Advice needed - she's hot and cold and ignores me

[jsinclair89]

I'd take a moment, right now, to accept that you aren't in a place where you can think clearly, and you're not going to be for a few more weeks and with some space form this. Doesn't mean you can't think what you think, feel what you feel, want what you want, and that all that isn't relevant. It is. Just means you also accept that it's heightened stuff, a bit like being on drugs. Give me a tab of acid and I'll have about ten million epiphanies about myself and my place in the world. Most will be nonsense, two might prove to be relevant once I sober up. The drug part you're currently in will fade a bit with time, bringing the clearest thoughts to the surface.

 

Trust that. That's step one.

 

Step two? Reflect, perhaps with the help of a therapist, on your past two years with this woman—the general dynamic, how you've grown, or failed to grow, alongside each other. Be compassionate to both of you in that reflection, but know that compassion and delusion are different things. So ask questions like: Do you believe you each, truly, take the other person seriously? Do you take yourself seriously? Did you each behave in the manner of two people who take the other seriously? Are you the best version of yourself next to her? Is she the best version of herself next to you?

 

And give yourself more than 30 seconds to answer them.

 

I bring all that up because this whole moment? It doesn't exist in a vacuum, but as an extension of the mathematical equation that is you plus her. This is what it equals, at this moment. It's who each of you are, as people, and who each of you bring out in each other.

 

Personally, I'm a big believer that breakups are mirrors to relationships, with the lights turned to maximum brightness. Speaking frankly, it's not the prettiest picture now that all the lights are on, as you don't need me to tell you. It's immature, volatile, reactive, dependent on things like sex and jealousy to stoke Big Feelings, rather than trust and respect. Hot here, cold there. But is there authentic warmth between those poles? Another question worth asking and giving yourself time to consider.

 

What feels so mysterious to you right now is, as ninja said, just immaturity. On both sides. Immaturity is not a crime, but it can be pretty destructive, as you're learning. It was immature how you dealt with the woman on the plane, and immature how she dealt with it as well, and only you know how much these moments are exceptions or rules. Now she's kind of doubling down on that, behaving recklessly and disloyally to assert the importance of loyalty. It makes no sense from one angle, though from the angle of immaturity it makes perfect sense. It is how people behave when they don't have a firm inner compass, and it's why I asked if she was younger than you. It is also how people behave when they are surrounded by people who are bad influences.

 

Immaturity can be fun in romance, because we all like being reduced to that childlike state—with the dash of hot sauce that comes with sex. But it is limited, eventually corrosive, and it is worth trying to consider—to just reflect on this—if what you're seeing and feeling right now is all that immaturity, both in the glue that binds you to her and in the thing about her that repels you, much as she is repelled by you while also longing for you.

 

thank you bluecastle. in fact, i want to take this chance to thank each and every one of you who has taken the time out of your busy lives to comment and offer helpful, constructive advice...it means a lot to me and is appreciated.

 

i am unsure what you mean when you describe 'vacuum'... i don't quite understand the metaphorical context of that in this situation, and would appreciate clarity.

 

generally, i also appreciate that to the outsider (and you guys are basing your responses on my replies which often lack detail) does not fully understand the situation... when you are sat opposite someone and they are conveying body language/behaviors that are synonymous with raw attraction and love, it is very easy t overlook the situation and what is actually happening.

 

she has presumably been on her date by now and who knows he could be in bed with her now. it is clear - no matter how turbulent the situation is - that i am kinda getting played.

 

i went to a bar and a few women came up to me. i had zero interest in them. its weird to reflect and find that when you're in love with someone and invested in them that you'll completely discount other advances/affirmation from none-the wiser individuals.

 

 

thanks guys once more for your time and attention to detail whilst commenting on my current predicament . it is appreciated more than each and every one of you knows, JS

[jsinclair89]

They went on 2 dates. Hardly exclusive and she is probably not having sex with him yet. She just seems to want to get even. In any case it seems to be getting ugly.

 

thank you for your post Wiseman2. yes, when i asked her if they had been intimate (beyond kissing) she replied in a nanosecond with a resounding NO. this is comforting for that period of time, but the inevitable will occur one feels. it is getting ugly, but doesn't feel that. there are intermittent periods of animosity that are then discounted with periods of discussion of how much we love each other. tricky eh?

[RayRay63]

Analysis of answering a booty call by dumper*:

Short version is:

 

- you demonstrated you are at her beck and call, and still want her;

- you showed her you are on the reserves bench for her;

- you validated her choices.

 

On the positive side, it doesn't sound like you acted in a jealous/angry way. I suppose that's something.

 

TL/DR: next time she booty calls you, tell her you are busy.

 

 

 

[* I do think she is in the dumper's seat here. She is acting as one in substance, if not formally.]

[bluecastle]

What I meant by not existing in a vacuum is that what’s happening right now is not some “outlier” to how the two of you connect, but an extension of it. I’m taking some leaps, not knowing you and the full story, but I just believe that breakups are kind of like drugs or booze. Who I am drunk is still me, just wobbly. Who I am heartbroken is the same thing, and some of the way I deal with it might be an extension of the relationship as much as it is my core being.

 

Make sense?

 

For whatever it’s worth, I don’t think you’re being played. I personally don’t like that mode of thinking. She’s just being kind of dumb and lost, as happens. She’s hurting, confused, not dealing with it with much grace. If I was telling you the story you’re telling me, you’d probably see it pretty clearly. And I suspect you’d tell me to just take a few big steps back, knowing however it’s meant to shake out that I wouldn’t do myself any favors by shaking the branch in the middle of a fire.

 

Go back to the questions I asked above. Explore them. Don’t worry about her, or trying to “compete” with her in whatever she’s up to. Is what it is: human, not pretty. But you know yourself, your history as a man alongside her. If there are things about who that man was that you didn’t like, start addressing them. Wherever this goes, you’ll thank yourself for walking that path.

[Honeycomb8]

You clearly wanted something with that girl on the plane and it's not okay when you're in a committed relationship. Stay single and just play, don't hurt ppl again.

[Honeycomb8]

She loves you but she will never trust you again. Cos you're not trustworthy.

[jsinclair89]

What I meant by not existing in a vacuum is that what’s happening right now is not some “outlier” to how the two of you connect, but an extension of it. I’m taking some leaps, not knowing you and the full story, but I just believe that breakups are kind of like drugs or booze. Who I am drunk is still me, just wobbly. Who I am heartbroken is the same thing, and some of the way I deal with it might be an extension of the relationship as much as it is my core being.

 

Make sense?

 

For whatever it’s worth, I don’t think you’re being played. I personally don’t like that mode of thinking. She’s just being kind of dumb and lost, as happens. She’s hurting, confused, not dealing with it with much grace. If I was telling you the story you’re telling me, you’d probably see it pretty clearly. And I suspect you’d tell me to just take a few big steps back, knowing however it’s meant to shake out that I wouldn’t do myself any favors by shaking the branch in the middle of a fire.

 

Go back to the questions I asked above. Explore them. Don’t worry about her, or trying to “compete” with her in whatever she’s up to. Is what it is: human, not pretty. But you know yourself, your history as a man alongside her. If there are things about who that man was that you didn’t like, start addressing them. Wherever this goes, you’ll thank yourself for walking that path.

 

hi yes, this does make sense. thanks . i also don't think i am being played. some of the cynical responses on this thread seem to want to shoehorn certain acts and behaviours into the 'you're getting played' bucket...things arent as simple as that.

 

the other frustrating thing on here is that the cynics are viewing things in a very binary manner - i.e. things aren't ideal and she is being erratic so just 'move on'. anyone who has been in a similar situation here knows that it is NEVER as simple. that is why considerate and thoughtful posts are much appreciated because they are viewing things from a realistic and emotional perspective.

 

i agree with you that she is being dumb and lost - not ideal, but that is how it is. i have already started addressing the aspects of myself that were rubbish. i want to be a better man for myself, and by virtue of this, others near me will benefit. when i was thinking about negative aspects of myself before, i wanted to change PURELY to benefit her and show her that. i've quickly realised that i have to change for MYSELF and NOBODY else!

 

JS

[jsinclair89]

I have just realised . all of my social media pics are still of us two together!!! guessing i should change these immediately?

 

social media is a bit of a minefield, and i don't want to commit any faux pas!

[RayRay63]

She loves you but she will never trust you again. Cos you're not trustworthy.

 

I don't know.

 

Her actions read like she has taken some advice on how to teach him a hard lesson, and train him to behave in future, and the tactics include reminding the OP of what he threw away.

 

I'm impressed, to be honest. She is playing her cards very well. OP, you are eating out of her hand.

 

Still, I reckon the OP should back off - so she also can assess the feeling of missing him - and work on himself and improving, so he is a better proposition if she has a little rethink.

[RayRay63]

anyone who has been in a similar situation here knows that it is NEVER as simple. that is why considerate and thoughtful posts are much appreciated because they are viewing things from a realistic and emotional perspective.

 

Actually, most of us have, which is why we came here to this forum.

 

 

Also, most of us tried to convince ourselves our situation was very complicated and different etc so the usual sensible rules didn't apply to us.\

 

 

Eventually most of us realiize that those simple straightforward rules, that are based on biology and neuroscience, in fact have mostly universal application.

 

 

If you stick with it here, you will probably realize this is correct, down the track aways.

 

 

Alternatively, if you are ungrateful for the advice here, you might want to try the body-builders mysogonist forum or something for a different POV.

 

 

Oddly, though, they love Corey Wayne over there, and still recommend no contact.

[ninjabib]

Yeah, she's literally playing you for a fool OP.

 

This is a massive ego boost for her. 2 guys scrambling for her affections and she's blatant about it. What low value person takes pleasure in messing their partner about in such a way as you are still together officially and tolerating her trash behaviour.

 

It all makes more sense now as if she ends it officially now then she has to admit to cheating on you and therefore can't claim to be the victim she sees herself as.

[jsinclair89]

I don't know.

 

Her actions read like she has taken some advice on how to teach him a hard lesson, and train him to behave in future, and the tactics include reminding the OP of what he threw away.

 

I'm impressed, to be honest. She is playing her cards very well. OP, you are eating out of her hand.

 

Still, I reckon the OP should back off - so she also can assess the feeling of missing him - and work on himself and improving, so he is a better proposition if she has a little rethink.

 

thanks for your post RayRay. yes, i completely agree , especially with the bold text above. it is an interesting way of justifying her meeting someone else and effectively cheating on me by relinquishing all responsibility 'well i wouldn't have had to look elsewhere if you were a well behaved boy'. it reminds me a bit of a (albeit tenuous) analogy - a husband who domestically abuses his wife... and then afterwards says 'well you made me do it because of x and y... if you didn't act in the way you did, i wouldn't have had to punish you...it's your own fault, now apologise...'

 

i also agree that she is playing this very well. she knows i will do whatever she wants. she asks me to jump and i ask how high... hence, i feel the no contact side of things would benefit me . i just won't be there whenever she gives me the nod.

 

thank you once again, i shall back off !!! js

[jsinclair89]

Yeah, she's literally playing you for a fool OP.

 

This is a massive ego boost for her. 2 guys scrambling for her affections and she's blatant about it. What low value person takes pleasure in messing their partner about in such a way as you are still together officially and tolerating her trash behaviour.

 

It all makes more sense now as if she ends it officially now then she has to admit to cheating on you and therefore can't claim to be the victim she sees herself as.

 

hi ninjabib, thanks for your post.

 

yes, it is a big ego boost. she also has a catchphrase of 'well im a good catch so people will want to be with me and those people will treat me amazingly, unlike you...'

 

when she told me about dating this other guy... i said well we never officially ended the relationship did we? she responded wiht ' don't you f*cking dare turn this on me' i just said i was telling it how it is .

 

JS

[ninjabib]

Told you she would react like this and if you get back together she will act like this in future everytime you displease her because you will have already shown that you will accept it from her.

[jsinclair89]

Actually, most of us have, which is why we came here to this forum.

 

 

Also, most of us tried to convince ourselves our situation was very complicated and different etc so the usual sensible rules didn't apply to us.\

 

 

Eventually most of us realiize that those simple straightforward rules, that are based on biology and neuroscience, in fact have mostly universal application.

 

 

If you stick with it here, you will probably realize this is correct, down the track aways.

 

 

Alternatively, if you are ungrateful for the advice here, you might want to try the body-builders mysogonist forum or something for a different POV.

 

 

Oddly, though, they love Corey Wayne over there, and still recommend no contact.

 

 

haha this made me laugh!

 

i do not want to come across as if i am ungrateful for the advice - i am truly grateful and appreciate each and every one of you who has taken the time to follow my journey here.

 

yes - perhaps i am thinking that 'well no guys, my situation is completely unique and you don't really understand' when if you strip it down, the mechanics of the situation are pretty standard . js

[jsinclair89]

Told you she would react like this.

 

so, no contact now .

 

we have not messaged each other until yesterday morning when she said it was nice and that it was good to see each other before christmas. obviosuly couldn't message me yesterday as she was on a date with this other guy all day/night haha Js

[ninjabib]

Well I would be blocking and deleting her as she's admitted cheating.

 

What is it you want?

[RayRay63]

At this point she is dating someone else, so I really think you should block her phone number (and remove her from social media).

 

She can email you if she wants to.

[jsinclair89]

Well I would be blocking and deleting her as she's admitted cheating.

 

What is it you want?

I fundamentally have a problem with blocking and deleting people - in my opinion, it just seems childish but that’s just me.

 

What do I want? I want to be with her and give things another shot. But now I need to change my interactions with her and not come across as a push over.

 

Regarding her dating this new guy, I honestly don’t think it can last long term. She’s already slept with me whilst she’s dating him, and it’s so soon after a break up so it’s surely a rebound? Surely it can’t last long term?

[RayRay63]

Its Xmas.

 

Block her number, and give her the gift of missing you.

 

That will do far more to help your cause than hanging around her looking needy and insecure.

[Wiseman2]

Give her lots of time to cool off and process things. If coming back to you, forgiving things and getting back together are all her idea w it will be better. Especially if she is rubbing this 'dating others' thing in your face. That could border on the friendzone. Try not to rubberneck at the carnage, just ignore her.

we have not messaged each other until yesterday morning when she said it was nice and that it was good to see each other before christmas. obviosuly couldn't message me yesterday as she was on a date with this other guy all day/night.

[ninjabib]

OP that's fair enough if you want her back.

 

For me cheating is unforgiveable so it might be best if I stop offering advice from here in out. I would just say be very careful. Once someone's cheated they don't find it hard to do it again.

 

So for now I guess you got to ride it out and let your girlfriend keep seeing her new man. Don't contact her. Don't reply to her messages unless it's over with her lover, don't be her fake friend and I would start seeing other women for yourself. This process will help you be sure you 100% want to be with her and generally I just wish you good luck I guess.

 

Let's say you get back together what are you going to say to her or ask from her to show she's sincerely sorry for cheating on you? Or is it just fine what shes done? This cheating of hers will never ever bother you?

 

You have to be 100% sure of this before you consider having her back.

[boltnrun]

Everyone's talking about her cheating, but what seems to be getting overlooked is HE attempted to cheat first. Or at least sought attention from another female. Also while they were together.

 

OP, regardless of what's happened since, YOU set this scenario in motion by exchanging numbers with the woman you sat next to on an airplane.

[ninjabib]

For me there is no equivolence. Unless the OP is outright lying and i don't believe that to be the case. He has constantly stated she sent a flirty pic of her own volition with no encouragement and his gf went mad.

 

If i said to my partner under no circumstances ever accept a number off a male even if it's to provide helpful information then i would be called, and quite rightly, possessive, domineering and clingy. OP was travelling and this other woman said she knew the area, take my number and i can send you info about it.

 

Unless i've missed something where it does say the OP attempted to cheat?

 

This thread is about her childish behaviour. It smelt off to me right from the start where she won't end the relationship or engage in it combined with her ridiiculous over-reactions and punishments. Pathetic behaviour to me.

 

 

Edit -Boltnrun if we are engaging in -for-tat punishments then should we encourage the OP to cheat on his gf if they sort things out? If she can cheat on him once for him receiving an unwated picture can he or should he go out and lay 10 buxom vixens? Of course not because it would be childish.

 

What i am trying to get across to the OP is that he has now seen her real character regardless and it's red flags ahoy which is why i'm saying RUNNNNNNNNNN but he wants to stay which is his decision.

[boltnrun]

That's why I said "or at least sought attention from another female". And they exchanged numbers. He's admitted in this thread his motivations weren't entirely innocent.

 

IMO, trying to reconcile is a bad idea. Too much shady behavior and mistrust.