Houston, we have confusion...

[Wiseman2]

Wow y'all angry?

wow. yall speak in such absolutes.

[boltnrun]

This site is definitely not "E- tell you what you want to hear" or "E-there there". We cannot tell a lie even if the OP really wants to hear some.

 

Nothing you've told us about your interactions with her since the kick out sounds like she is considering reconciliation. No reason to blow smoke and pretend we see what we don't see, unless you left out something she said about missing you and wanting to be back together.

[Jambalaya421]

“I discovered apartments rental applications in her browser history. We never had trust issues in the past. I told her she gave me no choice but to end things, and we argued for an hour and then went to bed separately. Next day I had change of heart, sent her flowers, and she came home crying and we hugged and we discussed an action plan for fixing things. her list wassimple. do dishes, make dinner once a week, let her go out 1 night a month and counseling if necessary. for the next 4-6 weeks we were in love again. Long walks, holding jhands, chasing her around the house, slapping her on the ass, making love etc.”

 

I apologise in advance if anyone else addressed this. But I couldn’t read beyond this!!

 

You found out your partner was unhappy by finding rental apartments in her browser. Instead of discussing with her why she was unhappy , you told her SHE gave you no option but to leave her.

 

The next day you send her flowers (dismissive) instead of arranging a time to chat about what she might be feeling and why she might consider breaking up the family home.

 

But the flowers resulted in a minimal chat in which she gave a simple list of what she needs from the relationship.

 

And you were right , her list was simple! Why didn’t you deliver?

Instead of being present in the way she requested , you held her hand and slapped her on the ass and had sex? That’s not what she asked for???

Did you honour her request back then and seek counselling? Did you make dinner, arrange to be home with the kids so she can go out with her friends?

 

It sounds to me that you did dismiss her genuine feelings and therefore it’s no wonder she spoke about them to another?

 

Sorry!! But it might be a case of too little too late!?

 

Ifeel I did deliver. Its one of the few things that keep me holding my head high. I am very proud how I handled things. I just wish I got more clear advice sooner. I was cooking fancy meals, cleaning more, going for walks more, holding hands, we felt like newlyweds again. perhaps poor choice of words when I say slapping her on the ass and making love. it was deeper than that.

 

at time of first reconciliation, she claimed it was just the fighting that became too much. we argued over the silliest stuff. I blamed it on the stress of children and not resolving past resentment. She came home crying and we seemed to really get to the matters at hand. Looking back, obviously there were things she was not telling me. we were on cloud 9 for a month, she even asked if I was being real or pretend. She once fell in love with me because of my adventurous and youthful behavior towards life. even 5 years in, she was extremely committed to me and shopping for wedding dresses and new homes etc. we were great until children.

 

6 weeks later arguing reared its ugly head once again. and then the distance and the hidden texts. she never gave me a chance to listen and try. I was too dumbfounded and hurt to be present with the mindset of digging deeper and being there for her.she clearly felt it was a lost cause or I am just no longer the one. even the week before breakup she was texting daily- good morning my love, I LOVE YOU, hey studmuffin etc.

when confronting her about texts, I offered counseling and she refuses. I felt we were at an impasse and I asked her to leave. a week later she asked me a question about kids, I asked "is this all you want to talk about?" she responded "what would you like to talk about?" I was under the advice of a "no contact" relationship counselor at this point, and I rebuffed her offer at maybe talking about other stuff and insisted we keepit only about kids.

 

she left her youtube app open on our computer and to my surprise I began receiving notifications of a new playlist. she never had a music playlist before. 37 of 44 songs are sappy missing him songs. SHania twain yourestill the one, sugar land stuck like glue, Kid rock picture, list goes on and on and MANY are all about missing him. I tell myself I am looking into it too far, but here I am looking for crumbs. I have signed her out of the app forprivacy reasons, but I cannot hekp but to check the public list every once in a while. She added many just yesterday before my flowers. she has no clue I know about these songs.

 

fast forward a month. She has gone radio silent, and doesnt even respond to texts about kids. I was demonstrating I was moving on by subtle innuendos but also there for my kids and want to get a jump start on getting along for the kids. I was trying to be kind, but in no way showed her I still loved her and felt we could repair some damage. after seeing her for first time in a month, I became emotional and sent some texts rehashing where I felt we went wrong, and how much I loved er and would do anything for my family. I am an emotional person.

 

She responds with "Im not sure what you want me to say, you have made it loud and clear how you feel and what you want" Advice from female coworkers insisted that I quit being difficult and this was a hint that how I handled everything mattered. and if I didnt handle things the way I did, she may be willing to talk. They insisted I quit doing no contact and acting like im moving on. I was listening to relationship counselor and was instructed to get her to feel the loss. they told me to put all my chips on the table. They insist I show her how I feel, as a litmus test or barometer. If she says stop, I have my answer.

 

her favorite food is pizza. yesterday I sent her a heart shaped pizza from her favorite place along with a cute smiley faced vase and bouquet. along with a gift wrapped box containing hershey hugs and kisses. She clearly does not want to get into heavy conversations about feelings yet. so I am trying to keep things light, and take babysteps. 20 minutes after receiving pizza and flowers, she responds with "Thanks for the flowers and lunch"

 

her comment early on of "what would you like to talk about?" along with "Im not sure what you want me to say, you have made it loud and clear how you feel and what you want" along with the songs she saved to her playlist are all I have to go off of.

 

I knew she was stubborn going into this. I am surprised she even responded to the flowers and pizza at all. and now I am left asking myself, If you receive flowers, heart shaped pizza, and a note thinking of you.... does it send the wrong message to say Thank you, if she is trulydone.

[MrWindupBird]

I fought very hard for my marriage that ended. I stopped fighting when I met my now-ex who I’m coincidentally fighting hard to keep... this life man I swear lol

 

There are realities here that I want you to read without having to absorb them.

 

The message is a good sign. Especially since she wasn’t talking to you. Any progress is progress. But the game here is to take good signs and keep them as motivation to stay confident. Do not use good signs as ammo to shoot yourself. Do not use good signs as evidence you still own her. Because that’ll manifest into sudden entitlement and she’ll be pissed off she gave you any good signs at all.

 

The ship has sank and you’re in the water with the sharks now. You just are. There are dangers and sacrifices necessary to moving forward. You have to take things as they are and as they come to do your best here, and the first thing you have to outright embrace is that you do not have control over anything but your own actions. Any delusion of power will hurt your ego and your chances of having every option.

 

Become the change if you agree with what she wants. Look at what she wants in a relationship. In a partner. If you want to be those things take the step. She’s a woman with two kids and is still emotionally volatile most likely. You have time before she slips into another ironclad relationship. Even if she gets obsessed over someone which is often the case... it happened when my life and I divorced, she tried to find a new me and it went terribly for her. She has to choose you. She has to choose all of it. You can subtly offer things to choose. But she has to choose you and manipulating either through force or fear or begging will only make her smell that stink of subjugation and send her running.

 

You do not have control here but over yourself. So focus that control. Don’t waste it on trying to control her. I say that because I know how I was. I was used to saying I wanted a steak and BJ and getting one of each before bedtime. All of a sudden my wife is leaving, won’t return calls, and has a boyfriend. Wait what?? But if you control yourself, if you decide truly fixing it is worth your effort, then become a more attractive safe place for her. This risks justifying women but I’m of the opinion that in many cases, a woman’s neglectful behaviors are symptoms of the man not providing enough attraction. Women are so incredibly malleable in their behaviors and willingness to grow alongside their man they love. You have the power to attract her. You know you do because you already did.

 

My wife only wanted me back after the rebound crashed and she saw that all the changes I talked about were actually happening but for another woman. I also found a woman that made me totally forget my attraction for my wife, and I tried for a year of begging and trying to get my wife back. I’m in a weird spot with my girlfriend now, but my ex wife continues to loom and reminisce because that safety in our ten year relationship and all the tried and true connection we had... when the hurt from the divorce faded and the bitterness and the score keeping and the rebounds and all that chaotic crap that surrounds this stuff like maggots on a corpse... once it all went away she realized that I represented home to her like no one ever did, and she sees me strong again and not needing her to obey or carry me. And that’s a big change from when she kicked me out and divorced me.

 

A final but vitally important thing to consider is what I’m sure you’ve already heard. Sometimes things run their course for a reason. Sometimes miscommunication or staggered circumstances can create space that people can and should overcome. Every successful relationship has hiccups. As a person who enjoys relationships I know none are ever perfect. Two universes dancing, swirling together are going to take out a few city blocks here or there as collateral damage! But I beg you to analyze your own feelings and memories and weigh this as love as this woman, or love of the familiar status quo. If it’s truly the woman... and I say this because I fantasized about leaving my wife for years but was so shackled to the idea of recovery of what was lost that I had tunnel vision for a year and justified it saying oh my family and oh my kids! but when I met a woman I wanted body and soul my wife could’ve offered me anythjng and I would’ve picked this new amazing woman in my life... but if your wife is truly the woman you feel you want to grow with, then good luck.

[Jambalaya421]

wow. great stuff. from both of you.

[catfeeder]

I'm sorry to say that you could have been the best husband in the world, but it wasn't going to keep her there. Her list of demands was simple because it was all she could come up with as a stall. She got caught planning her getaway and she chickened out. But then she went on a text rampage with her friend to form a plan B.

 

She nixed counseling because counseling is pointless when one partner already has their feet out the door. That's where she was. She's also not going to tell you the real reason why. It could be an absolute desire for freedom, it could be a crush on someone else, but however you want to slice it, it wasn't about the dishes and an occasional night out with friends.

 

Whatever she's up to, she needs to get it out of her system. Attempts to circumvent that to get her back won't work. I'd seek legal advice to put basic protections in place, but I would not move toward divorce because you don't want to divorce--so don't ever operate against your own best interests again. Prideful showmanship doesn't work. Kicking her out was kind of irrelevant because she was on her way out anyway--you just made it easier for her to do what she already wanted to do.

 

Consider counseling for your own head as well as support in stabilizing yourself and your children. You'll need to move your focus on creating the best life for yourself for the long haul, because it's doubtful that wife will pipe down and grow sentimental about the husband and family life she's left behind any time soon. That doesn't mean she'll never get there someday, but not before she's lived solo for long enough to get her ya-yas out.

 

Think long range instead of struggling against 'what is' right now. She's made the leap into liberation, so the hard part is over for her, and she's going to be flying on that for a while. This isn't a reflection on you. In her current frame of mind, she's not offering you any opportunity to 'win' her back, so I wouldn't mistake any displays of civility as an open door. The only thing that can lure back someone who's flown the coop for their own internal reasons is to allow them enough time and distance to learn what those reasons actually have to offer.

 

Head high, and read my sig.

[Jambalaya421]

now that is advice I can accept and digest. thank you for your time and thoughts.

[maew]

I'm a little confused OP... why did you ask her to leave and then follow it up by begging her to return? And follow it up with all of the gifts and things?

 

Asking someone to leave their home because you are not happy with their behavior... only to follow it up with begging them to return... that's like sending a child to their room because they behaved badly, only to beg them to come out before they have finished processing their own feelings about the situation.

 

I am not saying you were wrong in standing up for yourself... just that you are not standing up for yourself or what you want if you are going back on your word all the time.

 

If you don't want to put up with her talking about your relationship behind your back, or don't want to put up with her keeping secrets, then stand your ground and focus on letting this go and building a civil partnership as co-parents with her and accepting that the relationship is over as you know it.

[HeartAce]

I'm sorry to say that you could have been the best husband in the world, but it wasn't going to keep her there. Her list of demands was simple because it was all she could come up with as a stall. She got caught planning her getaway and she chickened out. But then she went on a text rampage with her friend to form a plan B.

 

She nixed counseling because counseling is pointless when one partner already has their feet out the door. That's where she was. She's also not going to tell you the real reason why. It could be an absolute desire for freedom, it could be a crush on someone else, but however you want to slice it, it wasn't about the dishes and an occasional night out with friends.

 

Whatever she's up to, she needs to get it out of her system. Attempts to circumvent that to get her back won't work. I'd seek legal advice to put basic protections in place, but I would not move toward divorce because you don't want to divorce--so don't ever operate against your own best interests again. Prideful showmanship doesn't work. Kicking her out was kind of irrelevant because she was on her way out anyway--you just made it easier for her to do what she already wanted to do.

 

Consider counseling for your own head as well as support in stabilizing yourself and your children. You'll need to move your focus on creating the best life for yourself for the long haul, because it's doubtful that wife will pipe down and grow sentimental about the husband and family life she's left behind any time soon. That doesn't mean she'll never get there someday, but not before she's lived solo for long enough to get her ya-yas out.

 

Think long range instead of struggling against 'what is' right now. She's made the leap into liberation, so the hard part is over for her, and she's going to be flying on that for a while. This isn't a reflection on you. In her current frame of mind, she's not offering you any opportunity to 'win' her back, so I wouldn't mistake any displays of civility as an open door. The only thing that can lure back someone who's flown the coop for their own internal reasons is to allow them enough time and distance to learn what those reasons actually have to offer.

 

Head high, and read my sig.

 

You speak my mind catfeeder. Thanks for posting this.

 

Jambalaya421 - I am in a situation that is mildly similar to yours as in the age difference. I'm your age, she's 19 years younger. And I agree about what has been said here about her wanting to try out stuff "while she has time". In your case, I will dare say (though I know some here will want to stone me to death) that she is extremely irresponsible doing this with 2 kids hanging in there. Call me old school but once I commit to marry and have kids - well that means my play days are over. (Which might be why I never married or had my own kids.)

 

The only words of advice I have for you are "patience" and "time". You sound like you can stand on your two feet and that your life values are strong-based. Keep these virtues. Be kind but do not bend. I might not necessarily agree with you on kicking her out, but on the same hand, trying to talk things over would probably not have worked anyway - as catfeeder rightly pointed out, she was already checked out.

 

If you want any chance of reconciliation, you must weather the storm on your own - be there for your kids, be there for you, do a lot of self-reflection - you will always find things to improve about you. Give her the space that she wants (and actually needs). She WILL come back to talk. Not necessarily to stay, though. This you need to accept. Once you do, it will be easier for you to handle whatever comes, and it will also make it easier for her to figure out what she wants. Because she will sense this change in you. They ALWAYS do.

 

Keep it up, be strong, because you are (at least from what you wrote).

[Jambalaya421]

I agree with you.

 

I don’t agree with the conclusion that you were a bad husband.

 

And honestly we constantly tell people

 

‘They gave you no choice but to break up’

 

As well as

 

“ You teach people how to treat you”

 

So I must say I wholly disagree with the assessment that you are in the wrong for standing up for yourself and not being a doormat. TRUST me had you stayed and were crying to us ‘what do I do?’ You’d be told more than once, you have to do what’s best for you.

 

With that being said the others are right, you kicked her out.

 

That is a big deal.

 

Don’t play relationship chicken. If kicking her out was your choice you must stand by it.

 

Flowers won’t fix anything, nothing short of communication will.

 

She’s 29.

 

She’s probably not the most mature when it comes to handling all this in an adult way.

 

You marrying such a young woman well no offense, I’m gonna guess neither are you.

 

I think this marriage failed because of stubbornness, pride, age and lack of communication.

 

The age gap can’t be changed, but the others... until someone well... grows up... unfortunately this divorce is happening

 

I’m sorry.

 

This isn’t dating, this is a marriage, with children, If you want to fight for your marriage, fight for it, but stop with the gifts, talk to her.

 

I fought very hard for my marriage that ended. I stopped fighting when I met my now-ex who I’m coincidentally fighting hard to keep... this life man I swear lol

 

There are realities here that I want you to read without having to absorb them.

 

The message is a good sign. Especially since she wasn’t talking to you. Any progress is progress. But the game here is to take good signs and keep them as motivation to stay confident. Do not use good signs as ammo to shoot yourself. Do not use good signs as evidence you still own her. Because that’ll manifest into sudden entitlement and she’ll be pissed off she gave you any good signs at all.

 

The ship has sank and you’re in the water with the sharks now. You just are. There are dangers and sacrifices necessary to moving forward. You have to take things as they are and as they come to do your best here, and the first thing you have to outright embrace is that you do not have control over anything but your own actions. Any delusion of power will hurt your ego and your chances of having every option.

 

Become the change if you agree with what she wants. Look at what she wants in a relationship. In a partner. If you want to be those things take the step. She’s a woman with two kids and is still emotionally volatile most likely. You have time before she slips into another ironclad relationship. Even if she gets obsessed over someone which is often the case... it happened when my life and I divorced, she tried to find a new me and it went terribly for her. She has to choose you. She has to choose all of it. You can subtly offer things to choose. But she has to choose you and manipulating either through force or fear or begging will only make her smell that stink of subjugation and send her running.

 

You do not have control here but over yourself. So focus that control. Don’t waste it on trying to control her. I say that because I know how I was. I was used to saying I wanted a steak and BJ and getting one of each before bedtime. All of a sudden my wife is leaving, won’t return calls, and has a boyfriend. Wait what?? But if you control yourself, if you decide truly fixing it is worth your effort, then become a more attractive safe place for her. This risks justifying women but I’m of the opinion that in many cases, a woman’s neglectful behaviors are symptoms of the man not providing enough attraction. Women are so incredibly malleable in their behaviors and willingness to grow alongside their man they love. You have the power to attract her. You know you do because you already did.

 

My wife only wanted me back after the rebound crashed and she saw that all the changes I talked about were actually happening but for another woman. I also found a woman that made me totally forget my attraction for my wife, and I tried for a year of begging and trying to get my wife back. I’m in a weird spot with my girlfriend now, but my ex wife continues to loom and reminisce because that safety in our ten year relationship and all the tried and true connection we had... when the hurt from the divorce faded and the bitterness and the score keeping and the rebounds and all that chaotic crap that surrounds this stuff like maggots on a corpse... once it all went away she realized that I represented home to her like no one ever did, and she sees me strong again and not needing her to obey or carry me. And that’s a big change from when she kicked me out and divorced me.

 

A final but vitally important thing to consider is what I’m sure you’ve already heard. Sometimes things run their course for a reason. Sometimes miscommunication or staggered circumstances can create space that people can and should overcome. Every successful relationship has hiccups. As a person who enjoys relationships I know none are ever perfect. Two universes dancing, swirling together are going to take out a few city blocks here or there as collateral damage! But I beg you to analyze your own feelings and memories and weigh this as love as this woman, or love of the familiar status quo. If it’s truly the woman... and I say this because I fantasized about leaving my wife for years but was so shackled to the idea of recovery of what was lost that I had tunnel vision for a year and justified it saying oh my family and oh my kids! but when I met a woman I wanted body and soul my wife could’ve offered me anythjng and I would’ve picked this new amazing woman in my life... but if your wife is truly the woman you feel you want to grow with, then good luck.

 

You speak my mind catfeeder. Thanks for posting this.

 

Jambalaya421 - I am in a situation that is mildly similar to yours as in the age difference. I'm your age, she's 19 years younger. And I agree about what has been said here about her wanting to try out stuff "while she has time". In your case, I will dare say (though I know some here will want to stone me to death) that she is extremely irresponsible doing this with 2 kids hanging in there. Call me old school but once I commit to marry and have kids - well that means my play days are over. (Which might be why I never married or had my own kids.)

 

The only words of advice I have for you are "patience" and "time". You sound like you can stand on your two feet and that your life values are strong-based. Keep these virtues. Be kind but do not bend. I might not necessarily agree with you on kicking her out, but on the same hand, trying to talk things over would probably not have worked anyway - as catfeeder rightly pointed out, she was already checked out.

 

If you want any chance of reconciliation, you must weather the storm on your own - be there for your kids, be there for you, do a lot of self-reflection - you will always find things to improve about you. Give her the space that she wants (and actually needs). She WILL come back to talk. Not necessarily to stay, though. This you need to accept. Once you do, it will be easier for you to handle whatever comes, and it will also make it easier for her to figure out what she wants. Because she will sense this change in you. They ALWAYS do.

 

Keep it up, be strong, because you are (at least from what you wrote).

 

thank you! I read your thread. have you heard anymore from her?

[HeartAce]

thank you! I read your thread. have you heard anymore from her?

 

Yes I did, actually speaking (texting) with her now. I thought of updating the thread, will do once I know what she's up to. I'm in NIC since August, she pokes me with texts about once a month, mostly breadcrumbs, which I ignore. I respond, am polite but usually say nothing.

[Tinydance]

One thing I don't understand is why you were so angry and basically broke up over the fact she kept texting her GAY best friend? You're saying she deceived you? But she is allowed to communicate with friends and he is gay. There is clearly nothing untoward there. You came on this forum to extensively discuss your relationship with strangers online. You are getting advice about it because you're feeling hurt and you need to talk about it. She also needed advice and support and her choice to get it was from her gay best friend. Why is that not OK? Sometimes you do need an outsider perspective on things. And if you need an outside perspective, you need someone else to talk to, not just your partner. In my opinion you were a real drama queen about her talking to her friend. She doesn't have to report to you that she's texting friends and show you every single message. She's allowed to have conversations with friends and it is not hiding or deceiving because there is no requirement that she has to constantly fill you in on that.

 

I do think that you sending you the chocolates, flowers and pizza was sweet. BUT, you're sort of acting as if she owes you to get back together because you sent her gifts. She doesn't. She thanked you as is expected but if she's not happy in the relationship, she still has the right to leave. It's understandable you want to fight for your relationship and your family. But you can't force someone to feel in a such and such way. I think the best way to "fight" is to express how you feel, e.g. "I still love you and want you back". And then leave that person alone. If they decide to return to you, great. But nothing can really be done if your partner doesn't want to be with you anymore.

[Jambalaya421]

I agree with you.

 

I don’t agree with the conclusion that you were a bad husband.

 

And honestly we constantly tell people

 

‘They gave you no choice but to break up’

 

As well as

 

“ You teach people how to treat you”

 

So I must say I wholly disagree with the assessment that you are in the wrong for standing up for yourself and not being a doormat. TRUST me had you stayed and were crying to us ‘what do I do?’ You’d be told more than once, you have to do what’s best for you.

 

With that being said the others are right, you kicked her out.

 

That is a big deal.

 

Don’t play relationship chicken. If kicking her out was your choice you must stand by it.

 

Flowers won’t fix anything, nothing short of communication will.

 

She’s 29.

 

She’s probably not the most mature when it comes to handling all this in an adult way.

 

You marrying such a young woman well no offense, I’m gonna guess neither are you.

 

I think this marriage failed because of stubbornness, pride, age and lack of communication.

 

The age gap can’t be changed, but the others... until someone well... grows up... unfortunately this divorce is happening

 

I’m sorry.

 

This isn’t dating, this is a marriage, with children, If you want to fight for your marriage, fight for it, but stop with the gifts, talk to her.

 

I fought very hard for my marriage that ended. I stopped fighting when I met my now-ex who I’m coincidentally fighting hard to keep... this life man I swear lol

 

There are realities here that I want you to read without having to absorb them.

 

The message is a good sign. Especially since she wasn’t talking to you. Any progress is progress. But the game here is to take good signs and keep them as motivation to stay confident. Do not use good signs as ammo to shoot yourself. Do not use good signs as evidence you still own her. Because that’ll manifest into sudden entitlement and she’ll be pissed off she gave you any good signs at all.

 

The ship has sank and you’re in the water with the sharks now. You just are. There are dangers and sacrifices necessary to moving forward. You have to take things as they are and as they come to do your best here, and the first thing you have to outright embrace is that you do not have control over anything but your own actions. Any delusion of power will hurt your ego and your chances of having every option.

 

Become the change if you agree with what she wants. Look at what she wants in a relationship. In a partner. If you want to be those things take the step. She’s a woman with two kids and is still emotionally volatile most likely. You have time before she slips into another ironclad relationship. Even if she gets obsessed over someone which is often the case... it happened when my life and I divorced, she tried to find a new me and it went terribly for her. She has to choose you. She has to choose all of it. You can subtly offer things to choose. But she has to choose you and manipulating either through force or fear or begging will only make her smell that stink of subjugation and send her running.

 

You do not have control here but over yourself. So focus that control. Don’t waste it on trying to control her. I say that because I know how I was. I was used to saying I wanted a steak and BJ and getting one of each before bedtime. All of a sudden my wife is leaving, won’t return calls, and has a boyfriend. Wait what?? But if you control yourself, if you decide truly fixing it is worth your effort, then become a more attractive safe place for her. This risks justifying women but I’m of the opinion that in many cases, a woman’s neglectful behaviors are symptoms of the man not providing enough attraction. Women are so incredibly malleable in their behaviors and willingness to grow alongside their man they love. You have the power to attract her. You know you do because you already did.

 

My wife only wanted me back after the rebound crashed and she saw that all the changes I talked about were actually happening but for another woman. I also found a woman that made me totally forget my attraction for my wife, and I tried for a year of begging and trying to get my wife back. I’m in a weird spot with my girlfriend now, but my ex wife continues to loom and reminisce because that safety in our ten year relationship and all the tried and true connection we had... when the hurt from the divorce faded and the bitterness and the score keeping and the rebounds and all that chaotic crap that surrounds this stuff like maggots on a corpse... once it all went away she realized that I represented home to her like no one ever did, and she sees me strong again and not needing her to obey or carry me. And that’s a big change from when she kicked me out and divorced me.

 

A final but vitally important thing to consider is what I’m sure you’ve already heard. Sometimes things run their course for a reason. Sometimes miscommunication or staggered circumstances can create space that people can and should overcome. Every successful relationship has hiccups. As a person who enjoys relationships I know none are ever perfect. Two universes dancing, swirling together are going to take out a few city blocks here or there as collateral damage! But I beg you to analyze your own feelings and memories and weigh this as love as this woman, or love of the familiar status quo. If it’s truly the woman... and I say this because I fantasized about leaving my wife for years but was so shackled to the idea of recovery of what was lost that I had tunnel vision for a year and justified it saying oh my family and oh my kids! but when I met a woman I wanted body and soul my wife could’ve offered me anythjng and I would’ve picked this new amazing woman in my life... but if your wife is truly the woman you feel you want to grow with, then good luck.

 

One thing I don't understand is why you were so angry and basically broke up over the fact she kept texting her GAY best friend? You're saying she deceived you? But she is allowed to communicate with friends and he is gay. There is clearly nothing untoward there. You came on this forum to extensively discuss your relationship with strangers online. You are getting advice about it because you're feeling hurt and you need to talk about it. She also needed advice and support and her choice to get it was from her gay best friend. Why is that not OK? Sometimes you do need an outsider perspective on things. And if you need an outside perspective, you need someone else to talk to, not just your partner. In my opinion you were a real drama queen about her talking to her friend. She doesn't have to report to you that she's texting friends and show you every single message. She's allowed to have conversations with friends and it is not hiding or deceiving because there is no requirement that she has to constantly fill you in on that.

 

I do think that you sending you the chocolates, flowers and pizza was sweet. BUT, you're sort of acting as if she owes you to get back together because you sent her gifts. She doesn't. She thanked you as is expected but if she's not happy in the relationship, she still has the right to leave. It's understandable you want to fight for your relationship and your family. But you can't force someone to feel in a such and such way. I think the best way to "fight" is to express how you feel, e.g. "I still love you and want you back". And then leave that person alone. If they decide to return to you, great. But nothing can really be done if your partner doesn't want to be with you anymore.

 

i have no problem with their friendship and going to him for advice. I had a problem with hundreds of text messages being deleted. I sensed her being sneaky with her phone, and it gave me a hunch. I ask her about it and she says she has been planning on moving out and he was source of advice. I do not feelshe owes me getting back together. i do feel she owes me an apology for handling our relationship in such a immature way. Ill get over the apology.

 

I texted that I am thankful for giving me 2 beautiful children and happy thanksgiving. she did not respond. so the writing is on the wall now.

[Gary Snyder]

Well, you guys did make a good effort to fix things awhile back when you went to counseling. Counselors are great, I recommend them all the time, they know a lot about relationships. Unfortunately, they don't know everything.....particularly about love.

 

It sounds like your wife fell out of love. You guys did make a good effort to fix it - domestic help from the husband is romantic, and the affection, and her getting to go out alone.

 

But if a person's love level drops too low, it can go past the point of no return. It sounds like that's what happened here. I'm sorry.

 

All you can do is find a replacement, a new girlfriend.

 

This breakup will hurt for awhile, then it will get better. The only real closure is time.

[Jambalaya421]

well, 3 days of NC and then had to discuss kids, she was being nice after 6 weeks of brutal silent treatment or NC. her being nice is a complete 180

 

we agreed on some simple fundamentals, she agreed to keep an open mind, and admitted to missing parts of us etc. She said some nice words. We communicated effectively for first time ever. She agreed. It was very nice. While the relationship was great for 5 years, we didnt need to communicate about any love issues, when it went sour, we would go to bed angry and wake up next day fine. never talked about stuff again. well we all know how long that takes to ruin a couple. In my case about 2 years. . next day while discussing kids stuff, she seemed indifferent again. I felt poorly, and decided I cannot keep these talks going and have to go NC so I can get over us. She said she understood and we can pick up conversation once im done "grieving" made me feel like garbage. Felt like I was being treated like an object. She wasnt being mean or rude, but zero sympathy. She insists shes not mad. Acts like completely moved on. which I suspected.

 

Felt like our conversation about open mind and missing parts of us was all fake. These comments were made during a discussion to give her better schedule for kids. I told her I cannot talk to her anymore, even about kids. Because just her being nice alone gives me false hope. the discussion about 6 months, open mind, missing us, all it did was give me hope. While she suggests me to grieve and move on.

 

SO after I set up 3rd party communicartion through mother and her agreeing to it, she said she understands. I send one last text saying, Conversation yesterday gave me hope for 6 months from now, and youre telling me to move on, obviously Im crazy to hold onto the idea of 6 months from now, so I made decision to cut communication for this reason.. I absolutely need NC for any chance of moving on. SHe responds...

 

"Please stop texting me messages like this. Its only hurting yourself more. Take a couple days and relax." hurting what? my chances? my heart? Im asking for NC for me to move on ????!!!

 

I think she is just confused and doesnt want to lose talking to me. we were on a great start to being real nice and communicating. but when Im reminded about moving on, not being in love anymore etc, I cannot continue these talks. She talks to me about when youre stronger and have grieved. I didnt have a headstart like she did. .she is an avoidant attachment style and will never say sorry or that she wants me back. it feels like shes hinting at lets keep this communication going and see where it takes us. She will never say she is confused and needs time.

 

She knows I mean NC because of my crazy heart.the day before while talking open mind and missing us, she knew she was playing with fire. SHe knows I love hard. Im not able to turn off love and especially cannot turn on hate. Another reason I feel she is open toreconciliation if all the pieces fall into place, but it must happen naturally, without psychobabble, and posturing.

 

if she just said im confused, need time, or fill in the blank here... I would agree. But she acts as if she has completely moved on. only to hint later chill out for a few days. I do know the lil bit of communication was a great start, but all it did was putme in limbo. I cant move on while talking to her.

[Carus]

Well you can move on whilst talking to her, and you will, it just takes time...sometimes a long time. It’s horrible to begin with so just be patient with yourself and your healing ok.

 

She’ll still come and go. Sometimes my xwife would go weeks before throwing out some crumbs whilst still in the weaning off stage until she finally wandered off....

 

The reality does seem to be creeping in for you now...As painful as that is, it’s a step forward*

 

Hang in there J*

 

Carus*

[Wiseman2]

Ok all you have to do then is find a way to arrange visitation/child support through whatever mediator/third party. She has moved on she's trying to co-parent.

SHe responds...

"Please stop texting me messages like this. Its only hurting yourself more. Take a couple days and relax."

[catfeeder]

You're bypassing long range thinking in favor of reacting to the slightest temperature change. That doesn't buy you anything but turmoil and further alienation from your wife. Have you sought legal advice to learn your best options for self protection even while preserving possible long range strategies?

 

You'll have plenty of time for dealing with the emotional aspects of this later. Focus on the practical stuff now, and this will buy you a firmer foundation for all else.

[Wiseman2]

She is 29, you're 42? Look your ex gf wants a nice life with a nice guy. She's been stuck in this since age 21, saddled down with kids? She wants to leave. She's been planning it for a while and appears to have a lot of help/support with that. Perhaps she wants a man her age and who respects her and wants a normal happy family. You have to pay child support one way or the other. You can go to courts for a visitation schedule.

[Jambalaya421]

She is 29, you're 42? Look your ex gf wants a nice life with a nice guy. She's been stuck in this since age 21, saddled down with kids? She wants to leave. She's been planning it for a while and appears to have a lot of help/support with that. Perhaps she wants a man her age and who respects her and wants a normal happy family. You have to pay child support one way or the other. You can go to courts for a visitation schedule.

 

woah. dude woah.

 

she message me this morning that she wishes to continue communication and slowly addressing our issues. She is clearly aware this gives me hope and is fine with giving me hope. we are only 5 weeks past a complicated breakup, that had a sincere reconciliation withlots of love displayed. we just didnt address the underlying issues. she bottles stuff up to never speak on again. she is warming up. Im not going to pressure anything. she knows she is playing with fire, and I know she isnt being selfish. she is warming up for right reasons.

[bluecastle]

Been following your thread, and sorry for the emotional turmoil.

 

What I see here is a woman who is really exhausted by being seen as an impressionable 20something whose emotions can be easily manipulated and a man who really wants her to go back to being that woman. There is more to it, of course, as there always is. But I can't help but think that's a lot of what's going on here. It's a very real impasse, so long as progress is only measured in her showing signs of warming, wanting to come back into the fold.

 

How I'd be measuring progress, in your shoes? It would be by my own reactions to things, not hers. Your text to her, for instance? That was manipulative, immature, and she called it out with grace. I know that's not your intention, but it follows the same pattern that got you here: the pushing her away because you're not able to sit with discomfort, while actually hoping that the pushing will pull her back in and offer comfort. That has not worked, and it is good that it hasn't worked, since it's disrespectful of someone's truth.

 

Take a zillion deep breaths and think big picture. You're married, with two kids, in a very fragile place. That is the big truth. Her personal truth is that she is right now taking the first breaths of air that she has been craving for a long, long time. She needs these breaths the way a plant needs sunlight, so let her take them. Your truth is that you want her back—own it, without needing it validated from her in a 24 to 72 hour window and without making drastic moves to get her to let go of her truth in favor of your own.

 

Emotional intelligence, much like actual intelligence, is the ability to hold contradictory thoughts and feelings in one place without reacting to either of them in a destructive or impulsive manner. Life, right now, is begging you to do that, to smarten up with the head and heart. I mean, would six months of discomfort really be the end of the world if, in the end, it allowed you guys to meet on the equal plane you can't meet on right now? I'd say that's a blink of an eye, and that sometimes there is no better way to show someone love and respect than to sit still while they wobble.

 

After all, any single way you cut this you're in for a tough ride over the next six months. Accept that, rather than fight it. Life is hard right now, and it's going to be hard for a bit. You are a grown up who can handle this. Show yourself that, first and foremost, as it will come in handy regardless of how this story ends. And by showing that to her? Well, it's far more likely to improve your chances than these sharp pivots every time she does something that makes you uncomfortable.

[SherrySher]

I am a woman and I can recall being in my early 20's.

I will tell you exactly how this is coming off to me so hopefully you will finally come to terms with it.

 

She doesn't the marriage anymore. She is trying her damndest to be nice and so things aren't a total war, and she is most likely being too nice as you keep getting the wrong idea.

But she is done.

 

It's not going to sort itself out, she doesn't need time, she's not confused.

She does not want this any longer.

 

She got together with you when she was relatively quite young. It was more than likely overwhelming for her (in some ways good and in some ways bad).

A marriage, babies, older husband...all coming at her and took all her youth away.

She did not experience clubbing or travelling with girlfriends or being carefree, dating men her own age etc.

And now she is somewhat resentful and is really trying hard to get some of that back now before it's too late and she herself becomes too old.

 

She now wants to experience life on her own.

The age difference is a big issue, there is no doubt about it. You were ready for serious commitment and settling down in life, she was not.

Allow her, her freedom now.

 

Don't get me wrong, I realize you are in a lot of emotional pain over it all. But at some point you must have known that dating or even marrying someone so much younger was one day going to blow up in your face.

At this point the best you can do is let her go. Heal the best way you can, for your children's sake as they still need you.

 

Get counselling if need be so you can get the emotional support losing your marriage.

Focus on being around friends and family for as much support from them as you can get too.

Allow yourself to grieve, but don't keep fooling yourself that she might change her mind. It's only hurting you more.

Do the best you can do in healing and getting through the end of your marriage.

 

I really do hope you find healing, OP.

[Jambalaya421]

she called me this morning and spilled her heart out. we agreed to get back together. and take things slow while living separately.

 

Thanks for all the positive vibes.

[bluecastle]

Congrats and good luck, sincerely.

 

A psychologist whose work I admire has a thing she says to couples at such moments. Something along the lines of: "Your relationship is over—do you want your next one to be with the same person or someone new?" Point being to think of these moments not as trying to go backwards, to what was, but forward, to something new.

 

Wishing you the best as you two discover new sides of each other.

[Jambalaya421]

Thank you. This is exactly why I feel like we are making progress. We both agreed to only looking forward, and new beginnings. and we have rest of our lives to get to the past if we ever have to.