BreakingBadHabits

2013 was a typo - it should have been 2019. I was new to forum and didn't catch it before the time to edit ran out.

Will do! This would be the ideal outcome, but we shall see what the future holds! On the plus side I know what kind of partner I'm looking for AND I know how to spot the red flags quicker. So there is a positive to all this. Thanks again!

@SherrySher @MissCanuck @boltnrun @Wiseman2 @DancingFool @Kwothe28 I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to reply and help with the situation. It was my first ever "heart break" if you will and I got a lot of good insight from you. The interaction on here was really helpful and opened my eyes to a lot of things that I missed or didn't realize at the time. As of today I have dropped all her stuff off at her moms house and I have blocked both from any further contact. I did explain to her mom though and let her know why I'm cutting contact out of courtesy. That said, I still fear for the future. Having to start over at 40 is scary especially since I was engaged and ready to have children with her. I feel I will have to give up hope having kids due to not rushing into anything, plus most women my age or a tad younger already have kids and don't want anymore and if they don't have kids they don't want any. But we will see what the future holds. Thanks Again, BreakingBadHabits

True, but at the time we were "fresh" and she seemed genuine. At that point no real reason to lie. We weren't even "official" yet. Like I Said, at the beginning she was super sweet and fund to be around. The 3-4 month mark is where I'm starting to recall some behavior problems.

Now that I think about it she's been doing that since early on. That little white lie I caught her in around the 6 month mark I mentioned in the OP, she was out with another male friend but told me she was going over to her moms to go Christmas shopping. This went on for 2 weeks. I don't remember how I caught her in that one though. I do remember her showing me text messages between her and him and there wasn't anything inappropriate, he seriously seemed like he was on the edge, so I let it go. Point is, when I caught her in it she said he was going through problems and need someone to talk to but turned it around on me. The next day while I was at work she was blowing my phone up calling me all kind of names and saying she wasn't going on Christmas vacation with me and cancel her ticket. She ended up going, but her mistake turned into my fault. Then another time I came home and she was in the garage. I looked through the peephole on the door and saw her in there. So I went up stairs and showered. When I was done I asked her if it was hot in the garage. She asked how I knew she was in the garage, I told her I looked through the peephole. She flipps out talking about how she doesn't like people spying on her and why didn't I let her know I was home. Wth....? Then another time I came home and she was in the bathroom talking on the phone with (GUY - on speaker). I sat down on the sofa and was playing with the dogs. I heard her say, "why'd you lie to me? I thought you said you were at your moms house. Why'd you lie? We need to chill sometime and catchup." So when she got out of the bathroom and saw me sitting there I said hi like I normally do, then asked her why the hell she cared where (GUY) was? She said, "I can explain, his brother was looking for him and............. wait a minute, WHY WERE YOU EVESDROPPING ON MY PHONE CALL?? You need to announce when you come in the house. Make some noise, say hi, slam the door.... don't just come in all quiet and listen to my call." So what you're saying all makes sense now. So. Many. Red. Flags. I agree with this. It makes sense now looking back. I was always in the wrong no matter what. I looked at it as creating business. I did learn a lot in that short amount of time, and I think he was good at what he does, but I think his goal was to fix our issues. He also seemed interested in hearing her side to get the whole picture. I did acknowledge and and own about 3 weeks ago, before that I wasn't taking responsibility. I wasn't blaming her either, I just kept saying we both played a part in this. Let's both fix it. Then I went on to do everything you're not supposed to do during a break up that probably pushed her away. So, this is interesting because of her past relationships. First one was semi abusive. Guy took her car, money, and wouldn't let her leave the house. He was controlling and mentally abusive. Second one, the guy was physically abusive and kicked her in the face knocking her 2 front teeth out and needing stitches on her lip. Her mom had to go over there and rescue her from him in a different state. Maybe those past relationships played a part in her attitude towards men? But what I don't get is, WHY when women get a good guy like myself, who did EVERYTHING for her and that's not an exaggeration, why treat me like garbage? The first 2 months we were together, I simply stopped by Walmart and picked up some juice since I saw she was out the night before and she seriously said, "that's the nicest thing anyone's ever done for me." So, if that's the case, why treat me like trash? But as I said before talking on here is really opening my eyes because I have to reflect on the past and then read what I type. I'm seeing the big picture now vs. only my happy memories we had.

All of that makes perfect sense. I don't believe I'm in the denial stage though. For the most part I've accepted it for what it is. Like I said, talking on here had made me realize a lot of things that I glossed over or didn't pay attention to. But typing them out here I can see all the manipulation she was doing. I hope so. I think it's also rough because it's been dragging on since April 18th. Before I knew she was with (GUY) she would give me hope and make me believe she wanted to work it out. I guess I was holding on to the hope she gave me. Looing back also I realize she's been treating me pretty bad. Up until the end I did everything for her. To show you what a fool I am, a few days later after (GUY) came to the house she stopped by and said her stomach hurt. I went and heated her bean bag up and made her some hot tea. I guess my problem is I totally went soft along the way somewhere. I started taking her crap without realizing it and it progressively got worse. But in fairness, I did play a part in the downward spiral of the relationship. I just wish before she went out seeking attention she would have threw me a life raft...... you know, SAVE me like I supposedly SAVED her when I met her.

No she hasn't. She hasn't admitted anything or apologized for anything. The last thing she said to me in person was, "you haven't changed. Nothing has changed and now you want to go to counseling since it's coinvent for you."' After that I went no contact, I've only replied to stuff when a reply is needed, like to pick her stuff up and the reference thing.

That's not it at all. I'm just trying to make sense of everything. I guess I'm trying to understand so that in any future relationships I don't make the same mistakes or miss the red flags. I'm an easy going person and I don't feel I should have to babysit someone I'm in a relationship with. But I have been thinking about everything. I don't intend on getting back. But she does need to do some major overhaul if she wants to be successful in her future. I'm not sure if she's done any of this in any of her past relationships, but she is kind of sloppy when trying to be secretive. She's definitely not an expert, I just wasn't paying attention, I was out n my own world until I suspected something more was going on. BUT, I never expected her to be cheating. That was a total shock to me because of our discussion about cheating at the beginning. Then up until the end, when ever we watched a movie, or a reality TV Show where there was cheating, she would always comment, "oh no, I don't see how someone can cheat on someone else". So I seriously never expected that.

I get what your saying. And I'd prefer it to be that wat too. However, looking back when I would ask her to cut the (GUY) out after sending those messages her response was, "you're trying to control me and tell me who I can talk to now?" So, looking back yes, I should have left way before she had the chance to get to where we are now. I didn't realize it until I thought about it. But she did accuse me of being controlling and manipulative almost every time I brought something up that I didn't like. Would that have anything to do with her having issues wit her dad? She had a really bad childhood and she doesn't even talk to her dad. She hasn't seen or talked to him in 10 years. I understand this too. I've been thinking about that. If we did try to work it out, I seem to be the only one working on myself, it would be the same as it was. However, I did see a counselor today. I booked a 4 hour marathon session a few days ago because I didn't think I would make much progress with a 45 minute session. We talked about what got us to this point. We talked about the lack of communication and the cheating. I got a lot of good insight but he also said the next time she reaches out I should talk to her about everything and maybe do counseling with her. He did say that people have been able to work though the issues we had and that we both seemed immature in how we handled the difficult times. She would get mad and leave or shut down, and I would shut down and not say anything. Part of why everything snowballed is because we never resolved the issue. Then when a new issue came up we would bring up the past and back to square one. Basically all of our issues went un-resolved until we both just exploded. Neither one of us knew how to communicate is a calm way. I also have issues from my past that I brought into this relationship too that I didn't realize. Now, I'm not saying I'm planning on working things out with her, but my question would be, when someone you love/once loved has issues like that why would we abandon them instead of helping them? I know you can't help someone who doesn't want to help them selves, but wouldn't all this be a cry out for help?

Incorrect. I never had a problem with trust prior to seeing that second message pop up under a girls name. I asked her about the first message and she said he was just a friend and didn't mean it like that and she would tell him to stop. I dropped it at that point. When I saw another message and it was under a girls name, after she admitted it was him, then I checked the watch. Trust but verify. She knew all my passwords for stuff. I feel in you're in a relationship and you're engaged, you shouldn't do or say anything you would be embarrassed or ashamed about if your partner found it. Why jump into a marriage with secrets? To further expand on that point, any guy, or girl for that matter, who blindly trust even when they know in their gut their being lied to, has more problems than I do. Some people even say, "I don't want to know if my partners cheating"..... why not? I have no problems addressing things. But if I don't like your response or don't believe you, I'll get the info I need by any means necessary. This is 100% true. Honestly, I should have left after I saw the second message under a girls name. The first message, I trusted she would take care of it. My mistake. Luckily neither one of us use social media, only LinkedIn, which she has been removed from there. Not at all. Again, I haven't initiated any contact (except for the email) all calls and text she initiates. I haven't blocked yet though. I will eventually do that.

Oh, in that instance you're correct. Yes, he claimed that he showed up because he was tired of her coming back to my place. I listened to what he had to say and I believe most of what he said. He showed me text messages, pics, and was able to tell me what her an I were doing - going out to eat, going to the movies, making plans for date nights - it's like she kept him updated on what her and I were doing? That didn't make sense for her to do if he believed she was in a relationship with him? Again, not justifying, but if I was cheating on my fiancée with a girl who knew I was engaged but I told her I wanted to be with her, I wouldn't update her with my every move me and my fiancée did....? So when she said the only reason he showed up was because he was just upset because he wanted to be in a relationship with her and she didn't want that. Again, not justifying, but that does make a little sense. But at the time I thought she was at her moms or her bestfriends. Had I known she was somewhere else I would have reacted different. One reason I didn't suspect anything is, if I called early in the morning or late at night, she answered. She wasn't in a rush to get off the phone or talking low. So when she said she was at her moms or bestfriends I believed it.

I'm not justifying what she did with what I'm about to say. But he was a friend from the past who she lost contact with. I didn't have a problem with her having friends, in fact she had other guy friends and I never thought anything about it. I have female friends I've known way before I met her. I expected boundaries though. If a female friend of mine was sending me "love you" messages I would have cut her off.

Dude. Everything except the striked out is me 100%. I was hyperfocused on building US a better life and tried to explain that to her. She left me for the same reasons. I'm seeing that a lot of women do this. They can't see what the guys trying to accomplish. I guess they can't make he connection we're doing it for THEM.

Honestly, to this day she doesn't know I could see her messages on her apple watch. I only had the pw for it because I set it up for her. She's not technical. When I would ask her questions that I already knew the answers to, she couldn't figure out why I was asking them. She always had her phone with her, but she left her watch on the charger in the bathroom. He actually did. It was by chance they bumped into each other at Home Depot. Her bestfriend who I have known for 7 years confirmed they ran into each other and exchanged numbers. She was with her at the time and saw. I realize this now. The more I talk about it on here the more I see what's been going on. It's actually making me feel better to have this outlet to discuss it. I played high school football and I also was in Army ROTC, I live my live according to the lessons I learned on the field. Teamwork. I looked as us as a TEAM. I lost my way and needed help, I needed my other half to get me back on track. She tried, even though she gave up, looking back I see where she tried. She could have tried harder though or maybe she tried her best. I was stubborn and hardheaded. I would have NEVER did the things to her that she did to me. If she was going through a rough time, I wouldn't give up. She was in "my circle". My circle is small and I would do anything for the people I chose to let in my circle, I would have never give up on her or leave her behind. I guess that's what hurts me the most. That's where we're different.

I understand. I guess I'm also "scared" since I'm 40 and feel like I'll never find this again. We talked about kids, now, I want kids. I also fear having to start over. I can't just go out and meet someone, then marry them 6 months to a year later. I'm not programmed like that. It took me 2 years with her before I even considered it. I realize now I have missed out on a lot of things in life. Kids, wife, and I was SO close. this time.

In fairness I was doing the same when people asked. I think we both wanted to keep the "gossip" out of the office. When we got engaged the whole company made a big deal about it. We were known as the "power couple" at work. We were both in leadership roles and were well respected by everyone, all the way up to Divisional VP.

So, I can say that I went through her phone (actually her apple watch) and read her text messages (not proud but I had to know after the late nights out). To this day she doesn't know that I saw the messages. I've never checked her stuff except for that one time just for confirmation. She didn't seem to be reciprocating the feelings. He would send about 5 texts saying stuff like, "I love you so much, I'm going to make you mine" but she didn't reply to them with mushy stuff. He sent a text saying "good morning baby, I love you" and she replied with "good morning". Doesn't change anything though, what's happened has happened. I'm just trying to make sense of it all. I know I should be keeping busy and stuff, but I feel like I need to know why this happened.

I'm trying. I really am. I haven't contacted her. The only thing I did was send that email. But after that, nothing. She has lied a lot. I'm working on detaching. I hear what everyone's saying, I know everyone's right. I'm slowing convincing myself of that. I just don't want to believe she would do that to me after all I've done for her. When I met her she had nothing, she was in a bad place (I didn't know this at the time) and after 2 years together she gave me a plaque on my bday where she had named a star after us - Cetus. She said I saved her from her past. Stuff like that is what makes it hard to let go - the stuff she did had a special meaning.

Wow. Do people really block the people who had nothing to do with it? Seems kind of cruel. Her mom is like a mom to me. Especially since my mom passed. That's going to be rough. That the problem. I've never felt like I wanted a long term relationship until I met her. On the plus side I am seriously working on myself. Like I told her in the email, I want to be the best version of me - even if it is too late. I learned a lot from this lesson. I guess I'm also hung up on the fact that we never made the break up official. It's more of "I need space to miss you" and then she kept coming around. It doesn't feel like a break up.

No I wouldn't. Early on in the relationship we had talked about cheating and how it messes people up (she saw how it messed her mom up), so we both agreed that cheating wasn't something we would do, she even said she's loyal by default. I know what everyone's thinking right now..... Can't say for sure, but after (GUY) showed up at the door, she cussed him out and called him a lot of names. She said she's done with him (cut him out completely - I can't confirm this though) for what he did - coming to the house lying. She claims everything he was saying was a lie. I know some of what he said was true, I just don't know how much. I guess another question I have is, how do I handle it when she reaches out? What if she reaches out saying she made a mistake and wants to seriously work on it? What do I do if her mom reaches out? Her moms 70 and since she lives right around the corner she sometimes asks me to help with fixing things in her house. I don't want to be rude to people who didn't do anything wrong.

I've been reading up on narcissism, and to be honest she does kind of fit the description. Nothing is her fault, she very rarely takes responsibility for things, she will apologize on rare occasions, but after the apology will flip it back to me. When I would bring up stuff to her that bothered me, like (GUY) she would call me controlling and trying to tell her who she could talk to. Just so many signs that when I slow down and think about some of the stuff I see where I was getting fleeced. But again, it's still seems so hard to walk away. We both also had a bad habit of bring up and living in the past. She never wanted to discuss issues and when something new happened, either her or I would bring up something from the past. I know now, this isn't good to do. I have a lot to learn about relationships. I've been non-stop reading and learning, I want to be my best self. Unfortunately I'm older and should have done this sooner.

Yes, the memories are fresh and I only see the good ones. The threatening to block is childish, but as I had mentioned, for our ages we both can be childish. I have since realized that and have been working on it. Up until recently I wasn't taking responsibility for my actions or admitting to faults. I would deny and downplay things I did or just completely ignore it. Which was another one of her biggest complaints. I even told her that I was sorry it took all this to wake me up and see the damage I Was doing. I was blind to it, or just didn't realize what I Was doing. But when I felt like I was losing her I started reading up on relationships and reading up on the things she said were hurting her. That's why I sent her that email - to show her I was working on myself. She mentioned that back in June and July. She said she needs to miss me and feel the loss. Working at the same place never allowed that to happen. Zoom meetings, having to interact, she never got that break from me. Worked in different areas and didn't see each other every day, but when we were in the same office - meeting for example - we were our normal selves. We sat next to each other and joked and laughed. No one new we had problems. co-workers kept asking about wedding and she would say how excited she was even though she had already canceled it. But I haven't contacted her since we left the apt. She initiates the contact and I do reply as not to be rude. I just feel that since another one of her complaints was that I made her feel alone, going no contact would make her feel like I didn't care? But I know we need the break, I'm just confused. Again, this IS my first rodeo in a relationship I didn't want to lose. The day of my moms funeral she said, "together forever" and I believed that.

We were both part of the leadership team. We got a new District Manager and the DM came in talking crazy to most of the teammates. Caused 2 other tenured teammates to step down from their roles because DM didn't want anyone to have a voice other than DM. DM would shut people down, micromanage, killed the departments morale and I started getting calls from other teammates with some of the stuff DM was saying to them. Example, "I'm the DM, you don't need to follow up with me or tell me how to do my job. I'll follow up with you." Or when a teammate was stepping down from a leadership role, "I Don't care if you step down, the department will be fine without you". So me and my girlfriend addressed it. DM didn't like that so DM retaliated by saying we stole time and terminated us. Company was paying for housing so that's why we had to move out. Yes, I moved back in. Decided it would be best, not that I'm broke or didn't have money saved. Just felt that I needed a break from everything. She moved back to her moms, her mom lives in same neighborhood a block over. She still hasn't picked up her stuff that I have here. I've been on my own since I was 20, first time being back home. A little weird but hopefully not for too long. Yes, my previous relationships weren't the best. I think that's why I was trying so hard with this one, because I was happy. I try to think back and see why I stopped certain behaviors that attracted her in the first place.

I know it's not all my fault but I feel I hold more of the blame than she does. I just feel that if I didn't shut down, or make her feel unwanted, let the relationship get boring, stopped showing affection, isolating myself - that maybe we wouldn't in the situation we're in. Maybe that wouldn't have drove her to start hanging out with (GUY). That's how my mind is currently processing this.

One last thing, when we were last in person I suggested we go to couples counseling and would she be interested in that. she said, "Yeah........" then she goes on a loud rant, "but it's funny how you want to do it now since it's convenient to you. But when I suggested it you ignored me" and on and on and on. At this point it seriously seems like no matter what I say it's wrong. She gets mad just being around me. So I think the no contact is good to lead everyone calm down.