Am I right to discourage my husbands participation?

[Jibralta]

The fellow I sing with I give him a Christmas card. He is married, but I address it to him and his wife.

 

Yes! That's the right thing to do.

 

People overstep their bounds ALL the time and pretend it's innocent... until it's not.

 

Don't forget, most cheaters remain in denial right up until 'it just happened.'

 

When I was on Facebook, I stopped being on messenger because you wouldn't believe how many MARRIED men would IM me, purportedly for friendly reasons. But who needs to talk every single day?!?!??

 

So, I got off the IM... and I friended their wives :D

[Starlight925]

I've been reading along and not saying anything, but honestly, from the very first post, I feel the same way as the OP.

 

A lot of married men are just these normal, faithful guys, but put in a situation with a bunch of women, and watch out. Sure, the husband is faithful, and wouldn't ever think of doing anything. But why put yourself in a situation where boundaries can be crossed? And as I read further, they already are being crossed, what with "innocent" messages and holiday cards.

 

This isn't about "women are vultures" and "men are these innocent creatures". This is just how this is. All it takes is one single, or unhappily married woman, or heck, one happily married but needing-her-ego-fed woman, and it's "what boundaries?"

 

I had lunch last year with my happily married HS boyfriend (we told our respective partners). His profession is in college sports, and he said the amount of women who sit super close to him at games, brushing their arms on his leg, or try and message him, is crazy. He has zero interest (he's just honestly not that type of guy).

 

So OP, I get how you feel, and I wouldn't like it either.

 

For me, this isn't about trust. Of course you trust him. It's them that you don't trust.

[Seraphim]

I don’t know see, I just don’t see it this way. My church singing partner we meet at his youth centre for our choir practice every single week. We are alone every single week in this building for practice. We are both married and happy. We have never dreamed of crossing any lines. The only time I ever get an email from him is one email a week telling me what songs we are practising . The only time I ever text him is when I can’t come to practice due to illness or some other reason . That way he doesn’t drive an hour in from the countryside and is three hours early for mass . It is just respect and courtesy to do that .

[Jibralta]

This isn't about "women are vultures" and "men are these innocent creatures". This is just how this is. All it takes is one single, or unhappily married woman, or heck, one happily married but needing-her-ego-fed woman, and it's "what boundaries?"

 

I also don't think it's about a 'flawed' relationship. People who are in great relationships cheat and/or are cheated on. Sometimes there's a moment of weakness. Sometimes there is a mistake.

[Starlight925]

I don’t know see, I just don’t see it this way. My church singing partner we meet at his youth centre for our choir practice every single week. We are alone every single week in this building for practice. We are both married and happy. We have never dreamed of crossing any lines. The only time I ever get an email from him is one email a week telling me what songs we are practising . The only time I ever text him is when I can’t come to practice due to illness or some other reason . That way he doesn’t drive an hour in from the countryside and is three hours early for mass . It is just respect and courtesy to do that .

 

That's just one person, with whom you share your choir practice.

 

This is 12-15 random women, meeting weekly, some of whom are already crossing boundaries, with a holiday card and a message. I see this differently. But we can agree to disagree here.

[Seraphim]

That's just one person, with whom you share your choir practice.

 

This is 12-15 random women, meeting weekly, some of whom are already crossing boundaries, with a holiday card and a message. I see this differently. But we can agree to disagree here.

 

Yes and we are completely alone together in an empty building every single week. Great opportunity, right? We are not in a public place full of people. But, still we would never think of it and we have been practising and singing together for five years .

[Batya33]

I would be annoyed if not upset at some woman sending my husband a card with a personal note.

 

Everyone has different rules on what they're comfortable with, obviously, but I wouldn't be cool with it.

 

I hope you and he do go out to dinner with his guy friend and his wife. As for the group thing, probably a good idea that it's done.

 

Me too and I trust my husband - but that's just inappropriate and tacky.

 

I have this kind of situation fairly regularly . I meet a dad and his son at an activity. My son befriends the son and the dad and I chat. Sometimes we then talk about getting our kids together for a playdate. In one case he gave me his number and our texts were solely about when to meet up at the activity again (it wasn't an activity we always went to) -but when he invited my family to his child's bday party I made sure to meet the wife (she never came) and to chat with her as much as possible. And, what I often do if I want to keep in touch for my son's sake is I will look up the wife on Facebook or linkedin and contact the wife with "our kids met at ___ and I thought it would be nice if they played together again". It's a little awkward messaging a stranger but that way there is no question. My husband exchanged info with a dad the other day because his son wants a playdate with ours. My husband asked me to set it up. I texted the dad and said "I'm also happy to text your wife if that would make it easier" (meaning the moms usually know the schedule better).

 

Sorry if too many examples. I think it never hurts to take a formal approach and involve the other spouse as much as possible especially with new people. You can always pull back if invited to do so (like the mom who told me to bring my son over to her house even though last minute she couldn't be there -her husband who I'd never met was there instead -and all was totally fine but again it was her call). If someone starts off with crossing boundaries I wouldn't like it at all.

[abitbroken]

Interesting you should suggest this. In fact it was one of the options we discussed. He agreed without hesitation. Shortly afterward he got a social media "hello" from one of the women, and a Christmas card from another. The card included a short handwritten note -- it wasn't intimate or suggestive but it was very friendly. I asked him a few questions about who they were & had they sat next to him (the card person had). That led to a discussion -- maybe somewhere between a discussion and an argument.

 

It concluded with him saying he was tired of talking about it and it wasn't worth the aggravation, so he wouldn't go to another gathering. I raised the possibility the next time they were due for one but he said no pretty firmly, he wouldn't attend again.

 

So you raised a stink and had an argument....vs him deciding logically what he was doing was not a good idea and deciding not to go or you expressing interest in meeting his classmates. So you chose an isolation tactic rather than an inclusion tactic. At some point, him not being able to have friends because you are uncomfortable around strangers or make big stinks of things will put him at the end of his rope - he will either get depressed because he cannot establish/maintain friendships or he will say enough is enough. Do you understand that?

[Wiseman2]

OK so you argued, defeated him and won. Why not invite this other friend and his wife over to socialize now that you successfully bulldozed over your husband's mini-class reunions.

 

At least make an attempt to extend the olive branch and "allow" him to keep some of his friends. You may want to reflect on picking your battles and why. You may have defeated him in this one but how is that a win for the marriage and goodwill and trust?

I asked him a few questions about who they were & had they sat next to him (the card person had).

 

That led to a discussion -- maybe somewhere between a discussion and an argument.

 

It concluded with him saying he was tired of talking about it and it wasn't worth the aggravation, so he wouldn't go to another gathering.

[boltnrun]

I would think you'd be happy. After all, you did get what you wanted...your husband will no longer attend lunch with the group that includes predatory women out to steal him away from you.

 

I am a middle-aged divorced single woman and not once have I thought "Wow, there's an attractive married man! I think I will try to lure him away from his wife of 30 years and get him for myself!"

[SherrySher]

Yes, but bolt, I doubt you'd be sending a married man a Christmas card and personal note without including his wife.

Not the best thing to do.

 

People can be in secure, that doesn't make them evil. Jude might not have gone about it in the best manner, but so be it.

 

As I was saying before, couples should talk to each other and people do have a right to what they're comfortable with or are not comfortable with.

What boundaries they accept as a couple and what they don't.

 

As for a woman not wanting to lure away a married man, lol..come on, you read these boards too. You know what people can be like. It's daily occurrence practically on these boards.

People don't seem to have the same respect for a married person as maybe it once was.

They want what they want and don't care who get's hurt.

[boltnrun]

Yes, but bolt, I doubt you'd be sending a married man a Christmas card and personal note without including his wife.

Not the best thing to do.

 

People can be in secure, that doesn't make them evil. Jude might not have gone about it in the best manner, but so be it.

 

As I was saying before, couples should talk to each other and people do have a right to what they're comfortable with or are not comfortable with.

What boundaries they accept as a couple and what they don't.

 

As for a woman not wanting to lure away a married man, lol..come on, you read these boards too. You know what people can be like. It's daily occurrence practically on these boards.

People don't seem to have the same respect for a married person as maybe it once was.

They want what they want and don't care who get's hurt.

 

I didn't say no women anywhere ever try to lure away married men. It's just overkill to presume that's the case in every situation.

 

But, like I said, OP got what she wanted.

[SherrySher]

Might be overkill, however this woman in particular seemed to think he was nice enough to send a card without including his wife, that is at the very least, questionable.

[boltnrun]

Might be overkill, however this woman in particular seemed to think he was nice enough to send a card without including his wife, that is at the very least, questionable.

 

I do wonder if she sent a card to the other gentleman who goes to these lunches.

[SherrySher]

Working the room, lol

 

Just teasing

[Jude23]

So OP, I get how you feel, and I wouldn't like it either.

 

For me, this isn't about trust. Of course you trust him. It's them that you don't trust.

 

Yes, that's exactly it. And not all of them, but it only takes one.

[Jude23]

I also don't think it's about a 'flawed' relationship. People who are in great relationships cheat and/or are cheated on. Sometimes there's a moment of weakness. Sometimes there is a mistake.

 

That's how I feel. We have an excellent relationship. My thought is why take a chance on jeopardizing it with a moment's slip. I made the point before, but I want to reiterate that I think my husband is naive when it comes to women's attentions. He could easily confuse friendliness with flirting, in either direction. There's a path that could lead to trouble before he realized it.

[Jude23]

So you raised a stink and had an argument....vs him deciding logically what he was doing was not a good idea and deciding not to go or you expressing interest in meeting his classmates. So you chose an isolation tactic rather than an inclusion tactic. At some point, him not being able to have friends because you are uncomfortable around strangers or make big stinks of things will put him at the end of his rope - he will either get depressed because he cannot establish/maintain friendships or he will say enough is enough. Do you understand that?

 

I would handle it differently if I could do it over. I'm quite sure he's not going to say "enough", but I do worry about depression or resentment.

And I'm not trying to keep him from having friends. In fact I've encouraged him to meet with the male friend who got him into this, but just not with all the women.

[Jude23]

OK so you argued, defeated him and won. Why not invite this other friend and his wife over to socialize now that you successfully bulldozed over your husband's mini-class reunions.

 

At least make an attempt to extend the olive branch and "allow" him to keep some of his friends. You may want to reflect on picking your battles and why. You may have defeated him in this one but how is that a win for the marriage and goodwill and trust?

 

He's welcome to all the friends he wants -- I'd encourage it. But I feel a lot better if they're men, or if women, if I were there. That's where we went wrong, I think.

[Jude23]

I would think you'd be happy. After all, you did get what you wanted...your husband will no longer attend lunch with the group that includes predatory women out to steal him away from you.

 

I am a middle-aged divorced single woman and not once have I thought "Wow, there's an attractive married man! I think I will try to lure him away from his wife of 30 years and get him for myself!"

 

I'm not happy. I am relieved that he's not attending the group, but I'm not happy about how either of us handled it.

 

We have a resolution but it's not a satisfying one, for either of us I'm sure. I guess that's a big part of the reason I posted here -- I wanted to see if my reaction was reasonable. At this point I'm still not really sure.

 

I have myself seen women who DO seek companionship. I'm not accusing them of targeting a married man, but perhaps of an attraction developing over time. I've seen it happen to other people.

[ThatwasThen]

but perhaps of an attraction developing over time. I've seen it happen to other people.

That likely wouldn't happen if you compromised and went with him to socialize with the group.

 

It likely wouldn't happen if he didn't have any one on one time with any of them which would have been a good mutually respected boundary. If he understands that spending one on one time with another woman is inappropriate when in a relationship then he'd certainly understand and accept the boundary as being appropriate and easy to maintain.

 

He's not spending one on one time with these ladies so the chance of him bonding with any one of them is rather low. So low in fact that if you trusted him (like you say you do) you'd not have to worry about not trusting the women.

 

The venue is not conducive to having an emotional (or otherwise) affair develope.

[Batya33]

I think it’s beneficial for women and men to be friends including beneficial to a marriage. I think if opposite sex then the person should be supportive of the marriage and the spouse or SO should have the opportunity to meet the person. I do not want my husband to come whenever I meet a male friend for lunch. I’m sensitive to group dynamics and if someone else comes who’s not as close with the friend it can impede conversation and create awkwardness. Come to think of it my male supervisor gave me his family’s holiday card addressed just to me. I gave him our family holiday card addressed just to him. We each left the card in each other’s offices. Never occurred to me to include spouses. I don’t even know her name. Same in reverse. But I wouldn’t like if a woman sent my husband a holiday card just for him and addressed to him at our home.

[ThatwasThen]

My husband wouldn't want to come to a lunch with male work friends that I have but the thing is, a lunch would include a bunch of us (male and female work buds) and we have a lot of fun. One-on-one lunches (with males) I saved for potential new clients I was grooming to become on board with my services. There was no ongoing one on one interaction with them once they came on board. I showed my appreciation in practical closing gifts. (I was a realtor).

[abitbroken]

He's welcome to all the friends he wants -- I'd encourage it. But I feel a lot better if they're men, or if women, if I were there. That's where we went wrong, I think.

 

But he isn't able to. He can't have normal - not close friedships but "situational" friendships with women he grew up with...and i dare say if he established a friendship with a man, you would not want him not to be friends if he was spending too much time with the man or you didn't like the man because he partied. you also said you didn't like to be around strangers, so its impossible for him to go out 'as a couple" with these women and their husbands. I do not phone or write my male classmates - but we all sort of keep in touch on social media -- comment on how everyone's kids are adorable and what not.

 

What if this wasn't a mini-reunion but a networking group and he was in a female-dominated field. Say he was a nurse or an elementary school teacher (in my life, i found it was more balanced between male/female teachers in high school, but grade school was very female-leaning) and half the other women had come up the ranks with him or worked at the same school or department. Would you have blown up at him? I think you severely need to work on your insecurity. Men (or women for that matter) who are out to cheat, they are going to do it. Guys who work in a workplace that is almost exclusively male (let's say they are pipefitters or something that you see very few women taking up) and socialize 100% with men find a way to cheat when they want to. The mere presence of women is not a sign that they will.

 

BTW, even couples who decide that they should not be alone one on one with a member of the opposite sex who is not a relative or their spouse would be fine with group settings like this.

 

you have to give someone a little bit of rope. If they prove untrustworthy, that is another matter.... but you have to let them - he could have come to a natural conclusion down the road that the meetups are boring, he could continue because he wants to talk to this other guy and that's the way to do it, could have brought more men in, etc. Remember your husband was not born yesterday and has the ability to recognize when things cross his boundaries.

[Jibralta]

I would handle it differently if I could do it over. I'm quite sure he's not going to say "enough", but I do worry about depression or resentment.

And I'm not trying to keep him from having friends. In fact I've encouraged him to meet with the male friend who got him into this, but just not with all the women.

 

Well, what's done is done. I'm sure he will get over it, just give it some time. I'm sure he is probably more forgiving than some of the people on this board!

 

In the future, you know better.