Done with spouses son

[Annia]

I agree with what everyone is saying that she's enabling you but that your approach is not the right one. Just wanted to add that I lived with my mother until what I consider "too late" (his age or maybe a bit older) out of convenience for both sides. In my country it's almost a cultural thing that almost everyone lives with their parents until late and that's not frawned upon, BUT now I see that my mother was actually enabling me and that I should've have moved out sooner and should've have contributed more.

 

I worked and contributed but I know that I was the one getting the best part of the deal and I feel somehow bad for it. Which is why I turned my life around professionally and personally and took a career opportunity in another country.

 

No one kicked me out or pressured me to leave home, on the contrary, I just realised I needed to be totally independent like an adult should, no ifs no buts and I realised I felt I was not the independent non spoiled person I wanted to be. He needs to realise this too, but while he doesn't and specially while his mother doesn't, there's not much you can do unfortunately.

 

He's probably not happy about his situation either. I think a better approach would be showing both the advantages of independence and living independently and helping with tools (I'm not talking about money) to reach that goal and your wife should also deal with her childhood trauma so she doesn't project it on her son to compensate how she feels about having been kicked out at 19 by her parents. If you don't change your approach I'm afraid your relationship with her will suffer a lot negatively.

[ThatwasThen]

He cut ties with his father when he was 18, although he alleged is rebuilding the relationship. In one of my wifes more frustrated points she said to me that she done with her son and maybe it's the father's turn to keep him.

No learning disabilities, to the contrary, he's quite intelligent. He has just been in a pattern of underachievment since high school.

 

When we moved to this town, the son complained that it was too far from his work and school (both parttime) at the time (30 minute ride). He was 22 at the time. We gave him a 2 room suite with master bath and private entrance - you could call it an in law. He clasims he doesnt like it here, feels uncomfortable, cant wait to move out, etc. He moved out a couple times, only to return 8 to 10 months later. This last time we reduced his space to one room, although he still has the master bath and private entrance. Never once has he expressed any gratitude, and has never offered to help even though we're renovating the place all around him.

 

I ran into him in the kitchen at about 11 last night while up getting aspirin for myself. He of course was getting a plate of food (he waits til we've gone to bed to get food).

I asked him if he had thought about what I had told him about moving out and he just shrugged and said not really. So I gave him my offer - out by 4/30, help with his 1st months rent. I asked for feedback and he just stonewalled me so I lost it. I told him he was riding on my back while he took his time with college courses, and now has taken what amounts to a volunteer job (Americorp). He got upset and walked away but I kind of yelled after him.

His mom heard and came down, and it got heated. Not sure where we're at at this point since I slept on the couch.

 

SwampyYankee: By digging in your heals when your wife isn't on board with what you are proposing is going to (likely) cause you and your wife to lose your emotional connection to one another. I don't believe you want that (yet) so you are going to have to change your course and either see a lawyer and find out what your rights are as to severing assets etc and then your wife and her enabled son can find their own place or, you find a way to get your wife on board with what is in the son's best interests and that of your marriage.

 

If you can't ACCEPT the dynamic of your wife's codependent relationship with her son, then YOU would do well to get the help you need to learn to accept and be happy in your choice or leave and find someone whose children are all grown up and have learned the life skills to function on their own.

 

Would your wife and step son be open to family counselling?

Would you be open to getting your own in order to learn how to cope and be accepting of the situation?

 

If the answer to either of those questions is "no" then see that lawyer and get your affairs in order for a separation of assets and emotions.

 

She is never going to see your side of things and the more you push it, the more she will be blind to it.

 

Did you show her the link about dysfunctional helping?

Did you order the book on it so that you both could read it?

 

Just what have you done other then try to control while failing at it?

[Seraphim]

The thing is parents owe you squat the day you turn 18. Really. Anything else is kindness of their heart. But you have to watch you don’t teach your kids that the world comes for free because the world does not care.

[IAmFCA]

The thing is parents owe you squat the day you turn 18. Really. Anything else is kindness of their heart. But you have to watch you don’t teach your kids that the world comes for free because the world does not care.

 

Yes and we give love by trusting them to find their way, giving skills to manage each next step. You did this so well when your son was managing his benefits and applying for something (? I can't remember exactly?). It was anxious-making for you, but you held back. And look at the success story your son is!

 

I believe this family needs to go back to square one, and start over from a place of love. Too much communication has been punitive.

 

Love never requires disrespect. The family can convey love while respecting their own boundaries; right now, the mom is disrespecting herself in her effort to convey love, and so of course she is teaching disrespect. We are watching the sad spiral.

 

Love love love. Boundaries. Self respect. OP your anger isn't how you show respect for yourself. Its a loss of control; its a reflection of the degree to which you are overwhelmed.

 

Three adults, one house. Love. Practical needs. Emotional needs. Divide these out by person, separately. With love in your heart. Now. what does the solution set look like? How do you create space and boundaries within the house? Do you need to rent out the in law suite to help support yourselves? What are his needs? He has moved out before; there is a reason he is back and forth. What other solutions are there?

[reinventmyself]

I agree with everyone. You are in somewhat a double bind here. If what you are doing isn't working, then do something else.

It is true that he is essentially not costing you any money outside of the midnight food raids and a couple extra dollars on your water bill.

In any event, I wish I had a great answer for you. At this point, I would just back off. I don't what to tell you about the frustration that you are experiencing.

I would feel the same.

You are almost always bound to lose when coming between a mother and her son.

At least for now, step back, cool off and maybe things might becoming clearer.

[Seraphim]

The thing is this IS a lazy azz 27 YEAR OLD not 15.

[reinventmyself]

The thing is this IS a lazy azz 27 YEAR OLD not 15.

 

We all are in agreement on that.

But he's asking for help to navigate this and while still preserving his marriage.

[catfeeder]

To avoid operating on emotion alone, I'd consult with a local attorney to learn your options and potential steps for each option. I'd run the following plan by her or him:

 

I'd offer directly to the son, not the mother, to take him studio apt or boarding house shopping. If he finds anything affordable that he likes, I will pay the 1st month plus security on his lease (directly to the landlord), and I will pay 70% of the second month, 50% of the third, and so on.

 

I'd tell junior that I'm willing to shop with him for 2 weeks without pressure. If he doesn't find anything within that time, I will withdraw my offer but I will also evict him.

 

If his mother doesn't like this idea, she can move out with son and pay for a better deal.

[Seraphim]

We all are in agreement on that.

But he's asking for help to navigate this and while still preserving his marriage.

 

Get that but it sounds like mom would rather be divorced and have her manbaby at home. I don’t think he should have to fork over for her 27 year old. She should.

[reinventmyself]

Get that but it sounds like mom would rather be divorced and have her manbaby at home. I don’t think he should have to fork over for her 27 year old. She should.

 

agreed . . .

[boltnrun]

I have a friend somewhat like your wife. She has said often that she would be delighted if her adult children moved back home permanently. She said she would never require them to work or go to school and she'd be happy to clean up after them and bring them food and do their laundry.

 

Her husband feels differently. He (rightfully, IMO) said by doing that she would be setting them up for future failure because once they're gone they would have zero skills to live on their own. She told me she thinks his opinion is terribly mean and unfair and unloving toward their children.

 

They nearly divorced over this.

 

I do agree, however, that you need to get a handle on your angry outbursts. Yelling, shaming, whatever else negative you're doing is NOT going to work. Think of how you'd react if your boss came to you and started yelling and accusing you of things. You would immediately go on the defensive, wouldn't you? Even if what your boss was saying was true.

 

Tell your wife "Look, I do want to help him. Let's define what each of us thinks 'helping' him means". See how she reacts.

[itsallgrand]

So you are not shown respect, you are covering everyone financially, and you spent the night on the couch?!

I'm sorry, that's disgusting.

Your wife is playing little dictator. I agree with catfeeder. I'd consult a lawyer. I'd remain open to family mediation.

It helps no one though to continue to enable these two to live dysfunctionally off you.

[IAmFCA]

The thing is this IS a lazy azz 27 YEAR OLD not 15.

 

So what. We/OP/Mom can judge him all we want but its not going to help.

[IAmFCA]

Get that but it sounds like mom would rather be divorced and have her manbaby at home. I don’t think he should have to fork over for her 27 year old. She should.

 

As true as that may be, it puts money as the central issue. I don't think money is the point. I think the son has become a symbol of a power struggle.

 

The H is losing, despite the apparently correct stance he has taken. He is losing because he is misguided about his power in this situation. He needs to focus on his own choices. Make clear to the wife what he needs, and be prepared to adjust his behavior if she is unable to provide what he needs.

[Seraphim]

He may have no power with the son but I would not be namby pambying to this crap. She can pay.

[ThatwasThen]

He may have no power with the son but I would not be namby pambying to this crap. She can pay.

I agree...

Lordy: On edit: in order to play to her own insecurity about her son, she should pay her son's room and board if she insists on staying in the relationship and keeping her son stagnated in his immaturity.

 

Somehow though, I don't think that would satisfy the Op. It appears he just wants him gone so they can live their life as a couple in their own home. *shrugs* I think he feels he is being used for what he provides. (which I understand if that is the case)

[IAmFCA]

I agree...

Lordy: On edit: in order to play to her own insecurity about her son, she should pay her son's room and board if she insists on staying in the relationship and keeping her son stagnated in his immaturity.

 

Somehow though, I don't think that would satisfy the Op. It appears he just wants him gone so they can live their life as a couple in their own home. *shrugs* I think he feels he is being used for what he provides. (which I understand if that is the case)

 

If OP feels used that is his own doing. The son didn't just show up out of the blue.

 

My friends recently went through this. Wife gave H 3 months to get his adult and disabled daughter into a self sustaining situation. She too was ready to move out if her H didn't make it happen. Daughter was similarly surly and unappreciative and Wife did not want to live with her, nor should she have to.

 

OP is in same situation. Regrettably, his wife seems ready to lose the marriage - and maybe that's best. But I don't think it is what she actually wants. I think she is just afraid.of letting her son go. and she may need therapeutic help to get there. Letting him go forces her to face that she can't undo whatever crap parenting already happened. Forces her to face that what's done is done.

[ThatwasThen]

Whether or not it "is his own doing" isn't the point (fwiw.. I agree that it is his own doing if he chose to float HER financially) The point is that he MAY be feeling used (and rightly so) since his wife is not contributing to the finances and his step son is an irresponsible twit.

 

If she is "afraid of letting her son go" then she should be putting herself in a position to contribute to his 'safe harbor' IMO.

 

They all (IMO) would do well to get a family mediator in there to help them all to reach an agreeable COMPROMISE that they all can live with in harmony. If wifey and son are not agreeable to that, then Op... you may have to rethink the relationship or learn to accept that its her (and his) way and if you want to stay in the relationship then you make it your way (and be happy about it) as well.

[Seraphim]

Seriously, how old does someone have to to be independent in this generation? 45?

[IAmFCA]

Whether or not it "is his own doing" isn't the point (fwiw.. I agree that it is his own doing if he chose to float HER financially) The point is that he MAY be feeling used (and rightly so) since his wife is not contributing to the finances and his step son is an irresponsible twit.

 

If she is "afraid of letting her son go" then she should be putting herself in a position to contribute to his 'safe harbor' IMO.

 

They all (IMO) would do well to get a family mediator in there to help them all to reach an agreeable COMPROMISE that they all can live with in harmony. If wifey and son are not agreeable to that, then Op... you may have to rethink the relationship or learn to accept that its her (and his) way and if you want to stay in the relationship then you make it your way (and be happy about it) as well.

 

She SHOULD be doing lots of things but she isn't here and he can't control her (nor can any of us control anyone else).

 

What can HE do? It all gets down to accept things you can't change, or change what you can. If he draws a line in the sand "its the son or me" then maybe its him. And maybe that is okay. But there are other ways to solve this, starting from how he frames the situation and he chooses to behave. Tossing about his temper makes him just as much a 5 year old as everyone else.

[IAmFCA]

Seriously, how old does someone have to to be independent in this generation? 45?

 

Nobody is arguing this point.

[ThatwasThen]

She SHOULD be doing lots of things but she isn't here and he can't control her (nor can any of us control anyone else).

 

What can HE do? It all gets down to accept things you can't change, or change what you can. If he draws a line in the sand "its the son or me" then maybe its him. And maybe that is okay. But there are other ways to solve this, starting from how he frames the situation and he chooses to behave. Tossing about his temper makes him just as much a 5 year old as everyone else.

 

I don't disagree with any of that. However, I do not agree that he is acting like a five year old. The son however is acting like one. Op is acting like a man who is frustrated but doesn't know how to make things to the point that he can accept. He is here to get help with how to move forward while at the same time, getting his way for a change. That is where a mediator or a family therapist can maybe get them ALL on track, help Mrs. Op to stop enabling and get sonny boy out of the enabling relationship he has with his mother.

 

There comes a time when one cannot view things in an esoteric/the Universe will provide/mind over matter dynamic. I'm a realist and the Op is unable (or so it seems) to just change his perspective at this point.

 

It does not just come down to "accepting things you cannot change" It also comes down to having the wisdom to know what you can and what you cannot change... in that point, the op is lost so outside help in books, therapy, mediation (something other then what he is already doing, which is trying to control and failing at it, would be a good place to start.

[abitbroken]

Whether or not it "is his own doing" isn't the point (fwiw.. I agree that it is his own doing if he chose to float HER financially) The point is that he MAY be feeling used (and rightly so) since his wife is not contributing to the finances and his step son is an irresponsible twit.

 

If she is "afraid of letting her son go" then she should be putting herself in a position to contribute to his 'safe harbor' IMO.

 

They all (IMO) would do well to get a family mediator in there to help them all to reach an agreeable COMPROMISE that they all can live with in harmony. If wifey and son are not agreeable to that, then Op... you may have to rethink the relationship or learn to accept that its her (and his) way and if you want to stay in the relationship then you make it your way (and be happy about it) as well.

 

That's the thing - they won't go to mediator because they have a stigma about it -- well they can choose to get help because they are at an impasse or they can end up divorced. its one thing if the stepson was in a life changing accident and could not live independently. Honestly, i wonder if the wife can chat with her ex about taking the son on for awhile. the other son seems to be hacking it without being coddled by mommy. Maybe she can ship him off.

 

btw, it took a relative to move into a small condo to get rid of a son in his 30s. It worked.

[IAmFCA]

All the avenues the OP sees are blocked; the son and Mrs. OP seem unlikely to change their behavior and unblock these avenues.

 

I agree with virtually every post in this thread, because there are that many angles to the situation. For the OPs sanity and health, consulting a lawyer, a therapist, and his wife -- the last from a position of desiring help from her so that he might feel better - all of those conversations are good next steps.

 

Then make a plan. Change your perspective, create a legitimate lease agreement and charge market rent, identify ways to avoid interaction for a while... Whatever these meetings bring to mind will inform your plan.

 

Having a plan will reduce resentment and help you clarify your choices.

[catfeeder]

All the avenues the OP sees are blocked; the son and Mrs. OP seem unlikely to change their behavior and unblock these avenues.

 

Exactly why I'd bypass the wife to deal directly with the son. I'd put the incentive of an expensive subsidy on the table that expires. I'd offer to help son find a place, pay security and first month, then gradually reduce my subsidy each month, and even offer some pot, pans, linens--whatever, and the opportunity to visit and do his laundry at my place weekly. The offer not only expires in x weeks, but eviction will follow if the offer is not accepted and used.

 

It's a win/win OR a win/lose: son gets to pick.

 

Wife's opinion on the matter would be irrelevant when dealing with another adult.