Are we being unfair with our children regarding the pandemic?

[poorlittlefish]

21 hours ago, DesignerPrize said:

I know my children are not toddlers. But if someone is walking by and they're unaware, we still have to alert them. It's just a simple, "Hey! Mask up..." and they do so.

No, you don't have to alert them. You can take responsibility for your own behaviour and beliefs, but you have no right to force them on others. Most people are living their lives as normally as possible. You are spoiling your own lives and those of your children by keeping up such obsessive measures. 

[DesignerPrize]

1 hour ago, poorlittlefish said:

No, you don't have to alert them. 

This is in regards to us taking walks as a family. If a jogger is coming by, and say our children are too busy laughing or talking to see them coming, we alert them and tell our children to mask up. Jogger passes, then mask down. If they catch it, we do. We must all keep safe.

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, DesignerPrize said:

It will still require us to not visit her or her us in-person for a while, though. 

That would be the best thing. She needs to get away from this insanity to experience normal life.

A mask doesn't protect anyone from the mental health issues you two have or are projecting onto your adult children with this OCD-like lack of seeing the forest for the trees.

Many of your practices have zero basis in science. They're more driven by fears anxiety and rituals. Similar to washing your hands 300 times a day when they're already clean.

Yes let her go. Some distance from you two would benefit her mental health significantly. If she wants, she can text you. 

You're trying to create a folie à deux, but she is wisely resistant.

 

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, DesignerPrize said:

We will try to accelerate our daughter's move, then.

It will still require us to not visit her or her us in-person for a while, though. If she does attend in-person events, especially maskless, that is putting us at risk, including her brother, who will only bring that back to us. 

That's fine then do facetime.  Many families with immunocompromised situations have done that.  By the way - I would have loved to meet the right person in my 20s instead of my late 30s and my parents would never ever have tried to hamper my efforts to be out there socializing and meeting quality people with your sort of atittude "well it was good enough for me."  You know what -it was good enough for me and my husband to have no internet, cell phones or even voicemail, and no cable - so? That means we deprive our children of opportunities because "it was good enough for us?"

Again it's not set in stone but your extreme attitude and your dismissive attitude about how she can meet the right person in her 30s etc is really concerning -you don't want to risk your health.  But you are potentially harming hers and her life goals.  I'm glad you're coming around to a compromise.

[Batya33]

A jogger jogging by is not going to pass infection that briefly.  Even the variant.  Much more likely that you shouting to alert them will raise their blood pressure or distract them into tripping or not being alert to their other surroundings.

As far as your son double masking - you don't know how often he pulls it down -not even because it's intentional etc - I was on a plane -8 hours -where a woman was wearing a mask and kept pulling it down to cough.  One row away from me.  

[Seraphim]

According to science you need to be close to someone or in an enclosed space with them for at least 15 mins to catch it from them. They also have no transmission from surfaces unlike other bacterias. 
 

Colds are also a class of Covid viruses. My grandfather died of flu almost 9 years ago. We all got flu. 
 

Wash our hands, live well with good food and exercise, look after our health and get vaccinated and we should do fine . 

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, Seraphim said:

According to science you need to be close to someone or in an enclosed space with them for at least 15 mins to catch it from them. They also have no transmission from surfaces unlike other bacterias. 
 

Colds are also a class of Covid viruses. My grandfather died of flu almost 9 years ago. We all got flu. 
 

Wash our hands, live well with good food and exercise, look after our health and get vaccinated and we should do fine . 

I think with the variants it's faster than 15 but not outdoors and not with a jogger passing by.  Even when my city was in lockdown and we had to wear masks outdoors it was only if in a large crowded space outdoors and exercise was excluded. 

So I was on my typical outdoor jogging path every morning - I had a mask with me, which I pulled up in case there was -rarely- a crowded situation and didn't care that others wore masks the entire time. I knew I could not exercise with a mask over my nose and mouth for that long, stayed far away from people and went early morning but no I did not care if I whizzed by someone who wasn't wearing a mask because even then I knew it took longer especially outdoors.

OP I think you are ignoring the current science and protocols because of some sort of like PTSD type issue- meaning after that huge scary time you're still in that huge scary time pre-vaccine, etc.  I'm not at all trying to diagnose you but somehow you are more comfortable living in the past.  That's not fair to your kids.

[Lambert]

Have you looked into recent CDC and WHO guidance?

As recently as Aug 15, 2022 the CDC rolled back the guidelines, noting "an acknowledgement that we should not be allowing covid 19 to completely disrupt society" (this is from John Hopkins University website)

Do you know the level of cases in your area?  Do you know the number of cases that have lead to hospitalization?  Death?

It sounds to me, based on what's happening in my area and the CDC guidance, yes. Yes, you are being unfair with your adult children. 

[Seraphim]

In my area there are 559 current recorded cases for a population of 540,000 which is flung over a large area ( a few hundred KM area our health unit boundaries) So low risk at this point. That may change with school starting next week. My military community was hit hard over last Christmas and it hit MANY families on base, many. Just last week our mask mandate was revoked on base. You had to wear a mask in any building on base that was not your own home. Outside you were free to do as you please and our province repealed the masking laws this past Spring. 
 

I also moved last year during the height of pandemic . We were also fine. 
 

At the beginning too I was terrified and we have a long ongoing thread on here about people’s ongoing struggles. 

 

[indea08]

6 hours ago, DesignerPrize said:

This is in regards to us taking walks as a family. If a jogger is coming by, and say our children are too busy laughing or talking to see them coming, we alert them and tell our children to mask up. Jogger passes, then mask down. If they catch it, we do. We must all keep safe.

You seem he||-bent that your way is the right way.

Will you consider that your way is YOUR way and others have to have THEIR OWN way? 

For example: I’m openly unvaccinated against covid. I live in a very, very conservative small town where MANY people are not vaccinated. I haven’t seen anyone wear a mask here for probably at least a year. Everyone I know is living a normal, pre-Covid life. Your level of restriction would be absolutely insane to most anyone around here. I would be so depressed I can’t even imagine. But that doesn’t mean you’re wrong. But it also doesn’t mean we’re wrong.

You have to let your daughter be who she wants to be, have faith, and just do your best.

 

ETA: In your post above that I quoted….reading that, you would think you were talking about 5 year olds. To you, they will always be your children…but they’re not children. In their minds, they feel and think like adults, they have their own ideas and opinions separate from yours. They are your adult children. They don’t need to be parented or raised anymore. You have to let go and let God.

[boltnrun]

You obviously absolutely refuse to educate yourselves on the current recommendations by infectious disease experts and instead are clinging to misconceptions from 2 1/2 years ago. Why you insist on refusing to educate yourselves, I can't understand.

You ignore all of us who recommend you check the current guidelines. Why is that?

Are you two infectious diseases experts with advanced degrees in a specialty that makes you more qualified and knowledgeable than lifelong professionals such as Dr. Fauci?

You're going to lose your daughter over your stubborn refusal to get educated on the current recommendations. That's just sad.

[Tinydance]

2 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

You obviously absolutely refuse to educate yourselves on the current recommendations by infectious disease experts and instead are clinging to misconceptions from 2 1/2 years ago. Why you insist on refusing to educate yourselves, I can't understand.

You ignore all of us who recommend you check the current guidelines. Why is that?

Are you two infectious diseases experts with advanced degrees in a specialty that makes you more qualified and knowledgeable than lifelong professionals such as Dr. Fauci?

You're going to lose your daughter over your stubborn refusal to get educated on the current recommendations. That's just sad.

Also I'm actually like 99.9% sure that there were never any recommendations anywhere to wear two masks lol

[boltnrun]

39 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Also I'm actually like 99.9% sure that there were never any recommendations anywhere to wear two masks lol

Here in the US at one time that was recommended. I think that might have been during one of the really bad holiday spikes where the hospitals and healthcare workers were getting overwhelmed again. At one time they even recommended wearing safety glasses.

But those recommendations have been superceded by more updated and accurate recommendations. Scientists and doctors know more about the virus and how it's transmitted than they did in March and April 2020. Back then it was all about hand sanitizer and surfaces and temperature checks, whereas now we know it's direct person to person transmission that's most prevalent. So washing your cans of soup is really a waste of time and effort.

Also, double masking protects OTHERS from YOU. So yelling to pull up her mask when a jogger runs past is nice for the jogger you're protecting but it doesn't do a thing to protect you. If you're that frightened cross the street or something! But don't burden your daughter with your fears and conspiracy theories.

You can't have a loving relationship with your fear, anxiety and conspiracy theory beliefs. But you do have one with your daughter. Which one do you prefer to cherish and preserve?

[bluecastle]

10 hours ago, DesignerPrize said:

My daughter has expressed she wants to move out.

Great. 

What are you guys doing to help her with this transition and support her?

She's been very supportive of your needs and way of life these past years, so it seems fair to extend a hand. Maybe that's some money. Maybe it's offering to pay for a therapist for a while, or to attend family therapy together to work through all this. Maybe it's letting her read this thread, so she can see that you're trying to understand the situation, and together you can all talk about what's unspooled here. Maybe it's just telling her that you understand, love her, and have faith this will all work out.

Is any of that happening in these conversations?

This is a hot-button issue, for all of us. What concerns me, putting all the Covid stuff aside, is that I'm not getting the sense that you are worried about your daughter's state of mind right now. If she fell and shattered a bone this afternoon, I'd imagine you'd hop to and find a way to help. She is coming to you right now and describing a shattered spirit, an injury that is in ways more dire. 

[Batya33]

Yes. Accurate and up to date information is power. And essential. You do that with other aspects of your life and health right? You raised kids. So you know that it can feel like a moving target with changing recommendations.  Like safe sleep and car seats and teaching reading, vaccines etc. it does mean you have to try to get the most reliable info. And find reliable sources and reliable people including health care providers. Because constant random googling isn’t helpful.
 

I like to find one or two reputable sites plus my health care providers and a few trusted friends and family who also have scientific or medical knowledge. That way I’m not overwhelmed and take a consistent approach. It’s served us well overall in my family including with Covid. 
good luck. 

[mylolita]

22 hours ago, Seraphim said:

Also do you think the economy will survive with people sitting on their duff at home endlessly ? Nope, it won’t . It is time to get cracking, the world recession is on the way so people need to get working . 

If everyone sat home and never worked because of a form of flu virus, there wouldn’t be any retirement to pay anyone, public hospitals to go too or ambulances or medical workers to treat you. 
 

Seraphim is right - horribly, the economy is more important, or we are all in big big trouble. People thought furlough and government work holidays for a year was cute, staying home. They are taxing us big time now to pay for it. There is no magic money tree. It will cost us massively for decades to come, my own children will still be paying for it when they are older than me. We have to think of the bigger picture and not just about ourselves as individuals sometimes.

 

Everyone who was healthy and young should have kept on working through the pandemic, older or vulnerable, they should have been the ones staying at home, receiving support and benefit, whilst the rest of us kept the whole place afloat and carried them on our youthful, healthy, tax paying shoulders!

Just realised that is another point for a different forum! Apologies. But, we have to think of the bigger picture, and get out of our own heads and our own insecurities and worries.

 

x

[Seraphim]

34 minutes ago, mylolita said:

If everyone sat home and never worked because of a form of flu virus, there wouldn’t be any retirement to pay anyone, public hospitals to go too or ambulances or medical workers to treat you. 
 

Seraphim is right - horribly, the economy is more important, or we are all in big big trouble. People thought furlough and government work holidays for a year was cute, staying home. They are taxing us big time now to pay for it. There is no magic money tree. It will cost us massively for decades to come, my own children will still be paying for it when they are older than me. We have to think of the bigger picture and not just about ourselves as individuals sometimes.

 

Everyone who was healthy and young should have kept on working through the pandemic, older or vulnerable, they should have been the ones staying at home, receiving support and benefit, whilst the rest of us kept the whole place afloat and carried them on our youthful, healthy, tax paying shoulders!

Just realised that is another point for a different forum! Apologies. But, we have to think of the bigger picture, and get out of our own heads and our own insecurities and worries.

 

x

Correct , we will be paying for generations. Time to crack on now . 

[catfeeder]

9 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Also I'm actually like 99.9% sure that there were never any recommendations anywhere to wear two masks lol

Yep, we had that recommendation during the heavy Delta spike as it started converting to Omicron. They saw transmissions multiplying yet did not yet know whether Omicron would be as deadly as Delta,

So this was last year's fashion statement. 

[DesignerPrize]

On 9/2/2022 at 8:01 AM, indea08 said:

In your post above that I quoted….reading that, you would think you were talking about 5 year olds. To you, they will always be your children…but they’re not children.

This is not about them being adults vs being babied. They still live with us in our home right now. This is just a measure we take because if they are exposed, then we are exposed. So, as we take a family walk and my wife and I are walking behind them and they are distracted by conversation, and we hear someone coming up behind us, we tell them to pull up their masks. Let the person gain some distance, and they can pull it back down again. Someone mentioned crossing the street, and we often do. If there are other walkers on our path that we readily see, we will step off the path and turn our heads while they pass so none of us are exposed. 

I understand everyone wants us to lessen our protocols, but we are simply not comfortable doing that right now. And it is not bringing harm to our family, wearing gloves and washing groceries. At their very worst, they are unnecessary. At best, they can be protecting our family. So we will continue.

Come on, of course we love our daughter and tell her every day. As I said, we tell her and our son how much we appreciate they have sacrificed to keep us safe.

And when times comes, we will help her into her apartment of course. We have already told her we will buy her washer and dryer and things of that sort (she refused and said she will do it, but you know how stubborn kids can be to show you they can do something, ha.) Of course we will help her.

Perhaps when she moves out we can do socially distant (no touch) in an outside park with masks if we wish to meet up. Everyone will have to do that, including my son and daughter, because if one is exposed, we all are, sorry. Our daughter mentioned once that when she moves out she will meet our son at his school and have lunch with him sometimes, but for that to happen, she will need to be masked for us to be comfortable with that.

[boltnrun]

You asked if you're being unfair. All of us basically answered yes but you aren't really interested in hearing that, apparently. You have already decided you're right. Were you planning to tell your daughter that internet strangers said you're right or something? 

It's sad, but the best thing is for your daughter to move out so she can join the rest of the world in practicing reasonable safety protocols, not ones based on conspiracy theories and outdated recommendations.

[reinventmyself]

From where I sit, your daughter is an adult and doesn't share the same view as you.  And it's ok.  It doesn't make her wrong, it's only a difference.  We raise our children to think for themselves, right?  Consider this a job well done.

Having said that, it's time for you to assist her to move out and be on her own. Yes, it will be challenging to socialize but you will figure it out.  And it won't be forever.  It's one of the cost/benefit situations.  The cost of keeping her isolated is costing way too much.  The benefit keeps you safe, but how does that benefit her?  I am also puzzled why the son has a different standard.  I can't help but wonder how that message of you trusting the son, yet not the daughter adds to this dilemma.   Merely because she takes her mask off to sing?   I get it, but it's a stretch.  

About the gloves.  I went to the emergency room one night, when covid was at it's highest.  (unrelated)  They wouldn't let anyone in with gloves and listened to the lectures repeatedly how the gloves were a hinderance, collecting all sorts of bacteria and viruses. If your face is masked, you aren't touching your face.  Therefore you are far better of washing your hands.  Just sayin'

[Batya33]

We’ve known for a long time that it’s extremely unlikely if not impossible to get it outdoors particularly from a person just running or walking by briefly. But there is a risk in our world today that someone who is unstable will hear your um paranoid demand and react with confrontation or aggression. Also if you are doing that to them repetitively it’s anxiety and stress provoking especially if they’re just trying to enjoy a darn walk outside. 

[boltnrun]

And again, YOUR mask protects others, not you.  That is clearly stated in the safety recommendations from health agencies. So demanding your daughter pull up her mask when someone walks by is protecting that other person, NOT YOU AND NOT YOUR DAUGHTER.  Sorry to yell, but it seems you're twisting the (old, outdated) safety recommendations to suit your purpose of keeping your daughter on a sort of lockdown.

So, in conclusion, it's good your daughter will be moving out.  It's sad, but it's good so she can get out from under your outdated and ineffective safety protocols and start living (safely!) again.  

[waffle]

10 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

And again, YOUR mask protects others, not you. 

I have literally never heard this.  Do you have any links?

If I wear a mask and I'm COVID-negative (which I am), then who is being protected and what are they being protected from??? 

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, waffle said:

I have literally never heard this.  Do you have any links?

If I wear a mask and I'm COVID-negative (which I am), then who is being protected and what are they being protected from??? 

There have been varying reports and analyses of who it protects.  Last I heard it also protects the wearer.