at this point I cannot put it down to anything else. This is not some random theory I've come up with, I have been told this many times over the years. Honestly, I think I'm somewhere in the range of 'average', don't we all? Sadly, the single women of the world have a different opinion. I have been told many times that I'm ugly, and though I don't believe it, it does seem like the general consensus. Tinder is the obvious yardstick: women are shown a picture of me with no clue as to how what job I have, my confidence levels, my religion, my politics, literally nothing other than "is this person attractive?" and seeing as I've never had a match on there, the answer must be "no". I live in a big city, it is odd to never ever get a match. I take care in the photos I put up, it's not hard. I had a friend try to tell me that it must be something I'm saying wrong, and that he could get me date within a week using online dating. I took him up on his challenge, he could say whatever he wanted, just had to use photos of me. 2 months later with no dates, he gave up.

But of course, online is not the only way to meet people. Like I said, I do a range of activities that are very easy to meet a partner, and many do through these channels. I have known many single women actively looking for a man, but any suggestion I make of us getting to know each other better is quickly brushed aside. I will also get the "I'm not looking for a relationship" line from people, which is betrayed when they show up a few weeks later with an attractive person on their arm. I've even went speed dating, events where single women literally pay money to meet a man; at these events I've had really good times talking to people, felt relaxed, and walked away feeling good about myself. Then the next morning I find that out of 12 women, all of them ticked 'no' for me. Again, I can't see how it could be a confidence issue when I don't feel un-confident.

I'm having a hard time getting people to believe me. My friends certainly don't, as much as they give the cartoonishly supportive line of "something will come along soon, just you wait!", it would be more convincing if they hadn't been saying it since 2012. Thing is, they've all had a completely different lived experience. They're pretty people: they had their first relationships in their teens, then a couple of semi serious ones in their early 20s, then they got married with 2.4 kids and a Labrador. Whereas I'm 30 and never even had a Valentine's Day card. I feel very 'behind' everyone else. They literally do not understand the words I am saying when I tell them that women want nothing to do with me, because they've never had that experience. It makes me sad that as much as I do enjoy my life as it is, I'm getting the impression that... this is it; I will just work during the week, fill my evenings and weekends with hobbies and friends, and that's all my life will be until I die.

Statistically it's unheard of to make it to 30 without having a single relationship, I've never met anyone with that issue. I have had a couple of one-night-stands when I was in my early 20s, but I'm very aware they only happened with copious amounts of alcohol, in the sober light of day each person dropped me very quickly.

I don't know, but seemingly nobody else seems to. I don't know what I hoped to achieve writing this here, but I'm just out of ideas. I'm very sure many will skim-read this and come up with the usual "you just need to believe harder!" or "have you tried meeting new people?", to those who've read the whole thing and believe the words I'm saying, thank you.

[Coily]

Well I've been in a similar boat, a smattering of relationships; but nothing that really stuck for the long long view.

It's easy to say "don't give up" or "Someday you'll meet that special woman." It's also dismissive as heck. So I'll be the first to say don't let the "you have to just wait" lines from your "friends" linger too long on your mind. They don't get the struggle it is finding a good relationship, let alone even a  date. As long as you express that you want to find someone worth investing and growing with to your circles of friends, that is all you can do; and yes sometimes we perpetual singles sound like a broken record to them; maybe someday they'll get the hint.

Now i will say from what you're describing you are doing a lot of the right things in trying to meet an engaging lady. That said, you may need to look into the dating sites you use, change them up and contemplate if the paid dating services are for you.

Also consider if where you are is a good dating market for you. Are the women near by the kind that you generally find attractive, and worth the investment? Moving is a huge risk, just to get a date; but it's something to study upon.

I wish I could give you some trick to try that will suddenly land you the right woman, sadly that's not the case. I will say hang in there and change up your dating habits, maybe your wardrobe, and if you have a good female friend have her take some pictures for your dating profile.

[Kwothe28]

44 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

Statistically it's unheard of to make it to 30 without having a single relationship, I've never met anyone with that issue.

Not really. I got a friend, he met his first and only girlfriend, now wife, at 32. Wedding was this year. And he is not even "ugly". Bit overweight but that is about it. He even has a band where he is a lead singer. So yeah, plenty of opportunity to meet and talk to people and he really, really tried. It just never happened to him before 32. He had few ONS but that was about it. Until he met his future wife. Funny thing is she was a bit drunk and rude to him. But she contacted him next day and apologized. That is how they started talking. After that, they went on a date and got together.

Anyway, the thing is, you should never lose hope. Yes, if you are not good looking, especially if you are a man, your chances are very low. That doesnt mean that they are non- existant. You go to gym so you are in shape, you got friends and hobbies, you are social and not afraid to approach, so you are doing what you can. Dont lose hope and just continue doing what you can to meet single ladies.

Also, I am sorry, but yes, there are maybe a number of things that you could be doing wrong. First is over-relience on apps like Tinder that are very "look-oriented". You are not an average girl that can get away with that. You are an average guy. On an app where men are higher in numbers and where 80% of women go for a 20% of men. You have to be realistic that matches(if you get them at all) would be a few and far in between. Its not really something where you would want to be to meet girls. It would just lower your self- confidence more.

But you also do some other things to meet people. So, you should maybe work on a presentation. Clothes come to mind, for example. As well as how you present yourself verbally. For example, are you mentioning stuff about yourself when you meet women? Sometimes its like sales in marketing, you have to "sell yourself" to other person. Mention some of the hobbies you have for example. Or just ask about theirs? Women sometimes love to talk about themselves so it can lead to interesting conversations. Also, I am sorry, but since you havent had a girlfriend you are maybe coming on to them as "desperate". Women can smell that a kilometers away. So, you need to work on that maybe.

Also, you havent mentioned what are you going for when it comes to women? You need to have at least some standards to uphold them. In your case they are maybe not that high(and they shouldnt be at least when it comes to looks, you need to know that) as you havent had a relationship, but they need to be there. Its not about having a relationship. Its about knowing what you can offer out there and finding a person to correspond that. 

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

But you also do some other things to meet people. So, you should maybe work on a presentation. Clothes come to mind, for example. As well as how you present yourself verbally.

Yes -I dated men seriously who were not objectively attractive.  I was attractive/cute/pretty/fit but no model/glamor girl.  (I say was -to be honest at 56 despite being slim/fit and I guess still cute I haven't been feeling that attractive especially during this pandemic -my husband finds me attractive and he's cute/handsome and was NOT anywhere near model looks plus short which I preferred actually).

And yes invest in making the most of your looks - good haircut, flattering well-fitting clothing, good hygiene.

How is your body language and how is the energy and vibes you give off. Do you walk tall with good posture and make appropriate eye contact with people? I met over 100 men through dating sites, dated many other men and body language/vibes/energy/voice tone and quality -all so very important.  I declined dates with objectively gorgeous looking men and had sparks with objectively unattractive men who I was attracted to -they were kind, intelligent, well-spoken, charming, engaging and "sparkled".  Do you sparkle? 

Please stop with the labrador and 2.4 kids.  My husband and I married and became parents at age 42.  One child, no pets.  Started dating again late 30s, were engaged in the past early 30s and broke up for several years.  I took the Long Way Around (great song by the Chicks formerly known as Dixie Chicks). 

Like I said my husband is short and had a couple of serious relationships, dated quite a few women before we reconnected and got married.  He also was so very shy/awkward in his 20s-early 30s.  But he always gave off positive energy and always was a person of character and integrity (as were my late in-laws). Even yesterday I heard him speaking with our friend we hired to do IT work for us and I mean he is just so personable and pleasant to deal with with everyone - not chatty at all just pleasant, kind, articulate, amazing voice (he could do voice overs!), genuine. 

People like being around him and he is not the life of the party by any means (I am the extrovert in our world lol).  He's also not "too nice" and has had to endure over his life ridiculous mean comments about his height and yet he is still a laid back, positive person in general. 

So much of this is a choice.  What choices are you going to make?

[smackie9]

We can't tell you what the issue is but those around you can. There must be a few females in your circle that could help you out. They know you better than a bunch of strangers on the net. 

You could also hire a dating coach. They are pretty honest, and will give you the skills to get those dates. 

[MysteriousTelephone]

13 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

Also, I am sorry, but yes, there are maybe a number of things that you could be doing wrong. First is over-relience on apps like Tinder that are very "look-oriented". You are not an average girl that can get away with that. You are an average guy. On an app where men are higher in numbers and where 80% of women go for a 20% of men. You have to be realistic that matches(if you get them at all) would be a few and far in between. Its not really something where you would want to be to meet girls. It would just lower your self- confidence more.

But you also do some other things to meet people. So, you should maybe work on a presentation. Clothes come to mind, for example. As well as how you present yourself verbally. For example, are you mentioning stuff about yourself when you meet women? Sometimes its like sales in marketing, you have to "sell yourself" to other person. Mention some of the hobbies you have for example. Or just ask about theirs? Women sometimes love to talk about themselves so it can lead to interesting conversations. Also, I am sorry, but since you havent had a girlfriend you are maybe coming on to them as "desperate". Women can smell that a kilometers away. So, you need to work on that maybe.

Also, you havent mentioned what are you going for when it comes to women? You need to have at least some standards to uphold them. In your case they are maybe not that high(and they shouldnt be at least when it comes to looks, you need to know that) as you havent had a relationship, but they need to be there. Its not about having a relationship. Its about knowing what you can offer out there and finding a person to correspond that. 

Define "over-reliance"? As I said, the majority of my activities are in the physical world, though I have also used dating apps, particularly the one most commonly used by my age range, casting the widest possible net. It's really not that uncommon, many of my friends, who are fairly normal looking guys, found their current partners via online dating. Even if it was sifting through matches, they eventually got there. Now picture zero matches, ever, and calling yourself 'average'. If so, what is 'average'?

Sure, I'm a fairly positive and upbeat person, I love to talk about my hobbies, as well as ask people about theirs. As I said, I make friends really easily, so I can't be that horrible at conversation. I get compliments on my clothes, I do my best to dress to accentuate what I have and hide what I don't.

As for what I want? Well I guess I never got that far, that's a bit like asking a starving man what he's picked from the menu! Really, I just want a normal relationship. Realistically I'm not expecting my first relationship to be my last one; most people get those out of the way at about 16, but The Lord in his infinite wisdom decided I should be into my thirties.

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

How is your body language and how is the energy and vibes you give off. Do you walk tall with good posture and make appropriate eye contact with people? I met over 100 men through dating sites, dated many other men and body language/vibes/energy/voice tone and quality -all so very important.  I declined dates with objectively gorgeous looking men and had sparks with objectively unattractive men who I was attracted to -they were kind, intelligent, well-spoken, charming, engaging and "sparkled".  Do you sparkle? 

Please stop with the labrador and 2.4 kids.  My husband and I married and became parents at age 42.  One child, no pets.  Started dating again late 30s, were engaged in the past early 30s and broke up for several years.  I took the Long Way Around (great song by the Chicks formerly known as Dixie Chicks). 

Like I said my husband is short and had a couple of serious relationships, dated quite a few women before we reconnected and got married.  He also was so very shy/awkward in his 20s-early 30s.  But he always gave off positive energy and always was a person of character and integrity (as were my late in-laws). Even yesterday I heard him speaking with our friend we hired to do IT work for us and I mean he is just so personable and pleasant to deal with with everyone - not chatty at all just pleasant, kind, articulate, amazing voice (he could do voice overs!), genuine. 

People like being around him and he is not the life of the party by any means (I am the extrovert in our world lol).  He's also not "too nice" and has had to endure over his life ridiculous mean comments about his height and yet he is still a laid back, positive person in general. 

So much of this is a choice.  What choices are you going to make?

Like I said, I make good friends wherever I go, so I figure my energy can't be that terrible. Often I'll be doing something I enjoy doing and am good at, so it's not really a problem. I get told I'm well spoken, though I have yet to be told I "sparkle".

That's great, and I'm really glad it's worked out for you guys. And yes, my friends did all adopt the "2.4 kids and a dog" lifestyle. I'm not in any way saying that nobody has ever found happiness unless they're physically perfect, or that there aren't other qualities, I'm stating my lived experience, which suggests that if most other things are okay, it must be looks.

2 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

We can't tell you what the issue is but those around you can. There must be a few females in your circle that could help you out. They know you better than a bunch of strangers on the net. 

They mean well, but I believe in their efforts to be kind they're not being truthful. Telling me how 'amazing' I am, to preserve my feelings, really gives me nothing to work on in order to get out of this incredible rut.

[smackie9]

26 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

Define "over-reliance"? As I said, the majority of my activities are in the physical world, though I have also used dating apps, particularly the one most commonly used by my age range, casting the widest possible net. It's really not that uncommon, many of my friends, who are fairly normal looking guys, found their current partners via online dating. Even if it was sifting through matches, they eventually got there. Now picture zero matches, ever, and calling yourself 'average'. If so, what is 'average'?

Sure, I'm a fairly positive and upbeat person, I love to talk about my hobbies, as well as ask people about theirs. As I said, I make friends really easily, so I can't be that horrible at conversation. I get compliments on my clothes, I do my best to dress to accentuate what I have and hide what I don't.

As for what I want? Well I guess I never got that far, that's a bit like asking a starving man what he's picked from the menu! Really, I just want a normal relationship. Realistically I'm not expecting my first relationship to be my last one; most people get those out of the way at about 16, but The Lord in his infinite wisdom decided I should be into my thirties.

Like I said, I make good friends wherever I go, so I figure my energy can't be that terrible. Often I'll be doing something I enjoy doing and am good at, so it's not really a problem. I get told I'm well spoken, though I have yet to be told I "sparkle".

That's great, and I'm really glad it's worked out for you guys. And yes, my friends did all adopt the "2.4 kids and a dog" lifestyle. I'm not in any way saying that nobody has ever found happiness unless they're physically perfect, or that there aren't other qualities, I'm stating my lived experience, which suggests that if most other things are okay, it must be looks.

They mean well, but I believe in their efforts to be kind they're not being truthful. Telling me how 'amazing' I am, to preserve my feelings, really gives me nothing to work on in order to get out of this incredible rut.

I added to see a dating coach where you will receive blunt honesty. 

[boltnrun]

My best friend is literally model beautiful, intelligent, sweet and funny and cheerful and the poor woman can't get a date. She was married before but her husband chose to have one affair after another. Imagine how that made her feel...her own husband didn't want her! And before she met him she went out with a few men but for the life of her she could not find a boyfriend. And here was me, nothing to write home about looks-wise and I was married when I was barely old enough to buy a beer and became a mother in my early 20s. I'll never forget the look on her face when she came to see me in the hospital after I'd had my son. She had a mixture of happiness for me and envy with some guilt thrown in for envying her best friend! 

I don't know why she always struggled to find relationships and why she still does. The only thing I can think of is she did tend to come across as too eager. She hoped every date would be her new boyfriend. She wasn't being picky. She married her husband because he insisted he wanted to marry her even though there were red flags. She wanted marriage and babies so she overlooked things she maybe shouldn't have. 

But she's a lovely, lovely person. I wish she would find the relationship she's been looking for. And I'm not much help because I haven't been on a date in about seven years. Yikes.

I wish I had better advice for you. You seem like a catch and some lucky woman will benefit from meeting you. I hope you do find the right woman for you because it seems you are a great guy.

[tattoobunnie]

16 hours ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

Tinder is the obvious yardstick

Tinder is BS.  Hotness comes from within.  I guarantee you just need the right opening.  Work with a professional matchmaker.  Have friends and family set you up.  It's a numbers game, really.  My buddy who is built like an Adonis and looked like one too would have women THROW themselves at him, and he never ever got the giant hint they were giving him.  I think because you've been single for forever, you have ZERO game.  Trust me, you need the wing man, the lady friends who adore you and have the right person for you.  You need professional help, and not like there's something wrong with you...you need someone to teach you how to date.  I guarantee under you have a 2 ft hump and have half your face gone and limp because half your body can't move, there is someone out there for you and I don't mean slim pickings.  

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

And here was me, nothing to write home about looks-wise and I was married when I was barely old enough to buy a beer and became a mother in my early 20s.

I'm not quoting this because of how Bolt describes her looks but because it reminded me of something Bolt wrote on a somewhat similar thread that I think could help the OP so I hope it's ok to mention it.  She wrote -paraphrasing -that she was always into sports and other "male" activities and that this helped her meet guys and be around guys in a natural way (meaning meeting in a typical environment with the added bonus of having this sort of thing in common).  (This was not me at all -and I bet I too would have found it easier had I been into these sorts of activities)

So I know you wrote OP that you are social, good at conversation, people like you -that is great - but are you where the women are? I mean not necessarily "feminine" activities but are you in environments where single women are likely to be? 

[MysteriousTelephone]

1 hour ago, smackie9 said:

I added to see a dating coach where you will receive blunt honesty. 

I'm not against the idea, but I am skeptical. For example, it is an open ended practice, much like therapy. In that: the money is in the comeback. There's no profit in 'fixing' me in one session, they would want me to pay weekly, indefinitely. While I'm sure there are very helpful coaches out there, that sort of business model is certainly open to abuse.

Also, having searched the services typically provided by dating/relationship coaches, they are very geared towards people who have difficulties reading social cues or talking to the opposite sex, which I don't feel applies to me. Another aspect is helping with communication in online dating, which definitely would not apply here, as people very literally see a picture of me and say 'no', leaving me unable to message.

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

My best friend is literally model beautiful, intelligent, sweet and funny and cheerful and the poor woman can't get a date. She was married before but her husband chose to have one affair after another. Imagine how that made her feel...her own husband didn't want her! And before she met him she went out with a few men but for the life of her she could not find a boyfriend. And here was me, nothing to write home about looks-wise and I was married when I was barely old enough to buy a beer and became a mother in my early 20s. I'll never forget the look on her face when she came to see me in the hospital after I'd had my son. She had a mixture of happiness for me and envy with some guilt thrown in for envying her best friend! 

I don't know why she always struggled to find relationships and why she still does. The only thing I can think of is she did tend to come across as too eager. She hoped every date would be her new boyfriend. She wasn't being picky. She married her husband because he insisted he wanted to marry her even though there were red flags. She wanted marriage and babies so she overlooked things she maybe shouldn't have. 

But she's a lovely, lovely person. I wish she would find the relationship she's been looking for. And I'm not much help because I haven't been on a date in about seven years. Yikes.

I wish I had better advice for you. You seem like a catch and some lucky woman will benefit from meeting you. I hope you do find the right woman for you because it seems you are a great guy.

I mean, sheesh, you've got a friend who's kind, intelligent, funny, beautiful AND not that picky? I'm booking my plane tickets!

For real though, if it's rare for a man to be unwillingly single into his 30s, your friend's situation sounds even more bizarre. From my perspective, if we get on and she's keen, what's the problem?

38 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

Tinder is BS.  Hotness comes from within.  I guarantee you just need the right opening.  Work with a professional matchmaker.  Have friends and family set you up.  It's a numbers game, really.  My buddy who is built like an Adonis and looked like one too would have women THROW themselves at him, and he never ever got the giant hint they were giving him.  I think because you've been single for forever, you have ZERO game.  Trust me, you need the wing man, the lady friends who adore you and have the right person for you.  You need professional help, and not like there's something wrong with you...you need someone to teach you how to date.  I guarantee under you have a 2 ft hump and have half your face gone and limp because half your body can't move, there is someone out there for you and I don't mean slim pickings.  

I mean, you say that, didn't John Merrick get married in his 20s? When The Elephant Man verifiably was more successful with women than you, you've got to sit yourself down and ask yourself some questions.

19 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I'm not quoting this because of how Bolt describes her looks but because it reminded me of something Bolt wrote on a somewhat similar thread that I think could help the OP so I hope it's ok to mention it.  She wrote -paraphrasing -that she was always into sports and other "male" activities and that this helped her meet guys and be around guys in a natural way (meaning meeting in a typical environment with the added bonus of having this sort of thing in common).  (This was not me at all -and I bet I too would have found it easier had I been into these sorts of activities)

So I know you wrote OP that you are social, good at conversation, people like you -that is great - but are you where the women are? I mean not necessarily "feminine" activities but are you in environments where single women are likely to be? 

My jobs have usually been pretty male dominated, but that said, every male I have worked with has been with a partner. And these are bricklayers: their only hobbies are football and casual racism, yet somehow they found wives.

As for my hobbies, they are pretty good ways to find and bond with new people. Swing dancing in particular, has a fairly young demographic, in which the women tend to outnumber the men. I've seen just about every eligible male get snapped up very quickly, and there are still a lot of young single women out looking for a guy. When I've asked through a friend to see how these people felt about me, just in general, the response was "he's lovely, but eww".

Other than that, the meet-up groups, as I mentioned, are very geared towards meeting new people. It's a really nice environment because everyone is there for the same reason, you can literally go up to anyone and just start a conversation. I've seen quite a few couples get together from that group.

[tattoobunnie]

2 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

I mean, you say that, didn't John Merrick get married in his 20s? When The Elephant Man verifiably was more successful with women than you, you've got to sit yourself down and ask yourself some questions.

I didn't get married till my 30's...what are you trying to say? 🤣

I had a buddy ask a woman, "what's wrong? You look tired," as a way to break the ice.  You never ever ask a woman that...sometimes, they just always look like that.

Some people always think they are suave because they are social and have friends.  You will be surprised that the same combo does not apply to dating success. 

New tactics, different results.

[Batya33]

I like the activities you are doing -have you or would you consider volunteering backstage for a community theater? 

I do not think this is about your physical features.  

[boltnrun]

26 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

I mean, sheesh, you've got a friend who's kind, intelligent, funny, beautiful AND not that picky? I'm booking my plane tickets!

For real though, if it's rare for a man to be unwillingly single into his 30s, your friend's situation sounds even more bizarre. From my perspective, if we get on and she's keen, what's the problem?

Well, she's quite a bit out of your age range. We're in our mid 50s. Although you'd never know it if you saw a pic of her or met her in person.

"Not that picky" isn't a positive, BTW. It's part of why she hasn't found the right relationship. But currently she just isn't finding anyone. It's puzzling. 

My brother is a great guy but his two wives ended up being disasters. But his problem is he thinks with his, um, nether regions. 😆

I agree with going to activities that attract single women. Don't pretend to be interested in something you're truly not, but what's wrong with learning how to cook a gourmet meal or a dessert?

[smackie9]

OK so they say ewwww....what is eww pertaining to? 

[DarkCh0c0]

2 hours ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

As for what I want? Well I guess I never got that far, that's a bit like asking a starving man what he's picked from the menu! Really, I just want a normal relationship.

When you don't have standards or expectations regarding what you want in a relationship, you can attract all sorts of people or none at all.

I suggest you take a pen and paper and list down negotiables and non-negotiables in a partner. List down your deal breakers as well. Revisit these as you date. If you go for ANY relationship, you will brush over red flags and stay out of desperation. It could end in a hot mess.

I second what @smackie9said about getting a few consultations with a dating coach or what @Batya33 mentioned about hanging out in events where women usually are.

[DarkCh0c0]

How often do you approach women and what's your approach?

[Dean Gladwyn]

You're clearly able to stay optimistic and I get a feeling by reading your post you are an attractive person. I can understand the frustration you must feel when you reach most social standards but seem to be failing on the looks side of things, fortunately, it only seems that way, I am not denying your reality in any way as I have seen evidence of looks playing a part in the dating game, but if we go deeper into this subject there is a big difference between attractive and attraction, the ability to spark attraction in a woman is caused by behaviour rather then the way a male face is shaped, therefore if you can learn how to harness your qualities and display them, this is what will cause a woman to choose you as a partner

[Coily]

Been pondering this some more, for my benefit as well.

One thing that popped out is do you know how to make a fun date? How do you engage with a potential girlfriend? Either with a dating coach or a trust worthy and honest female friend, lay out a conceptual first date; see if you are hitting some of the right marks; or are you doing something off putting.

Being in that single rut this long, really puts you on the back foot with dating cues that others swiftly pick up on. It is something very very difficult for those not in that position to get. That is something you can seek advice on.

The great draw back with going for age range dating apps is that you may not be moving in the OLD circles where you can find success. Also it may be time to change your parameters a little more outside of your normal standard. Say you only look for 5'6" women, but there could be a 5'8" lady who will be fascinated by you.

Also consider just going on dates to go on dates; not to find the love of your life. Learn some social graces from dates that you aren't as interested in long term. This lets you look beyond women you are really going to be invested in.

I wish you the best, that would mean less competition for me.

 

[DarkCh0c0]

1 hour ago, tattoobunnie said:

I had a buddy ask a woman, "what's wrong? You look tired," as a way to break the ice.  You never ever ask a woman that...sometimes, they just always look like that

I had the same thing happen to me on a first (and last) date! Definitely a no-go.

[Kwothe28]

3 hours ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

Define "over-reliance"? As I said, the majority of my activities are in the physical world, though I have also used dating apps, particularly the one most commonly used by my age range, casting the widest possible net. It's really not that uncommon, many of my friends, who are fairly normal looking guys, found their current partners via online dating. Even if it was sifting through matches, they eventually got there. Now picture zero matches, ever, and calling yourself 'average'. If so, what is 'average'?

Sure, I'm a fairly positive and upbeat person, I love to talk about my hobbies, as well as ask people about theirs. As I said, I make friends really easily, so I can't be that horrible at conversation. I get compliments on my clothes, I do my best to dress to accentuate what I have and hide what I don't.

As for what I want? Well I guess I never got that far, that's a bit like asking a starving man what he's picked from the menu! Really, I just want a normal relationship. Realistically I'm not expecting my first relationship to be my last one; most people get those out of the way at about 16, but The Lord in his infinite wisdom decided I should be into my thirties.

"Over-relience" as in "Tinder isnt a good yardstick whether somebody is ugly or not". As Ive said, you have to be top 20% of guys in terms of look to even get decent ammount of matches. Average guy probably wont go very far there and its just lowering your self-esteem. 

Case in point: You have no standards. I am pretty sure that if you lower standards enough you(or anyone else)  could find at least some relationship. But that shouldnt be your goal. Your goal should be to find somebody that you could be happy with. Having your standards so low would just take you in "desperation route". Which, again, any decent woman could smell a mile away. And what you would get is equally desperate women. Where neither of you would probably be happy and both would just settle. That is never good. So at least have some(like for example age, education, kids etc) and uphold them. Again, you cant be desperate and accept any woman into your life. Not a good look and maybe why you have no success there.

[boltnrun]

12 minutes ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

I had the same thing happen to me on a first (and last) date! Definitely a no-go.

A guy I worked with who allegedly wanted to date me (according to coworkers) asked me what I was buying my mom for Mother's Day. I explained that my mom had passed away four years earlier. He said "Oh, you're so lucky! You won't have to buy her anything!" Are you kidding me?

Yeah, I never went out with him.

Anyway, I relate that story not because I think you'd ever say something so foolishly insensitive, but to point out that good conversation skills are important. 

I say forget those shallow "swiping" sites that focus solely on physical appearance. Those seem to be soul destroying. 

[DarkCh0c0]

49 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

He said "Oh, you're so lucky! You won't have to buy her anything!"

What the... 😤

I feel you ✊ 

Conversation skills are so important indeed!

[MysteriousTelephone]

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I like the activities you are doing -have you or would you consider volunteering backstage for a community theater? 

I do not think this is about your physical features.  

I mean, between work, the gym, dancing, meet-ups, seeing friends, and having time to myself, I really don't think I would be able to throw volunteering on top of that. Something would have to give, and frankly I love my hobbies too much to begin volunteering in theatre in hopes of attracting a mate.

5 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Well, she's quite a bit out of your age range. We're in our mid 50s. Although you'd never know it if you saw a pic of her or met her in person.

"Not that picky" isn't a positive, BTW. It's part of why she hasn't found the right relationship. But currently she just isn't finding anyone. It's puzzling. 

My brother is a great guy but his two wives ended up being disasters. But his problem is he thinks with his, um, nether regions. 😆

I agree with going to activities that attract single women. Don't pretend to be interested in something you're truly not, but what's wrong with learning how to cook a gourmet meal or a dessert?

I mean, Cameron Diaz is 50, so there's no ceiling on this.

I like "not that picky", picky people tend to pick... other people!

4 hours ago, smackie9 said:

OK so they say ewwww....what is eww pertaining to? 

Me, physically. That's only a couple of people. Others have made better window dressing of letting me down, but the end result is the same.

4 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

When you don't have standards or expectations regarding what you want in a relationship, you can attract all sorts of people or none at all.

I suggest you take a pen and paper and list down negotiables and non-negotiables in a partner. List down your deal breakers as well. Revisit these as you date. If you go for ANY relationship, you will brush over red flags and stay out of desperation. It could end in a hot mess.

I second what @smackie9said about getting a few consultations with a dating coach or what @Batya33 mentioned about hanging out in events where women usually are.

I think I'm fairly open minded, I really can't think of "non-negotiables" as such: I'd prefer a partner without children, purely because I'd rather not learn how to have a girlfriend and how to be a parent at the same time. Though as I get older I realise the likelihood of that gets smaller. As I said, and repeatedly mention, I really do go to plenty of events full of single women looking to have fun and find a partner. My issue is not a lack of opportunity, it is that they want nothing to do with me romantically.

3 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

"Over-relience" as in "Tinder isnt a good yardstick whether somebody is ugly or not". As Ive said, you have to be top 20% of guys in terms of look to even get decent ammount of matches. Average guy probably wont go very far there and its just lowering your self-esteem. 

Case in point: You have no standards. I am pretty sure that if you lower standards enough you(or anyone else)  could find at least some relationship. But that shouldnt be your goal. Your goal should be to find somebody that you could be happy with. Having your standards so low would just take you in "desperation route". Which, again, any decent woman could smell a mile away. And what you would get is equally desperate women. Where neither of you would probably be happy and both would just settle. That is never good. So at least have some(like for example age, education, kids etc) and uphold them. Again, you cant be desperate and accept any woman into your life. Not a good look and maybe why you have no success there.

From experience, I think you're pulling those numbers out of thin air. Pretty much my entire generation uses Tinder or a variant of, and it's not just the elite 20% of men that are getting matches. The majority of my male friends have either found their current partner, or have had relationships in the past, that stemmed from being swiped on Tinder. I assure you, normal people do get matches, I'm not talking loads, but over time it happens. Except for me, where it does not happen, because I'm not believing hard enough, or something.

Funny story, I was relaying my story to a male friend years ago: he's a handsome dude, happily married, still gets hit on fairly regularly. He didn't believe me at all, and was spouting off about how "it doesn't matter how you look, you must be saying the wrong things" etc. I did explain to him the model of most dating apps mean you can't say anything unless they 'like' you, but he was determined to prove me wrong. So I made him a deal: he could set up an account for me, use any photos of me he liked, say whatever he liked, and see what happens. He was confident he'd have a date set up within a week. 2 months later he comes back to me and admits it's actually pretty damn hard.

I mean, I've literally not mentioned my standards at all in this, high or low. I'm pretty open minded, obviously never having had a relationship previously I'd like to keep things as simple as possible, but I've never looked for a specific 'type' of person. I really don't care who they vote for, what god they pray to, how much money they make. My age, plus or minus 7 years, but even that's a rough guess and not a hard rule.

[Batya33]

11 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

I mean, between work, the gym, dancing, meet-ups, seeing friends, and having time to myself, I really don't think I would be able to throw volunteering on top of that. Something would have to give, and frankly I love my hobbies too much to begin volunteering in theatre in hopes of attracting a mate.

Your choice.  I wanted marriage and a husband so I did all of what you did plus volunteering and a book club. I worked crazy hours from 1994-2009 - long, plus unpredictable and fairly regular business travel.

Sometimes it felt like a part time job but it was worth it given my goals of marriage and family. More than worth it.

You're certainly entitled to prioritize your hobbies over branching out more to meet people.  Dancing is a great way to meet people of course.  Depends on what your hobbies are as far as whether they increase your chances of meeting single available people or people who would be inclined to introduce you to suitable people. I've been setting people up on dates for about 40 years now and an hour ago offered to do this again.  Many returned the favor when I was single.  

Also is your hygiene ok - fresh breath, clean, put together etc?  I don't mean long hair/tattoos/piercings stuff -I mean that was never for me but certainly there are women who like that look and even prefer it - just -basic hygiene, good posture, carry yourself with confidence, etc.