Unfortunately Money Is A Factor

[Cherylyn]

5 hours ago, Fudgie said:

Yeah being in a more rural area definitely requires some planning ahead in terms of groceries, getting things, etc. As long as I am on the mail route and have internet, I'm happy because then I can get online deliveries. 

The urban/suburb definitely have the benefit of having things close by. Absolutely. Right now I am living in a city but planning to move back to rural, near where my family is. Even before the pandemic, I didn't utilize most of the benefits - I don't know my neighbors, I don't go to events, I don't want to meet people or celebs, etc. I got used to my treadmill. I usually play board games with people - that's it. I love driving too. I love to travel and explore new cuisines too but not willing to live near others. 

As a kid, I loved growing up more rural and the post pandemic era is making that even easier, I feel. 

I think a rural life has many benefits.  What would worry me is in the event of an emergency, usually hospitals are not nearby and I wouldn't want to drive far to arrive at my destination.  I don't want to be unreasonably faraway from relatives, in-laws and friends.  Also, not everything can be shipped and delivered.  Sometimes there are prolonged delays and it's not exactly what I want.  I don't want to have to wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. 

I've lived in apartments in the city and it was ok.  There are pros and cons to any place you live. 

My house in the suburbs grants me the best of both worlds.  I have wide open spaces with golf courses and enormous, sprawling parks and trails nearby.  I have a lot of space between my neighbors and I.  I have easy access to shopping anywhere I want, theater, culture, museums, arts, music, concerts, everything.  I don't have to battle the weather either.  If I choose to be insular on any given day, I can do that.  If I'm in a social, in person mood, I can do that, too.  I have fresh, clean air, it's so quiet, I don't share common walls with anyone, see neighbors too close for comfort, I don't have to be sandwiched in city crowds, share crowded sidewalks, inhale pollution, inhale typical city odors, look at trash, dirty gutters, grimy streets, congested traffic, listen to traffic noise, etc.  I've already lived that life in apartments in the city. 

It does take money though to arrive at this point.  Whether a person meets the right person or does it on their own, it is possible.  It's not easy but it is possible. 

Yes, money is great to have and life is more comfortable.  However, I really agree with others when we all say that high quality character does matter.  Pay close attention to character always.  Being with anyone who isn't a moral person is simply a waste of everyone's time and energy. 

Meeting the right person is often times pure dumb luck.  You can help yourself get lucky if you're shrewd as with all goals in life. 

[Fudgie]

My family lives in the country, my friends, not so much, but I don't see them much in person anyway. Yes, hospitals are further away, I think where I am planning to live, maybe 35-45 min? I don't know. I work in the medical field so I am maybe a bit better off than most people in a medical emergency but I'm of the opinion that if I have a cardiac event or a large stroke, I'd rather just pass away at home and that's even if it the hospital is 5 min away. I know I am young but I've seen the outcomes and don't want to risk it. So that's a trade off for sure. I get why people would want to be closer - kids and all. I don't care much anymore about in person culture events or concerts. I guess I used to, but I just don't care. If I really wanted to, I could take a day trip and get stuff/do stuff in an urban area and then go back home.

Living in a rural area, at least where I am, is much cheaper than living in suburbs. Taxes and all. No one with kids wants to live where I live - horrible, tiny school district with few resources and few taxes, which means less expense for me.

I appreciate the advice but I'm just complaining, haha, my situation will not change - I am not dating, hooking up, or making any effort in this regard...no meeting men, no parties, much to my parents' chagrin. I've decided that for me, it's not worth the effort and inevitable disappointment so my focus goes to other things. Will have been single for 3 years this winter and it's a big deal for me. 

Everyone needs to be realistic in what they can offer and how that lines up with what they are seeking. 

[Cherylyn]

30 minutes ago, Fudgie said:

 

I agree, Fudgie.  There are pros and cons no matter where you live.  I'm different than you.  In the event of an emergency I don't want to be too far away from a hospital especially if it will save my or my loved one's life. 

I can't always wait for shipments and deliveries either.  Sometimes I want or need things immediately without having to wait for it. 

I imagine living in a rural area is much cheaper due to less demand to live there and if you don't mind any inconveniences.  If it suits your needs, I'm all for it. 

Everyone has their situation and what works for them.  I agree about being realistic and how everyone lives where they are for their various reasons.  It's all good. 

I've lived in apartments in the city and apartments not in the city.   I've lived in condos, townhouses and after that, several suburban houses.  Apartment living was OK for the time being and temporary.  Sometimes I felt safe and other times not that safe.  I have heartwarming memories of those years.  However, it was time for a change of scenery and different strokes for different folks.  To each his or her own. 

[Fudgie]

Heck yeah, it's definitely cheaper (no HOAs, no coveted status, no neighborhood services - heh, what neighborhood??, and in most rural areas, there are cruddy, tiny schools - why live in a good $$ school district if you're not using that resource?) but in truth, I'd still go for rural even if it were more expensive because I like the setting an and the ability to have a bigger house but not have it *look* expensive, if I'm making sense...I enjoy nice things, sure, but I don't like other people to know I have nice things.

For me, it's also safety but for kind of an odd reason. I've been stalked by patients before, one recently, and when you're remote, it's a hinderance to them trying to come by your house. One of my colleagues lives either urban or 'burbs and yes, a couple people showed up to her house. No living on a bus, subway, or other major transit line for me. But again, that's probably not a concern for the vast majority of people but definitely is for me. 

Healthcare changes you 😝 My family knows - if I have a cardiac arrest or a major stroke at home, I want to stay home and pass away.

[Cherylyn]

7 minutes ago, Fudgie said:

 

I agree, it is cheaper to live in a rural area and it wouldn't make sense to enjoy amenities of the area if you're not using them such as good schools, convenient errands and the like.

That's scary about being stalked  You're correct.  Stalkers don't want to drive far to stalk you.

I don't like public transportation either.  I don't use public transportation because I don't need it where I live.

Regarding healthcare, if anyone has cardiac arrest, stroke or  any  type of emergency,  I nor my loved ones want to die.  If any of us can spare and save our lives due to the convenience of a nearby hospital, we prefer to live than die.  Driving extra minutes, 35 minutes, 45 minutes or more will kill and I nor my loved ones are not ready to die yet if we can help it.  I know several people in my midst who were at death's door and if wasn't for their nearby hospital, we would've attended their funeral instead of an in-person "alive" social gathering (special occasions, birthdays, weddings, graduation celebrations, holidays, etc).

A rural setting sounds beautiful though.  However,  there's a cost and sacrifice to every location.

[Fudgie]

Yeah I know my view on death is a little different, but I can't really help it at this point, it's definitely my career. I also used to do a TON of hospice work. I know my folks feel the same way, as did my grandparents who were strict "do not resuscitate" once they hit 60 years of age. I still remember being a teen, visiting grandma in the hospital, and yelling at a doctor when I realized he rescinded that upon entry without her consent. They lived to be very old but we all knew if they keeled over, at home or hospital, that was it. 

I know most people don't think like me, and definitely think like you do. I've taken care of many "bad outcome" cases, and some good ones, and for me, I'd rather die (hopefully peacefully) than risk the bad ones and my advance directives reflect this. Absolutely mortifies the couple friends who know this when we broached this subject, but they aren't my proxies so, oh well. 

At the end of the day, we all have to make choices on what we can deal with. I've met some lovely patients who are in awful shape at times, pain too, but are just happy to be with their families even if they have some severe medical issues, sometimes terminal. I respect that, hell, I took care of them so they can continue to enjoy life as they did. It was touching, really. 

But for me, being honest, there are some things that become before family (the people I love most) and being relatively cognitively intact is one of them. I won't say I'm not afraid of death, but there are other things I fear quite a bit more. 

[Jibralta]

I'll opt for the 'do not resuscitate' when I reach the appropriate age/circumstance, and I've never been in the healthcare field. But seeing the indifferent care that my godmother and grandmother received, seeing what happened to my dad in the Mayo Clinic, and even my own mundane experiences with healthcare has left me jaded about the system in general. I'm just not into doctors and waiting rooms and insurance BS (ugh!) and pretty much avoid them at all costs. If my body can't support me, then let me die. I don't want profiteers poking and prodding and messing with it. 

[Wiseman2]

♥️💝💔💖 🎉🎊🎈🎁🎂 🏧💰💳💵

[Cherylyn]

13 hours ago, Fudgie said:

 

I respect your preferences.  In my life, some precious loved ones lost their lives when they were not that old yet which could've been prevented had they had access to quicker medical care. 

I'm sure rural life has its appeal.  The inconvenience factor would impact the quality of my life though.  I realize your circumstances dictate where you live and we all do what we need to do to survive with financial situations. 

Where I come from, we all want to avoid premature death. 

[Fudgie]

14 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

I realize your circumstances dictate where you live and we all do what we need to do to survive with financial situations. 

Oh, I'm sorry I gave off this impression. I do not need live in a rural area due to financial restraints. I make good money and can live wherever I'd like. However, the decreased cost of living rural apply to me because I'm cheap! 😅 In a handful of years, my car will be almost 20 years old! I've taken care of it and it runs well and just don't want to buy a new one despite having enough money to buy one outright, if I wanted to. A couple of my coworkers like to poke fun of me because I'm one of the highest earners in our workplace but I drive the cheapest, oldest car. Honestly, I'm kind of proud of it. My parents lived the same way - good money but lived modestly.

Actually this is one of the reasons why I have struggled with dating in my social class. I grew up with the means to wear designer clothes, have luxury items, etc. I never wanted to do that. I've found myself at odds with men who, like me, grew up with wealth and privilege. I did some traveling, like them, but didn't stay at luxury places. 

I love my parents and my upbringing but I do feel a strong sense of difference with many others. It goes to show that not everyone has a "tribe", or at least my "tribe" is all related to me. 

[Cherylyn]

1 minute ago, Fudgie said:

 

I admire frugality because I'm the same way. 

Because many of my possessions are well cared for and still in mint condition, I do not replace them readily.  I still wear timeless classic clothes from decades ago!  However, I buy quality.  My mother taught me to buy quality instead of a lot of junk which will end up in a charity bag. 

I can easily move up again yet I do not because after paying off my mortgage and owning my house free and clear, I prefer to save money every month.  I agree, it's better to have money than keep up with the Joneses. 

My sister lives in a $1.6 mil McMansion in a very affluent neighborhood but she's saddled with a lot of debt.  She has an expensive mortgage, there's HOA, high property taxes, a gigantic house consumes more electricity, water, gas, there's higher maintenance costs, repairs, yard upkeep, she has expensive car payments and it's an expensive lifestyle.  She uses more gas and time because her gated community is not close to anywhere convenient.  Money is flying out the window.  It's better to be quietly affluent than flaunting it while in paying debts every month. 

 

[Fudgie]

I am the same as you, Cherylyn, much prefer to save money than spend. Your quality comment strikes me as true, too. I'd rather buy something that will last and hold up over time. That's always been my philosophy. I definitely will spend money on things that I enjoy; I only buy "Kerrygold" butter and I don't care how much it costs, it makes a big difference to me! But overall, yeah, prefer to save and then when/if things come up, I'm not screwed.  

[boltnrun]

@Fudgie, I refuse to skimp on toilet paper! No scratchy, thin brands. Charmin for me! Same with soap, I buy it from a local boutique handmade soap shop that charges $6.50 a bar but it's so creamy and moisturizing I don't even need body lotion. Plus it smells divine. 

Anyway, as fascinating as this discussion has been the OP left about a week ago. So she's not benefitting from any of this!

[abitbroken]

I know i am behind here, but to me, as long as the other person is a good steward of their money, who cares if they are rich. That means, if they end up with a windfall inheritance or start making more money, they will still be a good steward of it vs burning it.  It means if something crap happens to them and they are not working for a little while (the company they work at folds), they will be okay because they already have a plan for emergencies). If they end up being the house husband or wife, they wlll be a good steward of your joint money. 

You don't want some silver spoon guy who throws money around and then if something happens and it dries up (they are injured and unable to get out of bed for six months), you still have a good relationship vs the only attractive aspect was money.

If a guy is a volunteer firefighter, that they are doing it to help others.  I have relatives who do it and they do get paid a stipend. Some have used it as a stepping stone to get to be a full time firefighter (they were already known in the department and became very value added if the time came because they had EMT experience as well).    Some have done it because they retired as a firefighter and were still pretty young.

It depends on what you are looking for - money, character, etc, you cannot change character, but money can change.

But then i am older.

 

I had a friend who divorced a man who was a violent alcoholic. She said if she met someone, she wouldn't care - if he was a good, caring man who loved her - she would work.  If he was disabled due to a work injury or he had a job that he loved but didn't pay big bucks -- she would not care   She DID find her guy.  He was a super kind man who was retired military (retired young)  and worked part time at a nonprofit he had a passion for.

And they lived happily ever after.

She already had a house -- so she didn't expect anyone to provide it

 

[abitbroken]

25 minutes ago, Fudgie said:

I am the same as you, Cherylyn, much prefer to save money than spend. Your quality comment strikes me as true, too. I'd rather buy something that will last and hold up over time. That's always been my philosophy. I definitely will spend money on things that I enjoy; I only buy "Kerrygold" butter and I don't care how much it costs, it makes a big difference to me! But overall, yeah, prefer to save and then when/if things come up, I'm not screwed.  

I am the same way - buy once and buy good. (but obviously, you don't buy food once.) But if you buy good food instead of junk, its cheaper to stay healthier in the longrun

 

[abitbroken]

BTW, i thought a lot of women thought firefighters were hot (no pun intended)

[Spawn]

On 11/15/2021 at 7:40 PM, Fudgie said:

Working men do not share the load with their working female partners, statistically. I've seen this play out so many times and household chores, while I do them, I've always hated them. I'd rather just be working more. 

it all depends on the upbringing i feel, i can only speak for myself, from very young age i have done my chores get my stuff ironed, buy stuff from shop get the exact change from the shop owner, initially i hated it true but when we look at that as a responsibility things change, similar to brushing your teeth going for a poop (when it comes obviously) at the right place and not at neighbors house. I remember my engineering days, in college hostel, it was a task for each one of us to clean the toilets and sometimes for some days some of the batch mates never did it. Some of the households have maids some have many helpers doing it throughout, so the boys are resting enjoying basically that part of their brain is always underworked, they become lazy and arrogant, feed their egos. Agree many of them become rich but some of us still remain middle class families working (hard) at home 🙂

[Cherylyn]

EMTs, firefighters, police officers, law enforcement type jobs are "widow makers."  They're noble professions and I admire them for putting their lives on the line for society.  However, I wouldn't marry them because I don't feel like becoming a young widow.  My mother was a young widow.  No thanks.

My hairstylist's husband is a police officer.  She's always nervous because she never knows if her husband will come home alive. 

With seniority, they have good job security and benefits.  My childhood friend's father was a fire captain and he made good money.  It's dangerous work though.  My other friend's son sustained permanent injuries from training to become a firefighter.  He walks with a permanent limp after numerous surgeries from a treacherous fall. 

The money is okay but not top tier. 

Regarding working men not sharing responsibility for household chores, it depends on how they were raised.  If sons grew up observing their father helping their mother without the mother asking for help each and every time, these types of sons make helpful husbands.  Fortunately, my husband helps me a lot because his father is so good to his mother.  I don't enjoy chores and errands.  I don't know of many people who enjoy these daily tasks.  It's not so bad when there's cooperation such as help.  For example, if I take care of errands (grocery shop, etc), I'll cook dinner and dessert.  Meanwhile, my husband will clean the house, vac, mop, clean kitchen and bathrooms, do laundry, fold laundry, put away, etc.  Or, on other days, he'll help me cook and he'll clean up in the kitchen.  I'm grateful to him for picking up the slack.  I never have to run myself haggard.  Four hands make for light work.  We divide and conquer.  It's team work and we're in lockstep.

 

[Fudgie]

Spawn and Cherylyn, 

You're right, it absolutely boils down to how someone was raised. In my family, the women tend to be financially successful, sometimes more than the men, and still have to do 90+% of everything. It has infuriated me from a young age. I truly do dislike chores, having had a ton of responsibilities and being a parental figure from a young age (long story), and it has completely soured things for me in a relationship sense. 

That said, in my dating experience, I've not found the equality that people talk about, even in left-leaning "feminist" men. I don't doubt that it exists but I do think it's rare, perhaps where I am. 

Spawn, the image you give of the women slaving away as the men rest nearby happily is a common image in my life. My parents still reinforce it. I learned early on that it doesn't matter how much $$ you make as a woman, the hours you work, the workload is never equal and will fall to you, 100% of the time. I've seen it happen to most of my friends as well. It's happened in a couple of my relationships. 

I'd rather make bank on my own (which is what I'm doing) and pay for a maid service. 

What is that saying, a leopard can't change its spots...? It sounds like both of you were raised well and understand the importance of chipping in. 

[Batya33]

I don’t think it does. I give adults a lot more credit then just following what they saw as kids. For example my sister was a total slob growing up and we had no chores of any significance (but we each had jobs as teenagers ). Anyway she married in her early 20s and became a neat freak.  She had 4 kids - the first three only 2 years apart I think and then a 4 year gap and she had no clutter and all spotless. One of her daughters is like her and one is not and hires housekeepers (she works hard raising her 3 small boys but no she doesn’t clean or anything ). I believe her oldest daughter does a lot and is into neatness.
Yes upbringing is important.  But I believe adults make their own choices and can and should.
 My grandmother had no high school neither did my grandfather- immigrants early 20th century and so hard working. I’m so proud of them.
 

Both their kids got college and in one case a medical degree. My mother was discouraged from going to college in the 1950s. But as a teenager she made her own choices and her own way.  

certainly there are outliers. An abused child without intervention likely won’t have the tools as an adult to make a different choice. I can’t stand seeing the repeat.  And a child raised to do chores and housework can revel entirely depending on how it’s presented.  I changed a lot as an adult. I’m 55 and still flexible and open to change.  

[Fudgie]

It's true that people can improve from their upbringing, absolutely. That said, I've (personally) not met adult men who would share the load. Or at least, they would talk the walk but not walk the walk. 

[Jibralta]

12 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

I don't know of many people who enjoy these daily tasks.  It's not so bad when there's cooperation such as help.  For example, if I take care of errands (grocery shop, etc), I'll cook dinner and dessert.  Meanwhile, my husband will clean the house, vac, mop, clean kitchen and bathrooms, do laundry, fold laundry, put away, etc.  Or, on other days, he'll help me cook and he'll clean up in the kitchen.  I'm grateful to him for picking up the slack.  I never have to run myself haggard.  Four hands make for light work.  We divide and conquer.  It's team work and we're in lockstep.

Same with my boyfriend and I, although nowadays he is picking up the lion's share (I am back in the office while he is at home). It is wonderful to have a teammate. 

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I give adults a lot more credit then just following what they saw as kids.

  Agree. My boyfriend's dad is a great guy, but I don't think he helps around the house the way that my boyfriend does.

4 hours ago, Fudgie said:

Or at least, they would talk the walk but not walk the walk. 

Oh yes. I've seen that, too. But it's something that can be said for people in general!

[Jibralta]

12 hours ago, Spawn said:

it all depends on the upbringing i feel, i can only speak for myself, from very young age i have done my chores get my stuff ironed, buy stuff from shop get the exact change from the shop owner, initially i hated it true but when we look at that as a responsibility things change

I think it's a combination of upbringing and personality. The upbringing helps! But people are orderly and neat in different ways. 

[mylolita]

It is true… the male millionaire doesn’t hanker after a 45 year old rocket scientist. The stereotype of young hot trophy wife is a stereotype for a reason.

 

Most men don’t want vapid, unthinking women but on the flip side, most men also don’t need you to be a career powerhouse with three degrees to your name.
 

When men say they want a woman with a good sense of humour, they don’t mean a comedian who will crack jokes every half hour like their mates down the bar. They mean; not uptight, and can have a laugh and finds their jokes genuinely funny. A woman who doesn’t take herself too seriously.
 

Women find status, money, competence and education sexy, but for most men when it comes to women this is completely secondary and just a bonus.

 

Marry for love. It’s the only thing money can’t buy. It’s also the only thing that will last and remain once looks fade or markets crash.
 

In my humble opinion, and in the words of Biggie Small - “Mo money, mo problems”

 

Lo x

[Cherylyn]

10 hours ago, Fudgie said:

Spawn and Cherylyn, 

 

I remember growing up with my late chauvinistic father despite my mother and I being gainfully employed!  I never saw my father cook, wash a dish, push a vacuum cleaner, wipe a countertop nor do anything considered "women's work."  As the eldest daughter,  it was MY responsibility to take care of my younger siblings, clean the house and get dinner ready before my parents came home from work.  These duties were not up for debate and it was non-negotiable.  It was an expectation.  I pulled more than my weight as a young girl. 

I agree that gender roles are still unfair for many households.  Fortunately, I feel blessed and lucky because I've been spared inequality and unfairness in my marriage and family life.  Because my husband is so cooperative and helpful, I never feel burdened nor overwhelmed with daily responsibilities.  He shares the load and he makes life feel smoother, easier and lighter.   'Happy wife equals happy life.'   <- Even my smart male neighbors said the same exact quote recently. 

Everyone in the household pitches in and does chores, errands and whatever it takes to sustain our daily lives.  No slackers allowed.   

Regarding people who are stuck in their permanent, stubborn mindset, yes, it's true about a leopard cannot change its spots.