What to make of all this....?

[BreakingBadHabits]

I will try and keep this as short as possible. I'm 40M and she's 34F, we met at work and dated for almost 5 years. We got engaged last year and were supposed to get married Oct of this year. We were "soulmates" we had an instant connection when we met, co-workers even told her that I never have talked to anyone at work as much as I did to her. This is true. Everything was great for the most part, I caught her in little lies here and there but nothing major. 

Problems started around June 2013. A blast from her past re-appeared in her life. She bumped into him and they exchanged numbers and have known each other for 10 years prior. Not a big deal - until she was showing me a video on her phone and a message popped in saying, "I love you so much" followed by "I'm going to make you mine". She didn't see that I saw the messages because she was holding the phone so I could see it. I decided to address it that weekend. I asked who (GUY) was. She said, "oh that's an old friend, why?". I told her I saw the messages and said they're inappropriate and why would he be sending you stuff like that? She said, "he doesn't mean it like that he's just a friend". I told her that it needs to stop now. She then said she wanted me to meet him so I could see. Well as time went by I found out he had been coming up to her office at work. Hanging out and talking, sometimes bringing lunch. So I asked her again what the deal with (GUY) was? She got super defensive and that lead me to talking crap about him, calling him a few choice words/names and she got even more mad and left to go to her moms to cool off. Well, when she left I left to go to my parents house. 

As I was driving I get a call from a random number. I didn't know if it was someone from work so I answered, it was (GUY). He apologized and said he didn't mean to send the messages and that he didn't want to run her relationship. He won't do it anymore but it wasn't mean the way it was said. I told him what I thought about him sending the messages and told him I also knew about him coming up to her work. He again said it wasn't like that and I told him I'm busy right now but feel free to talk about it in person then we hung up. 

After that I kind of started rethinking the relationship. She's always been a little secretive when it comes to her phone. So, I started backing off a little. Later in 2019 around October she was showing me her phone again and I saw a message pop up from a females name that said, "I love you so much". I asked her who the hell Sara was because I've never heard you talk about Sara? After blowing up at me she finally admitted it was (GUY). She changed his name to a girls name..... seriously? Now I really started slowing down and kind of withdrew from the relationship a little more. 

Fast forward to 2020. On January 1st, as a New Years resolution, we agreed to do more stuff together and get the relationship back on track and do what all we had planned in the future - kids, marriage, grow old together. So her mom and I had talked, and I Was going to propose to her on Feb 14th. But my mom was sick in the hospital and I wanted her to be a part of the proposal since she wasn't doing well health wise. Since the proposal got derailed her mom and I agreed to do it when she got back from her trip March 14th and as everyone knows COVID hit and everything was shut down. Then April 23rd my stepdad passed away. I lived 3 hours away and with COVID we had to stretch the funeral out over the course of 4 weeks per the funeral home. Well during that time I was trying to help my mom get her stuff squared away, my sisters were helping too, but I had to do it remote because I didn't want to be in person for safety reasons since I was still going into the office at work. Well, 3 months after my step dad passed away, my mom passed away on July 30th. My girlfriend at the time was SO helpful. She checked in on me, she went to my moms funeral with me, she helped me pick stuff out for the funeral and even went down and helped me and my sisters clean her apartment out. She cleaned and moped while we boxed everything up. 

****Major Side Note***** This relationship, was the first time I have ever in my life told a girl I loved her. Keep reading to see why this is important. Prior to my mom passing we had went down there for my stepdads funeral. While we were down there my mom started talking to her about me while I was in the shower. Long story short my mom told her that I don't say the "L" word. It's true. I never have told any one that I loved them. Not even my parents. I didn't grow up in an affectionate household (parents divorced when I was little and I lived with my dad - he was ex military and was all about "be a man and not a sissy" ya know?) and all the relationships I saw as a kid, my sisters, friends, and parents were dysfunctional and a lot of arguing. None were loving like you see on TV. Here is why my girlfriend will always hold a special place in my heart - forever. As we were leaving to go back home my girlfriend said, "why don't you tell your mom you love her before we go?". I kind of brushed it off and she said, "come on, tell her? I've never seen you tell her." So I went back over to my mom and after screwing around for a few mins I finally said it. My mom looked up at me and smiled. I never knew that would be the last time I saw my mom..... After my mom passed my girlfriend told me what my mom had told her and she said my mom told her, "I just want to hear him say he loves me at least one time before I die. I know he does, he does so much for me, he just never says it." This right here, is why I'm having such a hard time with the break up. My girlfriend did a lot of little things but they were SO huge and impactful. ****End Side Note*****

Unfortunately at this time I wasn't in a good place. Me and my girlfriend had communication problems as it was, but when this happened I pretty much isolated myself in an upstairs room and shut her out. That was my way of dealing with everything that was happening. The loss of 2 loved ones, COVID, lock down, appeared to be too much. I'll also ass that my sex drive was super low, so low the last time we were intimate was in January 2020. We went the whole year without sex. Stress, unhappy at work, kept finding messages from (GUY) that were still inappropriate for the 3rd time now, and we got in to a rut where all we did was work then come home and watch TV. So trying to turn a negative into a positive I decided on October 4th 2020 I was going to propose. I got her mom, my dad, and one of my sisters to be there for it. She never saw it coming, it was great. She was so surprised and she even said YES! She loved her ring, I had it custom made just for her so it would be the only one out there. I sent the video out to my other sisters and my aunts and uncles. They ALL said the same thing, "What??? We never thought you'd get married, CONGRATS". This was a big deal for me because I never was interested in marriage. Relationships prior sucked, a lot of fighting and arguing. So marriage was off the plate until I met her. 

Fast forward to 2021. She was excited about the wedding, she got with her friend and started looking for a venue and has some save the date invitations made. Everything seemed to be going good, she would go to her friends out and they would pick out stuff for the wedding and so on. Until I found out that all the late nights and coming home at 3 or 4am weren't because she was at her friends house. I noticed he was coming hoe around 3 or 4 am every morning. I didn't think much of it because she said she was wedding planning - made sense to me. Well, when I questioned her about it she got defensive, said I was trying to control her and manipulate her. So she said she was going to her moms. Well, later on I called her mom and asked her if she was there. Her mom said no, she hasn't seen her in a while, is something wrong? I told her about the coming home at 4am and said she told me she was with you some of the time. Her mom said she hasn't seen her in a month. They were supposed to go dress shopping but she canceled on her. So I call her friend that she said she was with, her friend hadn't seen her either. Now I'm pissed and I discussed a few thing with her friend that, looking back I shouldn't have. But what's done is done. 

Come to find out she had been hanging out with, you guessed it, (GUY). That's when the ish hit the fan. She blew up at me for talking about personal things with her mom and bestfriend and left. This was on April 18th. I tried calling her, texting her, she wouldn't respond so I left her alone to cool off. About a week later she stopped by the house grabbed a suitcase and said she was going to her moms. I tried to get her to talk about it and she refused. So she left. I didn't call her or text her, tried to let everyone cool off. I didn't see her for a while but since we worked at the same place she started calling me again during the day and talked about work. I brought up the relationship and asked her if she wanted to work it out, she would say yes, then say she wasn't sure. Never gave a straight answer. This went on all through May, June, and July, every now and then she would text me or call me and say I'm going to come home and try again. Some times she would show up for a day, then leave again. Other times she would text me and say she's on her way then never show up.

On July 9th, we both got terminated from our job, stupid reason, retaliation from a cowardly manager. Anyways, she would randomly pop up for a day at the house then gone again for a week or longer.

July 21st, she showed up around 2pm, she went upstairs laid down in the bed and said she was having bad cramps and didn't feel good. So I warmed up her beanbag and went to go get her some lunch from her favorite sandwich place. Around 4pm I hear a knock on the door, I go down stairs and who could it be? If you guessed (GUY) you'd be correct. I didn't know that though when I opened the door. He demanded to talk to my girlfriend, I asked who the hell he was, he said I'm (GUY). My girlfriend came downstairs and was yelling, he stated yelling, I get in the middle and she walks out back to her car. He walks towards me and says, "I had to come over here. As bad as I didn't want to but I had to let you know what was going on. She's playing you and me both. She's been laying up at my place for the last 2 months and she only reason she came here today was because we got in an argument about girls I talk to". This went on for about an hour. He was telling me she told him she was done with me, she took her ring off, he introduced her to his mom and his girl, they've been going to vacations.... I was shocked but I guess not surprised at this point. He finally left and she never came back that day. I called, text, no response. 

July 23rd, she randomly showed up and I tried to talk to her about what happened. She said a little but most was deflecting and bringing up stuff I did, then she blew up and left.

July 29th, around 10:30PM she showed up while I was in the shower. I Said what are you doing here? She said she was trying to work on the relationship. She went and got food and said there was a movie she wanted to watch. Next morning gone. 

The last time I saw her was Aug 3rd. We cleaned out the apartment and had the movers come pick the stuff up. I moved back in with my dad, and she went back to her moms. Aug 4th she text me and asked me if I wanted to go to the library tomorrow, I said sure let me know when. The 5th gets here and nothing. So I go no contact. Aug 14th I get a text that said, "I WANT MY STUFF BACK" I replied, "so you've made your decision I take it?" she replies with "I didn't make any decision I just want my stuff back" followed by "you don't talk to me and I don't talk to you so..................." followed by, "ARE YOU GOING TO GIVE ME MY STUFFBACK?" I replied and said, "I'll have it ready for you tomorrow, it'll be by the front door you can come pick it up". She never replied after that. She also never picked her stuff up. Then Aug 19th I get a text saying she used me as a reference and to be expecting a call. I told her ok, and her new employer called for a reference check, I spoke highly of her and he said she's hired. I text her that I spoke to (company) and she said, "thanks! I appreciate it". Then Aug 21st I text her asking her if she wanted to meet up and talk, see how things go. She said she was with her mom at the movies and would text me in a few. Never sent a text or called. So I haven't communicated with her since. 

Any idea what I can do, or shouldn't do at this point? I know what the overall consensus is, but I would like to reconcile and get her back. I know, after all that, why would I want her back? Because she had a huge impact on my life. She was the first girl I've ever told I loved and she was there for me when I lost my mom. She even wrote a note and put in my moms casket and did the same for my step dad. Lastly, I also feel if I didn't do the things I did and shut her out, get complacent and take her for granted we wouldn't be in the situation we're in.  

Any thoughts?

[equinax]

i absolutely hate to boil such a thoughtful and enlightening post down into two words but i will. 'empathy' and 'trust.' how would your girl feel if you treated her the way you described? be as brutal as you can in your answer? secondly. the same. do you trust her? you cant build a marriage without trust but you can trap a lust with an engagement? hand on heart, judgement day moment, do you feel you deserve better? if you do. speak up. you have NOTHING to lose xx 

[BreakingBadHabits]

26 minutes ago, equinax said:

i absolutely hate to boil such a thoughtful and enlightening post down into two words but i will. 'empathy' and 'trust.' how would your girl feel if you treated her the way you described? be as brutal as you can in your answer? secondly. the same. do you trust her? you cant build a marriage without trust but you can trap a lust with an engagement? hand on heart, judgement day moment, do you feel you deserve better? if you do. speak up. you have NOTHING to lose xx 

I guess I'm stuck because I think it was my fault and I pushed her to do the things she did. I blocked her out and didn't communicate with her well. She gave me hints along the way, they didn't register in my head at the time. But I hear them now, all the "we live like roommates instead of a couple" and "we don't even have sex anymore"... looking back, she tried. 

I also can't edit the post. Problems started 2019 NOT 2013. 

[Pleasedonot5]

So, she may have given you solid advice at a key moment in your life, OP. She may have softened your heart enough for you to say the L word. 

Unfortunately, she is a liar and a cheater. She strung you and Mr. Guy along for quite some time. She is still stringing you along. She is not the one you will end up with. There is a better partner in your future who (1) is capable of giving solid advice during key moments, (2) will get you to say that you love her, and (3) is not a liar and a cheater. But for your current ride on the (ex-)partner's "will she, won't she" emotional roller coaster, you would realize that. 

I am with the "consensus" that you leave her and try to heal and move on. You mention you want to reconcile despite the consensus which advises against it. Even so, look at this situation strategically, OP. You two will never end up happy together if she does not respect you. You have always been willing to let her return no matter what she does. You let her treat you like a doormat. You do not even respect yourself enough to say "enough is enough." Accordingly, she does not respect you. She has shown you this much through the way she treats you. 

I do not see a way forward for this relationship/marriage, OP. I am sorry. But even if there is a way forward, it will not be found if you always let her back in each time she flirts with the idea of reconciliation.

-- 

I hope this helps. 

[SherrySher]

You are involved with a compulsive cheater and liar, please stop kidding yourself.

You seen the red flags right from the start. "little white lies"...are lies, nothing little about it.

She showed you who she was right from the start. You chose to look the other way.

She has cheated on you repeatedly and yet you keep bending back over and taking more.

Where is your self respect?

When are you going to stand up for yourself, and stop allowing this lying, cheating manipulator to continue to mess you over?

Her suggestion to tell your mother "I love you", was a nice suggestion, but that was a moment between you and your mom, that YOU chose to do. Don't make it about her, at all.

And a suggestion, is tiny in comparison to the crap she has pulled.

No doubt there is even more men out there that's she been fooling around with.

Most times when you find something out, it's only the tip of the iceberg.

Please get a backbone, block her, put her stuff out on the porch and tell her it's there and if she doesn't come get it, it will be hauled away by the garbage men.

Stop allowing her to use you, or have anything more to do with you.

She has treated you like a dog, and it's high time you take your self respect back. 

[SherrySher]

14 minutes ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

I guess I'm stuck because I think it was my fault and I pushed her to do the things she did. I blocked her out and didn't communicate with her well. She gave me hints along the way, they didn't register in my head at the time. But I hear them now, all the "we live like roommates instead of a couple" and "we don't even have sex anymore"... looking back, she tried. 

I also can't edit the post. Problems started 2019 NOT 2013. 

BULL!!!

There are many, many men and women out there that deal with problems in their relationship and no matter how bad it may get, THEY DO NOT CHEAT.

Stop kidding yourself.

She's a grown woman, who when faced with adversity in relationship, decided to play around with other men.

It takes many many steps and choices to start talking to another man, to flirt, to entice, to meet, and to eventually have a full on affair with texting, meeting up, etc.

She made every single choice, and she is fully accountable.

She could have made other choices, like talking to you, telling you it's not working, suggest couples counselling, etc.

She chose very badly. This is on HER.

[equinax]

2 minutes ago, SherrySher said:

You are involved with a compulsive cheater and liar, please stop kidding yourself.

You seen the red flags right from the start. "little white lie"...are lies, nothing little about it.

She showed you who she was right from the start. You choose to look the other way.

She has cheated on you repeatedly and yet you keep bending back over and taking more.

Where is your self respect?

When are you going to stand up for yourself, and stop allowing this lying, cheating manipulator to continue to mess you over?

Her suggestion to tell your mother "I love you", was a nice suggestion, but that was a moment between you and your mom, that YOU choose to do. Don't make it about her, at all.

And a suggestion, is tiny in comparison to the crap she has pulled.

No doubt there is even more men out there that's she been fooling around with.

Most times when you find something out, it's only the tip of the iceberg.

Please get a backbone, block her, put her stuff out on the porch and tell her it's there and if she doesn't come get it, it will be hauled away by the garbage men.

Stop allowing her to use you, or have anything more to do with you.

She has treated you like a dog, and it's high time you take your self respect back. 

top top post. you can be walter white in season one breaking bad. you have nothing to lose. controlling abusive people need people to dominate. if you stop being that person you will turn the table. xx

 

[BreakingBadHabits]

23 minutes ago, Pleasedonot5 said:

So, she may have given you solid advice at a key moment in your life, OP. She may have softened your heart enough for you to say the L word. 

Unfortunately, she is a liar and a cheater. She strung you and Mr. Guy along for quite some time. She is still stringing you along. She is not the one you will end up with. There is a better partner in your future who (1) is capable of giving solid advice during key moments, (2) will get you to say that you love her, and (3) is not a liar and a cheater. But for your current ride on the (ex-)partner's "will she, won't she" emotional roller coaster, you would realize that. 

I am with the "consensus" that you leave her and try to heal and move on. You mention you want to reconcile despite the consensus which advises against it. Even so, look at this situation strategically, OP. You two will never end up happy together if she does not respect you. You have always been willing to let her return no matter what she does. You let her treat you like a doormat. You do not even respect yourself enough to say "enough is enough." Accordingly, she does not respect you. She has shown you this much through the way she treats you. 

I do not see a way forward for this relationship/marriage, OP. I am sorry. But even if there is a way forward, it will not be found if you always let her back in each time she flirts with the idea of reconciliation.

-- 

I hope this helps. 

I hear what you're saying. I understand it fully. I guess I'm just a mess right now and can't think straight. I feel like I lost everything. Job, fiancée, and mom all in a short period of time. Before the middle of 2019 happened, everything was good. We got a long good and had fun. I guess that's why I want a second shot, I know what we were in the beginning. 

[Tinydance]

Yeah I figured it wasn't 2013 because the timeline didn't seem to match lol Well, look, maybe you did pull away and didn't have sex and so on, but the problem is you can't change the past. I'm also not sure whether she already had something going on with that guy even before your family members died and you'd pulled away from her. I think she was very likely cheating on you because you did see all those messages to her from that guy. She also changed his name to a girl's name in her phone. That means she had something to hide. If she wasn't doing anything wrong then she would be open about when and what she's texting him.

She accepted your marriage proposal but she was actually cheating on you and lying to you while she was supposedly "planning the wedding". There is no excuse for her cheating because she agreed to marry you and she had a choice about that, her choice was to say yes. 

The way she behaved after she left was absolutely disgusting and appalling. Yes, she WAS playing both you and that guy. You can see now that she's not the person you thought she was. She doesn't actually have any integrity or care about other people's feelings. She's really not trying to work out your relationship at all. You know where she is every time she leaves - she's with that guy. She even told him she was finished with you and met his family and went on holidays with him.

I think at this point there's really not much you can do because she doesn't WANT to do anything. She prefers to just lie to you and string you along. 

I think the best you can do now is just leave her alone and don't contact her at all. If she contacts you, you can either not reply or you can say that the only time you will speak to her is if she wants to work on your relationship. You need to stop letting her treat you like this. She's being a huge a-hole and you're being a doormat and letting her get away with all of it. Don't forget that she's a cheater and that doesn't make her a good person.

[BreakingBadHabits]

24 minutes ago, SherrySher said:

You are involved with a compulsive cheater and liar, please stop kidding yourself.

You seen the red flags right from the start. "little white lies"...are lies, nothing little about it.

She showed you who she was right from the start. You chose to look the other way.

She has cheated on you repeatedly and yet you keep bending back over and taking more.

Where is your self respect?

When are you going to stand up for yourself, and stop allowing this lying, cheating manipulator to continue to mess you over?

Her suggestion to tell your mother "I love you", was a nice suggestion, but that was a moment between you and your mom, that YOU chose to do. Don't make it about her, at all.

And a suggestion, is tiny in comparison to the crap she has pulled.

No doubt there is even more men out there that's she been fooling around with.

Most times when you find something out, it's only the tip of the iceberg.

Please get a backbone, block her, put her stuff out on the porch and tell her it's there and if she doesn't come get it, it will be hauled away by the garbage men.

Stop allowing her to use you, or have anything more to do with you.

She has treated you like a dog, and it's high time you take your self respect back. 

That's part of the problem. In all my past relationships I didn't care. I never took them serious or even really try to keep them going - put little to no effort in them then I ended up breaking up with them or simply ghosting them.

This was the longest relationship I've been in, and in the beginning it was great, I actually tried and put all my effort into it. I did everything for her. 

She shared her past with me. Her dad cheated on her mom all the time. She was in abusive relationships in the past, so I wanted to be THE best for her. I Wanted to show her there are good people out there. I feel like I let her down, that's all.

 

[BreakingBadHabits]

26 minutes ago, SherrySher said:

BULL!!!

There are many, many men and women out there that deal with problems in their relationship and no matter how bad it may get, THEY DO NOT CHEAT.

Stop kidding yourself.

She's a grown woman, who when faced with adversity in relationship, decided to play around with other men.

It takes many many steps and choices to start talking to another man, to flirt, to entice, to meet, and to eventually have a full on affair with texting, meeting up, etc.

She made every single choice, and she is fully accountable.

She could have made other choices, like talking to you, telling you it's not working, suggest couples counselling, etc.

She chose very badly. This is on HER.

I hear you. But I really believe that I hold some blame here. I lost myself and I Stopped being the person she fell in love with. 

On to your point about dealing with the problems. We both come from a bad up bringing, I look at it as we don't know how to deal with the problems properly...? We're both childish at times and we're both stubborn and hardheaded. 

I left that part out, my fault. When I was in my "isolation" period she did suggest counseling. Me being stubborn I refused and told her I was fine. That's why I say she tried. She tried to get me to see that she was unhappy.  

As far as respect - she fully respected me until I guess I went soft for whatever reason. I've never had a problem walking away from anyone. I've never had a problem putting my foot down, I lost my way at some point. 

I even told her we should give it a second shot. She said she cant decide what she want's right now. I asked her if she wants me out of her life completely, she said no. I asked her if she can picture life without me, she said no. 

I guess I'm holding on because this is the first relationship I've actually wanted to be in an put effort in. Plus, the instant connection. I've never felt that before. Just so much I think about. 

On the flip side, all my ex's from the past that I didn't put effort into or try when I was with them, have always reached out and asked about a second chance. Ones I don't care about come back, but what about the one I care about? 

 

[SherrySher]

16 minutes ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

That's part of the problem. In all my past relationships I didn't care. I never took them serious or even really try to keep them going - put little to no effort in them then I ended up breaking up with them or simply ghosting them.

This was the longest relationship I've been in, and in the beginning it was great, I actually tried and put all my effort into it. I did everything for her. 

She shared her past with me. Her dad cheated on her mom all the time. She was in abusive relationships in the past, so I wanted to be THE best for her. I Wanted to show her there are good people out there. I feel like I let her down, that's all.

 

You treated woman badly in the past. You now want to be a better man and invest your emotions, time and seriousness in a long term relationship.

Congratulations, you've become a better man in what you want and how you treat people.

The unfortunate part is, you chose the wrong woman to invest your time and emotions in.

You may be ready for something more serious and ready for a healthy relationship that is long term, that doesn't mean the person you pick will be in the same mindset as you, or will treat you as well as you treat them.

I think there are millions of people out there that so badly want someone to be as good as they had hoped they'd be, and when they're not, we justify and fool ourselves into thinking that "if we only show them more love then what they've been given"..."if we only give them another chance now they know their mistakes", "its not their fault because they've had a hard life", and so on, and so on.

The problem here is, this is an individual with quite significant issues.

Yes, she had a bad past, her family wasn't the best, BUT, as a grown woman it's HER responsibility to get herself into therapy, and learn how to heal from all the past pain, so she can be a better woman, not let the past continue to hurt her and to learn how to treat others better than what she's been treated.

It is NOT YOUR responsibility to "fix her". It never was.

The only thing you can do now, OP...is fix yourself.

You are struggling. You had a lot of loss. You keep reaching for the wrong person in order to try to find some kind of happiness.

At this point, you need to save yourself.

Find a counselor or therapist who can help you cope with the grief you are not dealing with.

Talk through the emotions of betrayal, of the depression, etc, with someone who is qualified to give you the proper help.

The last time you need to is to run back to a woman who is one of the main sources of your pain and suffering.

It's not the right time to open the door to someone else either. You're not in the right headspace to date anyone else either.

You need help, in the form of counselling. See if you can get a counsellor or therapist at least once a week, twice if possible.

But please, stop thinking you somehow need this woman in your life and start being your own best friend.

 

[SherrySher]

1 minute ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

That's why I say she tried. She tried to get me to see that she was unhappy.  

If she "tried", it was very minimal. And if she seen that you weren't open to doing anything to make the relationship work, she should have been woman enough to sit you down and tell you it's over and you need to go your separate ways.

But she didn't do that.

She used you, she lied to you, betrayed you, did the same to another man at the same time.

OP, normal people do not sink to that level, no matter how hard the relationship gets.

They don't treat people that badly.

Please understand that she is far more deviant than what you're admitting to yourself.

[BreakingBadHabits]

23 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

I'm also not sure whether she already had something going on with that guy even before your family members died and you'd pulled away from her. I think she was very likely cheating on you because you did see all those messages to her from that guy. She also changed his name to a girl's name in her phone. That means she had something to hide. If she wasn't doing anything wrong then she would be open about when and what she's texting him.

I can confirm she wasn't cheating prior. We work at the same place and she was home every night. 

The funny thing is, I see what she's done. I see the games she's played and I can't seem to walk away.... 

However, I have gone no contact and I don't reach out to her. She reaches out to me in the form of lashing out when she does text except for the one time when she needed me as a reference. So in my mind, I'm on her mind. And if she's lashing out she must still have feelings?

[BreakingBadHabits]

15 minutes ago, SherrySher said:

You treated woman badly in the past. You now want to be a better man and invest your emotions, time and seriousness in a long term relationship.

Congratulations, you've become a better man in what you want and how you treat people.

The unfortunate part is, you chose the wrong woman to invest your time and emotions in.

You may be ready for something more serious and ready for a healthy relationship that is long term, that doesn't mean the person you pick will be in the same mindset as you, or will treat you as well as you treat them.

I think there are millions of people out there that so badly want someone to be as good as they had hoped they'd be, and when they're not, we justify and fool ourselves into thinking that "if we only show them more love then what they've been given"..."if we only give them another chance now they know their mistakes", "its not their fault because they've had a hard life", and so on, and so on.

The problem here is, this is an individual with quite significant issues.

Yes, she had a bad past, her family wasn't the best, BUT, as a grown woman it's HER responsibility to get herself into therapy, and learn how to heal from all the past pain, so she can be a better woman, not let the past continue to hurt her and to learn how to treat others better than what she's been treated.

It is NOT YOUR responsibility to "fix her". It never was.

The only thing you can do now, OP...is fix yourself.

You are struggling. You had a lot of loss. You keep reaching for the wrong person in order to try to find some kind of happiness.

At this point, you need to save yourself.

Find a counselor or therapist who can help you cope with the grief you are not dealing with.

Talk through the emotions of betrayal, of the depression, etc, with someone who is qualified to give you the proper help.

The last time you need to is to run back to a woman who is one of the main sources of your pain and suffering.

It's not the right time to open the door to someone else either. You're not in the right headspace to date anyone else either.

You need help, in the form of counselling. See if you can get a counsellor or therapist at least once a week, twice if possible.

But please, stop thinking you somehow need this woman in your life and start being your own best friend.

 

I guess I should rephrase that. I didn't treat them like garbage, beat them, or talk down to them. I just didn't see a future with them so I didn't try. I have never talked about marriage or kids with any of my past girlfriends. When they brought it up I changed the topic or ignored it. 

But with my ex fiancée, she made the affection easy. She made saying the "L" word easy. She was everything I was looking for. I realized it about 6 months in. When I realized it, it's like a switch flipped.

As far as fixing myself - while in no contact I have been working on the things she brought to my attention. Ironically, the things she brought to my attention were ALL things my past ex's say I NEVER did. But with my fiancée I did them, I just stopped doing them. I'm also working on learning how to open up and show emotions. 

I guess I also feel bad because I know I hurt her. I know, according to her, I was THE ONE. She never thought about marriage or kids in her past relationships either. We both agreed that when we got married it was one and done. Divorce wasn't an option - only we didn't make it that far.

It's just really hard right now. A friend of mine said it's hard because I've never felt love before and I've never loved this hard before. I think she's right.....

[SherrySher]

8 minutes ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

I can confirm she wasn't cheating prior. We work at the same place and she was home every night. 

The funny thing is, I see what she's done. I see the games she's played and I can't seem to walk away.... 

However, I have gone no contact and I don't reach out to her. She reaches out to me in the form of lashing out when she does text except for the one time when she needed me as a reference. So in my mind, I'm on her mind. And if she's lashing out she must still have feelings?

You can't walk away because of all the loss you had. You are desperately trying to hold onto some kind of familiarity or comfort...even a toxic one.

But you are reaching for the very wrong person. 

She has nothing to offer you but more heartache and pain.

She is lashing out because she knows she's done you wrong, but people who are manipulators will always try to turn the tables so they are never at fault and will always blame you.

Her refusing to own up to what she's done, and how badly she has treated you, or someone putting the blame on you continuously, only proves more how toxic she is and how you need to stay away from this person.

[SherrySher]

1 minute ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

A friend of mine said it's hard because I've never felt love before and I've never loved this hard before. I think she's right.....

You felt lust, you felt friendship, you felt a kind of connection that you hadn't had before, but I don't believe it was love.

It all depends on how you define love, obviously.

But love is usually a two way street of respect, friendship, loyalty. 

I'll cut to the chase here, OP.

This woman cheated on you three times according to your write up.

Three times.

There is no way in the entire world you can justify that.

Somewhere in your mind, you must know she won't ever stop cheating or hurting you.

You're addicted to a very toxic person and you need to find ways to break free from that addiction.

[BreakingBadHabits]

10 minutes ago, SherrySher said:

You felt lust, you felt friendship, you felt a kind of connection that you hadn't had before, but I don't believe it was love.

It all depends on how you define love, obviously.

But love is usually a two way street of respect, friendship, loyalty. 

I'll cut to the chase here, OP.

This woman cheated on you three times according to your write up.

Three times.

There is no way in the entire world you can justify that.

Somewhere in your mind, you must know she won't ever stop cheating or hurting you.

You're addicted to a very toxic person and you need to find ways to break free from that addiction.

You're absolutely right. When talking to friends they say what you want to hear. I like the forum so far. 

I sent her an email about 3 days ago. I apologized for how things have been lately, and I told her how I was working on myself, I understand the mistakes I made, and I understand I haven't been my best lately. It was semi long, I also included positive memories and told her I was here to talk when she was ready.... She hasn't replied or said anything about it. I didn't really send it to get a reply. I chose to email because that avenue will be harder to argue on vs phone or text. Plus when we start going back and fourth in text she threatens to block me. I guess that was a mistake?

 

25 minutes ago, SherrySher said:

She is lashing out because she knows she's done you wrong, but people who are manipulators will always try to turn the tables so they are never at fault and will always blame you.

Her refusing to own up to what she's done, and how badly she has treated you, or someone putting the blame on you continuously, only proves more how toxic she is and how you need to stay away from this person.

This makes a lot of sense too. When ever I tried to talk to her about anything she gets mad and says she's leaving. The last in person conversation we had, I asked her why she showed up at the house at 10:30PM. She said because she was trying to work on the relationship. I asked her if she's trying to work on it, why leave the next day? She blew up and said I haven't changed. She said when she comes around to work on it, everything could be going good then I'll say something to mess it up. Then all the good is lost again and she has to start over. She does seem to shift the blame to me especially when I bring us stuff she's done. 

She also to this day has refused to talk about him showing up at the door. She also hasn't apologized for the stuff that's happened. I seem to be the only one apologizing. 

But since we've left the house and moved back with our parents (which her mom called worried about her because she hadn't seen her in a while. Her mom did call and say she came home on the 17th around midnight.) but she hasn't called or asked to hang out like she was doing before.

One other thing, we had to put stuff in storage. 99.9% of it is her stuff, it's just furniture from the house she had already and misc stuff. But when I talked about it I said, "where do you want to store your stuff?". She replied with, "OH so it's just MY stuff and not our stuff? Just leave it and I'll deal with MY Stuff.".  

She gets mad over stuff like that. She gets mad when I say her stuff vs our stuff, and her vs. us/we... 

I've never had this many problems are relationships supposed to be this difficult and challenging????

[BreakingBadHabits]

One last thing, when we were last in person I suggested we go to couples counseling and would she be interested in that. she said, "Yeah........" then she goes on a loud rant, "but it's funny how you want to do it now since it's convenient to you. But when I suggested it you ignored me" and on and on and on. 

At this point it seriously seems like no matter what I say it's wrong. She gets mad just being around me. So I think the no contact is good to lead everyone calm down.

[lostandhurt]

Okay you seriously need to step back and look clearly at her behavior throughout the relationship.

Do you know what is one of the number one excuses cheaters use when confronted?

"He/she is just a friend"

I know you want this to be all your fault because if it is your fault then you can change and fix it right?  Guess again, she  is all over the place you are just ignoring it because you miss her.

The relationship is over and needs to stay over for your sake.

  Give her stuff back if you have to ship it to her so there is no longer any reason for contact between you two.  Go total NC and start healing.

Once you meet someone stable you will look back on this as a blessing.

Lost

[SooSad33]

4 hours ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

Any idea what I can do, or shouldn't do at this point? I know what the overall consensus is, but I would like to reconcile and get her back.

I doubt you can do that, sorry 😕 .

She sounds so unsettled doing this back & forth.  Often after the initial break up, it will not succeed with the 2nd attempt. Due to many reasons. ( the pains of the first BU, what caused the BU the first time, issue's were never resloved, etc).

 

1 hour ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

I asked her if she's trying to work on it, why leave the next day? She blew up and said I haven't changed. She said when she comes around to work on it, everything could be going good then I'll say something to mess it up.

 

- This is manipulation, she turns it all around onto you over & over again.

Either way, what YOU need to do is just STOP all of this!  It is mentally breaking you down 😞 .  it's draining, isn't it?

So, stop the mind games with her now.

She has shown you over & over she's done - and as I mentioned, quite unsettled ( messed up).  Believe me, you don't want to be involved with someone like this!

She will break you down if she isnt doing so already.

So, you need to just walk away, for good and leave her alone.  No begging or chasing.  

Find your inner strength and self respect back.

And, I am VERY sorry to hear of the loss of your family members.. this, on top of all else is very hard to deal with.

I will suggest you seek some prof help?  Maybe grief counselling to help you work through ALL of these losses.

 

[MissCanuck]

7 hours ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

I also feel if I didn't do the things I did and shut her out, get complacent and take her for granted we wouldn't be in the situation we're in. 

Wrong. Absolutely wrong. 

You're in the place you're in because, well, she is a selfish and lying cheater.  If she had issues with your relationship, the correct course of action would be to communicate them to you or end it. Not cheat on you. She does not love you the way you love her, and she hasn't for a while. Couples therapy is not going to fix that.

It's time to move on. 

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

I feel like I lost everything. Job, fiancée, and mom all in a short period of time. 

Sorry this happened. Focus on getting employment. Why exactly, were you both fired simultaneously?

Something missing about that story.

Are you living with your father? Have you severed all financial and other practical issues such as allowing her to collect her belongings?

Do not try to get back together. You were living as roommates and she was on/off with you and this other guy.

You're not compatible. You can call her a @#&+liar, cheater,etc. but you've known that for years and went forward anyway out of your own inertia.

In other words, focus on your own issues and let this conflicted situation go so you can have some peace.

The best place to start is to get to a physician for an evaluation of the depression and anxiety and overall lassitude and malaise. At that time, ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support.

Focus on yourself. You can write tomes about her cheating and other unseemly behaviors but the common denominator in your unhappy relationships and still living at home at 40, never marrying etc. is you.

 

[TONI20]

I know it is so hard to let go because you do have a history and lots of sentimental memories. 

However, she never felt your loss. She knew she can always pop in and out as she pleases. She even threatened to block you if this or that....no, no, no...

you admitted to your faults, to the time where you could not be the best partner- this is huge. Lots of people would not admit and just blame the other person. 

Cut her off completely. That is the only way to deal with this. You need at least 3 months off -no text, nothing and than let us know how are you feeling.

Let her feel your absence. 

[Kwothe28]

4 hours ago, BreakingBadHabits said:

I asked her if she's trying to work on it, why leave the next day? She blew up and said I haven't changed. She said when she comes around to work on it, everything could be going good then I'll say something to mess it up. Then all the good is lost again and she has to start over. She does seem to shift the blame to me especially when I bring us stuff she's done. 

Ah, good old deflection. Is she a narcissist? Because some of the things you said, her need of attention of men, her lack of empathy toward both of you(you and her lover), even her wanting to seek reference from somebody she hurt, using deflection when she faces criticism, those are all very narcissistic threats. Narcissists usually ask for admiration at any cost. When she didnt get it from you due to circumstances, she turned out to the lover. When she had a fight with him she would go to you so you could pleade with her and beg her to stay because you "love" her. When you confronted her about cheating she deflected and was mad at you for talking with her mom and even left you. She cant face criticism because that would mean she is not all that perfect. So she just deflects the guilt onto you because it cant be her fault that she cheated. See how vile all that circle she wrapped herself into is? That is why I think that she may be that or at least exhibit some of its properties. 

Anyway, you shouldnt blame yourself here. Your only fault is that you didnt see "the writings on the wall"(her texting other men inappropriately, lack of sex for a year etc.) and didnt cut all that off sooner and even wanted to marry somebody like that. Her compliance about that only shows what I wrote before, that she knew that didnt work and probably cheated even then but idea of marriage was somewhat exciting to her so she stayed for that. You are only as useful to her as the dopamine charge, other then that, her lack of empathy toward you shows that she didnt care for you. I am sorry, but that is how it is. Its her fault for cheating. She may deflect it on you, you may even think its your fault because you somehow pushed her there, but ultimately its her fault. If she wasnt happy she was free to broke things off. Instead she accepted marriage proposal, cheated, broke things off, then came back whenever she had an argument with her lover. That is all on her and her cheating ways. Cut her off from your life, you would be far better without her in it, trust me.