What’s the best way to address my concerns with him?

[Annia]

I think it depends how often that happens and it is not our SO's job to reassure us constantly - again it's a spectrum. A close friend of mine went through a loooonngg phase where she was irrationally imagining that her husband didn't find her attractive anymore, that he found other women attractive, etc. I don't think she thought he was cheating. She wasn't cheating or checking out other guys so no it wasn't that kind of thing. Anyway she would drive him nuts when they were out and about questioning him, testing him, etc. He finally said to her that he had reached his limit and it really wasn't fair to subject him to her deep insecurities (yes she admitted it was on her, she knew, it was just out of control). So she went to therapy and they went to marriage counseling -she recognized that she was driving him away, she owned her insecurities, she owned her responsibility in working on it.

 

Some years later they separated and divorced. He never cheated on her or did anything remotely inappropriate (neither did she) -it was not related. I am sure that part of her insecurities was her feeling trapped, controlled, in a bad relationship but she never, ever thought it was his job to make her feel better when she had those irrational fears and vented. I mean once she realized how she was making bad choices. Certainly it reflected other issues in the marriage but it didn't excuse her behavior or justify burdening him with soothing her. She has lots of criticisms of how he treated her but this was not one of them.

 

I went through phases with ex boyfriends (not my husband after we got back together) where I'd want reassurance from them that we were right together even though there was nothing they could do for me to resolve my doubts -it was nothing they were doing or not doing. It wasn't fair of me to do that to the extent I did. Sure they did not walk away (one did but after several years but there were other issues) but I realize how wrong it was of me to subject those guys to my fears/doubts in the way I did. That was my job to deal with in a mature way and minimize how I expressed it to them. Again -not perfection -certainly minimal stuff like that should be fine -every couple is different but I could not disagree more that it's our partner's job to soothe us to the extent described. And the partner who is into that and likes that role most likely is not a healthy person available for a healthy relationship. I don't think that describes a perfect match at all for a healthy relationship. It can for an unhealthy one. We can agree to disagree.

 

I too had very intense needs that my partners reassured me and would think the worse if they didn't. I had to learn to keep these insecurities on check and learn to distinguish between a guy not being that into me/incompatible with me and my core insecurities and fears. When I learned what was the man's part and what was me and my insecurities' part, it became much easier not to be on the roller coaster of anxiety and to stop burdening relationships with my need for constant reassurance. I think it's important for the OP to try and make a distinction between what is caused by her insecurities and fears and what is caused by the behaviours of this guy per se. But either way, there's a core insecurity there that is leading her to extreme anxiety regardless if this is solely her insecurities or if in fact something is off with this guy/is incompatible with her. Ignoring that will only lead to more suffering either in this relationship or future relationships.

 

I don't know if the OP needs therapy or not, but self introspection about what's causing this and what's missing in her life in general and coming with a plan to manage this anxiety and to self-sooth herself can be very beneficial I think.

[boltnrun]

I feel like her constant "He didn't reply to my text or return my call, he's GHOSTING ME!!!" followed by "Oh, he DID call, we had a great conversation, everything's fine!!" then right to "He didn't acknowledge my 'I miss you' text, oh no, what's wrong????" sounds exhausting.

 

I can't imagine why anyone would want to conduct a relationship that way. I thought relationships were supposed to bring positivity into our lives, not turn them into a cauldron of fear and anxiety.

[katrina1980]

Maybe the issue here is the definition each person has of "manageable baggage". For me that's what most of us have, having been in previous relationships that left their mark and some insecurities we sometimes have. But it's the extent of this baggage and how we deal with it that makes into into manageable or not.

 

For example, let's assume a person was cheated in the past and has problems with abandonment. No one is saying that this person should never date again, but it's their responsibility to seek therapy if the damage is too much and/or to aknowledge this issue to themselves and before getting on a control freak rampage over their partner because of their past, find methods to self-sooth. "I'm feeling insecure because my partner has female friends and I have bad cheating experiences in the past BUT I know it's not my partner's role to pay for my past partner's wrongdoings and I'm NOT going to control, snoop and let these insecurities take over the relationship. If this I feel extreme anxiety and I'm unable to stop thinking about it, I'll go into therapy". This is not denying that the person has baggage or refraining forever from relationships "before being perfect" like it was implied in an exaggerated manner by Metal and Kat, it's instead taking responsibility for how we feel and how we act with it.

 

No, it's not a partner's role to constantly reassure and sooth a person's insecurities. It's not a partner's role either to be a therapist. Even if both are "messed up" and both feel the need that the partner soothes, this exchange of "putting up with each other's insecurities and fixing each other" doesn't make it healthier.

 

Of course that if a partner wants to assume that role and put up with a person's deep insecurity that it's not under control they are free to do it or if two people's "messed up" are "compatible" and they like it like that it's their choice, but it's also perfectly understandable if a partner doesn't want to put up with such unhealthy dynamics and with having to constantly reassure their partner or put up with destructive behaviour. Being in a relationship doesn't mean suddenly forgetting our boundaries nor does it mean that suddenly we're free of the responsibility to have our issues under control.

 

In the case of the OP no, it's not his role to walk on eggshells with her and reassuring her all the time. No, it doesn't make it romantic if he puts up with that for the sake of mantaning the relationship. However, it's her responsibility to either deal with the root causes of her anxiety and learn self soothing mechanisms or admit that maybe someone who triggers her insecurity so much, for whatever reason, might not be the right person for her given her issues or she might even come to the conclusion that he's in fact not as invested. Both of these options are perfectly fine and don't include burdening someone with her cycle of anxiety.

 

Annia, this was very well said, thanks for taking the time to post it. Makes a lot of sense!

 

That said, what I have been wondering lately is what is the definition of "healthy"?

 

I use it a lot to describe relationships as well as others. But in thinking about it further, I'm wondering if it's subjective.

 

A good friend of mine (I've posted about her and her bf before) have a relationship very similar to Metal's and her husband's.

 

The "melt down" Metal described early in their relationship is pretty much a standard thing with my friend and her bf.

 

My friend has tons of negative baggage (abuse, cheating) from previous relationships, and when she becomes extremely emotional (putting it mildly) about something he's done or even something she imagines he's done, he soothes her. It's more complicated than that but that's the gist of it.

 

I've come to the conclusion after almost six months that this dynamic works for them!

 

He's told me he loves her fire, her passion, her highly emotional nature. He is older and enjoys the role of "saviour" even though he did use that word.

 

In all other respects, and maybe even in that respect -- for them -- they have a great relationship! They talk, understand each other's natures, spend lots of time, meet each other's needs.

 

When she first started telling me about her anxieties, insecurities and her huge melt downs (including lots of f**k you's, and name calling) and her bf soothing her, I would think to myself, holy shyt, my friend is really messed up and there is something seriously wrong with him for tolerating it! That their relationship is so "unhealthy"!

 

Now I think, well that type of dynamic is not my cup of tea but apparently it "works" for them so heck who am I to judge, you know?

 

As dysfunctional as it sounds to me or others, she serves a need in him that another "calmer" less fiery, less emotional, less "dramatic" less "needy" woman would not.

 

He serves a need in her by remaining calm and soothing her. Talking it out with her. Win-win! For them, they are both very happy.

 

The problem I see with Lex's relationship is that it's seems off balance, the way she describes it..

 

He is fine, seems secure, happily enjoying the status quo, while Lex is an anxious, insecure nervous wreck!

 

I suspect she would love nothing more than to have her version of a melt down, and have him soothe her, but he's not into it, my guess is he would withdraw, and eventually reject her. Not understand it or want to deal.

 

So she holds back, tries to be "cool" - problem is this is not her true nature, at least not when it comes to him and their relationship. She cannot talk to him, be honest with him. It does not sound like she trusts him'

 

They don't jive! They don't meet each other's needs. Their respective natures are incompatible.

 

And for those reasons, I would deem their dynamic and relationship "unhealthy."

[katrina1980]

Wanted to add that prior to meeting her bf, my friend was very active on tinder and dated a ton of guys.

 

She juggled, multi-dated, even when she really only liked one.

 

All rejected her, ultimately deeming her overly dramatic and in some cases "psycho."

 

Which qualities her current bf embraces and tries to help her with.

 

No it's not his job per se, but he enjoys this role. And to her credit, she is in therapy but I don't think that will ever change her fiery emotional nature.

 

Hopefully and ideally it will help with her anxieties and insecurities, abandonment issues.

 

I suppose it's true what people say -- there really is someone for everyone.

[Batya33]

I think healthy is subjective but it's besides the point. Metalwin shared that her relationship is unhealthy and works for them. My response was simply that if I viewed my relationship as unhealthy I would not advise a poster who was looking for a healthy relationship that what she was sharing was not concerning because it worked that way in my relationship -which I described as unhealthy. According to Metalwin's subjective assessment her own relationship is unhealthy and her input to the OP was that these practices which remind her of her own interactions in her relationship seem ok to her. But, according to her being in an unhealthy relationship is OK. That might be so for her and I assumed the OP is seeking input on what we think would be a HEALTHY relationship, however subjective, not unhealthy.

[East4]

If he is truly fading away or has ghosted me, it shows how much of a POS coward he is.

post #4.

 

He is taking the p*ssy way out.

post #19.

 

Is anybody here of the opinion that the above is a respectful way to talk about one's SO? On a public forum for the entire world to see? Only because the person went fishing and did not reply quickly enough to a text.

 

If the gender were reversed and Lex were a man calling his girlfriend a POS and a coward, the community here would jump immediately at his throat and call him on his disrepect and verbal abuse. Yes, that's right, verbal abuse. But when the insults come from a woman they are glosssed over and excused "oh, she was just upset, he didn't reassure her enough, it is his fault"; "she is insecure, but her relationship will blossom under the rays of verbal abuse, if he's the right man, because mine did."

Do some posters realise that by normalising Lex's behavior, they are actually condoning behavior that lead to verbal abuse?

 

There's this discussion going on about what is an acceptable amount of "emotional bagage" to carry into relationship. Well, I'm not going to participate in a discussion about it, just saying that when one arrives at calling their boyfriend a POS and coward on an internet forum for the whole wide world to read, then the moment is ripe to call the shrink. Because doing this goes beyond the most relaxed standards for emotional bagage.

 

Not only the insulting words, but also look how quikly Lex escalated to diminish her boyfriend publicly. All in all 3 months from the first thread in November, where she was as equally insecure, but was able to write in respectful terms about the person she's been dating. Now we are 3 months downstream and she's escalted her choice of words to "POS and coward". Another 3 months and she would scream obsenity to her boyfriend's face. At this point she will be fully into abuse territory. Now she has the last opportunity to start working on her issues with concrete steps: therapy, internal retrospection and inventory of her emotional bagage.

 

Those of you who are assuring her that there's nothing wrong with her behavior, and that it is all-right to insult her boyfriend publicly, you are doing her a bad favor.

 

Last question: imagine her boyfriend read this thread, and the choice of words in his regards. He most probably would not like the public insults. Will you then still try to convince him that if he is the rigt guy he has to take the slights, love and reassure her after how she treated him publically? I do not think so, you wouldn't have the arrogance to go this far. You know, the only difference to the scenario above is that he does not know about this thread, all the rest is the same-the words were spoken, the crazy insecure thoughts with absolutely no grounding in reality were witnessed.

[Batya33]

Well. I think it's anonymous and she knows it - I doubt she would write that on Facebook where people would know her SO or husband. I have seen (but never participated in!!) people in my moms facebook groups hurl insults at their husbands/SOs which make me cringe and further horrible stereotypes, etc. I do not respond or participate. I also see it as a closed Facebook group and their need to vent I suppose although i would not choose to vent that way or express my feelings about my husband ever, even if I was very angry. And on here? No I would not call him those names -I can't imagine feeling the need to do that on a public forum but would I complain about something thoughtless he did ,etc? Maybe - I can't say I wouldn't just because it criticizes something he did/didn't do. To me this is a safe place were I to feel the need to do that. Not abusive because we don't know him, and she knows that, nor will she share it with him or say those things to him. I take what you're saying though.

[figureitout23]

Well. I think it's anonymous and she knows it - I doubt she would write that on Facebook where people would know her SO or husband. I have seen (but never participated in!!) people in my moms facebook groups hurl insults at their husbands/SOs which make me cringe and further horrible stereotypes, etc. I do not respond or participate. I also see it as a closed Facebook group and their need to vent I suppose although i would not choose to vent that way or express my feelings about my husband ever, even if I was very angry. And on here? No I would not call him those names -I can't imagine feeling the need to do that on a public forum but would I complain about something thoughtless he did ,etc? Maybe - I can't say I wouldn't just because it criticizes something he did/didn't do. To me this is a safe place were I to feel the need to do that. Not abusive because we don't know him, and she knows that, nor will she share it with him or say those things to him. I take what you're saying though.

 

Granted it’s anonymous Bat be honest you would call your child or husband a bad name on this board if they made you mad.

 

I’m going to assume of course not. Anonymous or not, language matters.

 

I also noticed the language, which is why I described her anxiety as a pendulum swing one minute she hates him the next he’s he best thing since sliced bread

 

Yes, we all get mad, weve all said things in the heat of the moment, I did in the last thread I created.

 

I don’t think it’s purposeful, I think it’s a defense mechanism, reject him and villainize him before he rejects me.

 

And I completely agree with East, while not devastatingly harmful, if someone goes into a relationship and their anxieties and or jealousy pushes their partner away and instead of doing some self reflection the man becomes a coward or a player or whatever the cycle will just keep repeating itself would it not?

[Batya33]

Granted it’s anonymous Bat be honest you would call your child or husband a bad name on this board if they made you mad.

 

I’m going to assume of course not. Anonymous or not, language matters.

 

I also noticed the language, which is why I described her anxiety as a pendulum swing one minute she hates him the next he’s he best thing since sliced bread

 

Yes, we all get mad, weve all said things in the heat of the moment, I did in the last thread I created.

 

I don’t think it’s purposeful, I think it’s a defense mechanism, reject him and villainize him before he rejects me.

 

And I completely agree with East, while not devastatingly harmful, if someone goes into a relationship and their anxieties and or jealousy pushes their partner away and instead of doing some self reflection the man becomes a coward or a player or whatever the cycle will just keep repeating itself would it not?

 

No not a bad name but certainly I might say my son "acted like a jerk" or a brat in a particular situation. I like your analysis of the pendulum swing -made me see what she wrote in a different light.

[RayRay63]

'But to update you all, he did in fact call me when he was on his way home on Saturday night, and talked to me for about an hour until he arrived home.

 

This long thread has some very good posts, but after reading/scanning it, I am wondering if anyone has given you some practical advice, from the cave male point of view about how to respond the next time he's going fishing.

 

Try this:

 

"Ok, have a great weekend, I'll get some stuff done here. If you catch some extra fish bring them over Sunday night and I'll cook them for you [insert naughty wink smiley]"

 

I'd turn up on Sunday even if I had to buy some fish to take to your place*.

 

(* If I was him.)

[figureitout23]

This long thread has some very good posts, but after reading/scanning it, I am wondering if anyone has given you some practical advice, from the cave male point of view about how to respond the next time he's going fishing.

 

Try this:

 

"Ok, have a great weekend, I'll get some stuff done here. If you catch some extra fish bring them over Sunday night and I'll cook them for you [insert naughty wink smiley]"

 

I'd turn up on Sunday even if I had to buy some fish to take to your place*.

 

(* If I was him.)

 

hah. very true ray!